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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:13 pm


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:14 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy

The problem is that Buell has repeatedly prevaricated on the Prayer Man issue. Take for example his first known response to the Prayer Man issue. In post # 791 dated 20th September 2013 on page 53 of the EF Prayer Man thread, Sean Murphy copied an email from Gary Mack in which GM reported that “[Frazier] wouldn’t confirm being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough”.
 
[url=http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&hl= oswald leaving]http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&hl=%20oswald%20%20leaving%20%20tsbd&page=53[/url]
 
As Sean Murphy said at the time, Frazier’s non-denial that PM was Oswald was confirmation that PM actually was Oswald. And as Lee Farley also said in the old ROKC forum around that time, Frazier’s prevarication on his own presence in the Darnell image likewise confirmed that fact.
 
Frazier shifted his ground a year later when he confirmed to Albert Rossi that it was him in the Darnell image. And then he added a new element to his story at the JFK Lancer Conference in November 2015 where, according to Larry Hancock, Frazier said he did not remember being aware of anyone being in PM’s position at the time of the assassination.
 
https://larryhancock.wordpress.com/2015/11/05/2015-jfk-lancer-conference/
 
The first problem with this is that Frazier’s claim to have not seen PM contradicts his claim that “Lee was not on the steps or in the area”. The two claims are irreconcilable because he cannot know that Lee was not on the steps if he didn’t see PM.
 
The second problem is that Frazier’s claim not to have seen PM is not credible as the Darnell film shows Frazier interacting with PM.
 
No one here is sensationalising the PM issue or casting aspersions on Frazier’s character.

The problem is that by reference to the “reasonable person test”, Frazier has undermined his own credibility with his prevarication and conflicting claims – and in the process confirmed that PM is Oswald.

Mick Purdy

Sorry Goban, this is your post which I copied and pasted, without a credit to you. My bad.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:16 pm

Mick Purdy

These are very interesting documents. They have been shown here before now, but they deserve a second look.


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:17 pm

Mick Purdy


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:18 pm

Mick Purdy

This document is extremely interesting.


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:19 pm

Mick Purdy

"Gayle phoned Buell and his response to my question is: "Lee was not on the steps or in the area. I wasn't paying attention to anything but the parade and wanting to see Mrs. Kennedy. I liked Lee. If I had seen him out there I would've told the Police when they asked".

Buell was paying attention though:
 
2/13/69 Shaw/Garrison trial

MR. ALCOCK:

Q: Can you see the spot where you were situated when the presidential motorcade came by?
A:Yes,sir, I can.
Q: Will you take this symbol and place it at that location where you were standing?
Q: Mr.Frazier, do you recall who you were with during the presidential motorcade?
A: Yes, sir, I can. When I was standing there at the TOP of the stairs, I was standing there by a heavyset lady who worked up in our office, her name is Sara, I forget her last name, but she was standing right there beside me when we watched the motorcade.
Q: Do you recall anyone else who may have been with you?
A: Right down in front of me at the bottom of the steps my foreman Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady were standing there.

"If I had seen him out there I would've told the Police when they asked".

No - Frazier would not have!

Frazier had been arrested and taken into custody. Given his circumstances there is no way he would have divulged that he had observed Lee on those steps immediately after the shots had been fired if he was aware Lee was in police custody accused of murder.

No way.

"...Police when they asked".

But did the police ask that very important question? You know the one "Did you see Oswald at the time of the shooting"? I don't suppose they did. Why would they anyway when the little commie bastard was on the 6th floor.

No Buell, you got some explaining to do.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:23 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy

This document is extremely interesting.


Terry Martin

I find it very interesting that one of the employee lists for the TSBD included Linnie Mae on the list and here it says that Randle mentioned that his wife worked in the same building.

Did she or did she not work at the TSBD?

And why do so many people seem to think she was?
(Or was this already answered?)

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:24 pm

Mick Purdy

I find it interesting also Terry.
I think Greg has answered the question in this thread somewhere.
Still curious how she has ended up on separate docs written up as an employee of the TSBD. 

From the three docs above:

"Randle indicated a personal acquaintanceship with Lee H. Oswald but did not indicate the degree of association."

or:

"He advised he did not know Oswald and had never seen the man until he appeared on television"

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:25 pm

Mick Purdy

Or:


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:27 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Stan Dane wrote:Mick Purdy

This document is extremely interesting.


Terry Martin

I find it very interesting that one of the employee lists for the TSBD included Linnie Mae on the list and here it says that Randle mentioned that his wife worked in the same building.

Did she or did she not work at the TSBD?

And why do so many people seem to think she was?
(Or was this already answered?)

Greg Parker

A case of Chinese whispers, Terry. What was said to the hotel managers was that Willy's wife's BROTHER worked with Oswald at the TSBD. But somehow, either Mrs. Thomson screwed it up in the telling, or the FBI agent screwed it up in his note-taking.

