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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:46 am

Mick Purdy

"And went directly home."



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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:49 am

Mick Purdy

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2

@25.05 BWF:  I didn't go directly home.........

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:50 am

Mick Purdy

Frazier's WC testimony:

Mr. BALL - At any time before you went home, did you hear anybody ask for Lee?

Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I don't believe they did, because they, you know, like one man showed us, we had to give proper identification and after we passed him he told us to walk on then to the next man, and we, you know, put down proper information where he could be found if they wanted to see you and talk to you any more, and then we went on up to a little bit more to the front entrance more toward Mr. Shelley's office there with another man and stood there for a little while and told us all that was there could go ahead and go home.

Mr. BALL - Then you went on home?

Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Representative FORD - Did all this occur after you had finished your lunch?

Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; it did.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:52 am

Mick Purdy

http://www.c-span.org/video/?287933-101/kennedy-assassination-buell-wesley-frazier-part-2
 
@ 12-36
G.M. Did you see Lee Oswald at this time after the assassination?
BWF. Um (long pause) No.

Listen through until : 15-40

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:53 am

Mick Purdy

Credit:
Stan Dane.


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:55 am

Mick Purdy

Consider, Shanklin's report has Givens observing Lee at 7.45 am in the Domino Room reading a paper.

Given’s floated between the Houston Nth warehouse and the Elm street warehouse as required.

Givens is witnessed by Shields at around 8.00 am down at the Houston Nth warehouse, (where he hollers to Wes "where’s your rider") .

IMO this shows us that Givens had spotted Lee in the Domino room (Elm St) at 7.45 am reading a newspaper, and then went down to the Nth Houston warehouse to catch up with Shields.

IMO at around 8.00 am or thereabouts Wes Frazier was observed on his own (HSCA Shields) walking through the parking lot by both Shields and Givens.

Givens IMO independently observed Oswald inside the Elm St Building at 7.45 am and witnessed Frazier at around 8.00-8.05 am in the car park walking on his own to the rear dock door of the Elm St. Building.

This almost certainly suggests in an extremely persuasive way that Wes was indeed on his own in that car park and that Lee was already inside the building, reading the paper in the Domino Room.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:56 am

Mick Purdy

Hasan:
Vetrans Administration Connections

As Mick has discussed in the Buell Wesley Frazier: Where’s your rider thread at this forum, there is good reason to believe that it was Randle (not Frazier) who drove Oswald to work on the morning of the assassination. According to the index of the Dallas Municipal Archives, information relevant to the Veterans Administration is contained within Box 8, Folder 2. However, the folder is nowhere to be found.
 
Mick:

I am swayed to believe that it was either Linnie Mae or Willie Randle who drove Oswald to work that day. I believe Shanklin's report of Givens sighting of Lee in the Domino room at around 7.45am is credible. That suggests BWF and Lee were not together that morning, IMO. Add Shields HSCA interview into the mix and there are serious doubts about BWF's version of events of that morning regarding Oswald's movements.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:58 am

Ed Ledoux

Mick you are the man!
This is my niggle.
We had a neighbor whom claimed it was Willie whom gave a ride to Lee.
We have Shields hearing Wes say he dropped off Lee.

What is the strongest evidence between the two? Wes saying he dropped him off could be joking around. As Lee was never in the car that morning but got a ride with Willie on his way to Austin. We need to zero in on which claim holds water.

Interesting that Willie is not mentioned by Wes or Linnie as having been there that morning eating breakfast. If Wes was running late it would be natural for Lee to ask Willie if he could drop him off. Maybe Wes was still in the shower when Lee arrived to see where Wes was?Then hopped in with Willie "Bill" Randle and the counter top crew.

Greg has said "Randle had left that morning bound for Austin with a fellow employee of his brother's firm named Berry Castor. Maybe Roberts mistook Castor for Oswald?"

Did Berry look like Oswald? How did Berry get to the Randle's? Or did Willie have to go to Shady Grove and pick up Berry? If the later then it was not Berry with Willie.

This is not speculation on either side, we have reports of both. I would inclined to think that, like the misunderstanding of Linnie Mae working with Oswald, it was a misunderstanding and was Willie's brother (inlaw) had given a ride to Lee.

Of course Willie isn't talking, but I'd be happy to share his number with anyone, telemarketers, political action committees, pranksters. Just kiddin!

You had your chance to talk Bill. Now we are doing the talking. Counter that. Of course Bill is on record saying that he had not known and never seen Lee Oswald before, only seeing him on the TV.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:02 am

Mick Purdy

Greg:

And also contrary to belief borne of ignorance or bias, Prayer Man has no equivalence with Elvis sightings, UFOs, Chemtrails or fake moon landings. To suggest that - as you have, makes you no better than boneheads whose bias and ignorance drives those fringe conspiracy beliefs. To compare it for instance, with Badge Man - is just the absolute pits in misinformation. BM is truly no more than a Rorschach Test. PM on the other hand, is a real live person. More than that, it is a real live person, who, by a process of elimination, is either a total stranger from the streets OR Lee Harvey Oswald. No ifs no buts - it's one or the other. The BS that it could be a female is just that - BS to confuse and misdirect coming from a Lone Nutter in Duncan MacRae and picked up by a truly sick individual who goes under the name of "Albert Doyle".

Whilst we still have BWF with us is it possible to approach him again and have him take another look at the Darnell frame and ask him to identify the man standing to his right a mere few feet away a top of the stairs immediately following one of the biggest events in Buell's life. To identify the man stood next to him, the man whom appears to be conversing with him, just after JFK's brains were blown out - that man!

BWF is the guy whom can settle this once and for all.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:03 am

Greg Parker

Greg has said "Randle had left that morning bound for Austin with a fellow employee of his brother's firm named Berry Castor. Maybe Roberts mistook Castor for Oswald?"

Did Berry look like Oswald? How did Berry get to the Randle's? Or did Willie have to go to Shady Grove and pick up Berry?
If the later then it was not Berry with Willie.
---------------------

Good point, Ed.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:05 am

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

Greg has said "Randle had left that morning bound for Austin with a fellow employee of his brother's firm named Berry Castor. Maybe Roberts mistook Castor for Oswald?"

Did Berry look like Oswald? How did Berry get to the Randle's? Or did Willie have to go to Shady Grove and pick up Berry?
If the later then it was not Berry with Willie.
---------------------

Good point, Ed.

Mick Purdy

A great point!
It's my niggle too.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:06 am

Greg Parker

    A great point!
    It's my niggle too.

Consider me niggledly chastened!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:06 am

Barto

Frazier and Randle in the corridors of the DPD from the Cooper film:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVqDPboCZD0&feature=youtu.be

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:09 am

Mick Purdy

From JFK Foreign Policy Topic.

Jake said:

He's Oswald in terms of the logic of it being no other possible person, in terms of the physical stature and appearance of the figure in the image, and in terms of his own alibi. It is Oswald.

It is him. Murphy, Greg, Stan and Barto IMO have proved this beyond any doubt. The pic is the bonus, the icing.

Even on the tiny low resolution frame, I can tell it's Lee a top of the steps. I have no problems identifying Frazier in the same frame stood just mere feet away from PM, just as I have no issues whatsoever with identifying Oswald standing next to BWF.

It's Him!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:10 am

Barto

Linnie Mae Randle at 11:18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XWtb2JwzkM8

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:13 am

Mick Purdy

Been contemplating this thread of late, and there are things which puzzle me ( that can be easy these days) about BWF and his version of events that day.

The leap I've asked all of you to take with regards to Wesley and Lee's trip into the TSBD that morning is enormous on the surface and understandably a difficult pill to swallow given we've been fed the WC's, Buell's and Linnie Mae's version of that trip for over 50 years.

You know by now that my thread asks the reader to believe that Buell did not drive Lee into work that morning and that Linnie Mae and Buell fabricated the story of the ride which had Lee and Buell together for the trip into the TSBD.

You also know why I believe this to be the case, and without going into any in depth re hash of the reasons behind my theory you will understand that I believe that Shields, Shanklin, and Robert's are key in the destruction of the official version. Even Paine and Marina provide us with scrambled and confused recollections of where Lee was that morning. 

You know by now I believe That Wesley did not drive Lee to work. You know why I believe that.

