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Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

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Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by Donald Roberdeau on Wed 03 Sep 2014, 6:59 pm

(QUOTE)


Salon Attempts to Paint Avowed Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as a “Right Winger”


By: Leon H. Wolf (Diary)
July 24th, 2014 at 09:00 PM


Via Salon today http://www.salon.com/2014/07/24/texas_gun_nuts_scary_ritual_how_hatred_of_a_president_turned_profane/ comes one of the most truly bizarre pieces of revisionist history I have ever seen, even within the context of articles appearing at Salon. The basic outline of the piece is as follows:


1. Dallas in 1963 was full of crazy right-wingers;
2. These people had guns;
3. John F. Kennedy was shot in Dallas in 1963;
4. Barack Obama likewise has many right-wingers who oppose him; therefore
5. It’s only a matter of time before one of them shoots him.


The baseless appeal to sensationalism and emotionalism is the primary (and usually only) tool in the gun control advocate’s toolbox. To that end, I have to admit that this is well played on Salon’s part; every reasonable person of all political stripes in America is legitimately terrified at the prospect of President Joe Biden. The problem (as always, when dealing with a gun control advocate) is that reason, logic and history demand a completely opposite conclusion. Let us grant for just a moment that Dallas in 1963 was full of various fringe right-leaning groups that were well armed. I don’t know; it might or might not be true. I’m not a Dallas historian and it’s not really relevant to the point of this post. The point is that factually, John F. Kennedy was killed by an avowed communist because of that communist’s belief that Kennedy was too tough on commies. These are not facts that are in reasonable dispute. Even if you are one of the grassy knoll people you have to concede Lee Harvey Oswald’s place as at least one of the shooters which means that, without a doubt, Kennedy was killed by left-wing extremists not right-wing extremists. In an especially delicious bit of irony, while trying to somehow pin Kennedy’s death on the anti-communists, they omit mentioning that seven months before assassinating Kennedy, Oswald attempted to assassinate one of the most prominent anti-communists in Dallas, General Edwin Walker.


What’s that you say, Salon mentioned General Walker? So they did – only, they mentioned him as one of the right wing zealots who posed a threat to Kennedy when he visited:


Over the next three years the simmer burst into a full boil as various luminaries of the John Birch Society such as millionaire oil man H.L. Hunt and the anti-communist fanatic Gen. Edwin Walker, a zealot so far to the right that he even believed Eisenhower was a communist, fanned the flames of anti-Kennedy hatred.


Walker was at the center of the plot against Adlai Stephenson to which Mrs. Doyle referred in her letter. He had exhorted his followers (some of whom belonged to group that unironically called itself the “National Indignation Convention”) to confront the U.N. ambassador when he came to town and they did, hitting him with signs and spitting in his face before he could be rescued by the police.


Truly, the mind boggles.


All of this of course misses the point, which is that if gun control could be expected to be effective anywhere it would be in the zone of a Presidential visit. No one at all can legally carry a gun within the range of secret service clearance for a Presidential visit. Which is to say nothing of the absurdity of supposing that someone who was willing and committed enough to assassinate the President – an endeavor which history shows is almost certain to end in the death or indefinite incarceration of the assassin – would be somehow deterred by the threat of a citation for failure to obtain the proper carry permits.


This entire article is a nonsensical mishmash of broken logical connections, slander, and outright historical ignorance. But this is what passes for argument these days among the circle of committed gun control enthusiasts, as it does among the left in general. Thankfully, at least on the issue of guns. Americans seem to have retained their basic common sense.


(END QUOTE)


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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by Guest on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 1:18 am

Salon posts a ton of articles that imply that those who believe in conspiracies are nuts. It's especially irritating because they also post articles about various right wing conspiracies thus contradicting themselves.

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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by Guest on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 4:01 am

Don,

   While Oswald was an "avowed" Left Wing extremist the evidence does not in my view support that. He did say he was a Marxist repeatedly, however if he was a true Marxist why did he never actually join a Communist or Marxist group? While in Russia he never joins the Communist party, he never joins a Communist group while in the US, just claims he is a member and his alias is the President of the club. The only groups he attempted to join were right wing groups (Cuban Revolutionary Council). The groups he actually was a member of were diametrically opposing. 

As a youth he joins the Socialist Youth League but also the Civil Air Patrol. As a young adult he joins the the Marines, and subsequently he claims membership but never joins the FPCC. He calls himself a Marxist but never joins any Marxist group. He receives Communist literature but never attends regular meetings. I would not conclusively state that Oswald was left or right wing, but I would contend the evidence remains contradictory.

Additionally, the official version of the Walker attempt are based upon Commission opinion, not conclusively upon the evidence. The HSCA pointed out many flaws in the assertion that Oswald fired those shots. If Oswald could not hit a near stationary target with all the time in the world, I would contend he feasibly would not have better luck on a moving target at greater distance without practice.

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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by greg parker on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 8:09 am

Carmine Savastano wrote:Don,

   While Oswald was an "avowed" Left Wing extremist the evidence does not in my view support that. He did say he was a Marxist repeatedly, however if he was a true Marxist why did he never actually join a Communist or Marxist group? While in Russia he never joins the Communist party, he never joins a Communist group while in the US, just claims he is a member and his alias is the President of the club. The only groups he attempted to join were right wing groups (Cuban Revolutionary Council). The groups he actually was a member of were diametrically opposing. 

