Choose Search Type
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Today at 2:39 pm by barto

» Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt1
Today at 11:58 am by barto

» JFK Assassination
Today at 7:15 am by jack ferguson

» Lifton on his "new evidence"
Today at 4:47 am by steely dan

» The Eighth Naval District
Today at 1:11 am by Hasan Yusuf

» friends student exchange programs
Yesterday at 12:01 pm by greg parker

» Richard Bernarbei
Tue 06 Dec 2016, 11:29 pm by barto

» The Facts about Connally's Wounds
Tue 06 Dec 2016, 11:23 am by Paul Francisco Paso

» ROKC Lampoon
Tue 06 Dec 2016, 10:12 am by Stan Dane

Log in

I forgot my password

Social bookmarking

Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Furl  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

RSS feeds


Yahoo! 
MSN 
AOL 
Netvibes 
Bloglines 


Affiliates
free forum
 



The Cox Tops

View previous topic View next topic Go down

The Cox Tops

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 01 Oct 2014, 8:47 pm

From an old thread called NEELY STREET QUESTIONS:
Robert Howard, on 28 Aug 2014 - 1:22 PM, said: wrote:Several pages back on this thread there was mention of the "portion of Cox's boxtop" in LHO's possession. Did anyone dig further into this? In that era there were two Cox Department stores, one in Waco that went bankrupt in 1995
The other was in Fort Worth and according to Wikipedia, [granted not the most reliable source] it later merged with W. C. Stripling & Sons
fortwortharchitecture.com, writes on their website
W.C. Stripling Middle School
2100 Clover Lane - 1927; 1955; 1958; 1989 (CFW)
This school was constructed in 1927 as W.S. Stripling High School to serve the growing population of the Arlington Heights area and to replace the 1922 Arlington Heights High School. The building was designed by Wiley G. Clarkson and constructed by K.H. Muse.  Clarkson also designed for the same school bond package, William James Middle School in the Polytechnic area of the city.  The plans for the buildings were identical, but Clarkson put different facades on the two schools.  The school was named after W.C. Stripling, founder of Stripling's Department Store.  The Stripling building is a 3 story "H" shaped plan and has some Georgian Revival details.  At the projecting entry, inscriptions of "Knowledge", "Citizenship", and "Character" appear above each arched opening.  The campus was landscaped as a part of the Works Progress Administration by Hare and Hare of St. Louis.  The school was converted to a junior high school in 1937, when the current Arlington Heights High School opened.  With the West Side continually growing, eight classrooms, designed by Jim D. Vowell were added in 1955 and twelve more were added in 1958, thereby extending the wings of the building to the west. 


I thought that was worth a post, especially since Oswald went to school there. It might not mean much, but it might at some point in the future. 
Cox's box top could be a signal, clue, or key. Hell lets take a stab and see where it goes.

Could be something in its history or location?>

LERNER SHOPS (originally The Scott-Harrold Building) - 601 Houston - 1895, 1936, 1946; demolished September 1996. This building was probably one of the largest structures built in Fort Worth in 1895. It spanned across the entire block along 5th Street between Main and Houston. Entrances were on all three streets. Originally, the building had a brick facade with cast iron and wood columns, and was constructed for The Fair Department Store. In 1936, R.E. Cox & Co. moved in and remodeled the store by placing stucco over the brick. The stucco was scored with joints to appear like stone. In 1946, Cox's moved out and The Lerner Shops moved in and remodeled the building again --

"Over at 7th and Throckmorton, Cox's had the first 5 or 6 floors of the FW Club Bldg"  ~ (?Fort Worth Club Building)
http://www.fortwortharchitecture.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=1149

"The Fort Worth Club is a multi use Class B office building located between the corners of Taylor and Throckmorton on 7th Street. This beautiful historic building houses The Fort Worth Club, which is a 5 Star Platinum level city club, The Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Fort Worth, Inc. and many distinguished oil and gas firms, law firms, banks and more. Since 1885, The Fort Worth Club has held a unique place in the heart of Fort Worth. Originally developed to give business leaders an attentive and elegant environment to discuss city commerce and politics,..."
http://www.dfwi.org/what-we-offer/real-estate/office/35-Fort-Worth-Club-