This was the reason Linnie is on Revill's list - handwritten at the bottom, but then later crossed out when the mistake was realized.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:28 pm

Mick Purdy

Save me a few hours Greg, How did she end of on the TSBD list again?
I know this has been addressed just to refresh the failing memory.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:29 pm

Greg Parker

Purely because of that miscommunication. The list was made up everyone in that building at the time - whether employees or not - with other employees added later who had been absent that day.

When the FBI got her name as an employee, they passed it on to the cops who added her to the list by hand and then crossed her off when it was discovered she not only was not there that day - she was not an absent employee either.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:29 pm

Terry Martin

Thanks, Greg. I thought I had heard about it before.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:30 pm

Mick Purdy

Thanks Greg, thought so - just couldn't recall where I'd read that before. Cheers.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:32 pm

Mick Purdy

I still find Randle's statements re: knowing Oswald prior to the assassination curious. As above.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:34 pm

Greg Parker

To play Devil's Advocate, he may have just been indulging in bragging -- especially if the Thompson's were Kennedy haters. "You hate JFK -- heck, I know his assassin - he's a neighbor!" 

Or it may be just more confusion in the message in that, maybe what he said was "my brother-in-law is acquainted with Oswald".

Not only did this confusion about who knew and who worked with who, cause the DPD to put Linnie Mae on TSBD list, but it also caused the FBI to look for the origin of the scope in the name Lee Harvey Oswald OR Willy Randle. In short, for a little while at least, because of that call from the Thompson's Linnie was listed as an Oswald co-worker and William as a possible co-conspirator. The one person escaping scot free via all of this confusion is the man whose name appears in the title of the thread.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:35 pm

Mick Purdy

"but it also caused the FBI to look for the originals of the scope in the name Lee Harvey Oswald OR Willy Randle".

Willie Randle, there's that name again.

Greg wrote:
 
Mrs John O Thompson who managed the hotel with her husband, phoned the Austin FBI office on November 23 due to things William Randle had said to them, including that
(1) his wife worked at the same building as Oswald (causing Linnie's name to be added to Revill's list temporarily);
(2) he was acquainted with Oswald and;
(3) that there had been rumors circulating in Dallas that Kennedy would be shot"on account of the Veteran's Administration Offices being moved out of Dallas".

Looking at those things individually:

I believe number one was simply Mrs Thompson misremembering what she had been told. What William no doubt told her was that his wife's BROTHER worked at the same building... not that his wife did...

Number two IMO, is unlikely to have been the result of any similar misunderstanding.

It is very hard to imagine how number three could not have been any sort of misunderstanding. The fact is that such rumors did circulate. The DPD had specific intelligence about it. I know this because back when I first started on this case and had more time, I immersed myself in the evidence as much as I could - and that included opening and reading every single DPD file here. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/index.html After reading what Randle had allegedly said, I returned to the DPD files to locate the relevant document --- only to find that the whole friggin folder has gone walkabout and is currently MIA.

When you go to it - it ain't there. Folder 2 has disappeared! http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box8.htm

According to CE1799, the postal inspectors, including in particular Harry Holmes, interviewed a Mr. and Mrs. C. P. Schneider of Irving, Texas, in the neighborhood of the Paines and Randles, on November 22, 1963, at 6 pm. They said that Mrs. Ed Roberts, i.e. Dorothy Roberts, told them that "Willie Randle" had driven Oswald to work that morning.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:38 pm

Mick Purdy

Terry said:

Frazier - where's your rider - is caught in the biggest fattest lie of this case. And I think Givens yelling "Where's your rider?" has a lot of implications for other areas of this case as well such as the Beckley house, the bus ride, and the perplexing question about who left the TSBD earliest, LHO or BWF?

Given's yelling "Where's your rider"? is more than a little curious, as Terry has noted the implications of that question are far reaching. That one question is a mine field for the deniers, the naysayers. 

It suggests in a powerful way that Lee Oswald was expected as the passenger of Wesley Frazier on Friday morning's which of course could lead one to believe Oswald was indeed staying in the Irving area all along.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:40 pm

Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

To play Devil's Advocate, he may have just been indulging in bragging -- especially if the Thompson's were Kennedy haters. "You hate JFK -- heck, I know his assassin - he's a neighbor!" 

Or it may be just more confusion in the message in that, maybe what he said was "my brother-in-law is acquainted with Oswald".

Not only did this confusion about who knew and who worked with who, cause the DPD to put Linnie Mae on TSBD list, but it also caused the FBI to look for the origin of the scope in the name Lee Harvey Oswald OR Willy Randle. In short, for a little while at least, because of that call from the Thompson's Linnie was listed as an Oswald co-worker and William as a possible co-conspirator. The one person escaping scot free via all of this confusion is the man whose name appears in the title of the thread.

Greg Parker

Mick, that's why I said I was playing Devil's Advocate here this time.

To be clear, I still believe any impression they got about him being acquainted with Oswald, was unlikely the result of the same sort of confusion as happened with mention of his wife.  The real problem I have is that I don't think this document can be used to support Willie knowing Oswald. That is because certain confusion in one of part of the document allows innocent spin on this part of the document (everything in it is due to confusion in what was really said). Also the word "acquaintance" i.e. personal acquaintance vs knowing about. Example  "Yes, I am acquainted with AC/DC". 

IMO, the less impeachable indicator of a relationship is the statement of the neighbor re: Slick Willy driving Oz to work. 

His denial about any statement concerning the Veteran's Office of course, remains a major concern.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:42 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker

To play Devil's Advocate, he may have just been indulging in bragging -- especially if the Thompson's were Kennedy haters. "You hate JFK -- heck, I know his assassin - he's a neighbor!" 

Or it may be just more confusion in the message in that, maybe what he said was "my brother-in-law is acquainted with Oswald".

Not only did this confusion about who knew and who worked with who, cause the DPD to put Linnie Mae on TSBD list, but it also caused the FBI to look for the origin of the scope in the name Lee Harvey Oswald OR Willy Randle. In short, for a little while at least, because of that call from the Thompson's Linnie was listed as an Oswald co-worker and William as a possible co-conspirator. The one person escaping scot free via all of this confusion is the man whose name appears in the title of the thread.

Greg Parker

Mick, that's why I said I was playing Devil's Advocate here this time.

To be clear, I still believe any impression they got about him being acquainted with Oswald, was unlikely the result of the same sort of confusion as happened with mention of his wife.  The real problem I have is that I don't think this document can be used to support Willie knowing Oswald. That is because certain confusion in one of part of the document allows innocent spin on this part of the document (everything in it is due to confusion in what was really said). Also the word "acquaintance" i.e. personal acquaintance vs knowing about. Example  "Yes, I am acquainted with AC/DC". 

IMO, the less impeachable indicator of a relationship is the statement of the neighbor re: Slick Willy driving Oz to work. 

His denial about any statement concerning the Veteran's Office of course, remains a major concern.

Mick Purdy

I know you were Greg, and agree with pretty much everything you've said.

On a side issue though:

I still have trouble dismissing that  Schneider/Roberts doc though, and I know its been covered before - but it troubles me.

There's good reason for that, because apart from Linnie and Buell nobody else has ever claimed that they observed Frazier driving Oswald to work that Friday.

Nobody.

In much the same way as that damn package Oswald supposedly carried - and how it allegedly found its way inside the TSBD, it has the same ring to it. I've always thought there was a lot more to the Randle household than what we've been told, and it starts with Wes coming down from Huntsville IMO.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:43 pm

Greg Parker

I'd say we're pretty much on the same page, Mick. The timing and the household circumstances alone cause some concern...

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:46 pm

Phil Hopley


Greg Parker wrote:Greg has said "Randle had left that morning bound for Austin with a fellow employee of his brother's firm named Berry Castor. Maybe Roberts mistook Castor for Oswald?"
Did Berry look like Oswald?
How did Berry get to the Randle's? Or did Willie have to go to Shady Grove and pick up Berry?
If the later then it was not Berry with Willie.
---------------------

Good point, Ed.

The first name of Berry struck me as unusual so I've done some searches.
From the Harold Weisberg collection at Hood University, is this page:
 
[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/R Disk/Randle Bill William Evert/Item 04.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/R%20Disk/Randle%20Bill%20William%20Evert/Item%2004.pdf[/url]
 
which provides the name of Berry J Caster, residing at 214 West Shady Grove, Irving.
 
The May 1964 Greater Dallas Telephone Directory has no listing for a Berry J Caster however, there is a listing for a Martin E Caster, residing at the same address of 214 W Shady Grove, Irving. Telephone: BL 3-9445.
 
From here http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~tdw2/our_ewalt/fam2654.html is some very brief biographical info of Martin E Caster (full name, dob, locale, wife's name and date of death). Also listed are the full names of his five children, the third child listed is Benny J Caster. It would appear that Berry should actually be Benny and according to this site
http://dfw.blockshopper.com/property/28028505660050000/537_st_johns_way/
he is still alive, living in Grand Prairie Texas and is 76 years old.
 
Name, full address and phone number: https://nuwber.com/person/563a9f6298f8a849c18f3a19
 
He also goes by the name of Bennie J Caster and Donnie Caster, refer: https://www.instantcheckmate.com/results/?firstName=Benny&lastName=Caster&state=TX&gender=male

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:47 pm

Greg Parker

Great work, Phil!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:47 pm

Mick Purdy

Nice work Phil.

I wonder if he'd clear up a few of those "niggles" for us. Especially that Friday. 

Berry, Benny, Bennie and Donnie.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:48 pm

Greg Parker

Sounds like the Osmonds!

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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