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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:38 pm

Colin Crow
 
Mrs. RANDLE. I never talked to Lee.
 
She never talked to him........
 
It seems she did know him from sight if we can believe this......
 
Mr. BALL. Did you ever see him arrive with Lee?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you recall on a Thursday night, November 21 that you saw Lee get out of Wesley's car?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. About what time of night was it?
Mrs. RANDLE. About 5:20, I believe, 5:15 or 5:25 something like that.
Mr. BALL. Where were you when you saw him?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the grocery store.
Mr. BALL. Did you talk to Wesley about the fact that he had brought Lee home on this night?
Mrs. RANDLE. No, sir.
 
She saw him get out of Frazier's car (presumably at the Paine's) on her way to the grocery store. Apparently it was not significant enough to bother mentioning later to her brother.
 
Within a few seconds Ball extracts the following contradiction......
 
Mr. BALL. Well, did you mention to Wesley that night or did you ask Wesley that night how Lee happened to come home on Thursday?
Mrs. RANDLE. I might have asked him.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember anything about curtain rods?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. What do you remember about that?
Mrs. RANDLE. He had told Wesley--
Mr. BALL. Tell me what Wesley told you.
Mrs. RANDLE. What Wesley told me. That Lee had rode home with him to get some curtain rods from Mrs. Paine to fix up his apartment.
Mr. BALL. When did Wesley tell you that?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, that afternoon I suppose I would have had to ask him, he wouldn't have just told me.
Mr. BALL. You mean that night?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. After he came home?
Mrs. RANDLE. I was on my way to the store. So I probably asked him when I got back what he was doing riding home with him on Thursday afternoon.
Mr. BALL. You think that was the time that Wesley told you-
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir; after I got back home.
Mr. BALL. That Lee had come home to get some curtain rods?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, I am sure he told me that.

I didn't....... went to I think I did...... to I'm sure I did. Amazing turn around. Can you imagine what a crossexamining defence lawyer could do to her?


As an aside. Randle claims to be on her way to go to the grocery store on Thursday evening. Where was she going to (or coming from) in her car about 3pm Friday? More groceries? Where/how did she contact Frazier? We know they had contact after the shooting and before arriving at the Paine's because she knew he was at the hospital. Do you think Oswald was mentioned in that conversation?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:40 pm

Mick Purdy

My god everyone was either off to the grocery store or on their way home from it.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:52 pm

Lee Farley
 
As requested by Mick.  The LMR segment where she described seeing LHO as a "frightening experience" is from her Secret Service interview conducted on November 28th, 1963:
 

 

 

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:53 pm

Terry Martin
 
Interesting, at the top of the statement it says "William Everett Randle is not acquainted with Lee Harvey Oswald".
 
I recall elsewhere the opposite being said. Not that he knew Oswlad well but he was acquainted with him.

Weird.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:55 pm

Mick Purdy

Terry, you're right. It's written up in the SS report and the FBI paperwork. The two documents conflict one another
Could be a simple typo or misunderstanding. Or not. And Greg is spot on, Where was Randle earlier in the day.

Come to think of it, why did he get home so late to Irving Dallas if he caught a plane at 5.00pm from Austin, wasn't it a only a 3-4 hour drive. Plane trip shouldn't have taken too long.There's stuff here not adding up in my mind.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 5:57 pm

Greg Parker
 
Mick, the Secret Service never asked him the simple question: what time did you leave home that morning?

And yes, the flight back makes no sense. He claims his wife was already home when he got there. I'm pretty sure she the reports indicate a much later time for her trip home from City Hall.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:04 pm

Greg Parker
 
 
 
What this report lacks: the question of when he left Irving.
 
A more complete description – i.e. height and weight. He is just shy of 30 – the age everyone gave as the "suspect" Was he also the right height and weight?
No follow up interview with Berry Caster (that I can find). No questions on if Berry Caster and Warren Caster were related.
No check on his name with flights between Austin and Dallas. No questions on the time discrepancy re his flight home and his wife's release by DPD.

Something of potential importance - "he commented to someone at the motel that Oswald had been living in the neighborhood..." You know -- as opposed to living in an Oak Cliff boarding house and only visiting on weekends - except for that weekend of course -- I mean - he couldn't have been there on Thursday night because he was actually living there - that would be ridiculous...

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:10 pm

Mick Purdy
 
 
 

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:11 pm

Greg Parker

This report says he flew out of Austin at 11:05pm. Much better timing wise -- 5pm gets him home too early for Linnie... and I also just realised a 5pm flight out would mean that he left Austin before he even arrived!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:12 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

This report says he flew out of Austin at 11:05pm. Much better timing wise -- 5pm gets him home too early for Linnie... and I also just realised a 5pm flight out would mean that he left Austin before he even arrived!

Steely Dan

What if William Whaley had a brother who was a pilot?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:13 pm

Mick Purdy

If I were investigating these two I'd be checking a hell of a lot more than what's been written up in this report.

I agree, would've checked what time he and his partner left for Austin,what time they arrived and what there movements were when they got there. I smell a rat!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:15 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

This report says he flew out of Austin at 11:05pm. Much better timing wise -- 5pm gets him home too early for Linnie... and I also just realised a 5pm flight out would mean that he left Austin before he even arrived!

Steely Dan

What if William Whaley had a brother who was a pilot?

Greg Parker

He did, but he flew the number 23 route - though you could probaly get a shopper's transfer at Alburquiokee and catch the 23 at the crossroads of Harveyandlee and Meandlee or Elmer & Fudd. Short landing strips, but Whaley's brother has a knack for extending them a few blocks.    

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:21 pm

Mick Purdy
 
This from LMR on the 22/11/63:
 
 

And now this by 28/11/63 SS report...my the story just got better and better:
 

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:22 pm

Mick Purdy

FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION
 
Date 11/23/63
 
LINNIE MAE RANDLE, 2439 West Fifth Street, Irving, Texas, phone Blackburn 3-8965, was interviewed at the Dallas Police Department.
 
RANDLE advised that she is the sister of BUELL WESLEY FRAZIER, who is employed by the Texas School Book Depository and resides at her residence, stated that she met LEE HARVEY OSWALD through her brother, and has known OSWALD and his wife for about six weeks. RANDLE advised that OSWALD's wife is MARINA OSWALD, who resides at 2515 W. Fifth, Irving, Texas, and that OSWALD spends the weekends with his wife at the above mentioned address. Her brother, WESLEY FRAZIER, customarily drives LEE HARVEY OSWALD to 2515 West Fifth, Irving, Texas, on Friday night, and takes him back to work on Monday morning. He stated that OSWALD is also employed at the Texas School Book Depository.
 
On the night of November 21, 1963, she observed FRAZIER letting LEE HARVEY OSWALD out of FRAZIER's car at 2515 West Fifth. Subsequently, she asked FRAZIER why OSWALD was visiting his wife on Thursday evening, as he usually did not visit her until Friday evening each week. FRAZIER told her that OSWALD claimed he was visiting his wife the night of November 21, 1963, because he is fixing up his apartment and RUTH PAINE, with whom his wife resides at 2515 West Fifth, Irving, was going to give him some curtain rods.
 
RANDLE stated that about 7:15 a.m., November 22, 1963, she looked out of a window of her residence and observed LEE HARVEY OSWALD walking up her driveway and saw him put a long brown package, approximately 3 feet by 6 inches, in the back seat area of WESLEY FRAZIER's 1954 black Chevrolet four door automobile. Thereafter, she observed OSWALD walk to the front, or entrance area, of her residence where he waited for FRAZIER to come out of the house and give him a ride to work.
 
RANDLE stated while at the Dallas Police Department on the evening of November 22, 1963, officers of the Dallas Police Department had exhibited to her some brown package paper, however she had not been able to positively identify it as being identical with the above-mentioned brown package, due to the fact she had only observed the brown package from her residence window at a distance.
 
on 11/22/63 at Dallas, Texas File # DL 89-43
 
by Special Agent JAMES W. BOOKHOUT/cah/tjd

Date dictated 11/23/63

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:24 pm

Vinny

Now if only the Dallas DA will reopen the investigation and get Frazier to testify under oath.Would be quite interesting to hear what he would have to say.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 6:25 pm

Mick Purdy
 
Lest there be any doubt Linnie Mae Randle helped the investigating authorities in every conceivable way to frame Oswald for the the assassination. The devil is in the detail of the official documents and her WC testimony.
 
We need look no further than the affidavits, the FBI reports the WC testimony and this atrociously written report from the S.S.
 


Linnie Mae, her husband William and her brother Wes IMO played a role, and important one, in getting the authorities the press and the general public to believe Oswald carried a large package holding a rifle into the TSBD on that Friday morning.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:01 pm

Hasan Yusuf
 
He did, but he flew the number 23 route - though you could probaly get a shopper's transfer at Alburquiokee and catch the 23 at the crossroads of Harveyandlee and Meandlee or Elmer & Fudd. Short landing strips, but Whaley's brother has a knack for extending them a few blocks.

LOL!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:03 pm

Paul Francisco Paso
 
Is anyone thinking Frazier might be the guy brought the Carcano into the TSBD? You'd need a BS story to get away with it and this car ride/curtains story stinks of BS.

I am not sure if Oswald caught a lift with Buell or not that morning but it is obvious Frazier and his sister are trying to hide something by telling fibs. Someone had to take the Carcano into the TSBD so why not Buell? He also had access to be able to make a paper bag if there ever was one.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:04 pm

Stan Dane

I'm with you Paul. I've thought Frazier's mannerisms and overall pistol-whipped demeanor in the more recent interviews may be because he knows Oswald was on the front steps with him and he's been told to keep his mouth shut or else and his conscience is bothering him. But maybe it goes much deeper than that. Did he even give Oswald a ride to work that day? Is his involvement in this thing greater than we imagined, e.g., bringing in the Carcano, etc.?

This whole thing looks dirty and he's a part of it.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:05 pm

Paul Francisco Paso

Its dirty alright, Stan. Oswald was set up and Frazier was in a position to do just that to him. He saw Oswald on the steps but said nothing. He might have been coerced or he may have just played along. Who fucking knows.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:06 pm

Greg Parker
 
One more thing... Frazier was brought down from Huntsville at around the time that a Dallas motorcade was given the go-ahead and the venue decided. At that point, the route was always going to take JFK past the book depository. There is also the discrepancy about how Frazier got the job. He claimed he got it through an Irving employment agency. Linnie claimed she suggested it to him. Not aware of any evidence the TSBD even used any employment agencies, but I believe they may have used the TEC In any case, I have long suspected that Wes was placed in there as part of the overall plan.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:08 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Paul Francisco Paso
 
Is anyone thinking Frazier might be the guy brought the Carcano into the TSBD? You'd need a BS story to get away with it and this car ride/curtains story stinks of BS.

I am not sure if Oswald caught a lift with Buell or not that morning but it is obvious Frazier and his sister are trying to hide something by telling fibs. Someone had to take the Carcano into the TSBD so why not Buell? He also had access to be able to make a paper bag if there ever was one.

Mick Purdy

I'm not sure whether you caught this or not Paul or Stan, but thats part of my contention. From the opening page of this post:

I say Frazier created the lift into work with a package along with the aid of LMR and Ruth Paine. I have said all along this was done to frame Oswald and take away suspicion from Wes taking in the throwdown MC rifle:

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.
I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.
I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.
I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.
I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.
The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.

From the HSCA interview of Shields

SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.

To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.
The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………

An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)
 
What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.
Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. 

What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.
Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:15 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Paul Francisco Paso

Its dirty alright, Stan. Oswald was set up and Frazier was in a position to do just that to him. He saw Oswald on the steps but said nothing. He might have been coerced or he may have just played along. Who fucking knows.

Mick Purdy

I believe you guys are spot on......
Terry I believe your first line is spot on.
This from one of my earlier posts:

Linnie Mae and Frazier lied!

I don't really know why but I'm convinced they did. My conjecture is that Wes did do something that morning, such as take in an MC rifle to the TSBD as a throwdown and needed to cover his movements early in the morning.

I think it's safe to say if you subscribe to the theory I'm contending here, that Frazier, Linnie Mae and Bill Randle were involved in a gigantic fabrication of the mornings events, then those lies were surely perpetuated to hide things which they did, and were involved in, and that they did not want made public.

The evolving story of the diminishing dimensions of the sack by Randle IMO is yet another clue to that deceit.

Frazier's case is particularly interesting, because it is completely possible that as a 19 year old, he may have been coerced or even blackmailed, to do things which at the time he may not have had the ability to say no to, or even the maturity to fully comprehend.

Things which he may have regretted later and over time even became remorseful of.

Of course this is only conjecture on my part. The theory continues!

You see, I happen to believe that Oswald is Prayerman and that Wes did see him on those steps. If what is contended here is true, in my mind that explains an awful lot about Wes's behaviour for the past 50 years.

Stan Dane

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:18 pm

Paul Francisco Paso

I've always seen Frazier as some poor dumb guy, Mick. I am starting to see him differently now. Maybe it's no accident that these 2 guys met, like Greg suggests.

Stan Dane

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 14 Aug 2016, 8:20 pm

Mick Purdy

I suddenly feel the urge to know a lot more of the whereabouts of three people on 22/11/63. William Randle, Berry Caster, and Marvin Randle.

Frazier gets picked up and arrested at Irving Professional Center by the DPD at about 6.30 (?). What are his movements before this? I mean really, the guy has no real story and is never asked for his movements post assassination. Sure he's picked up at the Irving location but that's not to say he was there for the entire duration. He left work anytime between 1.00 and 2.00, and that's after according to his version after eating lunch in the basement after watching JFK get his brains blown out.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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