The overall height of the building is 12 stories. Fakes & Co. were the original tenants of the 6 story base of the building up until 1946, when R.E. Cox & Co. occupied the space until 1955.
www.fortwortharchitecture.com/fwclub.htm

http://hometownbyhandlebar.com/?p=8940

Whatever the city leaders were thinking, West Berry was a relic in the new urban landscape. Stripling & Cox's department store symbolized the stagnation when it closed in the mid-1990s after more than 40 years as West Berry's retail anchor.
"That was the bottoming-out point," Barr said. "When Cox's moved out, there weren't any anchors left."
But some good may have come from Cox's demise.
"That decision sounded an alarm for leaders of the surrounding neighborhoods," Costa said. "They finally came to see that the time had come to do something about the decline of Berry Street because the street was no longer a great asset for the neighborhood or for the city."
(Pictures show "Cox's" sign at this location pre dating the merger)
http://www.magarchive.tcu.edu/articles/2007-03-CV.asp?issueid=200703

Front view of the Stripling and Cox store at 6370 Camp Bowie.
This store was originally R.E. Cox and Co., better known as Cox's.
In the early 1980s, Cox's and a rival department store known as Stripling's
were both doing poorly and I believe were nearly out of business.
They decided to join forces and became Stripling and Cox, which gave them
at least another 25 years of life. They closed permanently not too long after
this picture was taken on June 6, 2007. Photo by John Cirillo.
http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/stripling.htm

http://www.fortworthyesterday.com/pics/Howell-beach-n-belknap-1978-web.jpg


It is worth noting that the FBI failed to interview a single co-worker or employer of LEE Oswald's tall-nice-looking mother when she worked for Goldrings, Kreigers, and Holmes Dept Stores in New Orleans and for Clyde Campbell's Men's Store, the City of Ft. Worth, Paul's Shoe Store, Family Publications, and Cox's Department Store in Ft. Worth from 1956 through 1961. The FBI never obtained any employment information, w-2 forms, payroll records, employment applications or anything else from any of her employers. The FBI simply didn't want to interview anyone or gather records..."
http://harveyandlee.net/Marines/Marines.html


Cox Box Tops ran in the family!! 

Basically in Dec 1958 MARGUERITE got hit in the nose "by a box of candy" in COX'S? (Said Oswald and Pic) Or FAIR RIDGLEA Dept. Store? As employee of candy counter ran by King Candy Company at Fair Ridglea she filed a claim for workers comp.
Joh Pic said it was Downtown, which does not sound like The Fair Ridglea thus she must have worked the candy counter at Cox's in Oct '58... Who's telling the truth?
Did she work at Cox's in '58???

This is part that could use some nailing down:
When and where did MO work for Cox's? How do we know?
Where did Cox's move into a new location in '55-'56 after moving from the FWClub Building? Where was it in 1958?

Is there a Cox's Candy Conspiracy, I don't know, but definetely some areas to explore further. (sarcasm mine)

http://books.google.com/books?id=I1VBUrmaMPkC&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=marguerite+oswald+cox&source=bl&ots=M-eHdKBGhx&sig=Gqt5PxICWXOxoLwtbHIyAauXmJY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DMorVJuSL4epogT1qYHQDA&ved=0CGgQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=marguerite%20oswald%20cox&f=false

The Fair at Ridglea circa 1958
https://www.flickr.com/photos/kamaaina56/2870778269/

http://books.google.com/books?id=Gcf19iJnAk4C&pg=PT174&lpg=PT174&dq=fair+ridglea+department+store+fort+worth&source=bl&ots=I-AXBbEiHH&sig=avkLJn4n4jbjCddsT-tTof-5ujQ&hl=en&sa=X&ei=6c8rVKGiGYLMoATTvYGICQ&ved=0CEIQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=fair%20ridglea%20department%20store%20fort%20worth&f=false

Ed. Ledoux

Posts : 415
Join date : 2012-01-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 01 Oct 2014, 8:58 pm

Stanley Nyberg, who was Mrs. Oswald's
supervisor at the King Candy Company in Fort Worth in 1958, said, "She
came here with her children from New York and had good references" (95).
("Children" -- plural -- this after John was married and Robert had
joined the Marines.)

Any More on Stanley???

Ed. Ledoux

Posts : 415
Join date : 2012-01-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 01 Oct 2014, 9:40 pm

Info on Mr Saner Davis? Any relatives?

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2240.pdf

I think this boils down to the Stripling school vs the West side Ridglea school attendance.