To my mind there are only limited reasons why Frazier and Randle would fabricate or concoct a version of the trip into work having the later accused assassin LHO travelling with him when in my reality Frazier IMO had nobody in his car.

And crucial to my suspicions of the official version of that trip is the fact that not one person, zilch, zero, nada, other than Linnie Mae and Frazier observed Lee Harvey Oswald make the walk to the Randle residence, or make the long walk through the parking lot to the rear dock door at the TSBD.  And let alone with a large paper sack under arm.

More than this though, I am puzzled by the recall of Frazier and Randle back to the station late that night. I know some here believe that was just part of the "technique". But what gives me pause is the fact, and its there in the reports is that affidavits and sworn statements which were taken initially, were trashed and rewritten upon their return. To my mind something doesn't ring true here, and this IMO could be the most significant piece of the puzzle of Buells version of events that day.

I strongly believe that Randle's and Frazier's stories or versions of what happened that day were altered to suit the evolving narrative late Friday night early Saturday morning.

Even Frazier's version of what he did immediately after the shots has changed dramatically over time. 

Frazier and Linnie lied, and you have to ask why. I know some here believe it was to distance themselves or protect each other especially Buell.

But what part of that lie protected Buell, really. What part of the nonsense story of Frazier's version of the walk through the parking lot helped him? What part of the Basement yarn helped him, what part of I didn't go directly home aided him. What part of the sack and its length assisted him, what part of Linnies guestimate of the sacks length at over 3 feet helped her brother. What part of dropping the dime on Lee with regards to the sack he allegedly carried in her brothers car that morning helped their cause. What part of any of their deceit helped their cause in reality. 

The real problem is I can only speculate, I have put a case and to that end I think its persuasive. If you really do believe as I do that Oswald made his own way into the TSBD that morning and was in the Domino room at around 7.45 am reading a newspaper then that leaves Frazier swinging in the breeze to hang out to dry.
The final nail for Wes IMO is his recollection of who he is not standing next to a top of the steps in the Darnell frame, when he stated with regard to his and Prayer Man's ID:
 
He admitted 1. it was him.
He said 2. It was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady
because by that time he had taken off with Shelley for the RR yard.
Stan Dane at May 14, 2015 at 1:09 AM
 
Albert Rossi on Tue 30 Sep 2014 

This is still a work in progress, but I truly believe Wes holds some of the answers to the puzzle.

IMO Wesley did something wrong that day, what that is remains a mystery. IMO it most certainly was not the innocent case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time such as the official version would want us to believe.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:14 am

Vinny

He said 2. It was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady.

Maybe he was giving an indirect answer. Perhaps what he meant was that it was most probably not Lovelady, but the guy who resembled Lovelady namely Oswald.

Do you think that my idea might be correct?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:16 am

Stan Dane wrote:Vinny

He said 2. It was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady.

Maybe he was giving an indirect answer. Perhaps what he meant was that it was most probably not Lovelady, but the guy who resembled Lovelady namely Oswald.

Do you think that my idea might be correct?
 
Mick Purdy

Vinny,

I think you could be right.  

I think your bang on about his assessment of who that figure was. He seems to know that its a man that's for sure. He seems to be saying that it can't be Lovelady because he had left the steps. He seems to be saying It kinda sorta looks like Lovelady but that can't be......................so

Lee Farley is correct though. Buell ain't telling us who PM is. Not anytime soon.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 3:17 am

Vinny

Lee Farley is correct though. Buell ain't telling us who PM is. Not anytime soon.

Agreed. If only he found the courage to speak up, it would save a lot of trouble.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:04 pm

Mick Purdy

Its almost laughable to think that there were no other witnesses found by the DPD, FBI, or any other authority who had observed Lee Oswald's Friday morning walk to the Randle residence from the Paine house and then the long walk through the parking lot to the rear loading dock door of the TSBD.

They would've searched for sure, - or maybe not. Wouldn't  have wanted anybody coming forward who saw Oswald alone and without a large package now would they.

Nope there wouldn't have been too much searching for witnesses to Oswald's morning stroll that's near certain.