As a youth he joins the Socialist Youth League but also the Civil Air Patrol. As a young adult he joins the the Marines, and subsequently he claims membership but never joins the FPCC. He calls himself a Marxist but never joins any Marxist group. He receives Communist literature but never attends regular meetings. I would not conclusively state that Oswald was left or right wing, but I would contend the evidence remains contradictory.

Additionally, the official version of the Walker attempt are based upon Commission opinion, not conclusively upon the evidence. The HSCA pointed out many flaws in the assertion that Oswald fired those shots. If Oswald could not hit a near stationary target with all the time in the world, I would contend he feasibly would not have better luck on a moving target at greater distance without practice.
Carmine,

As you suggest, Oswald's actions don't support any definitive conclusion. 

In answer to why he never joined any political or worker's organizations in the USSR - I submit such actions may have placed his US citizenship in jeopardy and if that is true, his failure to join such organizations may be prima facie evidence that he always intended to return to the US.  

While the WC claimed Hidell was an Oswald alias - I contend that this is a perversion of the meaning of "alias". Oswald never presented himself as being "Hidell"... if one is to believe the NO cops, he claimed Hidell was another person altogether.

He never actually joined the YSL - merely made an inquiry about joining. I'll stand corrected on this, but I don't think he ever formally joined the CAP, either.

If you were plotting an assassination in 1963 and wanted to throw as many potential false sponsors into the mix as possible, using a real (or pretend) Marxist with some ties also to Rightists and white Russians, in the heart of ultra conservative Dallas was perfect. You have a smorgasbord of potentialities.... foreign communists, domestic communists, rightists, white Russians, Big Oil...    

------------------

The sum total of Oswald's record of joining anything was one or two extra-curricular school clubs, the Marines and a hunter's club in Minsk.  That's it.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by Guest on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 8:58 am

Greg,

       You are correct about the Socialist Youth League. However he was photographed at a CAP event with David Ferrie and others, so he did participate in some activities if he indeed was not a member. Perhaps member in all but name. 

The Hidell alias is listed some of the official evidence and associated with Oswald. I do not claim the associations are conclusive but the official associations using the FPCC rely on Oswald fabricating these associations, not being an actual member of a group espousing his professed beliefs. I just wish to highlight their many conflicting claims. I appreciate the info on the Socialist Youth League and will look into the CAP files if I can find them.

The Commission states Oswald was a member of the CAP at 15 years in New Orleans according to his mother's testimony. So I would think it feasible, it also would represent his first possible contacts with Ferrie. 

WC Appendix 13, p.679

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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by greg parker on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 10:18 am

Carmine,

the conflicts are there, no doubt about that and i was nit-picking to some extent with the CAP thing - distinguishing between going to a few meetings and formally becoming a member.

On Hidell, what I am trying to get across is that there is zero evidence that he ever represented himself as being Hidell. He allegedly told NOPD that Hidell was the head of the local FPCC and he was in touch with him by phone - that by any definition I'm aware of, does not constitute the use of an alias.

The Hidell Id in the wallet in Dallas was almost certainly planted.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by Guest on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 10:52 am

Greg,

          I agree with your distinction, my use of term alias is because of the official claims that he placed Hidell's name on the P.O. Box, the wallet, and based on some in Russia who asserted they called him Alek. Perhaps a fictional name of his possible creation would be more appropriate. However, I am glad we agree on most points that labeling him a left or right wing anything is premature without more evidence.

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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by M.Ellis on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 11:14 am

I just read the article  - twice. Tedium interrupted by partisan nonsense. But tedium and nonsense are what SALON does. 

544 Camp Street -  before anyone can conclude what LHO's sincere political beliefs were - the mysteries of that address need to be unraveled IMO.

Last night, I was reading something about Winston Scott. An astonishing assertion was made in it. According to the  writer, LHO produced a photo of his New Orleans/FPCC leaflet arrest to the Cuban embassy in Mexico City. He was purportedly trying to use the arrest as a communist credential. 

544 Camp Street may have even popped up in Mexico City.

I will find the link and post it.

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKscottW.htm

----
"To establish his identity Oswald showed Duran her his passport, correspondence with the American Communist Party, his membership card for the Fair Play for Cuba Committee, a newspaper clipping about his activities in New Orleans and a photograph of Oswald in custody, accompanied by two police officers."


Last edited by M.Ellis on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 3:02 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

Post by greg parker on Thu 04 Sep 2014, 11:24 am

Carmine Savastano wrote:Greg,

          I agree with your distinction, my use of term alias is because of the official claims that he placed Hidell's name on the P.O. Box, the wallet, and based on some in Russia who asserted they called him Alek. Perhaps a fictional name of his possible creation would be more appropriate. However, I am glad we agree on most points that labeling him a left or right wing anything is premature without more evidence.
Carmine,

The NO box had Marina and Hidell listed as those (apart from himself) who could collect mail from that box. Again, here it is a reference to a distinct OTHER individual - not himself. 

The order forms for the weapons were in the name of Hidell -- but the evidence that Oswald was the one who ordered those weapons in that name is dubious. If he did - and he picked up those weapons flashing Hidell ID, then that would be a bona fide example of his use of Hidell as an alias. As it is, they could not even show that "Hidell" was listed as someone who could pick mail up because the relevant part of the application for had been destroyed outside of PO regs. 

But yes, we do agree on that important point - the evidence, based solely on association, is insufficient to draw any conclusions about his politics.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Salon Paints Avowed Left Wing Communist Lee Harvey Oswald as Right Wing

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