Funny the good doctor recommends getting her head checked alright:
http://research.archives.gov/description/7564850

Ed. Ledoux

Posts : 415
Join date : 2012-01-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 01 Oct 2014, 10:56 pm

Unrelated, but since we're talking about "Cox," there's a Roland A. Cox who was a reserve police officer on duty outside the Dallas Police Station on Nov 24, 1963. When questioned after the Oswald shooting, he says he didn't see Ruby enter but was told or he heard that Ruby entered with a camera. Cox said he worked for Ruby eight or nine years earlier. His testimony seemed fishy to me.

Stan Dane

Posts : 2329
Join date : 2013-09-03
Age : 63

View user profile https://prayermanleeharveyoswald.blogspot.com/

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Oct 2014, 11:08 pm

Ed, Marguerite was employed at Cox's between Nov '49 and May the following year.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=145250

She worked for King Candy Co at Fair Ridglea at the time she had the accident.

Lee never attended Stripling, despite what Robert said and despite what Jack White's friend Kudlaty said. Robert did attend there and he may have simply presumed his brother followed suit. If the FBI pulled any records from Stripling, they were Robert's.

My opinion, fwiw: where the box top came from is not relevant. It's purpose is what matters.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Thu 02 Oct 2014, 6:54 am

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Stanley Nyberg, who was Mrs. Oswald's
supervisor at the King Candy Company in Fort Worth in 1958, said, "She
came here with her children from New York and had good references" (95).
("Children" -- plural -- this after John was married and Robert had
joined the Marines.)

Any More on Stanley???
This is the source used by Armstrong:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/17768/rec/2

As can be seen, it is a newspaper interview with Nyberg - and he was relying on memory, not actual business records.

At some stage, Marguerite probably told Nyberg she had been living in New York. In his memory, she must have come direct from there. As for the "children" comment - Armstrong is not much of a fact checker. Robert left active duty in 1955 and was living in Fort Worth. Nyberg therefore probably assumed he had moved there with his mother and brother. 

The Cox box top is important, Ed. It leads us to who was playing Oswald like a violin. The other stuff from Armstrong just does my head in (to borrow a phrase from an ex-member)

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 05 Oct 2014, 7:53 pm

Regardless I found it strange Robert, John and Lee all saying that MO worked at Cox's in 1958. Especially given her termination there and the events surrounding it. 
The Cox's Department store on Camp Bowie is in Ridglea, a Fort Worth suburb.
That store along with others like Fair were part of the Ridglea shopping area.

Mrs. Hopkins stated she knew MO worked at Cox's but at the 7th and Throckmorton address in early '50's
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20057/105-57d.pdf

Interestingly her employment based on the statement of Clara Nagel is that Marguerite Oswald began work at Cox's on Nov 22nd 1949.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2213.pdf

And then on Nov 22nd 1963 we find Ossie carrying a Cox's Box Top?

Ed. Ledoux

Posts : 415
Join date : 2012-01-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Tue 07 Oct 2014, 9:24 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Regardless I found it strange Robert, John and Lee all saying that MO worked at Cox's in 1958. Especially given her termination there and the events surrounding it. 
The Cox's Department store on Camp Bowie is in Ridglea, a Fort Worth suburb.
That store along with others like Fair were part of the Ridglea shopping area.

Mrs. Hopkins stated she knew MO worked at Cox's but at the 7th and Throckmorton address in early '50's
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20057/105-57d.pdf

Interestingly her employment based on the statement of Clara Nagel is that Marguerite Oswald began work at Cox's on Nov 22nd 1949.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2213.pdf

And then on Nov 22nd 1963 we find Ossie carrying a Cox's Box Top?
Ed, you're right. As far as coincidences go, this one is up there.

Here's Myers' take on the box top:



Another home made container, apparently. Not.

I kinda like the theory that crops up now and again that it was half a box top, not a complete one, for matching with a contact at the theater.

But I have a twist. Like some of his other pocket litter, I think it was planted - in this particular case - to LOOK like it was meant for the above.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Thu 09 Oct 2014, 6:51 pm

But I have a twist. Like some of his other pocket litter, I think it was planted - in this particular case - to LOOK like it was meant for the above.
To clarify -- to look like it was used in the theater scenario, not ammo holder scenario...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Guest on Thu 23 Oct 2014, 11:10 am

Ed and Greg,

I am hoping you can help me by offering your opinions of whether
Oswald was lugging around on his person, the Cox's box top and the 1960, American Bakery pay stub in the amount of $66.17 attributed to Mr. Jackson, formerly of 214 Neely, as this seems highly unlikely to me. I am defending my earlier criticism of the uninformed, disturbed, and combative Rob Caprio.:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,11445.msg347911.html#msg347911