Thank goodness they found Linnie and Buell.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:07 pm

Faroe Islander

There are no witnesses, simply because nobody would give LHO an alibi, no way in hell the person who could have seen Oswald would have come forward and testify to that and risk being taking in for a serious interview and lie detector test and what ever DPD would throw at you.

I have read thousands of testimony and nobody is answering one single question yes or no, its every fucking question that is being answered is to the best of my recollection leaving it open to interpretation and not risking saying something wrong, remember Arnold Rowland that I have a little suspicion of having Aspergers he is the only witness that was being interrogated 7 times and was saying the same every time even remembering which windows were open in the TSBD he was interrogated to hell and back again because he said that he remembered seeing two men in the window 15 minutes Orion to the shooting, and even was it Sawyer that was talking to Amos Euins and the most prominent witness, he could not remember what they looked like, come on, a 14 year old small black boy and a construction worker wearing a silver helmet, maybe he remember it as a white hood?

Also I am sure that the majority of police officers including FBI and others believed that Oswald was the shooter and were not letting some small detail letting him off the hook, nobody cared who shot the POTUS they had one very suspicious man in custody and that was fine, even better if he could commit suicide before a trial, then in walks Jack Ruby and gets rid of that problem and then it is case closed until ROKC and Sean Murphy revived the case with Prayer Man.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:09 pm

Mick Purdy

I think its been shown that people had their statements altered.

And yes Faroe, anybody who didn't toe the line was put through the washer. We know this to be true. And you can back it in that there were people who saw Oswald that morning, but were ignored by the authorities. Hell, just look at Ed's Dallas Ticket Transfer thread, how many people did they pull from their butts in the fix against Oswald. Talk about rent a mob.

Makes me even more suspicious of Randle and Frazier. They were certainly given the going over, until early Saturday morning.

Why?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:10 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy

I think its been shown that people had their statements altered.

And yes Faroe, anybody who didn't toe the line was put through the washer. We know this to be true. And you can back it in that there were people who saw Oswald that morning, but were ignored by the authorities. Hell, just look at Ed's Dallas Ticket Transfer thread, how many people did they pull from their butts in the fix against Oswald. Talk about rent a mob.

Makes me even more suspicious of Randle and Frazier. They were certainly given the going over, until early Saturday morning.

Why?

Mick Purdy

We can back it in too, that Oswald was spotted by someone on the steps just after the shots rang out.  Wink

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:11 pm

anonymous

Mr Frazier, step up to the plate and tell us what you know. Be a hero to the world and no one dares to harm you or your family. You have suffered enough with all this chain to carry for more than half a century.

Do not take it to your grave. Set your self free.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:12 pm

Mick Purdy

The problem is that Buell has repeatedly prevaricated on the Prayer Man issue. Take for example his first known response to the Prayer Man issue. In post # 791 dated 20th September 2013 on page 53 of the EF Prayer Man thread, Sean Murphy copied an email from Gary Mack in which GM reported that “[Frazier] wouldn’t confirm being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough”.
 
[url=http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&hl= oswald leaving]http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&hl=%20oswald%20%20leaving%20%20tsbd&page=53[/url]
 
As Sean Murphy said at the time, Frazier’s non-denial that PM was Oswald was confirmation that PM actually was Oswald. And as Lee Farley also said in the old ROKC forum around that time, Frazier’s prevarication on his own presence in the Darnell image likewise confirmed that fact.
 
Frazier shifted his ground a year later when he confirmed to Albert Rossi that it was him in the Darnell image. And then he added a new element to his story at the JFK Lancer Conference in November 2015 where, according to Larry Hancock, Frazier said he did not remember being aware of anyone being in PM’s position at the time of the assassination.
 
https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/2015-jfk-lancer-conference/
 
The first problem with this is that Frazier’s claim to have not seen PM contradicts his claim that “Lee was not on the steps or in the area”. The two claims are irreconcilable because he cannot know that Lee was not on the steps if he didn’t see PM.
 
The second problem is that Frazier’s claim not to have seen PM is not credible as the Darnell film shows Frazier interacting with PM.
 
No one here is sensationalising the PM issue or casting aspersions on Frazier’s character.

The problem is that by reference to the “reasonable person test”, Frazier has undermined his own credibility with his prevarication and conflicting claims – and in the process confirmed that PM is Oswald.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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