FBI's Bookout reported that items, including the Cox's box top and the pay stub were found on Oswald at the time of his arrest, but he offers no direct attribution from a specific DPD officer or report of a DPD officer. But, the same can accurately be said about Hidell I.D. items allegedly found in an arrest wallet.:
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1317&relPageId=208
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1317&relPageId=209

However, this FBI report (also linked in Greg's Ed Forum post, below) states that the pay stub was found during a search of 214 Neely  St.
I am proceeding on an assumption that both the Cox's box top and the Jackson pay stub were not
found on Oswald's person and the pay stub was found at 214 Neely St. and it will never be known
for sure where either the Cox's box top or the pay stub were in fact, found by DPD or the FBI.
 
No Cox's box top or pay stub is listed in the contents of Oswald's wallet. The inventory list in the image
above does not include a wallet or the live revolver cartridges allegedly recovered near the same time as the unwrinkled bus transfer, which is included in the above inventory image.
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0320a.htm
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0320b.htm
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wr/html/WCReport_0321a.htm


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17593&p=223349
Greg Parker - Posted 10 April 2011 -
.....
This doc states that a pay stub was found during a search of the Neely St apartment:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57760&relPageId=182

Was this just an error of the author (did he actually mean to say one was found on Oswald?), or was this a second pay stub?
I know on the surface, there seems to be a lot of evidence to say the O's did live there... but how thin is it?
This pay stub.......



In hunting for more info, I found a statement of a woman who claims to have supervised Marguerite Oswald in the early 1950's at the "Literary Guild" booth at Cox's department store at 7th and Throckmorton.
www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10672&relPageId=584


Mrs. Lowell Hopkins' statement even includes an observation dear to the very busy loyer and her
likeminded faith based followers of child prodigy, Scott Kaiser.:

...she could  not say that she recognized the picture as being Mrs. Oswald.....

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 29 Oct 2014, 7:13 pm

Read what we found out, then please re-ask question.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17593&page=5

Baylor has two stubs. One found on Lee and another found in search of Neely.
I sent these to James Jackson and had him identify them. He said it was his signature on them. The FBI never showed James the stubs...
Thanks, Ed

Ed. Ledoux

Posts : 415
Join date : 2012-01-04

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Wed 29 Oct 2014, 7:30 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Read what we found out, then please re-ask question.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=17593&page=5

Baylor has two stubs. One found on Lee and another found in search of Neely.
I sent these to James Jackson and had him identify them. He said it was his signature on them. The FBI never showed James the stubs...
Thanks, Ed
Thanks for the reminder, Ed.

That thread (because of your work on it) may well be in the top 5 or 10 at the Ed forum. That was some great work with those interviews. We got a further insight into how the FBI operated and how little evidence the Bug needs to convict!

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Guest on Thu 30 Oct 2014, 7:05 am

The link posted  in the Ed Forum post is dead, but I found the
folder here.: http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/43274/rec/22





I suspect very strongly that no more than one American Bakery check was recovered as evidence from either Neely St. or from Oswald's person, if even one was recovered.

This is included in:
Commission Document 230 - FBI Shanahan Report of 24 Dec 1963 re: Oswald (Nearly three months before Griffin's meme.)
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10633&relPageId=6

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by greg parker on Thu 30 Oct 2014, 9:11 am

Thanks Tom.

If I am reading it correctly, the Shanahan Report starts out talking about one stub, but switches to mentioning both in the last para.

My original thought back then was that it (the payslip) was found at the apartment and then merely said to have been found on Oswald (or in his apartment) as a way of tying him to Neely St. This would probably still be my position on it. It is a known CIA (and probably FBI) method of "backstopping" a false residence. Such crude methods are usually only meant to stand up a short period of time on the premise that in most ops, no one is going to be inquiring weeks/months/years later. 

If this was backstopping, it was not the only instance in this case. It is a matter of no small bewilderment to me that any of it stood up this long.

Other examples of suspected backstopping - the Hidell cards, the scraps of paper from two other address "proving" residence, the bus ticket, the Mexican material... etc.

As far as the Neely apartment goes... the owner is on record as saying he went there every time an apartment was vacated to clean up... (or at least he said he did after the tenant prior to Oswald...)

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3448
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: The Cox Tops

Post by Sponsored content Today at 2:59 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum