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Dallas Transit Transfer

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 18 Aug 2016, 4:24 pm

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

The point being that I believe Craig's earliest recollections are accurate. Can you really believe Fritz did not have him in the office given the circumstances? Either Oswald got the lift or someone very close in appearance. He is the only witness to describe the weight correctly 130-140lbs. He also confirms Rowland's witnessing two men on the 6th floor, even though the testimony reflects someone who only had a few minutes in the chaos with him. The basics are there. Chicken bones and bag on the stack of books in the SN not the trolley, no long bag in the SN.
February 12, 2015 at 5:52 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

   Colin Crow at February 12, 2015 at 5:52 PM

   The point being that I believe Craig's earliest recollections are accurate. Can you really believe Fritz did not have him in the office given the circumstances? Either Oswald got the lift or someone very close in appearance. He is the only witness to describe the weight correctly 130-140lbs. He also confirms Rowland's witnessing two men on the 6th floor, even though the testimony reflects someone who only had a few minutes in the chaos with him. The basics are there. Chicken bones and bag on the stack of books in the SN not the trolley, no long bag in the SN.

No, Colin. I do believe Roger Craig's recollections to be accurate. My main point when I first went through all this over at the Education Forum was that it was never incumbent upon me to prove how he got back to Oak Cliff simply because I had proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he was not on McWatters bus or in Whaley's cab.



It doesn't mean I don't want to - - it just means I don't have to and even though I do that doesn't mean I can.



I have no problem with the speculation process and trying to build a new narrative out of the remains of the old one but the problem will always be we will never all agree on the details. I have always had a primary driver when researching the case; continue to prove the official story is false and find a way to exonerate Lee Harvey Oswald. Greg's purpose in starting this forum was, and is, to have the case reopened. We can't solve it. It has to be done in an official capacity. During my bad days I think this is wishful thinking. During my good I think we have an outside shot. However, to do that we have to stop with the solution mode and continue with breaking the official story to pieces. That's just my view, others with have theirs but just look over at the Education Forum and see what happens when two dozen people think they've solved the case.



That being said I believe there are a number of ways that Oswald may have left Dealey Plaza:

1. A different bus or a different cab

2. A station wagon driven by persons unknown or by Ruth Paine (and if it was Paine the possibility rises that she also dropped him off in the morning)

3. A different automobile driven by persons unknown

4. An automobile driven by Charles Given, William Lowery or Joe Molina that took him straight to the Theater

5. I'm sticking with the hot air balloon as a possibility as absence of evidence is not evidence of absence



I'm also going to continue to present the case for Marion Meharg who rang Alveeta Treon (she of Raleigh call fame) the evening of the assassination and said he saw a man leave by the rear of the TSBD and hop into a 1956 Chevrolet Station Wagon that was green and white and was driven off from Houston Street toward the triple underpass. This is why I was asking about the model of car in the still I captured from the film that was taken minutes after the assassination on another thread. This still clearly shows a green and white chevrolet (albeit 1959) driving through Dealey Plaza.



I know when I first introduced Marion Meharg's story over at the EF it received a very lonely response (other than our very own Ed and John Dolva) but the more I delved the more I began believing the guy and that his story had been manipulated by the authorities similar to the way I am convinced (absolutely convinced) they manipulated Richard Randolph Carr's story. As a quick aside I once debated the Carr story with Larry Hancock by email and, fuck me, the guy was so myopic is was unreal. Mention Carr and you get the knee-jerk response that he couldn't have seen what he claimed but look through his statements and the statements of the people close to him and there is blatant evidence of manipulation.



So, what would I throw my money on?



He left by automobile. He was given the green light to leave by Bill Shelley. Shelley lied. Who was driving the automobile? Fucked if I'd know.
February 12, 2015 at 7:01 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

From an old RRC thread at the Education Forum:



There is a possible variable that we are failing to discuss regarding Richard Randolph Carr.



I can’t work out the answer to Lee Forman’s question concerning the document from 11/30/63 insofar as where this document is located and how he was the subject of an FBI record at the end of November because it looks like the FBI were trying to make it appear as though Carr first came to their attention through Mary Sue Brown at the end of December.



Brown was interviewed on December 27, 1963 and she relays to SA W. Harlan Brown the conversation that she was a part of when Carr made statements that Oswald did not assassinate the President.



The interesting part of the Mary Sue Brown report by Harlan Brown is that it states that “CARR told Mrs. Brown and others [Mrs. Brown’s sister Elsie Johnson and a friend named Holly Jordan] that there were four or five other steel workers on the building under construction near the place where the President was assassinated and that they likewise saw the assassination. Carr said that one of them had been interviewed by the FBI.”This report, by Harlan Brown, was typed up on the same day, 12/27/63, and was later reproduced as a report dated January 9, 1964, acting as back-story for the interview with Carr, and this January FBI report omits the line, “Carr said that one of them [four or five steel workers who likewise saw the assassination] had been interviewed by the FBI.”



Why would they want this line deleted from Mary Sue Brown’s original statement that was written into the December 27th report?



The thing that we are not discussing here, leaving the alleged contradictions in Carr’s New Orleans testimony aside for a moment, is how aggressively the FBI went after Carr once they began investigating him.



On January 15th, eleven days after Carr was interviewed due to Mary Sue Brown contacting the FBI, an airtel was sent from J. Edgar Hoover to J. Gordon Shanklin in Dallas. It states:



“Information…relating to alleged observations of Richard Randolph Carr.



The purpose of submitting a letterhead memorandum in this matter is not clear. It would appear this inquiry should be handled as a regular investigative development under the above caption [he means a miscellaneous JFK assassination header rather than under the header of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, aka. IS – R – CUBA] and not under the caption of referenced airtel.



Prior to considering this matter resolved, the allegations made by Carr should be specifically repudiated. It is noted one of the original allegations is that Carr stated Oswald did not assassinate the President and that he and four or five other steel workers witnessed the assassination and presumably they could substantiate Carr’s statements.



Carr should be recontacted and an appropriate signed statement taken regarding his observations. He should be confronted with the inconsistencies noted, particularly those based on personal observation by Dallas Agents. You should also be alert to any violation of Title 18, U.S. Code, Section 1001.



When the investigation is completed, it should be appropriately reported bearing in mind the Presidential Commission is being furnished copies of the investigative reports. A letterhead memorandum need not be submitted.”



This is strange to me because Hoover’s airtel from January 15th followed from Carr’s statements on January 4th. Carr was then interviewed again on February 3rd and gave a written and signed statement. He was not pressed concerning his allegations of other workers seeing/hearing the assassination even though Hoover wanted answers to what he described as “contradictions” in the statement. Carr does address the issue of why he said Oswald was not the assassin but doesn’t mention anything about the other worker being interviewed by the FBI who could “substantiate his statements.” The reason it is strange is because Hoover is basically requesting his agents to threaten Carr with Title 18, Section 1001 - furnishing false evidence to a Federal officer.



I cannot understand why in the January 9th FBI report it states that “Carr denied making any statements to the effect he had [observed] anyone leaving the entrance of the TSBD and getting into a gray car” because in the February 3rd signed and written statement he does state that very thing. He says, “This man, walking very fast, proceeded on Houston St., South to Commerce St., then East on Commerce St., to Record St. which is one block from Houston St. This man got into a 1961 or 1962 Grey Rambler Station Wagon which was parked just north of Commerce on Record St. The Station Wagon, which had Texas license and was driven by a young Negro man, drove off in a northern direction.”



http://contentdm.bay...PTR=33901&REC=3



Above link is to John Armstrong’s file on Richard Randolph Carr and contains his February 3rd written and signed statement on pages 16-21 as well as the various FBI reports [absent the November report alluded to by Lee Forman].



If Carr was making this up and Hoover was requesting his agents to pressure Carr with Title 18, Section 1001, then why didn’t they prosecute him if they could prove he was supplying false information to a Federal Officer?



The whole thing makes no sense to me and makes me put a little bit more faith in Carr and his recollections. As far as the FBI report is concerned that suggests the seventh floor and roof of the TSBD could only be seen from the Ninth Floor of the steel structure, what other evidence do we have of this other than the agents say so? Do we have photographs?



In a 1967 memo from Penn Jones to Jim Garrison, Jones states that “within 2 or 3 days after the assassination the FBI visited him [Carr] in his home. They were very brusque in their manner, and they told Mr. Carr if he didn’t see Oswald shoot out of the 6th floor window he had better keep his damn mouth shut.”



I’m beginning to believe him because there is something not quite right with these reports and I’m struggling to buy the reason the FBI went after Carr was because Mary Sue Brown contacted them on December 27th. I think he was contacted prior in November and I think he was threatened.



In a 1977 newpaper article Carr states, "On January 2nd, 1964, police, claiming to have a search warrant, barged into his house and turned the place upside down. Two shotguns were aimed at him and his wife. The policeman, Carr claims, dared them to move. Carr and his son were taken to the police station, where Carr was detained overnight. The following day, his family started receiving anonymous telephone calls threatening death if they didn't get out of Texas.



Terrified, Carr moved to Montana. Within weeks three men, one of them matching the description of the man Carr saw leaving the TBSD came looking for him at his home while he was at work.



Suspicious, Carr started checking his automobile. Once he found three sticks of dynamite wired to the ignition.



In 1968, Carr agreed to appear as a witness at the Clay Shaw hearings in New Orleans. But 15 days before he was scheduled to appear, police in Billings, Montana, arrested a man just as he was about to shoot Carr.



In July of 1969, while visiting relatives in Atlanta, Georgia, Carr was attacked on a city street and stabbed in the back and arm by two men. Carr, who was carrying a gun by this time, shot one of his assailants three times.



The threats on his life continued and in 1975 his marriage fell apart. Then Carr disappeared.



However, an independent Kennedy assassination researcher found him recently. He had changed his name and remarried. But he was still suffering the wounds of his ordeal, both physical and mental."

Ed. Ledoux

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 8:22 am

Terry Martin
Moderator
Posts: 1143

Lee,



An astounding story. Carr's life after Dallas seems to mimic that of Roger Craig. Assaulted repeatedly, marriage broke up, and so forth. And he also witnessed a Rambler drive off with Lee inside. Funny that they both have the initials "TC" and were befriended by Penn.



I like the part where he said the shooter was on the seventh floor or roof of the TSBD. The sixth floor seemed to be void of shooters that day regardless of the clattering sounds of the ejected shells hitting the floor.



Were any of the other people he mentions as co-witnesses ever followed up on?



On another note, I am leaning more toward clicking the heels of his glass slippers together than the hot-air balloon theory of escape. I do not recall a suitable landing area near the Texas Theater for the balloon even though there is plenty of hot air in this case.



The glass slippers would also tie in the earlier discussion of Lee spending time in the gay bars in NO... My bad! That was Harvey.



I admire the work you and Greg have done and I especially like the statement in your next previous post, that you do not have to "solve" the case, just prove the WC got it all wrong. I think we can all see it is pretty well shredded by now.



And we already have too many people who have "solved" the case.
February 12, 2015 at 9:27 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
Moderator
Posts: 1143

Damn! They didn't have the initials "TC" but "RC".

Too early in my day to be typing, I guess. Ought to wait until I've had another cup of coffee...
February 12, 2015 at 9:39 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Beowulf
Member
Posts: 179
When you said TC, I started thinking maybe Magnim PI's pilot buddy choppered Oswald out. http://magnum-mania.com/images/4_11_full.jpg Will have to look into Carr, thats an interesting story.
--

February 13, 2015 at 12:24 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
Moderator
Posts: 1411

Getting a lift, because there are witnesses to it, would seem the most plausible. But that would tend to suggest he was involved somehow - and I don't believe he was (although there may be a scenario whereby he is picked up but is still a complete unknowing patsy...)



If Oswald was to be framed inside the Texas Theater for Tippit's murder (as I wholeheartedly believe), then I think it stands to reason that he was driven there under the pretence that he was to make contact with someone. 
February 13, 2015 at 12:37 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Paul Francisco Paso
Administrator
Posts: 729

Hasan Yusuf at February 13, 2015 at 12:37 AM


Getting a lift, because there are witnesses to it, would seem the most plausible. But that would tend to suggest he was involved somehow - and I don't believe he was (although there may be a scenario whereby he is picked up but is still a complete unknowing patsy...)

If Oswald was to be framed inside the Texas Theater for Tippit's murder (as I wholeheartedly believe), then I think it stands to reason that he was driven there under the pretence that he was to make contact with someone. 

I agree, Hasan. The Texas Theater proved to be a trap and Oswald was there to make contact with someone. Jack Davis (who was interviewed by the 6th floor museum) witnessed Oswald moving from seat to seat. He wasn't there by accident and nor were the avalanche of cops who were supposedly there to arrest someone who snuck into the movies.

I believe Oswald was driven there. There is no doubt in my mind.


February 13, 2015 at 5:19 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
Moderator
Posts: 1143

I always wondered about the tale that he was moving from seat-to-seat as if searching for someone.



When did this story first see the light of day and are there any corroborating testimonies? I ask because it seems like a "distraction", something to tie Oswald into the conspiracy. That and the Redbird airport scenario; neither make much sense to me.



Unless, of course, Oswald was up to the eyebrows in the plot... which I doubt!

 

This does seem to take us a far remove from the subject of the thread, I think. Still if he did not take the bus, etc., one wonders how he made it to the theater.
February 13, 2015 at 5:54 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Beowulf
Member
Posts: 179

I'm curious, could have Oswald have taken bus directly to TT? Did Marsalis bus (McWatters's bus presumably) or the Beckley bus have a stop near Texas Theatre? It'd certainly tie up loose ends if Oswald was given a ride from Dealey Plaza to TT by Officer Tippit but I don't think the timing works (Tippit was seen, alone, in the Gloco gas station parking lot at 12:40).

I think Oswald was involved in something, he didn't really act like an innocent man would. Of course it could be he wasn't involved in the assassination but was involved in gun running, drug smuggling or something equally felonious that a murder investigation might stumble over. Once he had a lawyer he would have been advised that coming clean might land him jail for a few years but would save him from the electric chair. Then again maybe he was the lookout whose job was to get the shooting team on and off the elevator without a fuss. There's no telling.
--

February 13, 2015 at 6:53 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Redfern
Member
Posts: 60

Beowulf at February 13, 2015 at 6:53 AM


I'm curious, could have Oswald have taken bus directly to TT? Did Marsalis bus (McWatters's bus presumably) or the Beckley bus have a stop near Texas Theatre? It'd certainly tie up loose ends if Oswald was given a ride from Dealey Plaza to TT by Officer Tippit but I don't think the timing works (Tippit was seen, alone, in the Gloco gas station parking lot at 12:40).
I think Oswald was involved in something, he didn't really act like an innocent man would. Of course it could be he wasn't involved in the assassination but was involved in gun running, drug smuggling or something equally felonious that a murder investigation might stumble over. Once he had a lawyer he would have been advised that coming clean might land him jail for a few years but would save him from the electric chair. Then again maybe he was the lookout whose job was to get the shooting team on and off the elevator without a fuss. There's no telling.

Buses going across the Houston Street Bridge were delayed due to jams in the aftermath of the assassination. This is why police supposedly had to rule out a bus-only trip by Oswald. 



If Oswald did get on the station wagon at 12.40 as described by Roger Craig, then the trip to north-east Oak Cliff would be as brief as 5 minutes, suggesting that a significant period is unaccounted for in non-Warren theories of Oswald's movements. The natural routes would be either along Commerce and south on Beckley or from Elm directly onto the Stemmons/R L Thornton freeway.

I don't think there was a route available in 1963 from the Triple Underpass to the city side of the Houston Street Bridge. (I stand to be corrected, though.) This would imply that should Tippit have been at the Gloco service station, he would not have seen the station wagon described by Craig.



Roger Craig's version of events in 1963 and 1964 seems perfectly sound to me. It gives a tantalising glimpse of what Oswald was really saying in custody.

To acknowledge that he left Dealey Plaza by Ruth Paine's station wagon (which certainly appears to be implied by Craig's testimony) means Oswald was co-operating. His 'everybody will know who I am now' comment sounds like a despairing realisation that his role as an undercover agent was ruined.
February 13, 2015 at 9:01 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Terry Martin at February 13, 2015 at 5:54 AM


I always wondered about the tale that he was moving from seat-to-seat as if searching for someone.

When did this story first see the light of day and are there any corroborating testimonies? I ask because it seems like a "distraction", something to tie Oswald into the conspiracy. That and the Redbird airport scenario; neither make much sense to me.

Unless, of course, Oswald was up to the eyebrows in the plot... which I doubt!
 
This does seem to take us a far remove from the subject of the thread, I think. Still if he did not take the bus, etc., one wonders how he made it to the theater.

I agree with you, Terry.



Now that we know the level of complete and utter bullshit that was woven into a totally fraudulent story about this fella I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  



And as quickly as I laid money down on a belief that he was driven over to Oak Cliff in an automobile I'm also willing to throw a wager on a different scenario.  



Don't know whether this has legs but I'll only bet what I can afford to lose.  Feel free to play devil's advocate and pick this to pieces but please excuse me rushing this because I'm typing on the move.



1. Lee Oswald was being cased by U.S. Intelligence Officer S. L. Reed.  

2. Bill Shelley was on orders to dismiss Oswald from work.

3. Reed watched the building and as Oswald left he followed him.  

4. Reed took photos of Oswald all the way up Elm Street.  

5. He watched him get on the Beckley bus and takes the necessary photos of street containing different buses.  

6. In the S. L. Reed photos of the buses on Elm Street the first bus waiting to cross Houston Street was the Beckley Bus and it quickly got through the traffic driving down Elm Street straight past the TSBD.

7. Reed followed the bus in his car.  

8. He then saw Oswald get off the Beckley bus at Jefferson and followed him to the Theater.  

9. Reed watched Oswald enter the Theater at approximately 1pm just as TT employee Butch Burroughs claimed.  

10. Reed then rang Oswald's location through to a contact from a pay phone and waited.  

11. 45 minutes later he watched the DPD swoop and was on hand photographed Lee Oswald getting dragged out the Theater by police officers.



Much narrative to replace and add in but I think this is a possibility.  



This is the reason why we don't have every S. L. Reed photograph that he took that afternoon.



I'll think about the Bledsoe-Jones evidence in relation to this tonight but I think the library caper may have been designed to stall McWatters bus. 
February 13, 2015 at 9:37 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Redfern at February 13, 2015 at 9:01 AM


Beowulf at February 13, 2015 at 6:53 AM


I'm curious, could have Oswald have taken bus directly to TT? Did Marsalis bus (McWatters's bus presumably) or the Beckley bus have a stop near Texas Theatre? It'd certainly tie up loose ends if Oswald was given a ride from Dealey Plaza to TT by Officer Tippit but I don't think the timing works (Tippit was seen, alone, in the Gloco gas station parking lot at 12:40).
I think Oswald was involved in something, he didn't really act like an innocent man would. Of course it could be he wasn't involved in the assassination but was involved in gun running, drug smuggling or something equally felonious that a murder investigation might stumble over. Once he had a lawyer he would have been advised that coming clean might land him jail for a few years but would save him from the electric chair. Then again maybe he was the lookout whose job was to get the shooting team on and off the elevator without a fuss. There's no telling.
Buses going across the Houston Street Bridge were delayed due to jams in the aftermath of the assassination. This is why police supposedly had to rule out a bus-only trip by Oswald. 

If Oswald did get on the station wagon at 12.40 as described by Roger Craig, then the trip to north-east Oak Cliff would be as brief as 5 minutes, suggesting that a significant period is unaccounted for in non-Warren theories of Oswald's movements. The natural routes would be either along Commerce and south on Beckley or from Elm directly onto the Stemmons/R L Thornton freeway.
I don't think there was a route available in 1963 from the Triple Underpass to the city side of the Houston Street Bridge. (I stand to be corrected, though.) This would imply that should Tippit have been at the Gloco service station, he would not have seen the station wagon described by Craig.

Roger Craig's version of events in 1963 and 1964 seems perfectly sound to me. It gives a tantalising glimpse of what Oswald was really saying in custody.
To acknowledge that he left Dealey Plaza by Ruth Paine's station wagon (which certainly appears to be implied by Craig's testimony) means Oswald was co-operating. His 'everybody will know who I am now' comment sounds like a despairing realisation that his role as an undercover agent was ruined.

Regarding the buses Redfern.  If Reed's photo's show the buses in question then it looks like traffic was moving slowly through Elm and we have witnesses saying traffic continued to flow for some time before the whole area was cordoned off.
February 13, 2015 at 9:59 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
Moderator
Posts: 1143

Lee Farley at February 13, 2015 at 9:37 AM


Terry Martin at February 13, 2015 at 5:54 AM


I always wondered about the tale that he was moving from seat-to-seat as if searching for someone.

When did this story first see the light of day and are there any corroborating testimonies? I ask because it seems like a "distraction", something to tie Oswald into the conspiracy. That and the Redbird airport scenario; neither make much sense to me.

Unless, of course, Oswald was up to the eyebrows in the plot... which I doubt!
 
This does seem to take us a far remove from the subject of the thread, I think. Still if he did not take the bus, etc., one wonders how he made it to the theater.
I agree with you, Terry.

Now that we know the level of complete and utter bullshit that was woven into a totally fraudulent story about this fella I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

And as quickly as I laid money down on a belief that he was driven over to Oak Cliff in an automobile I'm also willing to throw a wager on a different scenario.  

Don't know whether this has legs but I'll only bet what I can afford to lose.  Feel free to play devil's advocate and pick this to pieces but please excuse me rushing this because I'm typing on the move.

1. Lee Oswald was being cased by U.S. Intelligence Officer S. L. Reed.  
2. Bill Shelley was on orders to dismiss Oswald from work.
3. Reed watched the building and as Oswald left he followed him.  
4. Reed took photos of Oswald all the way up Elm Street.  
5. He watched him get on the Beckley bus and takes the necessary photos of street containing different buses.  
6. In the S. L. Reed photos of the buses on Elm Street the first bus waiting to cross Houston Street was the Beckley Bus and it quickly got through the traffic driving down Elm Street straight past the TSBD.
7. Reed followed the bus in his car.  
8. He then saw Oswald get off the Beckley bus at Jefferson and followed him to the Theater.  
9. Reed watched Oswald enter the Theater at approximately 1pm just as TT employee Butch Burroughs claimed.  
10. Reed then rang Oswald's location through to a contact from a pay phone and waited.  
11. 45 minutes later he watched the DPD swoop and was on hand photographed Lee Oswald getting dragged out the Theater by police officers.

Much narrative to replace and add in but I think this is a possibility.  

This is the reason why we don't have every S. L. Reed photograph that he took that afternoon.

I'll think about the Bledsoe-Jones evidence in relation to this tonight but I think the library caper may have been designed to stall McWatters bus. 

I like it, Lee. Simple, straightforward, and, like I said, simple. I like simple. It is easy to wrap this mind around simple.



The getaway described by Craig would seem to run counter to it and it has no opportunity for Lee to change clothes. With him catching a ride so quickly after the assassination, I wondered who he could have called to pick him up. The idea that the Rambler station wagon was idling in the parking lot behind the TSBD would seem to imply prior knowledge and the need for a quick getaway.



Lee got the afternoon off and decided to take in the new Van Heflin flick. Nothing very sinister in that.



It will be interesting to see where this thing goes.



This afternoon I was wondering - if Bledsoe was still his landlady at the time and the authorities might have "leaned on her" with some vague threat of assisting the assassin, harboring or aiding and abetting or something, unless she plays nice and throws him under the bus... Or in this case, "on" the bus.



Just an idle thought.


February 13, 2015 at 10:25 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

steely dan
Moderator
Posts: 1013

Lee Farley at February 13, 2015 at 9:37 AM


Terry Martin at February 13, 2015 at 5:54 AM


I always wondered about the tale that he was moving from seat-to-seat as if searching for someone.

When did this story first see the light of day and are there any corroborating testimonies? I ask because it seems like a "distraction", something to tie Oswald into the conspiracy. That and the Redbird airport scenario; neither make much sense to me.

Unless, of course, Oswald was up to the eyebrows in the plot... which I doubt!
 
This does seem to take us a far remove from the subject of the thread, I think. Still if he did not take the bus, etc., one wonders how he made it to the theater.
I agree with you, Terry.

Now that we know the level of complete and utter bullshit that was woven into a totally fraudulent story about this fella I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

And as quickly as I laid money down on a belief that he was driven over to Oak Cliff in an automobile I'm also willing to throw a wager on a different scenario.  

Don't know whether this has legs but I'll only bet what I can afford to lose.  Feel free to play devil's advocate and pick this to pieces but please excuse me rushing this because I'm typing on the move.

1. Lee Oswald was being cased by U.S. Intelligence Officer S. L. Reed.  
2. Bill Shelley was on orders to dismiss Oswald from work.
3. Reed watched the building and as Oswald left he followed him.  
4. Reed took photos of Oswald all the way up Elm Street.  
5. He watched him get on the Beckley bus and takes the necessary photos of street containing different buses.  
6. In the S. L. Reed photos of the buses on Elm Street the first bus waiting to cross Houston Street was the Beckley Bus and it quickly got through the traffic driving down Elm Street straight past the TSBD.
7. Reed followed the bus in his car.  
8. He then saw Oswald get off the Beckley bus at Jefferson and followed him to the Theater.  
9. Reed watched Oswald enter the Theater at approximately 1pm just as TT employee Butch Burroughs claimed.  
10. Reed then rang Oswald's location through to a contact from a pay phone and waited.  
11. 45 minutes later he watched the DPD swoop and was on hand photographed Lee Oswald getting dragged out the Theater by police officers.

Much narrative to replace and add in but I think this is a possibility.  

This is the reason why we don't have every S. L. Reed photograph that he took that afternoon.

I'll think about the Bledsoe-Jones evidence in relation to this tonight but I think the library caper may have been designed to stall McWatters bus. 

Of all the coincidences surrounding the events of that day, Reed and his camera stick out like a sore thumb. Am i right in thinking that shortly after the assassination Reed was incommunicado?. Regarding the traffic, Craig stated that he couldn't cross the road because it had yet to be closed off, when he saw the person enter the Rambler.
February 13, 2015 at 10:28 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

John Mooney
Member
Posts: 48

It would indeed be interesting to know exactly how Reed got to the Theater.

He wasn't an official photographer as far as I can see and wouldn't have been tagging along with the Police.

Would he?
February 13, 2015 at 5:24 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Is there any way an innocent Lee is tricked into going to the TT? Serious question and I need an answer!
February 13, 2015 at 5:42 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Redfern
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Posts: 60

steely dan at February 13, 2015 at 10:28 AM


Lee Farley at February 13, 2015 at 9:37 AM


Terry Martin at February 13, 2015 at 5:54 AM


I always wondered about the tale that he was moving from seat-to-seat as if searching for someone.

When did this story first see the light of day and are there any corroborating testimonies? I ask because it seems like a "distraction", something to tie Oswald into the conspiracy. That and the Redbird airport scenario; neither make much sense to me.

Unless, of course, Oswald was up to the eyebrows in the plot... which I doubt!
 
This does seem to take us a far remove from the subject of the thread, I think. Still if he did not take the bus, etc., one wonders how he made it to the theater.
I agree with you, Terry.

Now that we know the level of complete and utter bullshit that was woven into a totally fraudulent story about this fella I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt.  

And as quickly as I laid money down on a belief that he was driven over to Oak Cliff in an automobile I'm also willing to throw a wager on a different scenario.  

Don't know whether this has legs but I'll only bet what I can afford to lose.  Feel free to play devil's advocate and pick this to pieces but please excuse me rushing this because I'm typing on the move.

1. Lee Oswald was being cased by U.S. Intelligence Officer S. L. Reed.  
2. Bill Shelley was on orders to dismiss Oswald from work.
3. Reed watched the building and as Oswald left he followed him.  
4. Reed took photos of Oswald all the way up Elm Street.  
5. He watched him get on the Beckley bus and takes the necessary photos of street containing different buses.  
6. In the S. L. Reed photos of the buses on Elm Street the first bus waiting to cross Houston Street was the Beckley Bus and it quickly got through the traffic driving down Elm Street straight past the TSBD.
7. Reed followed the bus in his car.  
8. He then saw Oswald get off the Beckley bus at Jefferson and followed him to the Theater.  
9. Reed watched Oswald enter the Theater at approximately 1pm just as TT employee Butch Burroughs claimed.  
10. Reed then rang Oswald's location through to a contact from a pay phone and waited.  
11. 45 minutes later he watched the DPD swoop and was on hand photographed Lee Oswald getting dragged out the Theater by police officers.

Much narrative to replace and add in but I think this is a possibility.  

This is the reason why we don't have every S. L. Reed photograph that he took that afternoon.

I'll think about the Bledsoe-Jones evidence in relation to this tonight but I think the library caper may have been designed to stall McWatters bus. 
Of all the coincidences surrounding the events of that day, Reed and his camera stick out like a sore thumb. Am i right in thinking that shortly after the assassination Reed was incommunicado?. Regarding the traffic, Craig stated that he couldn't cross the road because it had yet to be closed off, when he saw the person enter the Rambler.

The traffic had been cut off (I'd assume the latest possible point being that at which the motorcade pilot car came into view).

About 9 or 10 minutes after the assassination, vehicles were allowed to proceed on Elm past the TSBD - directly across what would be treated today as a major crime scene.

The station wagon was one of the first vehicles through.

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:14 am

John Mooney
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What was so interesting about this spot that he stayed there and took two uninteresting photos over the time it took for the bus to travel that distance in slow traffic?
February 13, 2015 at 6:10 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

John Mooney
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February 13, 2015 at 6:21 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Redfern
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Greg at February 13, 2015 at 5:42 PM


Is there any way an innocent Lee is tricked into going to the TT? Serious question and I need an answer!

How about he was innocent in as far as he was an inside informant within the plot and, as such, the perfect patsy?

It looks to me like he was inveigled into playing a dangerous double-game - 'spying in right-wing groups' while ostensibly playing an active role in them. 

If he was completely cut-off from the assassination plot, how could anyone predict or control his movements and behaviour in the aftermath? He could have been shot outside the TSBD but that would have raised awkward questions about prior knowledge.



The timing of the rifle and revolver orders suggest that he was initially meant to be blamed for an attempt to murder General Walker. Then a change of focus?

There seem to be undercurrents of rivalry and turf wars between the FBI and the CIA throughout the whole episode.
February 13, 2015 at 6:32 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Myers in With Malice has the bus for Helen coming at 1:15pm
He goes on in an endnote to say the bus stop pictured by FBI is on the NE corner of Patton and Jefferson.
Myers notes the inbound buses would be on the other side off Jefferson or South side.
Seems she would need to be asked if she needed to cross Jefferson. But was not.
I am trying to locate the BUS STOP PHOTO as described.
 CD 630 only talks of other photos, and no bus stop or Jefferson

Myers cites all the WCT and documents,
CD 689
CD 1128
CD 897
CD 630h
we have been through and I went through again, and in not one does Myers find support for the 1:15 bus claim.
There are a few buses one could get on, from the documents provided and cited, there are none that go downtown and have a 1:15 Jefferson stop. 
No evidence for a 1:15 bus in fact the document 630h that the FBI provides says 1:12 and every 10 minutes thereafter, but even it does not give a reference to how that data was collected or determined to be acurate or for which bus and at which stop exactly. ie no route card.
Rather vague work by the FBI for the Commission. Bob Barrett needs to be more specific when it comes to solving a double murder...where is the route card Bob?
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=351169


HM gets to corner of 10th and Patton by her estimate at 6 or 7 minutes after 1pm, but then she is cut off in her testimony!
Shooting occured at 1:06 -1:07 about 2 minutes after HM left the washiteria pay phone.
Times for trip from her home to that corner took 2 1/2 minutes.
The time is never stated as 1:04 as her time she left in WC tesimony, that comes from CD 897.  1pm is given by HM to the WC as the time.
Myers notes she was late by a few minutes trying to call her daughter.
Also in CD897 FBI relates that HM hoped to catch the bus about 1:15
So was "about 1:15" an easier way of saying 1:12? Yes it would be. About 1:15 includes 1:12, especially when framed with a 2.5 minute walk to the bus stop and leaving at 1:04. In that frame about 1:15 is equal to 1:12 seeing as she would be early to the bus stop, and would be waiting there without the aid of the washeteria clock.

But from the documents cited and provided, 1:15 is a false claim. It maybe what Markham said to the FBI and WC but that is not withstanding the time she said she saw the shooting-and or got to 10th & Patton or the time she saw on the clock before leaving for the bus.




http://phorum.dallashistory.org/read.php?2,19500,page=2


Wanda Scroggins-Liford

Re: Dallas Transit System/to roy

August 03, 2004 04:52PM

My husband was working for DTS when we met and worked for them for several years after we married. He too worked out of the Peak St. Barn. I had a free bus pass for as long as he worked for them. He was driving the Ramona line when I met him. His was the last Ramona bus out of downtown for the evening. Everything after that was the Marsalis/Ramona combination. I was attending night classes at old Crozier Tech, and would run like crazy to catch his bus. I want to say Ramona was #15 and Marsalis was #30, but I'm probably wrong. Ramona went across the Houston St. Bridge and turned onto Ewing then went zig zagged at Ewing and Frio and picked Ramona up at the Ramona Ave. Baptist Church where Frio and Ramona became a Y in the road. When it got to the end of the line, it would turn onto Five Mile Pkwy. then onto Frio, then onto Kingsley, then back onto Ramona going back downtown. I lived at Owega and Ramona which was almost to the end of the line. By the time we got that far out I was usually the only one left on the bus. Sometimes I would ride all the way around and get off on the way back into town. When Ray and I married in 1966, there were only two female drivers. One was a tiny little thing named Mrs. Foster and I can't remember the other's name. They got their jobs during WWII and stayed with it when the war ended. Mrs. Foster committed suicide in 1968 or 1969. I used to ride her White Rock bus when we lived in Casa View.

Wanda's husband may be the next driver whom took over from the morning Ramona driver. Or he was driving the Ramona bus during the assassination till evening. WoW! Anyways he would be there at least by '66 or before.



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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:37 am

Ed Ledoux
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Looking south down Patton to Jefferson at a bus at the corner.



Looking towards Patton from South side of Jefferson. Note Bus Stop red arrow and where another should be opposite side Jefferson Blvd.




February 13, 2015 at 11:28 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

   Greg at February 13, 2015 at 5:42 PM

   Is there any way an innocent Lee is tricked into going to the TT? Serious question and I need an answer!

Perhaps you are looking at the situation the wrong direction around. All the dire and sinister trappings of the TT seem to have been added later, some of it much later.



Lee had the afternoon off. What to do? Go buy a Dr.Pepper and sit around his room - in whatever boarding house he may have actually resided - or take in a movie. There's a new Van Heflin flic playing at the TT, so why not?



There was nothing luring him to the TT, only - if Lee's supposition is correct - Reed following him and letting someone know where he was. Perhaps he was not acting antsy, moving and changing seats numerous times, and maybe his countenance was not really frightening to Julia Postal and the boys... well, not until later's retrospection when everything took on dire meaning.



I think Lee was just there to see a film and take his mind off the events of the day and to cogitate on what it might mean to him and his real work at the TSBD. Surely, he must have considered some connection between the assassination and his presence there but he would need some down time to mull it over.



Some people have to be in a still and quiet environment to "think things through clearly" but other people prefer noise and action, something that can occupy their frontal lobes while the good ol neo-cortex can tackle the problem. If the thoughts are too raw and clogged up - chaotic from too many tangles - how better to shut down that portion of the brain by being engaged in watching an action adventure?



I have found it works for me as well, sometimes.



So, just thinking out loud, I don't consider any portion of the authorized version of the TT charade to require LHO being "lured" to the place.


Ed Ledoux
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Discounting Smalls account herein gives a Houston and Elm traffic description



An interesting find in CD 689 is the Second Avenue 12 and Lagow 14 Route Cards. That are copied in an odd way.
https://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11087&relPageId=13
It shows PINKSTON and GARDEN LANE for inbound Second Ave. And Troy and Hatcher for Inbound Lagow.
The crop done to the shceduled times shown, although not for Oak Cliff, show a 1:04 and 1:24 in plus a 1:13 and 1:33 inbound, and are indicative off a bus every 10 minutes inbound but  again why crop the "inbound times" from a Route Card for SW Dallas unless that was important and outbound times were not. I mean they barely copied the 12 and first few letters of Second... I say it was to show the 10 minute bus interval. (as well as a transferable bus from point 6)
They cared not when these buses left Commerce!! Just when they would have been inbound. Or was it just a horrible copy job, one would think Hoover may scoff at an agent whom can't even copy a schedule card completely.
I think it is Odd?

Also odd is the 14 and 15 buses.
Often they are called Ramona and or Lagow, mixed together in CD 689 etc.
Ramona is in Oak Cliff and Lagow would be in SW Dallas on the other side of the river.
They are wrong about transfer point 7, you can not transfer at Jefferson Blvd to a Second or Lagow bus they are no where near Jefferson!.
Unless Hampton and Sunset runs continue to become the Second and Lagow...
Did the 10 and 11 turn into the 12 and 14 .... ? And did Dallas Trans. not have a Run 13? I'm a smartass &



1963 BUS RUNS DALLAS 1963

1 Belmont

2 Ervay

4 Bishop

5 Tyler

6 Forrest

7 Harwood

8 Oak Lawn

9 Crosstown

10 Sunset

11 Hampton

12 Second Ave

14 Lagow  (Ramona15?) Smile   http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11293&relPageId=211

15 Ramona

17 Mt Auburn

18 Parkview

19 Abrams

20 Skillman

21 SMU

22 Beckley

23 Lakewood

24 Capitol

25 West Shore

29 Maple

30 Marsalis

32 Royal Hills

33 Baltimore

34 Vickery

36 Preston Hollow

39 Love Field

42 Elmwood

44 So Oakland

46 Meadow

48 Beverly Hills

52 Singleton

54 Beverly Hills

55 Lancaster

59 Ledbetter

62 Wynnewood

63 Industrial








This is the list from the 1942 Dallas Railway and Terminal Company Map Street Cars:

1 - Belmont

2 - Ervay

3 - Junius Heights

4 - Highland Park

5 - State

6 - Myrtle

7 - Harwood

8 - Oak Lawn

9 - Crosstown

10 - Sunset

11 - Hampton

12 - Second

14 - Forney

15 - Trinity Heights

16 - Seventh

17 - Mt Auburn

18 - Parkview

Motor Coaches:

20 - Skillman

21 - Akard

22 - Beckley

23 - Lakewood

24 - Capitol

25 - Greenway

26 - Lake

27 - Swiss

28 - Lemmon

29 - Love Field

31 - Hickory

32 - S University Park Express South

33 - Kessler

34 - Vickery

35 - Western Heights

36 - Preston Hollow

52 - Eagle Ford

54 - Beverly Hills

Feeder Coaches:

40 - Bluff View

41 - Cedar Crest

42 - Elmwood

43 - Fitzhugh

44 - Grand

45 - Jefferson

46 - Lakeside

47 - Lisbon

48 - Owenwood

49 - Spring

50 - White Rock

51 - Wilshire

53 - Fruitdale

55 - Lake Highlands

56 - Oak Cliff Crosstown






February 14, 2015 at 1:19 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Good thinking Lee,

I had a post I lost that was about Stuart L Reed following LHO. Wanted to get edge numbers from slides to establish the order taken. I have never seen a full slide with edge detail. I have not seen any way for those whom claim the number of each slide is really the actual number from the roll.
Has this been explored. I will try.

Reed slides:

Hi,



We've forwarded your question to the Center for SE La. Studies.
Their direct contact information is below:

http://www.southeastern.edu/acad_research/programs/csls/index.html
Center for Southeast Louisiana Studies
Sims Memorial Library, Room 306
1211 SGA Drive
SLU Box 10730
Hammond, LA 70402
Tel: 985-549-XXXX
Director
Dr. XXXXXXX XXXX
selahistory@southeastern

Ed. Ledoux

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 11:56 am

Paul Francisco Paso
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   Greg at February 13, 2015 at 5:42 PM

   Is there any way an innocent Lee is tricked into going to the TT? Serious question and I need an answer!

He might have been tricked, Greg, or maybe even followed as has already been suggested. I believe Oswald was innocent of any involvement in the murder plot and also believe that at that point realised or suspected he was being set up. If he was picked up it may have been a contigency plan to take further instruction if his cover was at risk. I am really making this shit up as I go along but its difficult to speculate at what really occurred. I think its safe to say that Oswald was at the TSBD for purposes other than to earn a wage. He had his own problems after the president was shot. Perhaps he planned for such an emergency.
February 14, 2015 at 5:41 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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   Terry Martin at February 14, 2015 at 1:02 AM

       Greg at February 13, 2015 at 5:42 PM

       Is there any way an innocent Lee is tricked into going to the TT? Serious question and I need an answer!

   Perhaps you are looking at the situation the wrong direction around. All the dire and sinister trappings of the TT seem to have been added later, some of it much later.

   

   Lee had the afternoon off. What to do? Go buy a Dr.Pepper and sit around his room - in whatever boarding house he may have actually resided - or take in a movie. There's a new Van Heflin flic playing at the TT, so why not?

   

   There was nothing luring him to the TT, only - if Lee's supposition is correct - Reed following him and letting someone know where he was. Perhaps he was not acting antsy, moving and changing seats numerous times, and maybe his countenance was not really frightening to Julia Postal and the boys... well, not until later's retrospection when everything took on dire meaning.

   

   I think Lee was just there to see a film and take his mind off the events of the day and to cogitate on what it might mean to him and his real work at the TSBD. Surely, he must have considered some connection between the assassination and his presence there but he would need some down time to mull it over.

   

   Some people have to be in a still and quiet environment to "think things through clearly" but other people prefer noise and action, something that can occupy their frontal lobes while the good ol neo-cortex can tackle the problem. If the thoughts are too raw and clogged up - chaotic from too many tangles - how better to shut down that portion of the brain by being engaged in watching an action adventure?

   

   I have found it works for me as well, sometimes.

   

   So, just thinking out loud, I don't consider any portion of the authorized version of the TT charade to require LHO being "lured" to the place.

   

Thanks Terry,


I think what you and Lee put forward is very possible.  But I have a specific reason (which may or may not be valid) for thinking he was lured/sent there.


WRT your scenario... was this the first time he had been to the TT --- had he been to the movies at all previously since returning to Dallas? If he had, then if not the TT, where, and why the TT this time?  
February 14, 2015 at 6:19 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
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So, just thinking out loud, I don't consider any portion of the authorized version of the TT charade to require LHO being "lured" to the place.


As much as I respect your opinions Terry, I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. The revolver Oswald allegedly had in his possession inside the Theater was by all likelihood the one used to kill Tippit. However, we have very good reason to believe that he actually didn't have it with him. When taken into account with the evidence that a wallet was discarded within the vicinity of the Tippit murder scene containing ID for Oswald and Hidell (when Oswald's wallet was inside his pants pocket), this indicates that he was framed. In order for that to happen, I think he had to be lured to the Theater. I mean, the conspirators surely wouldn't have depended on luck. Of course, I can't prove any of this, but I firmly believe that this is what the evidence indicates.


February 14, 2015 at 6:19 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Hasan, we can disagree on the issue. Since we're just throwing out ideas, I tossed in mine. We can just as likely throw it out before we come to the resolve. I do not contend any feasibility on probable outcomes and, since I believe you know more about this than I, you're probably right. Certainly, once he was safely in the theater, they could kill Tippit, plant the evidence, and head for the TT even before Oswald's popcorn began to cool. (Although I don't recall if he bought any.) The conspirators most certainly weren't depending entirely on luck by 1pm but they probably knew he was in the theater before Tippit was shot.



Greg, I have no clue if Oswald had been to the TT before. I am not even sure if he was a theater-goer or a fan of Van Heflin. I am not even sure if it was the only theater in the area or the closest.



I do think that if he was lured to the location, it had to be by someone he trusted. And who, I wonder, might that have been? Not Gordon Shanklin or Forrest Sorrells, I am sure, but perhaps our old friend Hosty? I am not married to the chronology Lee put forward but I always prefer to start with the simple solutions.



Once they get a bit more complex, my head starts to hurt. LOL


February 14, 2015 at 7:09 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
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Hasan, we can disagree on the issue. Since we're just throwing out ideas, I tossed in mine. We can just as likely throw it out before we come to the resolve. I do not contend any feasibility on probable outcomes and, since I believe you know more about this than I, you're probably right. Certainly, once he was safely in the theater, they could kill Tippit, plant the evidence, and head for the TT even before Oswald's popcorn began to cool. (Although I don't recall if he bought any.) The conspirators most certainly weren't depending entirely on luck by 1pm but they probably knew he was in the theater before Tippit was shot.


We certainly can disagree, Terry. I have no qualms about that. Some people probably think it would be ludicrous for the conspirators to lure Oswald into the Theater before Tippit was killed, but I don't think it would really matter if the idea was to get the fat tub of shit (Jerry Hill) to pretend to take the revolver off of him during the scuffle, in the hope that the bullets fired at Tippit would be traced back to the revolver.
February 14, 2015 at 7:58 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Question:


If the Adrian Hamby episode at the library was contrived (and I firmly believe it was) why was it contrived?  What purpose did it serve?


P.S. To answer Greg's question about being lured to the Theater then yes, it's possible.  Mr. Lowery was just down the road.  It's also just as possible that he went there of his own free will.
February 14, 2015 at 8:32 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Beowulf
Member
Posts: 179 "Certainly, once he was safely in the theater, they could kill Tippit, plant the evidence, and head for the TT even before Oswald's popcorn began to cool. (Although I don't recall if he bought any...)" -------------------------- Oswald eating popcorn in the TT is like Oswald drinking a coke in the 2nd floor lunchroom, it wrecks the timing of the official narrative. Butch Burroughs told Jim Marrs he sold popcorn to Oswald at 1:15 (the same time Tippit was being shot in the street and/or being pronounced dead in the ER). The fellow Brewer followed into the theater snuck in without buying a ticket or any popcorn. A pity Dallas Police only IDed a handful of the two dozen theater witnesses. It's have be interesting to hear if any had seen Oswald eating popcorn. Another thought, I wonder if Oswald was arrested in possession of anything that had to be disappeared before the official inventory (say, a movie ticket).
--


February 14, 2015 at 8:57 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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February 14, 2015 at 9:07 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

John Mooney
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Any american travelling to or having dealings with Central American may have a touch of the CIAs about them.
February 14, 2015 at 2:45 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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   Lee Farley at February 11, 2015 at 10:18 PM

   That's a pretty neat summation, Redfern.

   

   There is still fertile ground to be ploughed on this issue. To use a phrase that John used to describe the transfer system the spokes of the wheel certainly protrude out from the bus and taxi journey into other areas of the case. The dominoes continue to fall.

   

   I have some key areas that I believe need some focus and attention.

   

   Was there a concerted effort to make it appear Oswald was aboard a bus by instructing certain individuals to be in place so that "evidence" was available or was this story made up on the hop after information was provided to the DPD through an incident of mistaken identity?

   

   Where was Oswald living on 11/22? I am absolutley convinced that he did not live at, or ever step foot inside, 1026 North Beckley and, therefore, his accomodation during this period of time is currently unknown. Greg has a hunch that he was actually living at the Paine house throughout the entire period in question which is plausible. We also have to leave on the table the possibility that he was living at 621 North Marsalis with Mary Bledsoe during this entire period and he did not leave his rented room at this property less than a week after moving in. Another possibility is that he was living at the West Neely house in the lead up to the assassination because, after the hard work that Greg and others have put into looking at the evidence relating to this residence, we certainly know that something dodgy was going on concerning its occupants. The balance of evidence strongly suggests the Oswald's did not live there in late '62 and early '63. The William Whaley taxi ride certainly marries up to a drop off point much closer to Neely Street than any of the other properties in the Oak Cliff area and some of the Secret Service timing exercises used Neely Street as a fixed point when timing the taxi journey. The question is why?

   

   Now I know that Oswald did not take that cab, and I know that Oswald was not on that bus. This is a categorical certainty that is beyond doubt. If the evidence we have amassed was presented to a jury in a trial there is no way that anyone in their right mind could not see what was really going on. The junior counsellors on the Warren Commission knew this too and, I might add, they knew exactly where the details of the real plot lay. They knew what was really going on. Unfortunately, all the hard graft that the junior guys performing the groundwork resulted in was to provide the more senior lawyers and Commission members to opportunity to block the inquiry at the necessary points and keep a lid on the cover up. How do I know this? Simple. Burt Griffin and Leon Hubbert produced this staff memo for the attention of serial-liars Belin and Ball at the point in time that Whaley, McWatters, Markham and Bledsoe were being prepared for testimony:


   

   What did Belin and Ball do with this information? Fuck all. They took it and they buried it. They prepared their witnesses in such a way as to avoid the uncomfortable questions being raised by the likes of Griffin, Hubert, and Redlich. They hid information. They swerved information. They made testimony over complicated by asking convoluted and bizarre questions. They ignored things.  They didn’t ask the right questions; the simple ones. They stopped witnesses dead in their tracks. They lead them. They readied many of them to perjure themselves. This was the most dishonest investigation that took place in the 20th century and when reading the staff memos the level of fraud slaps you in the face.

   

   Hubert and Griffin knew, absolutely knew, that Crafard was involved in this thing and instead of being treated as a suspect, as per Hubert and Redlich’s allegations, Crafard was instead treated like some sort of star witness against his former boss, Jack Ruby.

   

   Another person of interest who we know very little about is the son of Mary Bledsoe, Porter Bledsoe.  Whenever I think about him my spidey-sense goes haywire.  I'm always wary of witnesses who were completely ignored.  Porter Bledsoe was never officially interviewed by any law enforcement group, yet, he was the one we are led to believe made the phone call to the DPD on the afternoon of 11/22 to tell them about his mother's interaction with a "maniacal" laughing boy.  He also sold "evidence" connected to the case in the form of the calendar page containing Oswald's name when he was a tenant at his mother's house.  The DPD and FBI saw fit to interview the guy Porter sold the calendar to, Mike Neibur, but couldn't find the time to have a chat with Porter himself.  We can have a tendency to think of Porter as a kid given how he is described in Mary's testimony but he was a grown man in his 40's.  There is more to Porter than we'll ever be able to discover.  I also believe the "dilapidated house" that was originally an "estate" that Harry Olsen was protecting could possibly be Mary Bledsoe's house and if true we have a jigsaw puzzle that needs putting together with this in mind.

Where is that Bledsoe calendar page now?
Neibur get it back?

Crafard writes down Leona Miller's phone number.
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0042a.htm
This is the same phone number as Davis Sisters had in Nov '63.
So why did these ladies share this Phone with Miller whom called supposedly about waitress jobs.
Sounded more like Miller getting the Davis girls work at Ruby's perhaps?
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.assassination.jfk/vRVcfuqjgso/GRHq5_ti_ucJ

Leona "Lane" address was given as 3786 Northview, Dallas Tx  which is shown as being built in 1959, when Esther and Leona moved to Dallas from Chicago?
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh25/pdf/WH25_CE_2282.pdf
and  Page 108 show Esther Miller is at this address
http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/ruby_jack_activities_nov_22-24_63-jan_1964/ruby_jack_activities_nov_22-24_63-jan_1964.pdf

This shows Esther address was the Northview and Leona resided with her Mother there.
Greg did a search and came up with Leona Miller @ 624 1/2 W 10th and her number was WH 6-9847.

So I thought about Van Gogh Studios and found this...
http://pepperphoto.smugmug.com/

Paul Dusza. My roots in photography go back to when I was a kid. My dad managed the largest home portrait photography studio in Chicago. In 1970 we moved to Dallas and he ran, and ultimately bought, the only remaining franchise of the same company, which was called Van Gogh Studios. At a very early age he would bring home proofs that my sisters and myself would number, and just out of looking at the poses we were taught good poses from bad.





Laughing
All Crafard needs to be made into the perfect dupe for LHO is a MC ring and a stretch band bracelet with LEE on it.

You know they had the cab guy nailed as Crafard.

To 500 Block Beckley at Neely was always odd spot to exit any cab.
Whaley had his passenger get out, go infront of cab, cross the street and continue on down Beckley.
Of course all that changed with the Tippit timing problem.
They had him cross street and head North up to rooming house (Need gun hidden in a five by ten foot space)

Rooming house with a bent curtain rod. Hmm might need to get a new one from Irving.  Laughing Love that picture!!

But the cab to Neely may have something to do with Hill.

Mr. BELIN. At any time up to the time you left, did you ever get any address on the suspect as to where he lived other than the statement of Captain Fritz that he had this address on Fifth Street somewhere in Irving?

Mr. HILL. Paul Bentley called off two addresses. One, as I recall, in Irving, and another one in Oak Cliff, when he was reading from information inside the suspect's billfold. But neither of these addresses was an address on 10th or on Beckley.

As to exactly what they were, I don't recall, as I didn't see the identification.

Mr. BELIN. Would one of them have been an address on Neely Street?

Mr. HILL. It very possibly could be. In fact I believe it was.

Mr. BELIN. To the best of your knowledge, did anyone in the car in which you were riding down to the police station ever mention any Beckley Street address for the suspect?

Mr. HILL. No.

Mr. BELIN. To the best of your knowledge, when the suspect was brought into the police station, up to the time you left him with Captain Fritz there, had anyone mentioned a Beckley Street address?

Mr. HILL. No.


Because Hill blabbed about name being O-S-W-A-L-D to NBC so quickly there is no way they could not have had only the Oswald ID in hand. ie no Hidell.

But here we have Senkel leaving DPD at 2:30 and when he gets to Beckley he checks register for LEE HARVEY OSWALD and HIDELL!!!
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth190228/m1/5/
Senkel here states 17 rooms 16 occupied. Was the empty room Herbert Leon Lee's? We only have 10 or 11 renters listed.
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=486123&imageOnly=true

Where else could LHO be during those days before the assassination. The Paines, Bledsoes, Broke into and was sleeping at empty Neely apt. Was sleeping at empty house next to Paine residence. YMCA.

Roberts supposedly sees Lee bring his clothes to Beckley when he rents the room.
She said it was a service bag or a duffle bag when prompted. or 1 Sea Bag.
We are never show any evidence for the bag that brought the clothes to Beckley.
And when one looks at the list of items taken from Beckley, one may ask if this was a set-up.
LHO would know the first week that the landladies look through renters stuff, imagine what Gladys and Earlene said when they found a Russian Passport, USSR communism book, Russian letters, an FPCC handout!, Worker, Undisireable Discharge letter, and various other magazines, books, and letters as to make LHO into a communist in their eyes. Surprised
However it seems more like an bag Lee had at the Paine garage where he kept such bulk, and it was brought out during the 'half-hour" wait at Irving by police, or the Sea bag was ready to go after Paine has a half hour notice.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1650-001.gif
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/16/1650-002.gif

LHO had his Russian radio (Myduct?) "brown and yellow gold Russian make portable radio" (24H343) at Beckley too...did it even work? Rolling Eyes
He must have wired an North American plug to the cord end.




Beckley Register as it is called at Beckley leaves a lot to be desired from a "registrants" point of view
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/pdf/WH20_JohnsonGladys_Ex_A.pdf




I mean how did Lee get his receipts for the 8 bucks each week?
Did the other boarders get any receipts?
Were any asked about their paperwork, receipts or evidence to show how they did business with the rooming house?


Markham knows Ruby for past two years. Senator too?
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10756&relPageId=566
http://hdblenner.com/dirtylittlecompany.htm

Ed. Ledoux

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:03 pm

Ed Ledoux
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Beowulf at February 11, 2015 at 5:41 AM

Wait, was Markham waiting for McWatters' bus, a later bus on same route, or a bus on a separate route (Beckley, say)? How far was the bus stop from Tippit crime scene? I wonder if bus company was first approached by cops to find Tippit witnesses (the driver himself or anyone he picked up or dropped off near crime scene).

Ah yeah would have been nice to get a report from the drivers of the 11 Hampton and 10 Sunset buses whom stop there on Jefferson. Or the 22 Beckley driver!
Here we had Roberts say LHO was standing at a bus stop by the rooming house and we get a hand draw map!! WTH! what a pitty...

Beowulf, Although Mcwatters bus 30 Marsalis does get close to Helen at Marsalis and Jefferson, it would be the 10 and 11 buses that she would take.
We would need those route cards to see exact times, etc.

February 14, 2015 at 7:31 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

There are only three reasonable answers that explain how Stuart L. Reed managed to take photographs of these buses on Elm Street, one of which would later become part of the official getaway story, and then to be on hand outside the Texas Theater to photograph Oswald's arrest:


1. A fluke of coincidence the likes of which you could not calculate the odds

2. He was following Oswald

3. These were not taken by Stuart L. Reed


There is absolutely no other way to explain this.

Wouldn't you just believe that the FBI made a decision that many of Reed's photographs that he took that day in Dallas weren't pertinent to the assassination. Yeah, right. Therefore they took copies of only ten photos.

Do we have ten in the record? By my estimate we have only eight Reed photographs.


How do we even know that these are Stuart Reed's photos? The FBI didn't even speak to Reed. Do we even know that Reed exists? Where is the chain of evidence for these photographs? What if these photographs were taken by James Powell?

I guess what I'm saying is we are all very quick to identify these photographs as being taken by Stuart Reed when the fact is we know sod all aboiut them or him.

If we are to believe the information relayed to the FBI through his daughter Reed claimed there were photographs of the TSBD building in his collection. Surely he can't have meant the one long shot from Elm St. showing about 1/10th of the building from three blocks away? He said PHOTOGRAPHS


February 14, 2015 at 8:31 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Lee Farley at February 12, 2015 at 12:52 AM

Redfern at February 11, 2015 at 11:40 PM

Lee,

I admit to accepting (perhaps blindly) the official story concerning Oswald residing at 1026 North Beckley. However, the arguments you have presented in recent years mean that there are nagging doubts. I shall have to plough through all the relevant information to re-evaluate just how reliable the Warren narrative is on this issue. There are certainly connections between 1026 and DPD personnel that have been brushed over down the years (as has the story concerning a visit by Ruby).

With regard to any plot to frame Oswald, how essential would it have been to have him residing in Oak Cliff (at least during week-days)?

An other angle that concerns me about Oswald never setting foot in 1026 is that it ramps up the number of people who'd have to lie. Again, I'd have to check, but from memory several people who stayed there described him in detail.

Just how reliable would they turn out to be? Earlene Roberts put her foot in it within days by blurting out the story of the police car at 1 pm. Both her and Gladys Johnson gave affidavits speaking of a further visit by DPD before Oswald was officially identified and well before police supposedly knew of the North Beckley address.

Nevertheless, given the lies elsewhere in the Warren version, nothing can be taken for granted.

As a possible side-note, I am convinced Oswald changed his trousers. As for his shirt, it is possible he changed this too - he had one that was similar in appearance.



Returning to the getaway, the angle that struck me about McWatters was this exchange:



Mr. BALL - What did they tell you?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they told me that they had a transfer that I had issued that was cut for Lamar Street at 1 o'clock, and they wanted to know if I knew anything about it. And I, after I looked at the transfer and my punch, said yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it.


I don't believe anyone other than the bus driver would have been able to deduce the transfer was punched at Lamar Street.

Certain officers within DPD seemed absolutely positive about this evidence and it was sent to Washington in the early hours. If we are to believe Jesse Curry's words on TV, he wasn't apprised of this information until well into the Saturday.



Larry Crafard is obviously worthy of several threads to himself. While it suited the Warren lawyers to cover up any role he had in the assassination, the sheer length of his testimony raises eyebrows. What on earth was that all about?


If any of us can crack the 1026 North Beckley nut we can all pack up and go home because it will be job done, Redfern.

There is absolutley no credible evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald ever lived at that house other than the small box of stuff that law enforcement pulled out of it. Evidence that could have very easily been swapped out with the person's stuff that was actually living there. Why were Hubert and Griffin so convinced that Larry Crafard might have been in William Whaley's cab? I'm sure they didn't pull it out of their backside. In the staff memo they produced, and it wasn't the first they produced that named Larry Crafard as a possible suspect, they link Whaley's knowledge of Ruby together with their own knowledge that Crafard had been mistaken for Oswald by a couple of dozen people. These men weren't idiots and neither were their superiors up the chain of command. They knew the bus ride was bogus and they knew the taxi ride was bogus and they had a handle on the best fit alternative that did fit the evidence they were reviewing. Not one lead concerning the suspicions they raised was followed up. None of the information they said they wanted from Bledsoe, Roberts, Whaley, and McWatters was collected either through interview or testimony. These junior staff lawyers knew in March 1964 what we now know a half a century later. Their work counted for nought because the seniors used their info to make sure how to continue covering shit up.


EDIT: Actually Griffin was as much of a bullshitter as the rest of them because I've just thought on that he was part of the crew that interviewed Earl RUBY and, after writing the staff memo with Hubert, actually delivered some of the WORST questioning that exists in the entire testimony record. Stuff like this:


Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Larry Crafard, did you pay him any money?

Mr. RUBY. Larry Crafard, I think we just gave him a few dollars, $5 maybe because he was broke when he was living on the road, he didn’t have a dime, so I think I gave him some money.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Larry incidentally contact you any time while you were in Detroit?

Mr. RUBY. No, no; I wish he would have, because he hitchhiked all the way down there, and I was driving at the same time, but he didn’t know I lived there, and we--

Mr. GRIFFIN. How was he notified to come to the trial?

Mr. RUBY. I don’t know. If I remember correctly he came on his own. He just thought that when all this came out about, you know, Jack getting him to take that picture of Earl Warren, he had the camera or something, I forgot the full details myself, but he is the one who took the picture, right, if I am not mistaken, and he just thought he should come down to help Jack as much as he possibly could. Could I go a little further?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I don’t really want to pry into this unless this is something you care to reveal.

Mr. RUBY. The most important thing is coming up now; I mean one of the most important things.

Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. I do want to reflect this -- that I don’t want to push you into saying things, talking about subjects that you would rather not talk about, and I realize that this is one of them.


I mean, WTF? You really couldn't make this shit up could you?


My major issue when trying to make sense of this case is the enormity of it. Each segment that you feel you have a handle on suddenly bears a relationship with something else that exists in the record and the segment suddenly balloons. For instance, Mr. and Mrs. Johnson, the owners of 1026 North Beckley, are dodgy as fuck. My research into the Marion Meharg story leads into a series of nuisance phone calls that began plaguing the property in the months after the assassination. Soon after these phone calls Earlene Roberts left her employment there. The caller was asking about a David Miller who, the caller claimed, lived there prior to the assassination and was "Oswalds' friend." Arthur Johnson was overheard talking about this with someone in a coffee shop and was specifically asking the person he was with whether he had ever heard of a David LEON Miller. When the FBI interviewed Johnson he claimed this conversation never took place. Interestingly, David Miller was a pseudonym for David Yaras. The phone calls were put down to a bitterly jealous and somewhat obsessive Marion Meharg who was estranged from his wife and sons after she left him for someone called David Miller whom she married. No interview with Mrs. Miller exists but the FBI did interview her mother who painted Meharg as a deranged lunatic. Coincidently, the mother's name was Bernice CLICK. By another coincidence the neighbours of Arthur and Gladys Johsons were called the Millers. NEVER INTERVIEWED. Not even interviewed when it came to finding out which neighbour had been overheard having a conversation about Jack Ruby parking on their driveway when he went to visit Oswald at the 1026 property.


If an Oswald was living at 1026 North Beckley then it wasn't our Lee Oswald and it certainly wasn't a CIA doppelganger raised from birth to be an Oswald twin. It was someone simply pretending to be him and this is where, I believe, Larry Crafard comes in. It's no coincidence that Jack Ruby met with Bertha Cheek, Earlene Roberts sister, on November 18th, 1963.


I'll say one thing about some of the people who stayed at 1026 North Beckley and were interviewed. They should have gotten their stories straight before trying to convince us about Oswald's residence there. I will not accept that two Mr. LEEs were living at that property at the same time - Mr. O. H. Lee and Mr. H. (LEON) Lee. I do not accept Mr. Herbert Leon Lee's story about sharing a room with James Watson because when James Watson was interviewed he never mentions Mr. Herbert Leon Lee. Mr Herbert Leon Lee says he doesn't remember Lee Oswald living there but that James Watson might and try as I might, I have a really hard time believing that Mr. Herbert Leon Lee left being a floor layer after 30 years to become a Police Officer.


There is a much bigger story to 1026 North Beckley and we haven't yet uncovered it.


You are right about how the police knew it was a transfer from LAMAR. They wouldn't. But as we see in the McWatters testimony it appears that the DPD were telling him what happened rather than the other way around.

A 1956 Station Wagon was owned by Mildred Meharg.Wink
This is a smoking gun right here. Who would have called this in?




Is it BERNIECE OR BERNICE?

Weisberg Collection
FR 4-0072 Dallas: Mrs. Berniece Click, 203 Brodie. (address is off South Beckley)
and
FE 7-5185 Dallas: Mrs. B. K. (Bernice) Click, 905 Barnett St. (Meharg caper).

FBI documnet gives her address as MRS. BERNICE CLICK ~ 905 Barnett

Page 17 is the best!
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20071/71c.pdf




Mabel Berniece Click Born on 10 Mar 1899. Mabel Berniece married Walter Raymond McClellan. She passed away on 11 Mar 1992 in Elkhart, Indiana, USA.








Mildred was married to Marion Meharg
And remarried David Miller
She married to a Jenkins as her daughters are of that name.

Did Mildred have a brother? A Darrell or something like Daryl?

Found a Royce Darrell Click in Harris Tx married Linda Marie Achten could be from '60's.

And these living Darrell Clicks
864-939-2470 - Darrell Click, Hurtsdale Rd, Clinton, South Carolina

218-212-6124 - Darrell Click, SE 8th St, Grand Rapids, Minnesota

910-382-4588 - Darrell Click, State Rd 1142, Jacksonville, North Carolina

203-384-5947 - Darrell Click, Standish St, Bridgeport, Connecticut

417-300-0783 - Darrell Click, N Rock Island Ave, Springfield, Missouri


And deceased Click's

Darrell Click Born: Jun 14, 1950 Deceased: Sep 5, 1997 Location: Amarillo, TX .....(TOO YOUNG IN '63)

William Click Born: Oct 26, 1884 Deceased: Nov, 1967 Location: Dallas, TX (An old cabbie with middle/nickname of Darrell maybe?)Smile









This made me do adouble take, though not relavent.

LANSING - Mrs. Joyce Rash Bledsoe, 59, the wife of Darrell Click Bledsoe, died Wednesday at Forsyth Memorial Hospital.




Okay if we find Darrell Click we have made history!!


Here is the other mystery name, J A Brourantus

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/7/


February 14, 2015 at 9:56 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Hasan Yusuf at February 14, 2015 at 6:19 AM

So, just thinking out loud, I don't consider any portion of the authorized version of the TT charade to require LHO being "lured" to the place.


As much as I respect your opinions Terry, I'm afraid I can't agree with you here. The revolver Oswald allegedly had in his possession inside the Theater was by all likelihood the one used to kill Tippit. However, we have very good reason to believe that he actually didn't have it with him. When taken into account with the evidence that a wallet was discarded within the vicinity of the Tippit murder scene containing ID for Oswald and Hidell (when Oswald's wallet was inside his pants pocket), this indicates that he was framed. In order for that to happen, I think he had to be lured to the Theater. I mean, the conspirators surely wouldn't have depended on luck. Of course, I can't prove any of this, but I firmly believe that this is what the evidence indicates.



I think Oswald was "lured" to the shoestore by Brewer.
I bet he called and said he had a shoe sale going on. I mean Brewer had to pay for that new car somehow, right.
But when Oswald came by and saw the high prices through the window he freaked out running away from Brewer and hiding in the Theater.
Oswald was heard as they dragged him away saying that yes yes I killed whom ever you say just get me away from that shoe salesman, or words to that effect. Witnesses at the scene saw several others hiding in the balcony from Brewer but they were escorted out the back and driven downtown where the real deals on classic footwear are and you can get a shoppers transfer even if you didn't ride a bus!

February 15, 2015 at 12:42 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Beowulf at February 13, 2015 at 6:53 AM

I'm curious, could have Oswald have taken bus directly to TT? Did Marsalis bus (McWatters's bus presumably) or the Beckley bus have a stop near Texas Theatre? It'd certainly tie up loose ends if Oswald was given a ride from Dealey Plaza to TT by Officer Tippit but I don't think the timing works (Tippit was seen, alone, in the Gloco gas station parking lot at 12:40).

I think Oswald was involved in something, he didn't really act like an innocent man would. Of course it could be he wasn't involved in the assassination but was involved in gun running, drug smuggling or something equally felonious that a murder investigation might stumble over. Once he had a lawyer he would have been advised that coming clean might land him jail for a few years but would save him from the electric chair. Then again maybe he was the lookout whose job was to get the shooting team on and off the elevator without a fuss. There's no telling.

Beowulf asking questions like that will never get you a seat on the Warren Commission. Very Happy
I mean who would think that LHO may have gone by way of bus....oh wait the cops thought he did go as far as the beckley rooming house by bus at least initially.
Then he was Whaley'd back in time to Beckley , then "Headed" to Jefferson and Marsalis or Transfer Point 7 and perhaps would catch the Ramona inbound bus.
But hey we figured all that nonsense out.

Oswald could have taken a Hampton or Sunset bus from Downtown to the TT.
He would have to transfer, if on the Marsalis bus at Jefferson. Or just walk to the TT from Jefferson and Marsalis after getting off a bus.

But the only bus that may have been on time was the bus infront of Cecils, which was perhaps the Beckley bus. Or vice versa.

So no easy answer how we get LHO to the TT by bus and a transfer on him for the Lakewood/Marsalis.

I think the Gloco parking lot Tippit sighting has problems. He is not supposed to be in that area at 12:40, everyone of the employees changed their story.
And if anyone is running guns or drugs it would be a cop with connections.

If it was LHO's job to secure elevators for the hit team, he did a poor job. Although whom could secure both elevators at the time of the assassination?
I doubt anyone had to escape since that rifle was not fired from that window. If they did escape it had to be on the West elevator and timed to just miss Truly and Baker.

I always though it odd the 3 boys hid in the book bins so that when Baker ran by the only thing that was visible was his helmet.
Seems the boys were right there then at the perfect moment to see whom went down in the west elevator.
They mentioned nothing! Was it Dougherty just working away? Was it a fellow whom was with the Tan Jaket Man?
Were they planting evidence or actually firing weapons? Were there firecrackers thrown from the building? Maybe?
But did Oswald ride the bus and go to the movies?
We might be able to say no he did get a ride, Paine was at dentist with daughter and was home when DPD arrived so she was fully capable of making a stop to drive LHO to TT or rooming house.
It is 3 miles by foot to Beckley then about another mile to TT. 4-5 miles is walkable in an hour.

From Mark Lane Testimony,

The first statement made by Mr. Wade in reference to the taxi driver who he alleged---he, Wade, alleged took Oswald generally from this scene, indicated that the driver's name was Daryl Click.

Now, that statement was not made in the first hours of the arrest. That statement was not made until after Chief Curry had announced to the press in Dallas, on that day, November 24th that the case was closed, there would be no further investigation--Oswald was the assassin, he had acted alone, he was then dead. And as a result of the change in policy, to reopen the case and have Mr. Wade assume a position in front of the radio and television microphones and cameras of the Nation, on that evening November 24, Mr. Wade then presented what he said was the evidence "for you piece by piece." And part of the evidence which he had secured was the proof that a taxi driver named Daryl Click drove Oswald roughly from the scene to his home, to Oswald's home.

When I was in Dallas--I suppose this was on January 2d, my first trip there in reference to this matter--I spoke with a Mr. Roseboro of the Teamsters Union--they have organized the taxi drivers in Dallas--and asked him if he knew--if he could give me any information about a Daryl Click. He said he did not have the name in his files. but Texas being a right-to-work law State, it is possible, he said, that Mr. Click was a driver but not a member of that union. He referred me to the personnel department of the City Transportation Co., which he told ,he was the one company monopoly running all the taxis in Dallas.

I spoke with the City Transportation Co. personnel office, Mr. Pott, as I recalled, who checked the records, and indicated to me that there was no Daryl Click who drove a taxi in Dallas.

Some time after Mr. Wade stated that Daryl Click was the taxi driver, he then stated that a person by the name of William Whaley was the taxi driver who took Oswald from the scene after he left the bus to his home.


And then, hold your gum, this dooozey!

I would refer you to his story by Hugh Ainsworth in the Dallas Morning News published during the first week after the assassination. Hugh Ainsworth and Larry Grove published on November 28 in the Dallas Morning News--this is headed "Oswald Planned To Ride By Scene"--in which there are statements from the busdriver that--named C. J. McWatters, in which Mr. McWatters indicates that Oswald entered the bus at Elm and Griffin, and further indicates that the bus was going to go seven blocks further west and turn at Houston Street, exactly the scene of the assassination, or at least the scene of the Texas Book Depository. So Oswald traveled somehow some seven blocks in order to secure a bus which is going to take him back to the place that he left.

Now, although I have talked to Mr. Ainsworth, and he tells me that the story is absolutely correct, and he questioned Mr. McWatters quite thoroughly, and he will so testify, I believe, if he is asked--Mr. Ainsworth will--and the affidavit which Mr. McWatters signed, or which the busdriver signed, he does not state that Oswald walked seven blocks and was going to get on a bus which was going to take him back. Indeed, he states that he picked him up about Elm and Houston Street, at the Book Depository Building. But the busdriver indicates that that story in his affidavit is not true. He indicated that after the affidavit was drawn and signed by him.

Mr. RANKIN. What did you say was not true, Mr. Lane--which part of it?

Mr. LANE. The affidavit. Mr. McWatters indicates that the affidavit in which-- let me start that again.

There is an affidavit from the busdriver, which I am sure you have, which shows that according to his statement Oswald came into the bus at Elm and Houston Street. However, the busdriver since that time has indicated that Oswald came into the bus seven blocks from Elm and Houston Street, and had entered a bus which was going to take him to Elm and Houston Street, Elm and Houston Street of course is the location of the Book Depository Building.

Mr. RANKIN. Now, when you say since that time he has indicated that, you mean to you or to someone else?

Mr. LANE. To those two reporters for the Dallas Morning News with whom I discussed--one of them--I discussed this specifically. And he said that every word in that story is absolutely accurate, that he went to see the busdriver, and had a prolonged interview with him, and went over this in great detail with him. I think these two reporters will testify as to what the busdriver told them in their interview with him.

Mr. RANKIN. But they have not published this later story that you are telling about.

Mr. LANE. Yes, they have. That is the date that I gave you. The Dallas Morning News, on Thursday, November 28, under the headline. "Oswald Planned To Ride By Scene".

Mr. RANKIN. Do you want to leave that with us? Laughing

Mr. LANE. I wonder if copies can be made of everything.

Mr. RANKIN. Yes.

Mr. LANE. Then I will be happy to leave it.

Mr. RANKIN. The story you were just referring to in the Dallas Morning News is Commission Exhibit 343.

(The document referred to was marked Commission Exhibit No. 343 for identification and received in evidence.)

Mark Lane had a lot of evidence the DPD, Curry and Wade wanted to go away.

After Ruby had killed Oswald, D.A. Wade made a statement about Oswald’s movements following the assassination. He explained that Oswald had taken a bus, but he described the point at which Oswald had entered the vehicle as seven blocks away from the point located by the bus driver in his affidavit. Oswald, Wade continued, then took a taxi driven by a Daryll Click, who had signed an affidavit. An inquiry at the City Transportation Company revealed that no such taxi driver had ever existed in Dallas. Presented with this evidence, Wade altered the driver’s name to William Whaley. The driver’s log book showed that a man answering Oswald’s description had been picked up at 12:30. The President was shot at 12:31. D.A. Wade made no mention of this. Wade has been D.A. in Dallas for 14 years and before that was an F.B.I. agent. How does a District Attorney of Wade’s great experience account for all the extraordinary changes in evidence and testimony which he has announced during the Oswald case? ~16 Questions on the Assassination By Bertrand Russell


Marion Meharg' sister.

Loretta Christine Avery (born Meharg), 1919-2001

Loretta Christine Avery (born Meharg) was born on month day 1919, at birth place, Texas, to John Benjamie Meharg and Nancy (Nannie) Ann Meharg (born Counts).

John was born on January 14 1877, in Athens Texas, United States.

Nancy was born on June 19 1885, in Hunt County, Texas, United States.

Loretta had 3 siblings: Annie Bea Burns (born Meharg) and 2 other siblings.

Loretta married James M Avery on month day 1940, at age 21 at marriage place, Texas.

James was born on June 30 1919, in Arkansas.

They had 2 children.

Loretta lived in 1935, at address.

Loretta passed away on month day 2001, at age 82 at death place, Texas.







Ohh power just went out for a second. better post this while I can.



February 15, 2015 at 3:19 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
Moderator
Posts: 1411

I think Oswald was "lured" to the shoestore by Brewer.

I bet he called and said he had a shoe sale going on. I mean Brewer had to pay for that new car somehow, right.

But when Oswald came by and saw the high prices through the window he freaked out running away from Brewer and hiding in the Theater.

Oswald was heard as they dragged him away saying that yes yes I killed whom ever you say just get me away from that shoe salesman, or words to that effect. Witnesses at the scene saw several others hiding in the balcony from Brewer but they were escorted out the back and driven downtown where the real deals on classic footwear are and you can get a shoppers transfer even if you didn't ride a bus!


I contend that what you posit is much more feasible than what the Warren Commission tried to stuff down our throats

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:16 pm

Greg
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Posts: 2048

How does a person who doesn't exist, manage to have a nickname????

"I note too that Click's nickname was "Bo"....

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Verb%20Hal%201967/Item%2033.pdf
February 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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Posts: 1143

Hasan Yusuf at February 15, 2015 at 7:56 AM

I think Oswald was "lured" to the shoestore by Brewer.

I bet he called and said he had a shoe sale going on. I mean Brewer had to pay for that new car somehow, right.

But when Oswald came by and saw the high prices through the window he freaked out running away from Brewer and hiding in the Theater.

Oswald was heard as they dragged him away saying that yes yes I killed whom ever you say just get me away from that shoe salesman, or words to that effect. Witnesses at the scene saw several others hiding in the balcony from Brewer but they were escorted out the back and driven downtown where the real deals on classic footwear are and you can get a shoppers transfer even if you didn't ride a bus!


I contend that what you posit is much more feasible than what the Warren Commission tried to stuff down our throats Very Happy

Ed,


Interesting theory you got there.


It may also explain Oswald's rather bizarre foot fetish. Once in custody, he was telling everyone about getting shoes for Babie Junie. Paine, Marina, his mom, his brother, and probably half the DPD.


And the devilish Brewer was preventing him from satisfying his obsession.


This plot is really starting to cook!
February 15, 2015 at 10:00 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

The coincidence of Lowery the publicised FBI informant shoe store manager on Jefferson is almost too strong to ignore for me.
February 15, 2015 at 11:07 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

steely dan
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Posts: 1013

Greg at February 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM

How does a person who dosn't exist, manage to have a nickname????

"I note too that Click's nickname was "Bo"....

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Verb%20Hal%201967/Item%2033.pdf

How about Harvey as a nickname for a person that doesn't exist. But if the nickname catches on.......
February 15, 2015 at 11:16 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Watch,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz_5KLrvBLk



Wade is telling about the cab, he says that LHO got off the bus and caught a cab, in Oak Cliff....
Wade says it again....Oak Cliff
I hear Oak Cliff both times clearly.

This is where the Darryll Click story supposedly starts when Wade said Oak Cliff the newspaper transcribed it as Daryll Click.
Or that is the story.

Sinister connotations were evoked by the attribution to the district attorney of the statement that a taxicab driver named Darryl Click drove Oswald from downtown Dallas to the area of his roominghouse in Oak Cliff. It has been correctly ascertained that no such taxicab driver existed in Dallas. On the other hand, the district attorney, who was quoted in a newspaper transcript as making the statement, never made the statement nor did any one else. Audio tapes of the district attorney's press conference make clear that the person who transcribed the conference rendered a reference to the "Oak Cliff" area of Dallas as a person, "Darryl Click". This error in transcription is the sole source for the existence of a "Darryl Click" as a taxicab driver. ~warren Report

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x59Y_Ok5aH4



The part where Wade metions the taxi ride is unique in that he has the information that LHO took a taxi in Oak Cliff but did not have/give the drivers name or where LHO went to, ie his address in Daryl Click...err I mean Oak Cliff (sorry, transcription error). Rolling Eyes

Still a bit vauge on details. Of course as the book says, before this that Curry and the DPD were told by the FBI not to discuss the matter further once LHO was killed. The DPD then withheld evidence from Wade and would no longer provide any information to Wade or anyone but the FBI.

I think these are the key parts of the Daryl Click caper.

Curry was pretty forthcoming to the press on most matters before Ruby made his move to silence Oswald.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tjgH8o4Adw
Highlights are @
1:15 Curry doesn't know how LHO got to Oak Cliff
4:20 Communist literature in english. (How droll, true communists only read cyrillic script.)
5:00 He still doesn't know about a bus or a cab when asked! Says picked up by Negro in a Car.
28:00 'rifle was returned under a different name'



February 15, 2015 at 3:15 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Greg at February 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM

How does a person who dosn't exist, manage to have a nickname????

"I note too that Click's nickname was "Bo"....

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Verb%20Hal%201967/Item%2033.pdf

Greg

Bo is the perfect fit.
So Wade knows of a Bo Click whom drove LHO to his home, no address given wink wink, and thinks he is a cabbie.
Okay maybe Bo Click was not a Dallas cabbie, maybe Irving as Mark Lane asked, and or was not a cab driver at all but did give a ride to Oswald.

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=20304274
Delano "Bo" Click

March 13, 1967 Irving Daily News from Irving, Texas · Page 1

"The Irving men were Tracy *D (Bo) Click, 2201 W. Irving Blvd., and Ronald G. Smith, 1815 Morgan. The Dallasltes were William F. Hodges and Ben F. Slaughter."- http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/50783476/





Evelyn J. CLICK et al., Petitioners, v. THURON INDUSTRIES, INC., et al., Respondents. No. B-2504. Supreme Court of Texas. January 12, 1972. Appeal from the District Court No. 134, Dallas County, Long, J. Parnass, Browning, Riddles Clement, James G. Clement, Irving, Byrd, Davis, Eisenberg Clark, Tom Davis and Don L. Davis, Austin, for petitioners. Coke Coke, Kenneth L. King and Patrick E. Higginbotham, Dallas, for respondents.

DENTON, Justice. This suit for damages for wrongful death was brought by the widow and three minor children of Tracy D. Click, who was alleged to have been killed in the crash of a private airplane piloted by an employee of respondents. The crash occurred near Jefferson City, Missouri on March 12, 1967.

Suit was filed on June 19, 1968 in the District Court of Dallas County. Upon motion of both parties, the district court took judicial notice of applicable laws of the State of Missouri. The defendants below filed their motion for summary judgment on the ground the action for wrongful death was barred by the Missouri Statute of Limitations. This motion was sustained, and the court of civil appeals affirmed. Tex.Civ.App., 460 S.W.2d 506. We affirm the judgments of the courts below.

See Click plane crash 3/12/67.

3/12/67 Curious press treatment of plane crash in bad weather at Jefferson City, MO, which killed four Dallas businessmen, including one Tracy D. Click, of Irving. AP carried only the original plane crash story. Dallas Morning News carried no story at all [although it carried other plane crashes, even one abroad, but did carry death notice in classified ad columns for one of the men, not Click. Dallas Morning News & AP

Dallas Times-Herald not checked, not available.

The name Tracy D. Click is interesting because District Attorney Henry Wade first said Darrell Click was the name of the taxi-driver who took Oswald toward his home on 11/22/63. Wade later said the driver's name was William Whaley, and that he had said "Oak Cliff" when reporters thought he said Darrell Click.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:_EiJsG0xKFUJ:jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%2520Materials/Warren%2520Commission-Subject/Miscellaneous.doc+&cd=3&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Neutral Wow!

November 18, 1964 The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas · Page 2
"The Irving Daily News Texan (Irving, Texas), Wednesday, November 18, 1964, ... 20, at the Holiday Inn W'est, Bo Click, sales manager for Ray Juneau, has ..." - www.newspapers.com/newspage/51477902/


http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/Irving_High_School_Lair_Yearbook/1965/Page_276.html
Bo Click is top row second from left.
February 15, 2015 at 5:01 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Greg at February 15, 2015 at 9:37 AM

How does a person who dosn't exist, manage to have a nickname????

"I note too that Click's nickname was "Bo"....

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/V%20Disk/Verb%20Hal%201967/Item%2033.pdf

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/White%20Assassination%20Clippings%20Folders/Miscellaneous%20Folders/Miscellaneous%20II/Misc%20II-098.pdf

Click is survived by his wife, Jeanene and three children.



Amazing how many Clicks there are and Bo Clicks even
704-603-2079 - Bo Click, Wiltshire Pl, Salisbury, North Carolina


Many folks did part time shifts driving buses and cabs to make ends meet. Could Bo Click have been a short timer at a cab company till he found better paying jobs. Very possible!

"The time was approximately 12:40 p.m. I had just turned the Rowlands over to Lummy Lewis when I met E. R. (Buddy) Walthers, a small man with a very arrogant manner. He was, without a doubt, Decker‘s favorite pupil. He wore dark-rimmed glasses and a small-brimmed hat because effecting them meant that he would resemble Bill Decker. Walthers had worked for the Yellow Cab Company of Dallas before coming to the Sheriff‘s Office, about a year before I began working there. His termination from the cab company was the result of several shortages of money. He came to the Sheriff‘s Department as a patrolman but because of his close connection with Justice of the Peace Bill Richburg—one of Decker‘s closest allies—Buddy soon was promoted to detective. He had absolutely no ability as a law enforcement officer. However, he was fast climbing the ladder of success by lying to Decker and squealing on his fellow officers." - http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/WTKaP.html


City Cab Company in Irving 1962
http://cityofirving.org/DocumentCenter/View/6719
"Pop" S.T. Coleman ran City Cab till retired in 1962 and passed away in '64

Transfer of the City Cab Company's taxi permit to the Irving Transportation Company has been authorized by the city commission. S. T. Coleman, 83-year-oId ... ~September 16, 1962 The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas · Page 1
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/62238344/

October 19, 1964 The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas · Page 1
http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/51464497/
...1962, and in June, 1963, he was afflicted with internal bleeding and anemia. At that ... and operators of the town's taxi service, Irving Transportation Company.



The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas · Page 11 www.newspapers.com/newspage/51467782/
The Irving Daily News Texan (Irving, Texas), Saturday, September 14, 1963, Page 11. ... taxi drivers Male or Female CITY CAB CO. Apply ln ....

They were looking for drivers in September '63.

February 15, 2015 at 6:23 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Man are you on a roll or what?


I assume Jeunene was Evelyn J Click.


But having just listened to it, I also hear "Oak Cliff" both times, but I'd concede there is some chance the first one is "Bo Click".
February 15, 2015 at 7:08 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

I also hear Oak Cliff.


Best not get me started on Mark Lane again.


The more I think about how close he was to the James Markham situation and the lack of investigative work that went into it, even though Lane was initially shouting about it from the rooftops, the more I find the guy suspect.
February 15, 2015 at 8:50 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

http://media.nara.gov/dc-metro/rg-272/605417-key-persons/miller_david/miller_david.pdf ; Page # 14

Click has a teen age girl, Sondra Kaye Damron living with her (1964)

http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=1&msT=1&gss=ms_r_f-2_s&gsfn=Kaye+Lynn&gsln=Damron&msbdy=&msbpn__ftp=&msddy=&msdpn__ftp=&cpxt=0&catBucket=p&uidh=000&cp=0


http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:6Jw7uPGcSWIJ:www.mocavo.com/Sondra-Damron-Texas-Birth-Record-Index-1926-1995/16112822012212841498+&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Doubt this is her, Born in 1942. This candidate for our Sondra would be 22 in 1964 not exactly a teen.

Meharg advised that his former wife’s brother in law, Robert N. Walker, resides in Irving, Texas, at 2314 Concord Drive.

Search Results



The Irving Daily News Texan from Irving, Texas · Page 9 www.newspapers.com/newspage/56138646/
Ruffian Roan, 2024 E, Irving Blvd. BL3-3478; yard signs, Robert N, Walker, 2314 Concord, BL3-8100; headquarters worker, Balford Morrison, 521 Sandra, ...
Sounds political!!

Irving Daily News from Irving, Texas · Page 8 www.newspapers.com/newspage/44056152/
Display fixtures & cabinets. 476* Memphis Sf., BL3-8100 * BRICK WORK; additions, repairs, flower boxes also specialty items, call 252-6438 C4 Serviee, Parts, ...

His business, home repairs?

Irving Daily News from Irving, Texas · Page 11 www.newspapers.com/newspage/51042590/
Jan 25, 1970 - ... CONTRACTORS NEW-REMODEL-REPAIR CUSTOM CABINETS BL3-8100 REMODEL, REPAIR, garage conversion; old 4 new construction ...


Not much to Walker other than he was letting Meharg stay there.




February 15, 2015 at 9:36 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

The more I think about how close he was to the James Markham situation


Might have some good news down the track on this situation...
February 15, 2015 at 9:53 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

[ The bus transfer ticket is Exhibit 381-A. It's in Volume 16 p. 974. There is no exhibit 381. ]

This Transfer should have been entered into evidence since it was in the room in front of Cecil, and been marked McWatters Exhibit 381
Instead we have CE 381a the copy they used for the rest of Cecils testimony.
Isn't that a bait and switch tatic.
WHY not let Cecil handle the original transfer?
Worried he may wrinkle it?
They sure were not concerned with fingerprints!
Oh 381 you are a wiley devil


http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/McWatters%20Cecil/Item%2002.pdf






Bus Man had a fan club!

Wonder if Harry Holmes opened it first Laughing

YOU NEXT
MAYBE



Note Bus Crash article below

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:39 pm

Ed Ledoux
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John Mooney at February 13, 2015 at 6:21 PM


So Stuart L Reed was over on the sidewalk facing Lamar where it looks like that bus is pulled far right before the Lamar intersection thusly it is at or near the Bus Stop for Lamar and Elm where someone with a transfer or 23 cents could get on there.
Thanks John!



February 15, 2015 at 11:38 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

John Mooney
Member
Posts: 48

I think the bus is at the N Lamar junction.


In the latter day picture you can see the Crowne Plaza hotel, that was built in 1966.

In front of it is a old building with a sloping gable end which I believe is in both pictures.

The medium height one with the peeling whit wall.
February 16, 2015 at 9:56 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

https://secure.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=115103490
David Leon Miller

Was this the Shine and Press guy? or our DLM?

Birth: May 26, 1909

Death: Jul. 28, 1988 Dallas County Texas, USA



Burial: Shearith Israel Cemetery Dallas Dallas County Texas, USA





Dallas and Irving transportation



October 3, 1963: LHO checks in at the YMCA. Later in the day, he files a claim at the employment office.





October 4, 1963: LHO applies for work at Padgett Printing Co. He makes a favorable impression, but is not hired because of poor references. Later, he telephones Marina and asks for a ride to Ruth Paine's home and is denied. He hitchhikes the 12 miles to Ruth's house. (Yates, Small)





October 7, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to the bus station, and he returns to Dallas to look for work. Later, LHO obtains a room at 621 Marsalis

The CHAIRMAN - Thank you.

Mr. JENNER - How long did he remain in your home on this visit?

Mrs. PAINE - Until Monday morning, the 7th of October, almost noon, in fact, when I took him to an Intercity bus at the Irving bus station.

Mr. JENNER - This is that bus terminal approximately 3 miles from your home?

Mrs. PAINE - That same day I gave him a map to assist him in job hunting.

Mr. JENNER - All right. I would like to get to that. I show you what is in evidence, I don't know whether it is received or not; it is a Commission Exhibit No. 128

Mr. JENNER - Do you know what the busfare is from Dallas to Irving?

Mrs. PAINE - No; I don't.






October 12, 1963: LHO advised his landlady Bledsoe that he was leaving for the weekend, and she stated that she didn't want him to return. LHO went to Ruth's for the weekend. (Has BWF give him a rdie to Irving?)





October 14, 1963: Ruth drives LHO to Dallas, where he later registers as O.H. Lee at a new rooming house on North Beckley. Later, Ruth mentions to a group of neighbors that LHO is having trouble finding work. One of the ladies, Linnie Mae Randle, mentioned a possible opening at the Texas School Book Depository; and when LHO calls the Paine home that evening, Ruth informs him of the opening. (After Ruth called Truly)





October 15, 1963: LHO applies at the TSBD and is hired.





October 16, 1963: LHO begins work at the TSBD. (Goes by bus daily?)





October 18, 1963: LHO receives a ride from Buell Frazier to the Paine home, where a surprise birthday party is waiting for him.





October 20, 1963: Marina gives birth to Audrey Marina Rachel Oswald. (As Lee Farley has pointed out there is no mention by Gladys Johnson)





October 23, 1963: LHO attends a right-wing rally where General Walker is a speaker. (How by Bus?)





October 25, 1963: Michael Paine and LHO attend a meeting of the ACLU. (Michael drives him? Where does he drop him after?)





October 29, 1963: FBI agent James Hosty makes inquiries in the Paine's neighborhood regarding LHO. (Mrs. Roberts)

So we have a Hitchhiking LHO and some interesting transportation issues.


CBS Nelson Benton reports, listen at 13:55, that LHO took a bus to his apt, changed, and took a cab to the building.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4A3cF2-52A&index=4&list=PLPpNRGOLAlsdIARgRhMsH6svPBWWwCGGh
AND The yet unknown, not named Bus and Cab drivers were in the hall.


And this i find MOST curious

Mr. JENNER - Now the same question with respect to clothing for himself, for Marina, and for June and Rachel. You have told us about the one instance in which he gave Marina some money to buy shoes for June, which was----

Mrs. PAINE - No, the shoes were for Marina.

Mr. JENNER - Were for Marina, and this had occurred during the week of the assassination?

Mrs. PAINE - Our plan was to go out on Friday afternoon, the 22d of November, to buy these shoes. Just when he gave her the money, I am not certain. And these, of course, were not bought. I can think of nothing that was bought. Yes, one thing. When she was with me in the spring, late April to the 9th of May, she had some money from Lee for her own expenses, and she used a portion of this, I would think a rather large portion, buying a pair of maternity shorts, or they may have been Bermuda shorts, longer than that, slacks, even, possibly, but I know they cost nearly $5, and this was quite a large expenditure and quite a thrill. These were bought in Irving.

Very Happy Brewer is in it up to his eye balls I tell you!!!
February 17, 2015 at 12:02 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Ed wrote:

"October 18, 1963: LHO receives a ride from Buell Frazier to the Paine home, where a surprise birthday party is waiting for him."


This is one detail where Ruth Paine nearly fucked herself up royally. It is not clear whether he came home this weekend for a "birthday party" because this weekend was the weekend that Marina went into labor.



Mr. JENNER - Do you know how he returned to Dallas that following morning, that is the 22d?

Mrs. PAINE - Probably went with Wesley also.

Mr. JENNER - And he came out the following weekend, did he?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes. That was his birthday.

Mr. JENNER - The 18th of October is his birthday. Did you have a party for him?

Mrs. PAINE - We had a cake; yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER - Was that weekend uneventful?

Mrs. PAINE - Well, Marina was already home.

Mr. JENNER - The baby was now home. She came home very quickly?

Mrs. PAINE - Very quickly, a day and a half. She was home on Tuesday, the 16th, is that right-- skipped a day, the 22d. So that his party was the week before, too. I was wrong then.


Bullshitter.
February 17, 2015 at 12:38 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Ed said:

And this i find MOST curious

Mr. JENNER - Now the same question with respect to clothing for himself, for Marina, and for June and Rachel. You have told us about the one instance in which he gave Marina some money to buy shoes for June, which was----

Mrs. PAINE - No, the shoes were for Marina.

Mr. JENNER - Were for Marina, and this had occurred during the week of the assassination?

Mrs. PAINE - Our plan was to go out on Friday afternoon, the 22d of November, to buy these shoes. Just when he gave her the money, I am not certain. And these, of course, were not bought. I can think of nothing that was bought. Yes, one thing. When she was with me in the spring, late April to the 9th of May, she had some money from Lee for her own expenses, and she used a portion of this, I would think a rather large portion, buying a pair of maternity shorts, or they may have been Bermuda shorts, longer than that, slacks, even, possibly, but I know they cost nearly $5, and this was quite a large expenditure and quite a thrill. These were bought in Irving.

Very Happy Brewer is in it up to his eye balls I tell you!!!


Brewer wasn't the only shoe salesman of interest on Jefferson Boulevard. There was a much more interesting one a couple of blocks west.
February 17, 2015 at 12:42 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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http://americanradiohistory.com/Archive-BC/BC-1964/1964-09-28-BC.pdf

Daryl Click or Darrell Click was simply an mis-heard word, or two, Oak Cliff being transcribed as Daryl Click.
Yes?
So is it a surprise that Ball asked Whaley about a driver whom never existed.
Hmmm?





Mr. BALL. Do you know a taxi driver named Darrell Click?



Mr. WHALEY. I may know his face, sir, but not his name.



Mr. BALL. You don't know his name?



Mr. WHALEY. We go mostly by numbers.



Does Ball ask what number Whaley thinks Darrell Click used???? Not a chance!!

Mr. BALL. Okay, no further questions. The witness is excused. Rolling Eyes





February 17, 2015 at 1:34 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/odell_j.htm

COUNTY OF DALLAS SHERIFF'S DEPARTMENT SUPPLEMENTARY INVESTIGATION REPORT



Information (from; J.G. Odell/Res. 709 N Madison ST. WH 8 8538)



11-23-63



I talked to the above subject by phone and he stated that he thinks that the subject who is in custody on the murder of the president rode the same bus with him to Oak Cliff about 10 minutes after the parade was over. He saw the picture on T.V. of Lee Oswald. He rode the Bishop bus which he caught near H.L. Greens. He said the man got on somewhere near Poydras St. and said " The president has been shot and the governor has been killed". He then sat down and didn't say anything else. He said the subject was wearing a dark felt hat and a dark coat. He said the subject got off before the bus got to Bishop St. but he doesn't know exactly where.

I told the complainant that we would call him if we needed him any further.



Elkins

Wink If he did see LHO it may explain a transfer. Or it may explaine the inflated story McWatters later told as compared with his affidavit.

The old Odell thread. Odell was a neighbor to the 602 Elsbeth, 214 W. Neely (very close!), 1026 Beckley addresses.
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18372

The Bishop Bus #4 would travel along all the same points downtown as the Ramona or Marsalis.

This man rode that bus that day.
The bus that would have had LHO as a rider when he "lived' on 214 W. Neely St.
He, Odell, rode a bus very near the Beckley rooming house to his residence at 709 N Madison Ave. (Not Street)
He Odell was never contacted again, but Bledsoe was?Laughing

February 19, 2015 at 8:52 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Bishop bus #4 crosses Neely in the 400 block
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1139&relPageId=802

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:53 pm

Ed Ledoux
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The bus story that is a full crock is the Walker shooting by bus. Laughing
Marina has LHO studying maps and bus schedules, "calculating" something.
Like how he is going to carry a rifle on a bus and then transfer to another bus with said rifle... oy vey

But we have another bus rider with interesting connections
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=140868
http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/pdf/WH19_Armstrong_Ex_5310_A-G.pdf
Note address would have to be DIXON Cir.

Odell was right!
Subject was wearing a hat and dark jacket!



I'm a smartass &



February 19, 2015 at 9:43 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Another interesting point about the rifle on the bus is Marina saying Lee used to wrap rifle in his over coat.

Whooops, what overcoat? She said he had two jackets, one grey and one blue... where did the overcoat come from?
Where is the overcoat?


"Oswald’s personally-owned and -worn long double-breasted raincoat issued by the United States Marine Corps, dark green, size 38R, stenciled inside the collar area, “L. H. Oswald.” His name is also stenciled inside the belt, which is included. In fine condition. Accompanied by a certificate of authenticity from University Archives and notarized letter from Robert L. Oswald, in part: “Lee wore this coat during the period of time from his enlistment in 1956 until his discharge in September 1959. Before leaving for Europe in September 1959, Lee left this very coat with me in my Fort Worth home.” An outstanding piece with impeccable provenance, this is the only clothing officially issued to Oswald we have offered. RR Auction COA." https://rrauctions.wordpress.com/2014/02/24/lee-harvey-oswald-government-issue-marine-corp-raincoat/


February 19, 2015 at 10:01 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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JC White is another bus/cabbie to cop recruit. He might have known Cecil even.

Mr. BALL. And what did you do?

Mr. WHITE. Went to driving a city bus.

Mr. BALL. How long did you drive a city bus?

Mr. WHITE. 6 years.

Mr. BALL. Then what did you do?

Mr. WHITE. Joined the Police Department.

Mr. BALL. How long ago?

Mr. WHITE. 1956.



February 20, 2015 at 12:13 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Lee Farley at February 17, 2015 at 12:38 AM

Ed wrote:

"October 18, 1963: LHO receives a ride from Buell Frazier to the Paine home, where a surprise birthday party is waiting for him."


This is one detail where Ruth Paine nearly fucked herself up royally. It is not clear whether he came home this weekend for a "birthday party" because this weekend was the weekend that Marina went into labor.



Mr. JENNER - Do you know how he returned to Dallas that following morning, that is the 22d?

Mrs. PAINE - Probably went with Wesley also.

Mr. JENNER - And he came out the following weekend, did he?

Mrs. PAINE - Yes. That was his birthday.

Mr. JENNER - The 18th of October is his birthday. Did you have a party for him?

Mrs. PAINE - We had a cake; yes, sir.

Mr. JENNER - Was that weekend uneventful?

Mrs. PAINE - Well, Marina was already home.

Mr. JENNER - The baby was now home. She came home very quickly?

Mrs. PAINE - Very quickly, a day and a half. She was home on Tuesday, the 16th, is that right-- skipped a day, the 22d. So that his party was the week before, too. I was wrong then.


Bullshitter.

Your right Lee,

I think I found her bullshittering her self into a self confession.
Read this a couple times on your own and I will highlight it in the next post.

Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us where the blanket was found?

Mr. PAINE - It doesn't really make sense as to why they would still leave the blanket there, and these things would have been discussed at that time, but I kind of remember a kind of silhouette situation, a police officer either lifted up or kicked this blanket, which was in exactly the same location that the rifle, the package had been, underneath the saw and somewhat in the sawdust. And I think he put it back there. He may have asked me at that time, "Did you know what was in this?"

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember that?

Mr. PAINE - And that is why I think they asked me, it may have been as early as that, whether it was a rifle, "Do you think it could have been a rifle?" I don't remember how it was posed, but I probably answered when it was suggested, it was a rifle, and there they suggested it was a rifle, because they had already learned from Marina that he had had a rifle, and it had been, perhaps, had learned it had been in that blanket.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know they had previously asked Marina about that?

Mr. PAINE - No; but I think--I'm just telling you my impressions here, very fuzzy impressions.

Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.

Mr. PAINE - My impression was that they asked me if I knew what was in this blanket, or he asked me, and then he asked me if it could be a rifle, and I probably responded, yes. It didn't take long once the rifle was suggested as the object to fit this puzzle together, this puzzle of the pieces that 1 had been trying to assemble in the package.


February 20, 2015 at 9:51 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Mr. LIEBELER - Can you tell us where the blanket was found?

Mr. PAINE - It doesn't really make sense as to why they would still leave the blanket there, and these things would have been discussed at that time, but I kind of remember a kind of silhouette situation, a police officer either lifted up or kicked this blanket, which was in exactly the same location that the rifle, the package had been, underneath the saw and somewhat in the sawdust. And I think he put it back there. He may have asked me at that time, "Did you know what was in this?"

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you remember that?

Mr. PAINE - And that is why I think they asked me, it may have been as early as that, whether it was a rifle, "Do you think it could have been a rifle?" I don't remember how it was posed, but I probably answered when it was suggested, it was a rifle, and there they suggested it was a rifle, because they had already learned from Marina that he had had a rifle, and it had been, perhaps, had learned it had been in that blanket.

Mr. LIEBELER - Do you know they had previously asked Marina about that?

Mr. PAINE - No; but I think--I'm just telling you my impressions here, very fuzzy impressions.

Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead.

Mr. PAINE - My impression was that they asked me if I knew what was in this blanket, or he asked me, and then he asked me if it could be a rifle, and I probably responded, yes. It didn't take long once the rifle was suggested as the object to fit this puzzle together, this puzzle of the pieces that 1 had been trying to assemble in the package.

Smile



February 20, 2015 at 10:05 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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I found James Porter Routt.

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:5s6AmLJCadkJ:www.mocavo.com/Brenda-Routt-Texas-Birth-Record-Index-1926-1995/15785764959286599178+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Daughter was Brend Routt could be alive and was old enough at the time to help with some questions.

Can we find her or James?

If we can message me info, and I will interview them.
February 20, 2015 at 7:40 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=70149559

James passed in 1978
February 20, 2015 at 7:43 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104



ROUTT, BRENDA Lee who was 37 (born ABT 1939) married 9 JUL 1976 in DALLAS COUNTY, TEXAS, U.S.A. a groom named CLIFTON W HOFFMAN who was 30 (born ABT 1946)

Okay then, Brenda Lee Hoffman.
February 20, 2015 at 7:55 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

How did the cops learn from Marina that Lee had a rifle and it was kept in the garage? I assume Ruth translated for them. Why would she use the word "perhaps" they learned from Marina?
February 20, 2015 at 11:15 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Colin Crow at February 20, 2015 at 11:15 PM

How did the cops learn from Marina that Lee had a rifle and it was kept in the garage? I assume Ruth translated for them. Why would she use the word "perhaps" they learned from Marina?

Laughing

Colin that is classic!

Here is another,


Jane Russell giving The BUSter Award by Dallas Transit Company To William Milburn Ellis For Outstanding Performance Of Duty. Sept 30, 1957

I was wondering did Cecil get a "BUSter" Award ?
February 21, 2015 at 2:31 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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I'm not sure if this has been raised here or elsewhere in the past, but...


The timing of 4:05 for the finding of the transfer ticket just doesn't work... I think it was "backdated" and here's why...


No questions were asked about a bus ticket immediately after for the Markham show-up, In fact, in the following interrogation, tey get their first real clue about how he got away... because this is when Roger Craig makes his appearance. We know the cops took this lead seriously because Curry was still under the impression this was the most likely means of transsport when interviewed saturday evening. He even said they were looking for the driver. There is no way they take Craig seriously if they have a bus ticket found on the suspect. 6:30 is the show-up for McWatters. It is not until the interrofgation after that in which any questions are allegedly asked about a bus... that interrogation began ast 7:55.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html


I know there is other evidence suggesting the ticket was found at 4:05, but how solid is that evidence really? If it could have been faked, it was because Craig's appearance and the initial acceptance of the Rambler stor plus no bus questions before 7:55 show it was "found" no sooner than the appearance of McWatters.


Here is something else that looks a little odd to me... the bus ticket has been added in under a different hand




Lastly, here is a Texas case where a bus ticket was fingerprinted.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Prisoner-to-be-Retried-33-Years-After-Conviction-Was-Thrown-Out-211528291.html


February 23, 2015 at 10:25 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
Member
Posts: 262

Greg,

the all caps notation for the ticket has similar R and N for the word RING to me. Not sure but it seems it could be same person. When were the key and page of rifle magazine ads found? These times would bookend the transfer maybe.
February 23, 2015 at 10:45 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Colin, from memory, both those items came via Harry Holmes, but not sure when and getting a bit late to look it up right now.


You are right. It could be the same hand, but I don't understand why that one item would be in all caps, and only one of the 3 "R"s is similar. The "N" less so, IMO - slightly more rounded in all caps version...
February 23, 2015 at 11:12 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Colin, I don't think my thoughts on Holmes were correct. He did go in search of an ad that matched the order and claimed to find one - but this obviously wasn't what was being sent to the lab.



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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 12:56 pm

Greg
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Greg at February 23, 2015 at 10:25 PM

I'm not sure if this has been raised here or elsewhere in the past, but...


The timing of 4:05 for the finding of the transfer ticket just doesn't work... I think it was "backdated" and here's why...


No questions were asked about a bus ticket immediately after for the Markham show-up, In fact, in the following interrogation, tey get their first real clue about how he got away... because this is when Roger Craig makes his appearance. We know the cops took this lead seriously because Curry was still under the impression this was the most likely means of transsport when interviewed saturday evening. He even said they were looking for the driver. There is no way they take Craig seriously if they have a bus ticket found on the suspect. 6:30 is the show-up for McWatters. It is not until the interrofgation after that in which any questions are allegedly asked about a bus... that interrogation began ast 7:55.

http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/LHO.html


I know there is other evidence suggesting the ticket was found at 4:05, but how solid is that evidence really? If it could have been faked, it was because Craig's appearance and the initial acceptance of the Rambler stor plus no bus questions before 7:55 show it was "found" no sooner than the appearance of McWatters.


Here is something else that looks a little odd to me... the bus ticket has been added in under a different hand




Lastly, here is a Texas case where a bus ticket was fingerprinted.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Prisoner-to-be-Retried-33-Years-After-Conviction-Was-Thrown-Out-211528291.html


I'll try this - any flaws - point out and shoot 'em down.


Oswald tells them (per Kelley report etc) that he left by bus, obtained a ttransfer and hopped another bus to go to the TT.


This is not mentioned to the press and is later covered up due to the fact that it gets him off the hook for Tiipt shooting,


Then came Roger Craig's story. This assumes top billing as getaway because, unlike bus -> bus, this can be used against him re Tippit - and conspiracy was still on the table... so one more person (the driver) was not an ussue.


Next came the report of the young man laughing maniacally on McWatters bus. It is assumed this must have been Oswald. They grab Mcwatters and realise from his punch that Oswald was on a different bus. Solution, they take one of Cec's tickets, punch it with Cec's punch and get him to confirm it is a ticket from his bus and must be one othe two transfers he gave out. Then the line-up. Ces is confused. The maniacal laughing man is not there. But wanting to help, he picks Oswald as the closest in looks. Except that is turned into a possitive ID.


This scenario is made possible by what looks like evidence of two tickets in the hands of the DPD.


One ticket is listed on the property receipt of pocket litter taken from Oswald at arrest (it is not otherwise identified by a number, route or anything else) - the other is sealed in an evidence envelop to send to the lab with the time backdated to 4:05 to disguise the fact that it came from McWatters bus.


Having now put Oswald on Cec's bus, they must get him off - else there is no hope of getting him to Tippit on time... enter the taxi and Whaley.


After all this, they then - in the reports they would later write - have Osawld admittng - against his own interests - that yes he was on that bus and in that cab. That's how desperate they had become.


There is no way Oswad was going to be allowed to have a trial. Fritz, was indeed, signalling Ruby with his hand to move in and had left plenty of room for him to do it... against theplan he himself had formulated to keep oswald safe during the transfer.

I bet the ticket listed in property wass not pristine...
February 24, 2015 at 11:46 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Terry Martin
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I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.


So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?


Just trying to understand your thinking.


February 24, 2015 at 12:19 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Terry Martin at February 24, 2015 at 12:19 PM

I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.


So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?


Just trying to understand your thinking.


Terry,


it could be a couple of things. When was the order handed down to dump all conspiracy leads?


It could be just the opportunity was too good to pass up making him the maniac on the bus - especially if they really did think it was him initially. The maniacal laugh just fits so well with the overwrought script that others were reading from.


Or maybe it was to protect Ruth Paine and/or the person who jumped in that rambler.


Any of those are possible.
February 24, 2015 at 12:33 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Beowulf
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Posts: 179 Re: inventory list with bus ticket in all caps... That it looks different from other items makes me think something else was written-- say, about a movie ticket-- but was then covered over by liquid paper. Bette Nesmith (her son Michael was in The Monkees) had been selling liquid paper out of her house since the 1950s... And she happened to live in Dallas area.
--


February 24, 2015 at 2:05 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Beowulf at February 24, 2015 at 2:05 PM

Re: inventory list with bus ticket in all caps... That it looks different from other items makes me think something else was written-- say, about a movie ticket-- but was then covered over by liquid paper. Bette Nesmith (her son Michael was in The Monkees) had been selling liquid paper out of her house since the 1950s... And she happened to live in Dallas area.

Ha! I've had her in mind for a few years regarding something else that needed whiting out. She lived not far from Walker.
February 24, 2015 at 2:39 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Colin Crow
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Posts: 262

Terry Martin at February 24, 2015 at 12:19 PM

I don't see anything wrong with your scenario. But I do wonder why they would dump Craig's scenario after running with it. It seemed far easier a scenario to work with - less "creative" work on their part.


So, why did they dump Craig's version? Was it just because he was sticking to the Mauser story and they wanted to make ALL his observations wrong? Or did the station wagon he saw - whether or not it was Ruth's - open another completely different can of worms?


Just trying to understand your thinking.


I would think when the order came down to kill any suggestion of a conspiracy the get away involving someone else had to be deep sixed.

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:23 pm

Ed Ledoux
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My comments in red

The timing of 4:05 for the finding of the transfer ticket just doesn't work... I think it was "backdated" and here's why...

The envelope gives the impression it was sealed at 4:05.
Envelope would have to be back dated if Sims and Boyd ran the transfer up to Fritz and then showed Mcwatters at 6:20 for second showup.

No questions were asked about a bus ticket immediately after for the Markham show-up, In fact, in the following interrogation, tey get their first real clue about how he got away... because this is when Roger Craig makes his appearance. We know the cops took this lead seriously because Curry was still under the impression this was the most likely means of transsport when interviewed saturday evening.
Right, by following the news reports and statements of Wade, Curry, et al, we see how and when the story evolved.
He even said they were looking for the driver. Yes, he wanted to talk with a Negro driving a car. Eventually he found one, Whaley. Smile
There is no way they take Craig seriously if they have a bus ticket found on the suspect. 6:30 is the show-up for McWatters. It is not until the interrogation after that in which any questions are allegedly asked about a bus... that interrogation began ast 7:55.
Correct, they then have Whaley enter the story on Saturday.
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184999/

I know there is other evidence suggesting the ticket was found at 4:05,  Please explain what other evidence points to a 4:05 finding of the transfer??? but how solid is that evidence really? If it could have been faked, it was because Craig's appearance and the initial acceptance of the Rambler story plus no bus questions before 7:55 show it was "found" no sooner than the appearance of McWatters.

Here is something else that looks a little odd to me... the bus ticket has been added in under a different hand
Looks like printing is similar, it is all printed as it is all evidentiary, like Ring, etc.

I'll try this - any flaws - point out and shoot 'em down. Wink Okay lets go!

Oswald tells them (per Kelley report etc) that he left by bus, obtained a ttransfer and hopped another bus to go to the TT. Or maybe he said he just took a bus to the TT.

This is not mentioned to the press and is later covered up due to the fact that it gets him off the hook for Tipit shooting,

Then came Roger Craig's story. This assumes top billing as getaway because, unlike bus -> bus, this can be used against him re Tippit - and conspiracy was still on the table... so one more person (the driver) was not an ussue. Correct, idea is that he is heading to Jefferson and Marsalis to use the transfer is stopped on the way and shoots Tippit. This does not work for a guy riding a bus to the movies. Yes conspiracy was very much in play with BWF, Molina, Givens and various others being accused of just such.

Next came the report of the young man laughing maniacally on McWatters bus. It is assumed this must have been Oswald. They grab Mcwatters Wait they grab McWatters before really talking to Bledsoe? You know how this sounds?and realise from his punch that Oswald was on a different bus. Possible LHO was on a different bus but did not need or get a transfer. Solution, they take one of Cec's tickets, punch it with Cec's punch Ahhh his transfers would have been punched already, they just needed to tear the transfer were they thought it would have been torn and get him to confirm it is a ticket from his bus and must be one of the two transfers he gave out. , which I would like to agree with the Bus driver of that route, but without the booklet we are left to wonder why an assumption would need to be made by anyone including Cecil. He just needed to check the booklet to know for certain. Did he? Thanks to the Ball and Belin show we may never know what happened to the evidence this whole bus ride is predicated on. If his book had no F'in transfers missing then he sure as hell did not give any out. If the whole book was empty then Cecil is a moron or a liar as he would have been passing out transfers as fast as he was getting passengers.
Assuming he only gave out two we are still stuck with an out of sequence issuance of a transfer. :/ Then the line-up. Cecil is confused. The maniacal laughing man is not there. But wanting to help, he picks Oswald as the closest in looks. Except that is turned into a positive ID.

This scenario is made possible by what looks like evidence of two tickets in the hands of the DPD.

One ticket is listed on the property receipt of pocket litter taken from Oswald at arrest (it is not otherwise identified by a number, route or anything else) Yes! Just a Dallas bus transfer for 11/22.


- the other is sealed in an evidence envelop to send to the lab with the time backdated to 4:05 to disguise the fact that it came from McWatters bus. 4:05 is the story and they are sticking to it no matter what else anyone says. Could be anything in an envelope and marked 4:05 at anytime so why mark an envelope that way? Laughing

Having now put Oswald on Cec's bus, they must get him off - else there is no hope of getting him to Tippit on time... enter the taxi and Whaley. Or better yet enter the transfer, ans a need to go to the Dallas Transit Company and start fishing.

After all this, they then - in the reports they would later write - have Oswald admitting - against his own interests - that yes he was on that bus and in that cab. That's how desperate they had become. Agreed, pre-counsel statements which LHO would know better than giving any information or even confirming information presented to him by DPD, because cops are allowed to lie to a suspect to get them to confess, or divulge further information. Classic tactic would be putting BWF in a room and LHO in another and going back and forth saying the other has squealed.

There is no way Oswald was going to be allowed to have a trial. Did Ruby live to see trial? Fritz, was indeed, signaling Ruby with his hand to move in and had left plenty of room for him to do it... against the plan he himself had formulated to keep Oswald safe during the transfer. Yes you don't need to wave people away whom were not there, unlike the car which should have been parked by the door already. So after all the delays they couldn't even get the car in the right spot Neutral. Again the DPD showed lack of care for the President and a subject under their control. They lost both to gunfire in a single weekend. As Mark Lane said the Dallas Police did not distinguish themselves that day, 11/22 or any other day since.

I bet the ticket listed in property was not pristine... If a ticket made it to property it was pristine as it did not come from Oswald,
it came from a booklet Cecil had on the bus.
If LHO took an Oak Cliff bus he did not necessarily need a transfer to get to the TT. And any transfer would be used to accomplish the transfer to another bus, the transfer thus taken by the driver of the bus he boarded.
If a transfer was taken off Oswald by Sims it went into Fritz's desk drawer never to be seen again...and was replaced with one from Cecil's bus.

LHO would of had no use for a transfer though that I can fathom.
Only purpose getting on a bus and asking for a transfer you don't plan using, is to show what time you had been on the bus. An instant alibi.
This would be the crazy Ivan like we see in soviet sub tactics. Walk one way for a while, get the dog to follow, then double back to see who is following, then hop in a cab/bus. This only happens when a tail is in place. To ditch the tail. Wonder how many cabs were hailed by men on Nov 22 with cameras saying "Follow that bus!"?

Only thing the transfer did was transfer LHO out of a car and onto a bus.





February 25, 2015 at 4:47 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Thanks for the corrections and further insights, ed. Amazing stuff!
February 25, 2015 at 7:14 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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   Greg at February 15, 2015 at 9:53 PM

       The more I think about how close he was to the James Markham situation


   Might have some good news down the track on this situation...  

and the daughter Pat?

DULWORTH, PAT

Helen Louise Markham's daughter.

CD 1456, p. 4



February 27, 2015 at 8:34 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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I don't think I want to know why he has PAT tatooed on his arm?
February 27, 2015 at 8:35 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

What would I give to find the provenance of the following clipping.  Especially given the bus crash news story that is very conveniently contained directly beneath the main story:




March 16, 2015 at 12:01 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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If I was a betting man, and I am, I'd wager a good few grand that the above newspaper clipping arrived in the following envelope which is postmarked March 13, 1964.  The day after the newspaper article appeared on March 12, 1964.  In other words, IMO, Cecil was receiving direct threats in his mail:



March 16, 2015 at 12:35 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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   Ed Ledoux at February 27, 2015 at 8:35 AM

   I don't think I want to know why he has PAT tattooed on his arm?

Looks like an inbred family to me, Ed.  If Helen was directly related to one of the Barrow boys then we can rest assured they weren't altogther right in the head.
March 16, 2015 at 12:39 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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   Lee Farley at March 16, 2015 at 12:39 AM

       Ed Ledoux at February 27, 2015 at 8:35 AM

       I don't think I want to know why he has PAT tatooed on his arm?

   Looks like an inbred family to me, Ed.  If Helen was directly related to one of the Barrow boys then we can rest assured they weren't altogther right in the head.

Well done, Lee. I have to agree, it's a threat. Posted in Dallas by a semi-literate. One of the Markhams would have to be up there on the suspect list. Was this in the Commission Documents?
March 16, 2015 at 4:18 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13122617-dallas-transit-transfers-?page=14

When I was looking at it I thought it was a school assignment, write to someone in the newspaper. Good Timmy you picked the Bus Man.
But then I read the article is about who is next to give the WC testimony. Thus Cecil is due up next.
And Cecil McWatters is underlined.

Its a pretty idle threat if there was one, I mean there just happens to be another article on that page about a bus crash.
Seems very literate of the illiterate writer to include that portion if it was a veiled threat. No underlining of the bus crash , etc.
And You Next Maybe seemed like a kid wanting to share the article and ask if he was next.

A threat would be YOU MAYBE NEXT and an arrow to the bus crash...though it does not state if the Bogata death road Bus driver survived.

Although a Markham relative could be responsible. Laughing


But lets not pass up the most important part of the article,

"An FBI agent - whose name was not released - identified a container that was found in the book building - evidently the one that held the rifle..."
"...Mrs. Randle saw them leave since she lives near a house where Oswald was staying...." Wink  Makes me think Linnie was saying the opposite of what she told the WC. She told the WC she did not see them leave. The article gives me the impression that Linnie saw Wes pick up Lee at the Paine's from a "distant" observation rather than the story she and Wes gave. Poor Essie Mae had to be coached as to what to say and still got the hands empty/carrying a bag part...drat. Well two outta three ain't bad.
Could be nothing, but Linnie swears she never saw Wes and Lee leave.
Yet Linnie gives that curious description of a Package Covered in Brown Paper.
A gun carton is usually how a gun is shipped in the mail or even when purchased new in a store.

Mr. CASTER. Well, I left the Depository during the noon hour and had lunch and, while out for the lunch hour, I stopped by Sanger-Harris sporting goods department to look for a rifle for my son's birthday---I beg your pardon, Christmas present--son's Christmas present, and while I was there I purchased the single-shot .22--single shot--and at the same time was looking at some deer rifles. I had, oh, for several years been thinking about buying a deer rifle and they happened to have one that I liked and I purchased the .30-06 while I was there.

Mr. BALL. And did they box them up?

Mr. CASTER. They were in cartons; yes.

Mr. BALL. And then you went back to work, I guess?

Mr. CASTER. Yes; I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were, this was during the noon hour, and as I entered the Texas School Book Depository Building on my way up to the buying office, I stopped by Mr. Truly's office, and while I was there we examined the two rifles that I had purchased.

Mr. BALL. Did you take them out of the carton?

Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.

Mr. BALL. Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?

Mr. CASTER. Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know the Texas School Book Depository workers there in the shipping department

Mr. BALL. In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there?

Mr. CASTER. We weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office, we were just there over the counter.

Mr. BALL. In the warehouse?

Mr. CASTER. We were there in the hall--just right there over the counter in front of the warehouse; that's right.

Mr. BALL. And did you take the guns out of the carton?

Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. They were removed from the carton.

Mr. BALL. Did you handle them?

Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.

Mr. BALL. Did anybody else handle the guns?

Mr. CASTER. Mr. Truly handled them and I'm not sure whether Mr. Shelley had the guns in his hands or not; I'm not positive.

Mr. BALL. How long a time were you there with the guns, and by time, just estimate it.

Mr. CASTER Well, it couldn't have been more than to minutes.

Mr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that?

Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office.

Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that?

Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home.

Here we have Rose telling us what Linnie Mae Randle said to Adamcik about the bag.
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/14/1462-002.gif
"It was Long Wrapped in Paper or a BOX"

What did Adamcik tell the WC about Linnie and the bag/box?

Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.

Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?

Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box.

Of course Wes had plenty of time to go home or elsewhere, he had left the TSBD without waiting around for the roll call. A roll call he not only was not listed on he also hung around for  "a few minutes after"...yeah sure got a witness Wes?
Then where Wes? He stutters a bit when asked about this. He has to stop a think, then says he did NOT go directly home...What does that mean? Did he go Indirectly home?
He may have gone home, talked to Linnie, made up a story which he told her and she bought it, and then headed to the hospital.
Linnie would throw off the cops with a game of 'Where's Wesley', similar to Where's Waldo minus the stocking cap.
This will slow or stall for enough time till Wes gets to the hospital, by telling the DPD to go to a Dallas hospital rather than stop by the Irving one.
How Linnie would not know which hospital the old man was in is another mystery. Perhaps he was transferred? Of course if your transferred the transferring hospital would know whom you are and where they transferred you to.
Was Linnie never asked about this error?
The cops, Rose Stovall Adamcik, make it sound like they got back to DPD made a call to Parkland.
Parkland says something like they don't have a patient by that name I assume from what the Rose Stovall Adamcik officers claim, so they assume I assume that Wes went to the Irving Medical Center and call it next.
They get lucky, the second try, and find the patient and thus Where is Wes.
Good guess work, or Parkland said they transferred that patient to Irving medical?

It could very well be Wes gave Lee a ride home.
Perhaps to a back alley Beckley safehouse.
Wes does have missing time.
Is also missing from that roll call list.
Lee needed a lift to Oak Cliff or to the Texas Theater.
Enter Wes.
Lee and Wes both "don't think there will be any more work" so they both leave.
Put two and two together...

Was the bus and cab story a cover for Wes the driver?
March 17, 2015 at 1:22 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Wes the driver could have legs.


I don't really understand your rationale about the letter, Ed.  If I received that letter, in Cecil's position, my mind would be thinking a million different things - - none of them good.  A threat does not have to spell itself out.  It can be vague.  It can be veiled.  It can be subtle. This letter, with its writing on the newspaper page, is fucking spooky.

If this turned up in my mail I'd be on edge.


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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:36 pm

Ed Ledoux
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Yes I agree it was seen as such a threat. But to me it is more a childs letter to the bus man. Nothing more sinister than a second grader with office supplies and a newspaper.
Anyways not sure why someone would threaten Cecil, to make him tow the line in his WC testimony perhaps.
The text on the article is not the same as the envelope, thus making this a conspiracy. It was also mailed making it a Federal crime.
I have not seen any fingerprint or other evidence generated by this letter or envelope.
We should check to make sure we have not missed anything else related to these items.
Did Whaley get a cab crash story...oh that's right he was a cab crash story.
Hmm need more input on the items before we can be sure if it was a real threat or a class room assignment.
The only thing spooky is the lack of return addresss, and the two hands whom made these, the article writer was using cursive for YOU.
The envelope looks like it was done by an left hand of a right handed person. Or again a child younger less skilled than the article endorser.
The 5cent stamp could contain DNA from being licked, it could also have been wetted with water.
Is it 3-20-64 JMS?, Which DPD officer who that be?

The back of the envelope.
11 x 22 cm.
It is sealed and could contain DNA, or nothing. Does not look like fingerprint powder or chemical testing has been done, odd for a threat, although test could of taken place after photos.
There is no tape on the rear.
There is a mark from the Po.


It was mailed in the afternoon, PM of 13th. Spooky!

But seriously besides Bus Man's fan mail,
I was re-reading a long thread
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16665&page=14
and what I don't know if after all the reading, I caught that the inventory has three items listed.
1) Postal Form.
2) Label with George Bouhe address.
3) Postal Form Lee Oswald.







Now look at the 3 again. It used to be an 2.... Wink Now there's something spooky.
March 20, 2015 at 1:28 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Oswaldo Nova
Member
Posts: 5

http://www.c-span.org/video/?321541-1/discussion-kennedy-assassination-records

Hope this hasn't been posted before.
It shows the actual transfer...but..not the back I don't think.

Cheers
--

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-J. Edna Hoover to Clyde Tolson the evening of Nov 22, '63
March 28, 2015 at 5:29 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Oswaldo Nova
Member
Posts: 5


Pretty amazing for a 50 year old transfer!
Not sure if the back is shown but the video shows some other stuff in fairly high res as well i that is germaine to anyones interest.

NOTICE that there is no "fingerprint juice" on this?
(it's hard to get fingerprints off newsprint apparently...)
Cheers



--

"Lets get some light beer and a box of panties!"
-J. Edna Hoover to Clyde Tolson the evening of Nov 22, '63
March 28, 2015 at 5:34 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Faroe Islander
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good find mr Nova
March 29, 2015 at 9:21 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Yes very good find.
Notice how delicate the paper is and how she carefully picks it up. This does not support the notion of it surviving in LHO's pocket during the scuffle and arrest and brutal treatment.
The transfer is exculpatory. It proves LHO's innocence in the Tippit murder. All this would have been forthcoming at trial.
LHO would have shown a bright spotlight on the corrupt Dallas police and District Attorney's office.
If LHO went to trial, the DPD, Will Fritz and Henry Wade would be the ones on trial.
Pity Lee did not survive DPD custody.
March 31, 2015 at 7:52 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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Posts: 1403

   Ed Ledoux at March 31, 2015 at 7:52 AM

   Yes very good find.
   Notice how delicate the paper is and how she carefully picks it up. This does not support the notion of it surviving in LHO's pocket during the scuffle and arrest and brutal treatment.
   The transfer is excuplatory. It proves LHO's innocence in the Tippit murder. All this would have been forthcoming at trial.
   LHO would have shown a bright spolight on the corrupt Dallas police and Distric Attorney's office.
   If LHO went to trial, the DPD, Will Fritz and Henry Wade would be the ones on trial.
   Pity Lee did not survive DPD custody.

Too bloody right Ed,


been reading a lot about Mr. Wade...time to ramp up the spotlight on this one, what a prick.


Shameful!

I'm going after Wade, he deserves to be remembered as bent as hell, a crooked piece of shit.

I don't care that it was Texas 1963, Thats just a cop out (pun intended)
April 26, 2015 at 2:09 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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   Ed Ledoux at March 17, 2015 at 1:22 AM

   http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13122617-dallas-transit-transfers-?page=14

   When I was looking at it I thought it was a school assignment, write to someone in the newspaper. Good Timmy you picked the Bus Man.
   But then I read the article is about who is next to give the WC testimony. Thus Cecil is due up next.
   And Cecil McWatters is underlined.

   Its a pretty idle threat if there was one, I mean there just happens to be another article on that page about a bus crash.
   Seems very literate of the illiterate writer to include that portion if it was a veiled threat. No underlining of the bus crash , etc.
   And You Next Maybe seemd like a kid wanting to share the article and ask if he was next.

   A threat would be YOU MAYBE NEXT and an arrow to the bus crash...though it does not state if the Bogata death road Bus driver survived.

   Although a Markham relative could be reponsible. Laughing


   But lets not pass up the most important part of the article,

   "An FBI agent - whose name was not released - identified a container that was found in the book building - evidently the one that held the rifle..."
   "...Mrs. Randle saw them leave since she lives near a house where Oswald was staying...." Wink  Makes me think Linnie was saying the opposite of what she told the WC. She told the WC she did not see them leave. The article gives me the impression that Linnie saw Wes pick up Lee at the Paines from a "distant" observation rather than the story she and Wes gave. Poor Essie Mae had to be coached as to what to say and still got the hands empty/carrying a bag part...drats. Well two outa three ain't bad.
   Could be nothing, but Linnie swears she never saw Wes and Lee leave.
   Yet Linnie gives that curious description of a Package Covered in Brown Paper.
   A gun carton is usually how a gun is shipped in the mail or even when purchased new in a store.

   Mr. CASTER. Well, I left the Depository during the noon hour and had lunch and, while out for the lunch hour, I stopped by Sanger-Harris sporting goods department to look for a rifle for my son's birthday---I beg your pardon, Christmas present--son's Christmas present, and while I was there I purchased the single-shot .22--single shot--and at the same time was looking at some deer rifles. I had, oh, for several years been thinking about buying a deer rifle and they happened to have one that I liked and I purchased the .30-06 while I was there.

   Mr. BALL. And did they box them up?

   Mr. CASTER. They were in cartons; yes.

   Mr. BALL. And then you went back to work, I guess?

   Mr. CASTER. Yes; I picked both rifles up in cartons just like they were, this was during the noon hour, and as I entered the Texas School Book Depository Building on my way up to the buying office, I stopped by Mr. Truly's office, and while I was there we examined the two rifles that I had purchased.

   Mr. BALL. Did you take them out of the carton?

   Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.

   Mr. BALL. Who was there besides you and Mr. Truly?

   Mr. CASTER. Well, I'm not really sure who was there. I think you were there, Bill, and Mr. Shelley was there---and Mr. Roy Truly. The only people that I know about, in any event, were there; there were workers there at the time, but I'm not quite sure how many. I couldn't even tell you their names. I don't know the Texas School Book Depository workers there in the shipping department

   Mr. BALL. In that office, though, Truly's office, how many were there?

   Mr. CASTER. We weren't in Mr. Truly's immediate office, we were just there over the counter.

   Mr. BALL. In the warehouse?

   Mr. CASTER. We were there in the hall--just right there over the counter in front of the warehouse; that's right.

   Mr. BALL. And did you take the guns out of the carton?

   Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did. They were removed from the carton.

   Mr. BALL. Did you handle them?

   Mr. CASTER. Yes; I did.

   Mr. BALL. Did anybody else handle the guns?

   Mr. CASTER. Mr. Truly handled them and I'm not sure whether Mr. Shelley had the guns in his hands or not; I'm not positive.

   Mr. BALL. How long a time were you there with the guns, and by time, just estimate it.

   Mr. CASTER Well, it couldn't have been more than to minutes.

   Mr. BALL. What did you do with the guns after that?

   Mr. CASTER. I put them back in the carton and carried them up to my office.

   Mr. BALL. And what did you do with them after that?

   Mr. CASTER. I left at the end of the working day, oh, around 4 o'clock and took the guns in the cartons and carried them and put them in my car and carried them home.

   Here we have Rose telling us what Linnie Mae Randle said to Adamcik about the bag.
   http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/14/1462-002.gif
   "It was Long Wrapped in Paper or a BOX"

   What did Adamcik tell the WC about Linnie and the bag/box?

   Mr. ADAMCIK. Coming back, Mrs. Frazier, I believe it was, drove up to the house as I was coming back with--no, it was Mrs. Bill Randle. She (Mrs. Randle) was a neighbor there and she was driving up to the house, so I asked her whether she knew anything about what had happened, and whether she had seen Lee Oswald, and she did tell me that Lee Oswald rode to work with her brother, which is Wesley Frazier, who was staying with her, and he rode to work with him that morning. She told me that she saw--she was up early in the morning and was drinking coffee, and saw Lee Harvey Oswald go across the front yard, across the yard carrying like a long package wrapped in something, carrying it from the Paine house to Wesley's car.

   Mr. BELIN. Did she say how he was carrying the package?

   Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she didn't. I think we got an affidavit. In fact, I know we did, but I didn't take it.

   Mr. BELIN. Did she say about how long the package was?

   Mr. ADAMCIK. No; she said it was long and wrapped in a paper or a box.

   Of course Wes had plenty of time to go home or elsewhere, he had left the TSBD without waiting around for the roll call. A roll call he not only was not listed on he also hung around for  "a few minutes after"...yeah sure got a witness Wes?
   Then where Wes? He stutters a bit when asked about this. He has to stop a think, then says he did NOT go directly home...What does that mean? Did he go Indirectly home?
   He may have gone home, talked to Linnie, made up a story which he told her and she bought it, and then headed to the hospital.
   Linnie would throw off the cops with a game of 'Where's Wesley', similar to Where's Waldo minus the stocking cap.
   This will slow or stall for enough time till Wes gets to the hospital, by telling the DPD to go to a Dallas hospital rather than stop by the Irving one.
   How Linnie would not know which hospital the old man was in is another mystery. Perhaps he was transferred? Of course if your transferred the transferring hospital would know whom you are and where they transferred you to.
   Was Linnie never asked about this error?
   The cops, Rose Stovall Adamcik, make it sound like they got back to DPD made a call to Parkland.
   Parkland says something like they don't have a patient by that name I assume from what the Rose Stovall Adamcik officers claim, so they assume I assume that Wes went to the Irving Medical Center and call it next.
   They get lucky, the second try, and find the patient and thus Where is Wes.
   Good guess work, or Parkland said they transferred that patient to Irving medical?

   It could very well be Wes gave Lee a ride home.
   Perhaps to a back alley Beckley safehouse.
   Wes does have missing time.
   Is also missing from that roll call list.
   Lee needed a lift to Oak Cliff or to the Texas Theater.
   Enter Wes.
   Lee and Wes both "don't think there will be any more work" so they both leave.
   Put two and two together...

   Was the bus and cab story a cover for Wes the driver?

And the hits just keep comin'


Wes is as good as done, thanks to your efforts Ed.


If you don't mind I might swing this one over to where's your rider
April 26, 2015 at 2:12 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

No worries Mick!
Share away.
I can do this all day... the Warren Commission proves itself wrong over and over.

I do wish I could make out the bus number or name from the Elsie Dorman film.
It starts with her exiting a bus near her home. She lived 1233 E. Louisiana between Ewing and Denley in South Oak Cliff.  Of note Elsie, whom was not only at an open window but was also FILMING the assassination was not asked to testify. She thought the shots came from across the street from the direction of the County Records building though.
Same as Billy Lovelady as he stated in his affidavit. Elsie would bugger up the commissions theory of a sixth floor shooter. Lovelady was brought into line by time of his testimony...yet he switched to a railyard shooter.

It is interesting that Edward Shields HSCA testimony about LHO leaving the TSBD and the bus stopped there at that time so he hopped on. At least that is the hearsay about LHO activities.
Take this in to account with Wes's late story of LHO walking out the back dock and walking down Houston then crossing Houston, then crossing Elm where he was lost in the crowd. Very vivid recollection from Wes for it to be a mis-remembrance. But no bus stop or bus involved...

April 28, 2015 at 8:21 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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Posts: 1403

   Ed Ledoux at April 28, 2015 at 8:21 PM

   No worries Mick!
   Share away.
   I can do this all day... the Warren Commission proves itself wrong over and over.

   I do wish I could make out the bus number or name from the Elsie Dorman film.
   It starts with her exiting a bus near her home. She lived 1233 E. Louisiana between Ewing and Denley in South Oak Cliff.  Of note Elsie, whom was not only at an open window but was also FILMING the assassination was not asked to testify. She thought the shots came from across the street from the direction of the County Records building though.
   Same as Billy Lovelady as he stated in his affidavit. Elsie would bugger up the commissions theory of a sixth floor shooter. Lovelady was brought into line by time of his testimony...yet he switched to a railyard
shooter.

   It is interesting that Edward Shields HSCA testimony about LHO leaving the TSBD and the bus stopped there at that time so he hopped on. At least that is the hearsay about LHO activities.
   Take this in to account with Wes's late story of LHO walking out the back dock and walking down Houston then crossing Houston, then crossing Elm where he was lost in the crowd. Very vivid recollection from Wes for it to be a mis-remembrance. But no bus stop or bus involved...

I've tried in vain Ed to get to see the bus #. I used Lightroom and google screenshot capture to no avail.




May 2, 2015 at 10:55 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Thanks Mick!
Actually you would be better served to advance the frames forward to when the number on the side of the bus comes into view. Frames are a bit clearer then also.
Look for it near the door.
I will let you go first with what you think it is, I don't want to muddy the water for you.


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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:51 pm

Mick Purdy
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Posts: 1403

That's as good as I can get this Ed,

Still not sure of the #




May 3, 2015 at 12:07 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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May 3, 2015 at 12:44 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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May 3, 2015 at 1:27 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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May 3, 2015 at 2:05 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Excellent job mate!

401 or 402 perhaps?
May 4, 2015 at 7:56 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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Ed Ledoux at May 4, 2015 at 7:56 PM

Excellent job mate!

401 or 402 perhaps?

I'm with 401..... Smile
May 5, 2015 at 12:02 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

BK Screen Grab Lee Harvey Oswald, 48 Hours To Live


--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




May 18, 2015 at 5:04 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Barto at May 18, 2015 at 5:04 AM

BK Screen Grab Lee Harvey Oswald, 48 Hours To Live


Sorry mate those LHO48HTL image links are broken.
Please post again.

Cheers
May 23, 2015 at 5:37 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
Moderator
Posts: 1915

Some people can see them and some can not.

i have now upped them to the photo album as well.





--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




May 23, 2015 at 6:02 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

I think the point of these images Barto has submitted is that someone had the tickets reprinted with the same 004459 number and Friday 22 63 date...then they wrinkled the ticket that they just had made.
Now while this is theater it is not historical nor accurate. If anything it is disinformative.
It would be great to track down the director, producers, the prop maker and get an interview about the bus transfer they doctored.

May 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Prod/Writ/Dir by Anthony Giacchino

Exec Prod. Steve Gillon

Assoc. prod. R Scott Frawley

PP Prod. and ed. Marc Delforte



--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




May 25, 2015 at 3:55 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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https://www.linkedin.com/pub/anthony-giacchino/8/715/620
--

_________________________________________________________________________________

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Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




May 25, 2015 at 8:00 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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i am more than willing to contact him if you have not already, but since you have the most knowledge on the case .....

lemme know if you want me to contact him
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Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 19 Aug 2016, 1:56 pm

Vinny
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Posts: 532

Came across a post from Whaley's great grand daughter on Facebook.




June 6, 2015 at 9:41 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Mick Purdy
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Posts: 1403

Ed Ledoux at May 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM

I think the point of these images Barto has submitted is that someone had the tickets reprinted with the same 004459 number and Friday 22 63 date...then they wrinkled the ticket that they just had made.
Now while this is theater it is not historical nor accurate. If anything it is disinformative.
It would be great to track down the director, producers, the prop maker and get an interview about the bus transfer they doctored.

Too true Ed,

unfortunately in my very early days of TV film etc I would've been party to this same theatre, innocently though in my mind, and not quite understanding the ramifications and the consequences of such behaviour. But some years on, and through experince and a little splash of common sense I have learned that this can lead to dire outcomes. Yes, Film and TV Directors can be manipulative and have been for many years and quite often hold sway over the rest of the crew with no accountability. If anyone is in doubt, I implore you to read American cinematograher monthly edition from 1983, can't remember the date specifically but the whole edition was devoted to John Landis and his segment in the movie Twilight Zone the movie 1983. If you delve deeper into that sorry saga you will find that John Landis as a director had absolutey no regard to his cast and crew and in fact was just a bully who the studios condoned........on a much smaller scale this is what happens sometimes in Documentary making.

I'll stop rambling now
June 7, 2015 at 3:19 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Mick Purdy at June 7, 2015 at 3:19 PM

Ed Ledoux at May 24, 2015 at 4:43 PM

I think the point of these images Barto has submitted is that someone had the tickets reprinted with the same 004459 number and Friday 22 63 date...then they wrinkled the ticket that they just had made.
Now while this is theater it is not historical nor accurate. If anything it is disinformative.
It would be great to track down the director, producers, the prop maker and get an interview about the bus transfer they doctored.

Too true Ed,

unfortunately in my very early days of TV film etc I would've been party to this same theatre, innocently though in my mind, and not quite understanding the ramifications and the consequences of such behaviour. But some years on, and through experince and a little splash of common sense I have learned that this can lead to dire outcomes. Yes, Film and TV Directors can be manipulative and have been for many years and quite often hold sway over the rest of the crew with no accountability. If anyone is in doubt, I implore you to read American cinematograher monthly edition from 1983, can't remember the date specifically but the whole edition was devoted to John Landis and his segment in the movie Twilight Zone the movie 1983. If you delve deeper into that sorry saga you will find that John Landis as a director had absolutey no regard to his cast and crew and in fact was just a bully who the studios condoned........on a much smaller scale this is what happens sometimes in Documentary making.

I'll stop rambling now

Perhaps, thus the need to interview them.
Barto please do go ahead as I am swapped during normal hours.
We want to know the history of that device-prop.

Cheers!
Ed
June 7, 2015 at 8:24 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Steven Gillion has a long "history" of saying Oswald did it and the commission got it right.
He is a History Channel stooge!!!!
Fuck Steve would say anything as long as it was perceived as that LHO was guilty.
Don't ask him yet.
Ask all the others first Barto!
Then go after Steve.
June 7, 2015 at 8:28 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Vinny at June 6, 2015 at 9:41 PM

Came across a post from Whaley's great grand daughter on Facebook.




Thinks Vinny. Might be worth talking to her at some stage?
--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


June 7, 2015 at 8:46 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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--



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Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




June 8, 2015 at 8:43 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Ed, i contacted Anthony through LinkedIn, see if he bites.

Will keep y'all posted.
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Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:40 pm

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104


Thanks B! Doesn't look like he is up for a discussion...
June 27, 2015 at 7:47 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Nope he did not get back to me at all.....
--
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Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/
Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald
 

June 27, 2015 at 10:24 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

JFK The Lost Bullet 720


--
_________________________________________________________________________________
Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU
Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/
Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald
 

June 28, 2015 at 11:34 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

Ed Ledoux at May 4, 2015 at 7:56 PM




Excellent job mate!

401 or 402 perhaps?

402, is what came to me when I looked at the screen shot above.
--
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June 28, 2015 at 11:49 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

This is the best sample I could gather, now does this not show as 4 digits, starting something like 44X2....????
r-click: open in new tab


--
_________________________________________________________________________________
Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU
Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/
Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald
 

June 29, 2015 at 1:41 AMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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http://s801.photobucket.com/user/kegeshook/media/bustransfer.png.html?sort=3&o=54
--
_________________________________________________________________________________
Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU
Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/
Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald
 

July 11, 2015 at 8:05 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Vinny
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July 12, 2015 at 6:55 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

"What Do You Need Me To Say Whaley" changed his story more than a cabbie in a conspiracy. 
He flip flopped on where he dropped the rider. At the address he wrote down? {Past it? Before it?} 
http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth340509/m1/1/
vs
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/whaley3.htm
He said he dropped passenger in the 500 block. That is where the fare was written for. That is what he said in his affidavit.
Yet he changed this to droping off his fare in the 700 block.
The mudding of the water with Neely Street being brought up and used as a landmark is subterfuge...and thus suborning perjury was exercised.

Heck Whaley had Oswald wearing two jackets, a striped shirt, and a expanding bracelet with Lee on it...seriously.
Too good to be be true never applies better than here for Whaley's testimony. He lied about this under oath.
I am sure he was pressured to aid the framing of an escaping Oswald and thus the timing of Oswald's supposed murdering of Tippit.
He was no hero. His death a shame, he never had a chance to tell the truth,,,,but his fare was ordinary and not a one Lee Harvey Oswald.
Whaley's fare was over and done by the time Oswald would have left the building.
Whaley was a dupe or worse. I can call Whaley a liar because its been proven that is what he was. Lying for the right reasons doesn't make those lies correct or even allowable in a court of law. Yet suborning perjury is what was allowed from William H Whaley and commission counsel.

It astounds me these lies are still upheld by the Media (Mainstream) and often repeated.

Oswald was never in Whaley's cab.

July 18, 2015 at 1:32 PMEdit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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From Jesse Curry's JFK The Assassination File





--
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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:50 pm

Mick Purdy
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Posts: 1403



Ed:

"It astounds me these lies are still upheld by the Media (Mainstream) and often repeated.



Oswald was never in Whaley's cab."


This is the core of the problem, those little lies compounding one by one until an avalanche of fraudulent circumstantial evidence sent Lee to his date with destiny.

It makes me feel sick to the stomach.



September 4, 2015 at 5:03 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Its like a death of a thousand cuts Mick.
Seems this is exactly what they wanted, to bury the innocent under a pile of garbage.

Makes me wonder about those NEWS services.
Wouldn't it be news that Oswald was not on the bus, in the cab, at the rooming house, murdering Tippit or even on the sixth floor when JFK got shot.
Seems that would be more solid reporting than was done on 11/22/63 with newsmen repeating falsehoods and making things up.

I can see why those news services would rather not talk about what they should have said, asked and done on 11/22. Swept under a rug suits them just fine.


September 5, 2015 at 3:40 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

Von Pein's version




--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




October 2, 2015 at 4:05 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Thx Bart!
Was Mary Hollies a regular rider with Lee on a bus? Which bus?
242 West Davis...

October 8, 2015 at 8:30 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Posts: 1915

Hollies was full of it.....utter rubbish

https://www.facebook.com/mary.hollies.9

Check that out.....
--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




October 8, 2015 at 9:58 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104



Mary Madeline Hollies

Sixth Floor Museum says she rode with Oswald on the bus.
"occasionally rode the same bus as Lee Harvey Oswald"

Yet all her statements say she did not recognize him except on tv she saw him and said she had seen him in the lunchroom numerous times.
Why no mention in her statements about having rode same bus as LHO?
Seems important information. When was the last time she rode with him, to or from work?
Was he living on Elsbeth or another apartment/house. Did they get on at the same stop? Off at same stop? Walk the same way? She lived near intersection of Elsbeth and W. Davis, is that the only connection?

Was she pulling someones leg?

Mary Hollies: The girl in the window

For a number of years the Sixth Floor Museum has conducted an oral history project that interviews individuals and lets them explain how the JFK assassination affected their lives. In January 2011 the museum posted a conversation with Mary Hollies. Ms. Hollies was a young French Canadian that travelled from Montreal and landed a job in the Texas School Book Depository as an underpaid, inventory stock clerk with the Scott Foresman Company in June, 1963. Dallas was quite a change for her. She referred to it as “Hicksville” after leaving a cultural center like Montreal. At the time, Dallas was small, most of the individuals that she met were not forward thinking and the only form of public transportation was the bus. Every morning, she would take the Beckley Street bus downtown and disembark at the corner of Main and Houston. In the fall of 1963 Lee Oswald began riding the same bus to work and eventually the two struck up a friendship. When asked, Ms. Hollies stated “The only one I knew that worked for the School Book Depository was Lee Oswald.” She spoke with Oswald every work day leading up to the assassination and the story she has to tell is in a word “stunning”. After 47 years of silence, her story answers so many questions about Lee Oswald and in turn, raises so many more…

“He posed himself off as a single man”

“Well, he was a character apparently. I found that out later. Many times he sat next to me (on the Beckley bus). And he invited me to communistic meetings that they were having in Dallas. I told him. “Whoa. No. I don’t want to go to that. I’m not a communist.” “Later on, he invited me to go to a party on Davis Street. Candy Barr’s party. Mary questioned him.” You go to strip joints?” No, he said but I have to go to that party to discuss something with someone. That someone, she confirms in a later statement, was Jack Ruby. “He was always inviting me to different things because I rode the bus with him and I also ate lunch with him but he ate off by himself.” Mary Hollies did not realize that Lee was a married man until she saw Marina and the kids on television that weekend.

“I’m going back to Russia soon”

In one conversation Oswald stated that he would be leaving Dallas to return to Russia. “ Yes he told me that he was coming into a lot of money and he would take me to Russia at his expense, and when I told him no I didn’t want to go to Russia, he said, “Well, I know you’re not happy here.” “But I thought…told him I’d think about it, you know (laughing).

“Oh, you don’t have to worry. I’m going to shoot him anyway.”

“There were several of us ladies that went down there (second floor breakroom) to eat. We would brown bag it because we didn’t make much money back in those days. Some of the ladies were discussing Kennedy coming to Dallas. And some of them didn’t approve of a Catholic president. Can you imagine this? Anyway, Lee popped up and said “Oh you don’t have to worry. I’m gonna shoot him anyway.” None of us believed that and we just hushed him up. Said, Oh you’re just running your mouth. You’re not going to do anything.” “We really didn’t believe him but time proved otherwise, as you know. Look what he did.”

Lee Goes Fishing

On the day of the assassination We saw Lee on the freight elevator with something in his hand. “It was a brown paper package and it was as tall as him. Dorothy Garner asked him what was in the package. And he said. “fishing rods!” “She just kind of laughed and said Oh? You plan to go fishing today? Oswald did not reply and continued his ride on the elevator.

The Big Event

Mary Hollies didn’t have an office or even a corner to call her own. She was given a cart to stock books in a caged in area on the fourth floor. She noted. “Floor five and six were all storage, warehouse. It was all open. It had wooden floors. You could hear the sound very easily, especially through the elevator shaft” “I spent a lot of time on the 4th and 5th floors. When it was announced that the president was near, “Alice (Foster) and I said “let’s go up to the fifth floor”. We rang for the elevator and Lee was on the elevator but he didn’t stop for us. He kept going. So we were kind of miffed with him, and we hollered up the shaft. “Hey, you could’ve stopped for us. But he kept on going to the sixth floor, and then he locked the elevator up. When we finally got to the 5th floor we opened a window and we were sitting on the window ledge and we heard clack..clank..clank..and someone was coming down the noisy elevator. It was a black dude coming down (Bonnie Ray Williams). We went to the window and sat there. We had the perfect place to watch.” (Some researchers believe that Mary Hollies was on the 4th floor but she insists that she was on the 5th floor and later moved to the 4th) We could see the president and Jackie coming down Houston and then…. we thought a cannon had gone off. We saw the president slump and we saw Jackie getting on the back of the car. She was hysterical. “I believe it was three shots, two or three. It was definitely not one.” “Alice noticed some smoke over on the little hill that was there. She saw smoke over there but I don’t know that it was a gun being fired. I don’t know what it was. Every one was going crazy. “Like a chicken with its head cut off.”

When did you first realize that Oswald might be involved?
“It occurred to me going home on the bus with him.” A bus that was practically empty. She had been interviewed by the FBI and Secret Service and was released to go home. “As I was waiting at the stop and I got on, Oswald was running to get the bus. He sat right behind me and when he did I realized, oh my God, he did this. (This is problematic for a number of reasons) Mary Hollies later heard the story of a women claiming to be on the bus with Lee after the shooting ( Mary Bledsoe) . Ms Hollies does not believe that this woman was being honest because the bus was nearly empty and she did not see another woman on board.

Stephen Fagin, the director of the oral history program, asked Mary why her original police statement was so understated and why she had intentionally denied any knowledge of Oswald outside of work. “I was terrified because I was not a citizen of this country. “ “I was hiding a lot of information.”



So she was fibbing or senile. She gets out the TSBD at 2:30 about 45 minutes after LHO is arrested in the TT.
Why was she spouting such bs for an oral history?



October 8, 2015 at 2:01 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

She is lying in such an obvious fashion.
She is discrediting herself and any earlier statements.
Is she whistle-blowing?
Making statements so defunct as to her actual sighting...
Is she still terrified? She lives in Dallas,
October 8, 2015 at 2:23 PM

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

Meanwhile in the Cinque Lab, this was recently concocted, with a little outside help:


--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 9, 2015 at 6:48 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Greg at October 9, 2015 at 6:48 PM

Meanwhile in the Cinque Lab, this was recently concocted, with a little outside help:


This is why I am not interested in researching this case any longer.



Let's see if David Josephs laps this bullshit up. He, to give him some credit, actually agreed with the research put together by Greg, Duke Lane, RCD and myself on the fictional bus and taxi rides. I wonder what he is going to do now?



This was his achilles heel when it came to Harvey & Lee because he knew that Armstrong had this wrong. Yet Armstrong still defended his awful research on this matter. It looks like he still cannot let it go and has probably concocted further idiocy to prop it up.



On a related topic, today I learned that not only is Peter Dale Scott attending Judyth Vary Baker's upcoming conference but so too is...



...[drum roll please]...



...Bill Kelly.



I think we all have to accept that this is the way things are, and the way they have always been, and the way they always will be. Common sense and logic is not required concerning this case. Just a hidden agenda and a big bag of shit.



The old bastard is probably still asking, if the bus ride story is false, why Mary Bledsoe knew there was a hole in the elbow of the shirt. I have slowly come to realise over the last five years that Bill Kelly is a fucking idiot.

October 9, 2015 at 7:20 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Haha "cites twelve people"...what were all the deciples present?
Make a nice last supper painting, Oswald as JC. Bus transfer as holy grail... what a laugh!

If they hold tight to bus rides and taxis that never held Lee Oswald why question their beliefs on lunch rooms and rifle sacks. Why question them about Prayer Man and his purse.
They are all lost, wandering souls. Pity them not, they have that window (not even the original) on the sixth floor as a shrine and each other to lie to.

Its like a Liars Anonymous meeting run by JVB, with Judyth leading the lies, Bill is just lying to himself.
October 9, 2015 at 7:55 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

This is why I am not interested in researching this case any longer.

Let's see if David Josephs laps this bullshit up. He, to give him some credit, actually agreed with the research put together by Greg, Duke Lane, RCD and myself on the fictional bus and taxi rides. I wonder what he is going to do now?

This was his achilles heel when it came to Harvey & Lee because he knew that Armstrong had this wrong. Yet Armstrong still defended his awful research on this matter. It looks like he still cannot let it go and has probably concocted further idiocy to prop it up.


Before even reading your comment I was toying with the idea of asking if anyone else had detected a rise in the amount of shit being tossed about at the moment. I know it has always been thrown, but I feel sure the quantity has risen while the quality has sunk.


I fully understand why you choose not to subject yourself to it any more, and I am sorry for any time in the past where I have been judgmental about that.


As for PDS - I emailed him telling him about the people he is about to rub shoulders with. I did this on the off chance he was unaware of their backgrounds. I am disappointed he didn't see fit to respond. But then, I shouldn't be surprised either. He requested a copy of my first book through a third party, so I organized to get one to him. Again, nada. Not so much as a thank you.


Lee, your work (and it WAS your work, and to a lesser extent, Duke) on the bus ride will stand the test of time. I'll be doing my bit to try and do it justice, and with any luck, immortalize it, in an upcoming volume.

--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons



Ed. Ledoux

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:52 pm

Paul Francisco Paso
Administrator
Posts: 729 Sentimental old fools. Romanticizing this case gets you nowhere. They are merely entrenching themselves in the plot. Especially those fuckwits who associate with Armstrong and JVB. I've got a soft spot for Bill Kelly but its getting harder. PM has changed my mind about a lot researchers I once respected. Its a case of I can't believe PM is not Oswald and if they sincerely do then I don't believe anything they have to offer. Its that simple. Dismissing the brilliant bus and cab deconstruction should've been my first clue about these old geezers.
October 9, 2015 at 8:17 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
Administrator
Posts: 921

Paul Francisco Paso at October 9, 2015 at 8:17 PM

Sentimental old fools. Romanticizing this case gets you nowhere. They are merely entrenching themselves in the plot. Especially those fuckwits who associate with Armstrong and JVB. I've got a soft spot for Bill Kelly but its getting harder. PM has changed my mind about a lot researchers I once respected. Its a case of I can't believe PM is not Oswald and if they sincerely do then I don't believe anything they have to offer. Its that simple. Dismissing the brilliant bus and cab deconstruction should've been my first clue about these old geezers.

Damn right.



Each and every piece of evidence produced whilst deconstructing the bus and taxi rides was greeted with the same bollocks from old Bill Kelly.



"Why did Bledsoe know there was a hole in the elbow of Oswald's shirt?"



When old Bill was shown how the hole in the elbow was originally two holes in the elbows in Bledsoe's FBI statement before it was changed by Forrest Sorrels to only containing one hole in the elbow, well old Bill would go quiet for a while.



Time would pass by. Further discussion would take place. Then old Bill would pop back up out of his termite hill and ask:



"Why did Bledsoe know there was a hole in the elbow of Oswald's shirt?"



Every fucking time. Like a Chatty Cathy doll. "Why did Bledsoe know there was a hole in the elbow of Oswald's shirt?" "Why did Bledsoe know there was a hole in the elbow of Oswald's shirt?"



Same deal with the Baker-Truly horse shit. "The second floor lunhcroom encounter exonerates Oswald." "The second floor lunhcroom encounter exonerates Oswald." "The second floor lunhcroom encounter exonerates Oswald."



If the second floor lunchroom encounter exonerates Oswald then why the fuck is he still guilty? For fuck's sake.
October 9, 2015 at 10:28 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Paul Francisco Paso
Administrator
Posts: 729

Bill is too old to leave the second floor, Lee. He needs to take the elevator down to the first floor. Maybe he can see Oswald from there.
October 10, 2015 at 10:15 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Stan Dane
Moderator
Posts: 1239

If the second floor lunchroom encounter exonerates Oswald then why the fuck is he still guilty? For fuck's sake.



No matter how you slice & dice it, the Second Floor lunchroom encounter will NEVER have ANY effect in getting the Kennedy case reopened. Period. Won't lift the Reopen Meter needle off its bottom peg. Showing that Lee Oswald was on the First Floor out front, however, is horse of a different color. A whole new ball game.



Litmus test, anyone?



It's time to leave the weak, the senile, the willfully ignorant, and the deniers alone to themselves and move on. If the Kennedy case is ever to be reopened, they will NEVER have a hand in it. We don't need them. They gum up the works. The future is in reaching new people.




October 10, 2015 at 1:06 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
Moderator
Posts: 1411

It's time to leave the weak, the senile, the willfully ignorant, and the deniers alone to themselves and move on.


Amen.
October 10, 2015 at 1:19 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2048

The future is in reaching new people.


And amen to that.
--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


October 10, 2015 at 2:06 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
Moderator
Posts: 1915

Can I get a halleluja with that!?
--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

Prayer Man on Twitter: https://twitter.com/PMisLeeOswald




October 10, 2015 at 4:40 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

"REVEREND!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZG0faW-LRZU
October 10, 2015 at 5:31 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

http://www.reopenkennedycase.org/apps/forums/topics/show/13262400-oswald-leaving-the-tsbd-

My response to John Armstrong's Harvey And Lee Leaving The TSBD

Enjoy!
October 18, 2015 at 5:30 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104



"Someone once said that Oswald must have been the only assassin in history to try and get away using public transportation.

It would be like a bank robber man lugging the bag of money with him out on the street and hailing a taxi or waiting for the bus."

March 7, 2014 John Kirsch




John is right and Oswald would not be able to see from the sixth floor that traffic had been stopped at Elm and Record?
Or the bus behind the Marsalis bus was the Beckley bus which would take him to his rooming house rather than blocks away???
Or that he could be wanted and yet is strolling the streets of Dallas in front of every cop heading to the TSBD?
Or he is obviously in a hurry to go kill Tippit, (sarcasm) so he has a cab, that left before he gets to it, drive him past the place where he lives??
Or he only had four 6.5 bullets and Fifteen .38's and a dollar & 23 cents to accomplish this assassination with. He was very frugal. Even kept the transfer, and snuck into the movies to save a buck...90 cents actually... Rolling Eyes
November 23, 2015 at 6:15 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Some notes,

JC Dohrity and Brown supposedly shows Cecil the transfer.
Yet Sims and Boyd placed it in a sealed envelope and write over the seal before this could happen.

No overpressure, Indented writing, is seen on the transfer from the writing, but further testing would be needed to verify this by use of an apparatus commonly referred to as ESDA, short for Electro-static Detection Apparatus. Transfer could have avoided it as it is smaller than the area wrote on. (envelope was larger than transfer)

Sims testified he did not remember whom he gave the transfer to, was not initialed by JC or Brown (envelope or Transfer) thus breaking its chain of custody. Sims and Boyd were not present when it was supposedly shown to Cecil.

No tests were perfomed on the transfer yet the ring and bracelet were examined and tested for residue, compartments, etc.
Why no fingerprinting of the transfer? We know that answer.

Cecil is never asked how many transfers he accepted, and what happens to an accepted one by a driver!

Bus ride is bollocks. Transfer is excused from the proceedings.
Cheers~ Ed
December 4, 2015 at 11:11 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
Moderator
Posts: 1104

Barto has found a most interesting movie.
I pulled a clip from it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG4-zWrQ53Y
Please watch.

You will see a Bus driver whom does not appear to Cecil McWatters.
With him is William Whaley, the cab driver.

My Italian is rusty but it explains the cab and bus driver were brought in for statements as they drove Oswald to his house (rooming house?) or Casa.

Who is this grizzled pipe smoking pirate that is said to be the bus driver??


December 6, 2015 at 6:31 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
Moderator
Posts: 1915

not related but I think that is Kent Biffle at the very end of this clip!
--

_________________________________________________________________________________

Prayer Man The Movie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0B8JhOe3KU

Prayer Man website: http://www.prayer-man.com/

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December 6, 2015 at 6:40 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Maybe that is Cecil, they had him bathe and flea dipped him for his WC testimony and sent him to acting school to loose the squinty eye and swashbuckler appearance...

Yep that looks like Biffle same as in Alyea
December 6, 2015 at 8:33 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Anyone know who the officer is next to Scroggins?
December 16, 2015 at 8:13 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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He is in between Fritz and Wade in the below shot



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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 2:59 pm

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Barto at December 16, 2015 at 10:41 AM

He is in between Fritz and Wade in the below shot


I think he is probably Manning C. Clements:




December 19, 2015 at 10:17 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Ed Ledoux at February 14, 2015 at 9:56 PM

Lee Farley at February 12, 2015 at 12:52 AM

Redfern at February 11, 2015 at 11:40 PM

Lee,

I admit to accepting (perhaps blindly) the official story concerning Oswald residing at 1026 North Beckley. However, the arguments you have presented in recent years mean that there are nagging doubts. I shall have to plough through all the relevant information to re-evaluate just how reliable the Warren narrative is on this issue. There are certainly connections between 1026 and DPD personnel that have been brushed over down the years (as has the story concerning a visit by Ruby).

With regard to any plot to frame Oswald, how essential would it have been to have him residing in Oak Cliff (at least during week-days)?

An other angle that concerns me about Oswald never setting foot in 1026 is that it ramps up the number of people who'd have to lie. Again, I'd have to check, but from memory several people who stayed there described him in detail.

Just how reliable would they turn out to be? Earlene Roberts put her foot in it within days by blurting out the story of the police car at 1 pm. Both her and Gladys Johnson gave affidavits speaking of a further visit by DPD before Oswald was officially identified and well before police supposedly knew of the North Beckley address.

Nevertheless, given the lies elsewhere in the Warren version, nothing can be taken for granted.

As a possible side-note, I am convinced Oswald changed his trousers. As for his shirt, it is possible he changed this too - he had one that was similar in appearance.



Returning to the getaway, the angle that struck me about McWatters was this exchange:



Mr. BALL - What did they tell you?

Mr. McWATTERS - Well, they told me that they had a transfer that I had issued that was cut for Lamar Street at 1 o'clock, and they wanted to know if I knew anything about it. And I, after I looked at the transfer and my punch, said yes, that is the transfer I issued because it had my punch mark on it.


I don't believe anyone other than the bus driver would have been able to deduce the transfer was punched at Lamar Street.

Certain officers within DPD seemed absolutely positive about this evidence and it was sent to Washington in the early hours. If we are to believe Jesse Curry's words on TV, he wasn't apprised of this information until well into the Saturday.



Larry Crafard is obviously worthy of several threads to himself. While it suited the Warren lawyers to cover up any role he had in the assassination, the sheer length of his testimony raises eyebrows. What on earth was that all about?


If any of us can crack the 1026 North Beckley nut we can all pack up and go home because it will be job done, Redfern.

There is absolutley no credible evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald ever lived at that house other than the small box of stuff that law enforcement pulled out of it. Evidence that could have very easily been swapped out with the person's stuff that was actually living there. Why were Hubert and Griffin so convinced that Larry Crafard might have been in William Whaley's cab? I'm sure they didn't pull it out of their backside. In the staff memo they produced, and it wasn't the first they produced that named Larry Crafard as a possible suspect, they link Whaley's knowledge of Ruby together with their own knowledge that Crafard had been mistaken for Oswald by a couple of dozen people. These men weren't idiots and neither were their superiors up the chain of command. They knew the bus ride was bogus and they knew the taxi ride was bogus and they had a handle on the best fit alternative that did fit the evidence they were reviewing. Not one lead concerning the suspicions they raised was followed up. None of the information they said they wanted from Bledsoe, Roberts, Whaley, and McWatters was collected either through interview or testimony. These junior staff lawyers knew in March 1964 what we now know a half a century later. Their work counted for nought because the seniors used their info to make sure how to continue covering shit up.


EDIT: Actually Griffin was as much of a bullshitter as the rest of them because I've just thought on that he was part of the crew that interviewed Earl RUBY and, after writing the staff memo with Hubert, actually delivered some of the WORST questioning that exists in the entire testimony record. Stuff like this:


Mr. GRIFFIN. How about Larry Crafard, did you pay him any money?

Mr. RUBY. Larry Crafard, I think we just gave him a few dollars, $5 maybe because he was broke when he was living on the road, he didn’t have a dime, so I think I gave him some money.

Mr. GRIFFIN. Did Larry incidentally contact you any time while you were in Detroit?

Mr. RUBY. No, no; I wish he would have, because he hitchhiked all the way down there, and I was driving at the same time, but he didn’t know I lived there, and we--

Mr. GRIFFIN. How was he notified to come to the trial?

Mr. RUBY. I don’t know. If I remember correctly he came on his own. He just thought that when all this came out about, you know, Jack getting him to take that picture of Earl Warren, he had the camera or something, I forgot the full details myself, but he is the one who took the picture, right, if I am not mistaken, and he just thought he should come down to help Jack as much as he possibly could. Could I go a little further?

Mr. GRIFFIN. I don’t really want to pry into this unless this is something you care to reveal.

Mr. RUBY. The most important thing is coming up now; I mean one of the most important things.

Mr. GRIFFIN. All right. I do want to reflect this -- that I don’t want to push you into saying things, talking about subjects that you would rather not talk about, and I realize that this is one of them.


I mean, WTF? You really couldn't make this shit up could you?


My major issue when trying to make sense of this case is the enormity of it. Each segment that you feel you have a handle on suddenly bears a relationship with something else that exists in the record and the segment suddenly balloons. For instance, Mr. and Mrs. Johnson, the owners of 1026 North Beckley, are dodgy as fuck. My research into the Marion Meharg story leads into a series of nuisance phone calls that began plaguing the property in the months after the assassination. Soon after these phone calls Earlene Roberts left her employment there. The caller was asking about a David Miller who, the caller claimed, lived there prior to the assassination and was "Oswalds' friend." Arthur Johnson was overheard talking about this with someone in a coffee shop and was specifically asking the person he was with whether he had ever heard of a David LEON Miller. When the FBI interviewed Johnson he claimed this conversation never took place. Interestingly, David Miller was a pseudonym for David Yaras. The phone calls were put down to a bitterly jealous and somewhat obsessive Marion Meharg who was estranged from his wife and sons after she left him for someone called David Miller whom she married. No interview with Mrs. Miller exists but the FBI did interview her mother who painted Meharg as a deranged lunatic. Coincidently, the mother's name was Bernice CLICK. By another coincidence the neighbours of Arthur and Gladys Johsons were called the Millers. NEVER INTERVIEWED. Not even interviewed when it came to finding out which neighbour had been overheard having a conversation about Jack Ruby parking on their driveway when he went to visit Oswald at the 1026 property.


If an Oswald was living at 1026 North Beckley then it wasn't our Lee Oswald and it certainly wasn't a CIA doppelganger raised from birth to be an Oswald twin. It was someone simply pretending to be him and this is where, I believe, Larry Crafard comes in. It's no coincidence that Jack Ruby met with Bertha Cheek, Earlene Roberts sister, on November 18th, 1963.


I'll say one thing about some of the people who stayed at 1026 North Beckley and were interviewed. They should have gotten their stories straight before trying to convince us about Oswald's residence there. I will not accept that two Mr. LEEs were living at that property at the same time - Mr. O. H. Lee and Mr. H. (LEON) Lee. I do not accept Mr. Herbert Leon Lee's story about sharing a room with James Watson because when James Watson was interviewed he never mentions Mr. Herbert Leon Lee. Mr Herbert Leon Lee says he doesn't remember Lee Oswald living there but that James Watson might and try as I might, I have a really hard time believing that Mr. Herbert Leon Lee left being a floor layer after 30 years to become a Police Officer.


There is a much bigger story to 1026 North Beckley and we haven't yet uncovered it.


You are right about how the police knew it was a transfer from LAMAR. They wouldn't. But as we see in the McWatters testimony it appears that the DPD were telling him what happened rather than the other way around.

A 1956 Station Wagon was owned by Mildred Meharg.Wink
This is a smoking gun right here. Who would have called this in?




Is it BERNIECE OR BERNICE?

Weisberg Collection
FR 4-0072 Dallas: Mrs. Berniece Click, 203 Brodie. (address is off South Beckley)
and
FE 7-5185 Dallas: Mrs. B. K. (Bernice) Click, 905 Barnett St. (Meharg caper).

FBI documnet gives her address as MRS. BERNICE CLICK ~ 905 Barnett

Page 17 is the best!
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20071/71c.pdf




Mabel Berniece Click Born on 10 Mar 1899. Mabel Berniece married Walter Raymond McClellan. She passed away on 11 Mar 1992 in Elkhart, Indiana, USA.








Mildred was married to Marion Meharg
And remarried David Miller
She married to a Jenkins as her daughters are of that name.

Did Mildred have a brother? A Darrell or something like Daryl?

Found a Royce Darrell Click in Harris Tx married Linda Marie Achten could be from '60's.

And these living Darrell Clicks
864-939-2470 - Darrell Click, Hurtsdale Rd, Clinton, South Carolina

218-212-6124 - Darrell Click, SE 8th St, Grand Rapids, Minnesota

910-382-4588 - Darrell Click, State Rd 1142, Jacksonville, North Carolina

203-384-5947 - Darrell Click, Standish St, Bridgeport, Connecticut

417-300-0783 - Darrell Click, N Rock Island Ave, Springfield, Missouri


And deceased Click's

Darrell Click Born: Jun 14, 1950 Deceased: Sep 5, 1997 Location: Amarillo, TX .....(TOO YOUNG IN '63)

William Click Born: Oct 26, 1884 Deceased: Nov, 1967 Location: Dallas, TX (An old cabbie with middle/nickname of Darrell maybe?)Smile









This made me do adouble take, though not relavent.

LANSING - Mrs. Joyce Rash Bledsoe, 59, the wife of Darrell Click Bledsoe, died Wednesday at Forsyth Memorial Hospital.




Okay if we find Darrell Click we have made history!!


Here is the other mystery name, J A Brourantus

http://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth339517/m1/7/


Sorry to jump back in time so far on this thread....but i just came across this post from Feb. '15 by Ed replying to Lee Farley in which Lee mentioned a story about anonymous calls to Beckley post assassination asking for a David Leon Miller who supposedly lived there and was friends with LHO & Ruby. He went on to point out that David Leon Miller was a pseudonym for Dave Yaras. Has anyone noticed that this rotund man in the RR yard resembles Yaras? I've never heard much talk about Yaras being one of the possible shooters, but that story Lee and Ed posted is intriguing given this film still and Bower's account of the men he saw behind the fence.:




December 19, 2015 at 10:40 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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I've called him (Miller) Linda, and left a message. I will call again.

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 3:13 pm

Ed Ledoux
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How is Tracy D Click directly or indirectly involved in the death of JFK for the city to apply this rule to investigators/press and prevent coping Death Certs etc.?
Could it be that he was the Click that gave a Lee Oswald a ride?

Recall that Click had a nickname of Bo, and the Teamsters referred Hal Verb to Pott(s) at Dallas Transit Co.
Why would Roseboro of the Teamsters not save Hal the trip?
Seems the Teamsters would know whom their members are.
Why did not Roseboro say if there was a teamster by the name of Click, and send Hal to that shop?
Why send Hal on a wild goose chase at DTC

Something stinks...
December 28, 2015 at 10:14 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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   Greg at December 28, 2015 at 9:15 PM

   It seems someone back ion '67 was burrowing in to the plane death of Tracy D Click and the city didn't like it.

       Dallas - Times Herald says the Dallas Bureau of Vital Statistics, by order of the Texas Health Department and the Secret Service, has cut off access to routine public records on the deaths of principals in the assassination of President Kennedy.

       City attorney Alex Bickley said restrictions been in effect some time and include the press. Rule is interpreted to include persons now dead and only indirectly involved in events of the assassination.

       State health commissioner J. E. Peavy said in Austin rule was made to preclude anyone duplicating death certificates. "Legitimate press" might be allowed to see and copy, but "if for speculation on events" each case would be judged on merits. AP ldn 225acs

       See Click plane crash 3/12/67.

       3/12/67 Curious press treatment of plane crash in bad weather at Jefferson City, MO, which killed four Dallas businessmen, including one Tracy D. Click, of Irving. AP carried only the original plane crash story. Dallas Morning News carried no story at all [although it carried other plane crashes, even one abroad, but did carry death notice in classified ad columns for one of the men, not Click. Dallas Morning News & AP

       Dallas Times-Herald not checked, not available.

   

   

   

   

   

   

   The above from a windows doc held in the Weisberg Collection.

Wow, Greg! That is some fascinating...and downright creepy... story! Sets off my alarm bells.  To think they could cut off public access to vital records like that except to "legitimate" media members and then only on a case by case basis! And "if for speculation on events" is broad and arbitrary - could be constued to apply to any research into the Kennedy assassination.   Ya, but if if you're Dan Rather or Hugh Aynesworth (or any other covert card carrying member of Operation Mockingbird), COME ON DOWN boys and get yer records so you can tell the public there's nothing to the story! Sounds completely unconstitutional. Too bad no one sued them at the time! And it is extremely suspicious that 4 local men from Dallas were killed in a small plane crash and yet it wasn't even covered by the Dallas press! Seems unheard of! That right there tells me there may be something fishy about Tracy "D." Click.  I'll do a genealogical search when i have time and see what i can come up with. But if  they deemed access to information about him so critical to suppress/censure that they were willing to go to that extent in '67, by now they could have digitally expunged his very existence. Btw...do you happen to have the link to the Wiesburg doc so i can bookmark or download it?
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"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 29, 2015 at 1:43 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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   Ed Ledoux at December 28, 2015 at 10:14 PM

   How is Tracy D Click directly or indirectly involved in the death of JFK for the city to apply this rule to investigators/press and prevent coping Death Certs etc.?
   Could it be that he was the Click that gave a Lee Oswald a ride?

   Recall that Click had a nickname of Bo, and the Teamsters referred Hal Verb to Pott(s) at Dallas Transit Co.
   Why would Roseboro of the Teamsters not save Hal the trip?
   Seems the Teamsters would know whom their members are.
   Why did not Roseboro say if there was a teamster by the name of Click, and send Hal to that shop?
   Why send Hal on a wild goose chase at DTC

   Something stinks...

Ed, (Greg et al...)

"Bo" you say?! GOT HIM!!!

I got absolutely no hits for a Tracy D. Click or a Tracy Click on familysearch.org or findagrave, in MO, TX or the entire US who died in '66 or '67.

I finally searched simply for T. Click on findagrave in Tx cemeteries...scrolled down the list and... BINGO!

His name was not "Tracy" but "Travy" - his father was a "Travy" also. He was 30 yrs old in '63. Married, Had several children.

Corp. Travy Delano "Bo" Click, USMC, Korea

Photo from findagrave:



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"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 29, 2015 at 3:05 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply


Ed Ledoux
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Kick ass Linda!

Click Travy Delano 8-31-1933 Male, Mother; Helen Elizabeth Ballow  Father; Travy Melechi Click. Couty; Tarrant

DOH! Guess whom was in the VFW (recall talk about FBI using the VFW informants)

WELCOMING COMMirrEE—Tlie welcome mat wab out Satuiday as VFW Post 2494 held open hou.ie celebrating die first anniversary of their organization since the Post was reactivated. Friends called throughout the alternoon to itispect tiie attractive new quarters. Pictured are Travy Click, vice commander; DJ , Nesbitt, past commander; and Melvin Huff, Post Commander.--Photo by Davies.

This was the opening of the new post,

MAYOR SNIPS THE RIBBON--The new Post home of tlie local VFW 01 ganizauon was officall> opened Saturday afternoon. Post Commander Melvin Neif gave an inspirational de^licatory address, re»>alling the memorable dale of December 7, 1941. After prayer by the Post Chaplain, Mayor Paul Laird cut the ribbon, officially opening the attractive Post at 802 West Shady Grove Road


Second pic, first person, is Click
December 29, 2015 at 3:28 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Travis Click (father)
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=32708969
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December 29, 2015 at 3:46 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Sent a message to Vickie Ballow about Travy.

December 29, 2015 at 3:51 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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FWIW...Interesting tidbit...his findagrave memorial was posted by "Texas CSA" - which i'm pretty sure stands for Confederate States of America since his bio says he's mostly interested in graves of Confederate soldiers. So i'm guessing (actually i'm pretty confident) he's some Texas right-winger with a confederate flag sticker on his pickup truck! (And of course a gun rack). Here's the C.S.A. website intro post (all caps theirs). OMFG! These people are some cRaZy fucking TX rednecks!:

THE INTERIM GOVERNMENT FOR THE CONFEDERATE STATES OF AMERICA IS AN ASSEMBLAGE OF AMERICANS SEEKING REDRESS

Welcome to the official website of the Interim Government for the Confederate States of America.

The Confederates States of America was founded in 1861 and currently exist under the occupation of the national government of the United States of America. Our C.S.A. Constitution currently exists in a state of forced exile awaiting freedom loving Americans to rise and take up the banner of Truth and Justice and regain our States Sovereignty, and the founders system of governance. Progress is being made and the efforts to restore our beloved Confederacy continue to grow. With perseverance and dedication, the men and women of the Confederacy will have their Liberty. So help us God

**

Ok....you can barf now! I'm a smartass &
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"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 29, 2015 at 3:53 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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   Ed Ledoux at December 29, 2015 at 3:28 AM

   Kick ass Linda!

   Click Travy Delano 8-31-1933 Male, Mother; Helen Elizabeth Ballow  Father; Travy Melechi Click. Couty; Tarrant

   DOH! Guess whom was in the VFW (recall talk about FBI using the VFW informants)

   WELCOMING COMMirrEE—Tlie welcome mat wab out Satuiday as VFW Post 2494 held open hou.ie celebrating die first anniversary of their organization since the Post was reactivated. Friends called throughout the alternoon to itispect tiie attractive new quarters. Pictured are Travy Click, vice commander; DJ , Nesbitt, past commander; and Melvin Huff, Post Commander.--Photo by Davies.

   This was the opening of the new post,

   MAYOR SNIPS THE RIBBON--The new Post home of tlie local VFW 01 ganizauon was officall> opened Saturday afternoon. Post Commander Melvin Neif gave an inspirational de^licatory address, re»>alling the memorable dale of December 7, 1941. After prayer by the Post Chaplain, Mayor Paul Laird cut the ribbon, officially opening the attractive Post at 802 West Shady Grove Road



   Second pic, first person, is Click

Thanks Ed! Somehow I thought you'd like that! Very Happy Can't wait for Greg to read these posts!
Thanks for  your VFW uploads! I'm just guessing he might have been KKK too if the findagrave contributor had some personal connection. Hell, 1/2 the DPD was KKK.

I noticed the woman that uploaded his photo was a Ballow - so has to be a relative on his mother's side. Here's a search i did for him on familysearch.org once i found his real name was "Travy" not Tracey. Note he had several kids.:

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22Travy%20Delano%22~%20%2Bsurname%3AClick~%20%2Bbirth_place%3ATexas~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1933-1933~%20%2Bdeath_year%3A1967-1967~;

As Emeril says: "BAMMMMMMM!!" Cool
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"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 29, 2015 at 4:03 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Ed, i can't see that photo very well. Do you have a clearer version? If not do you mean the guy in the white/light suit? And what is the date on that VFW story? Sure would be nice to have a ca. '63 photo, although i'm sure he probably hadn't changed that much if the findagrave photo is from the '50s for example,  He was only 33 in '63
--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 29, 2015 at 4:16 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Posts: 273

Found some more stuff in my search for him. There is this document from the Wiesburg collection. The bottom line has his exact name without the "Bo" from the Mar. 13, 1967 Irving Daily News!

Also did a search for him on e-yearbooks. Came up empty for "Travy Click," "Travy Delano Click" and "TD Click". Finally tried just "Bo Click" and got one page from 1965. It looks like this is him and the name looks short like it has 2 letters for a first name. Not sure what this is since i'm not a paying member. Can someone here who is a member retrieve it? Maybe he was a coach, teacher or something? Not sure...What the heck is "Ray Juneau"?! Looks like a restaurant.

Here's the full page and a comparison - it's him for sure.:








Addendum: I just was reading it's a real estate firm. Below the big yearbook photo it says "President T. D. Click"


--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.”    ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 3:21 pm

Greg
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Ray Juneau Real Estate
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December 29, 2015 at 7:21 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Linda Giovanna Zambanini at December 29, 2015 at 4:16 AM

Ed, i can't see that photo very well. Do you have a clearer version? If not do you mean the guy in the white/light suit? And what is the date on that VFW story? Sure would be nice to have a ca. '63 photo, although i'm sure he probably hadn't changed that much if the findagrave photo is from the '50s for example, He was only 33 in '63

Its a 1957 article Linda.



Publication:

The Irving News Record

Location:

Irving, Texas

Issue Date:

Thursday, December 12, 1957

Page:

Page 26

http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/44009684/

Yes light colored suit.

Sorry for smallish image :/


December 29, 2015 at 10:57 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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December 29, 2015 at 11:39 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Ed Ledoux at December 29, 2015 at 11:39 AM


Thank you for the clear photo, Ed!

Also...wanted to say, I sort of jumped into the middle of this thread via a link to it i found one day recently in googling something else - i think it was McWatters when Barto posted those Due K photos of Scroggins and McWatters - and i had not (and still have not) read it all.... but from what i've now read it's really fantastic, groundbreaking work on this transit transfer issue! It's just this sort of paradigm shifting work that makes ROKC THE place to be for JFK assassination research! Smile Thanks for all your hard work on this - excellent!
--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.” ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 30, 2015 at 8:51 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Thanks so much Linda!

Yes I thought it could have been a cabbie as he had the pencil behind the ear like cabbies do to fill out their logs.
Do you have a Scoggins pic for comparision?
Or as I said they cleaned up Cecil really well later, put him in a uniform, etc.
December 30, 2015 at 3:51 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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You're welcome!
Barto posted at least a couple photos of Scroggins in his Due K file. If they ever make another JFK movie and need someone to play his part, i nominate Joe Pesce! Smile He's an "interesting" looking guy! LOL!



--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.” ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 30, 2015 at 4:49 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Here is Cecil and "Cecil?"




December 30, 2015 at 7:13 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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The Marion Meharg story was one of the most interesting stories I ever researched. Ultimately, it leads into something of a dead-end but I still believe there is something to it. As soon as his story met with 1026 North Beckley I knew there was something important about it especially now we know that 1026 North Beckley wasn't the innocuous boarding house that we were led to believe it was...
December 30, 2015 at 8:36 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Hasan Yusuf
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If they ever make another JFK movie and need someone to play his part, i nominate Joe Pesce! Smile He's an "interesting" looking guy! LOL!


I agree, Linda. They sure do look alike to me.

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sat 20 Aug 2016, 3:38 pm

Ed Ledoux
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Yes it was Lee,

Miller has a working phone and if you pm me some questions I can try and get some answers, or do you want to call?

For everyone not familiar with Marion or David,
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t585-the-case-of-the-nuisance-phone-calls-redux

On December 2nd, 1963, FBI Special Agent Alfred C. Ellington received a phone call. The caller, who allegedly didn’t give his name, claimed that on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963, within minutes of the assassination of the President, he “…observed a man come out of the Texas School Book Depository building, jump off the loading dock…run across Houston Street and get into a 1956 green and white Chevrolet station wagon [and] that he further observed the license number on this vehicle and believes the first four digits were PW 17.”

The caller’s name was Marion Meharg and the call would become a long forgotten but incredibly strange by-story to the events of November 22nd, 1963.

Marion B. Meharg was born in Terrell, Texas, on the 7th of April 1912 and was divorced from a woman named Mildred. The 51 year old had two children with her, both boys, as well as two step-daughters and the separation by all accounts was a messy one. Marion Meharg wanted custody of his boys and in November 1963 was calling his ex-mother-in-law to try and establish where his children were. Mildred Meharg had remarried in September, 1963, to a man named David Leon Miller.

Mildred’s mother when interviewed by the FBI painted a very unfavourable picture of Meharg. The mother of Mildred Meharg was called Mrs. B. K. (Bernice) Click. A surname that will strongly resonate with seasoned JFK researchers and is a curiosity that I personally find quite intriguing. Click told authorities that Meharg had threatened her daughter and had threatened to kill himself. The FBI immediately took Mrs. Click at her word and put Meharg down as a suicide risk with no further investigation into these threats needed.


Bernice and Bo share any relations?
December 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Posts: 273

Ed Ledoux at December 30, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Here is Cecil and "Cecil?"




Wow...i'm confused i guess. I thought the guy in the middle was supposed to be Scroggins? Are you saying they are the same person "Cecil" is just a manicured version of Scroggins?!
December 31, 2015 at 12:51 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Scoggings in the middle that is correct, I think Lee pointed this out earlier this month
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December 31, 2015 at 12:54 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Ed Ledoux at December 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM

Yes it was Lee,

Miller has a working phone and if you pm me some questions I can try and get some answers, or do you want to call?

For everyone not familiar with Marion or David,
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t585-the-case-of-the-nuisance-phone-calls-redux

On December 2nd, 1963, FBI Special Agent Alfred C. Ellington received a phone call. The caller, who allegedly didn’t give his name, claimed that on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963, within minutes of the assassination of the President, he “…observed a man come out of the Texas School Book Depository building, jump off the loading dock…run across Houston Street and get into a 1956 green and white Chevrolet station wagon [and] that he further observed the license number on this vehicle and believes the first four digits were PW 17.”

The caller’s name was Marion Meharg and the call would become a long forgotten but incredibly strange by-story to the events of November 22nd, 1963.

Marion B. Meharg was born in Terrell, Texas, on the 7th of April 1912 and was divorced from a woman named Mildred. The 51 year old had two children with her, both boys, as well as two step-daughters and the separation by all accounts was a messy one. Marion Meharg wanted custody of his boys and in November 1963 was calling his ex-mother-in-law to try and establish where his children were. Mildred Meharg had remarried in September, 1963, to a man named David Leon Miller.

Mildred’s mother when interviewed by the FBI painted a very unfavourable picture of Meharg. The mother of Mildred Meharg was called Mrs. B. K. (Bernice) Click. A surname that will strongly resonate with seasoned JFK researchers and is a curiosity that I personally find quite intriguing. Click told authorities that Meharg had threatened her daughter and had threatened to kill himself. The FBI immediately took Mrs. Click at her word and put Meharg down as a suicide risk with no further investigation into these threats needed.


Bernice and Bo share any relations?

This is all new to me and absolutely fascinating! Just started reading a little bit of the link you posted and it gave me goosebumps! This is worthy of a major dig!

I have to go...but here's my contribution to start it out. 1940 Census : Bernice Click was born in 1901, married a Blache (sic) K. Click and her daughter Mildred was born in in 1924. According to the 1930 census her husband's name was "Blake" not "Blache".

Bernices full name was MILDRED Bernice Click - born 1/10/1901, d. 6/6/86.

https://familysearch.org/search/record/results?count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3A%22bernice%20k%22~%20%2Bsurname%3Aclick~%20%2Bbirth_place%3Atexas~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1901-1901~%20%2Bother_givenname%3AMildred~" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">First 3 hits on this page


December 31, 2015 at 1:34 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
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Posts: 273

Well this pisses me off! I couldn't get the links for the '30 or '40 census to post so i edited and took them out then put in the link for the entire page ... same thing! The link is a mess and if you click on it it's dead. What's up with the links on this site?!

Ok... here is Mildred BERNICE Click's findagrave....and i'll be damned... her husband's name was "Blachley"! Not Blake! Never heard of such a name. I just assumed Blachley was a transcription error. Only in Texas would you find someone named "Blachley"! LOL! Here's his findagrave complete with gravemarker with "Blachley" on it!


--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.” ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


December 31, 2015 at 1:54 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Great stuff Linda!
Yeah don't use the link option, its worthless. Just post the url's.
Mildred and Blachley Click. Got it!

Yep its an interesting set of coincindences and turns with the Wade press conference, the air crash, the Meharg and Miller bits, Bo Click, etc, etc.

Blachley was likely a past relatives name (Surname?) they gave to him as a first name,
http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/BLACHLEY


The picture of Scoggins in the middle of Cecil pics was to show the difference.
The I Due Kennedy movie said cab driver and bus driver, if you have any Italian language skills watch the movie and you will hear the two described as Bus and Cab drivers. I took french but its similar enough to make out autobus = bus.
Since both Whaley and Scogins were cabbies I found it odd they were depicted as the Cab and Bus driver in the film.

Italians correct me please if I am incorrect.
December 31, 2015 at 4:50 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Linda Giovanna Zambanini at December 31, 2015 at 12:51 AM

Ed Ledoux at December 30, 2015 at 7:13 PM

Here is Cecil and "Cecil?"




Wow...i'm confused i guess. I thought the guy in the middle was supposed to be Scroggins? Are you saying they are the same person "Cecil" is just a manicured version of Scroggins?!

Nelson Benton had this to say @ 13:55

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4A3cF2-52A&index=4&list=PLPpNRGOLAlsdIARgRhMsH6svPBWWwCGGh

Un-named presumably a bus and cab driver.... exactly like the I Due Kennedy film states...albeit in Italian.

Looks like two flipping cabbies to me, actually Whaley looks more of a clean public transport driver of a bus (like we see Cecil looking like for his starring roll in the later CBS videos, where as the other feller (Scoggins) is a private fare kinda looking cabbie! WTH?

The reporters are GUESSING these two are a cab and bus driver because that is the story from Oswald? Fritz? Curry..nope Curry was a Negro in a Station Wagon guy, he didn't get onboard the bus cab junk till after he was pressured by the FBI and Hoover to can any talk of conspiracy.
So the Bus and Cab rides are manufacted.
Actually easy to do in Dallas as everyone whom actually knew Oswald was distancing themselves from him, but complete loons were saying they rode buses with him, (Mary Hollies), and also lived with him (Mary Bledsoe), gave him a ride, (Yates) etc.


January 1, 2016 at 9:37 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Linda Giovanna Zambanini
Member
Posts: 273

Ed Ledoux at December 31, 2015 at 4:50 PM

Great stuff Linda!
Yeah don't use the link option, its worthless. Just post the url's.
Mildred and Blachley Click. Got it!

Yep its an interesting set of coincindences and turns with the Wade press conference, the air crash, the Meharg and Miller bits, Bo Click, etc, etc.

Blachley was likely a past relatives name (Surname?) they gave to him as a first name,
http://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/BLACHLEY


The picture of Scoggins in the middle of Cecil pics was to show the difference.
The I Due Kennedy movie said cab driver and bus driver, if you have any Italian language skills watch the movie and you will hear the two described as Bus and Cab drivers. I took french but its similar enough to make out autobus = bus.
Since both Whaley and Scogins were cabbies I found it odd they were depicted as the Cab and Bus driver in the film.

Italians correct me please if I am incorrect.

Thank's Ed! Haven't had time to work on it snce...so much going on rt now!

Ah! I see - you had me confused by that triptych! I was looking and looking trying to see if one could be the cleaned up version of the other! LOL!

Yes, i speak and understand pretty fluently and had no problem with the video with no subtitles. I took Italian in college - then returned to Middlebury for their Immersion summer session a couple of decades later. Absolutely fantastic course! Totally rewired my brain! I see why Ruth Paine took Russian there. I was totally creeped out when i learned she had studied there though - glad i didn't know it at the time! Btw... when i was there there were like 200 FBI agents in the immersion Spanish summer program- you could spot them around campus a mile away - same haircuts and sunglasses! Laughing

Ciao!
--

"This nation was founded by men of many nations and backgrounds. It was founded on the principle that all men are created equal, and that the rights of every man are diminished when the rights of one man are threatened.” ~ JFK, Civil Rights Speech, 6/11/63


January 2, 2016 at 2:16 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104

Wow!~ Good to know Linda!!
Didn't Ruth also take the summer course for her Russian?
Is there any records you as an alumni could get, like the instructors name, other students in that course, etc.


"Ruth had been studying Russian since 1957 — at Berlitz, on phonograph records, in summer classes at Penn and at Middlebury — and in February of 1963 Everett Glover, with whom she'd sung madrigals in Dallas, invited her to a get-together at his home. Among his guests, he told her, would be a young American who'd spent time in the U.S.S.R., and his Soviet wife, offering Ruth the chance to converse in Russian." -Thomas Mallon. Excerpted from the book Mrs. Paine's Garage


January 2, 2016 at 1:07 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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There has been a long-standing myth at the college: in halcyon summer days on an idyllic campus, chatter in Portuguese, Chinese, Arabic, Spanish twirl in the open air like dandelion seeds dance across campus. Students fill the campus with passion and curiosity for a language, entering a new world but still remembering an old-aged rumor. In the corner of their eyes, they are on the lookout for tall men in black shades, trailing behind their combat boots, suspicious that they might disappear into revolving bookshelves in Axinn—yes, they are on the staking out the mythical FBI and CIA recruiters.




“It is true that the CIA and FBI have recruited at Middlebury,” Associate Director of Career Services Tim Mosehauer said. “They are interested in students for their language skills, including Arabic, Russian and Chinese — what you would call critical languages.”



http://middleburycampus.com/article/globalizing-world-threatens-to-change-language-school/
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They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

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January 2, 2016 at 3:28 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Military, too


http://www.sevendaysvt.com/vermont/undercover-campus/Content?oid=2129844
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I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


January 2, 2016 at 3:33 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Greg
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Page 1

C05294689- iAP-PR-O\/EO-FOR RELEASE-Ill '![)A:r~: _Q2 -1_1-~009__ .__ THE CIA AND ACADEME(b)( 1 ) (b)(2)(b)(3) Close ties between the Central Intelligence Agency and American colleges and universities haveexisted since the birth of the Agency in 1947. The bonds between national intelligence and theacademic world actually predate the Agency, for William J. Donovan, President Roosevelt'sCoordinator of Information, established a research team of distinguished academicians to assist him in1941. Donovan proposed a novel idea: have the information that he was collecting, mostly from themilitary services and the Department of State, analyzed not only by the intelligence componentswithin the War and Navy Departments but by his team of "scholars, economists, psychologists,technicians, and students of finance." To head his research group, Donovan chose James PhinneyBaxter, president of Williams College and a noted specialist in American diplomatic history.Following the attack on Pearl Harbor, the Research and Analysis Branch of what became the Office ofStrategic Services (OSS) rapidly expanded. After Baxter's departure in 1942, William 1.. Langer, thedistinguishcd historian from Harvard, took over direction of the branch and remained in that post untildisestablishment of OSS in late 1945.While many of the scholars who had participated in the analytic part of OSS returned to theircampuses after the war, some remained with the government. Those who had been in the Research andAnalysis Branch were transferred to the State Department. Then, as the Central Intelligence Groupand, after 1947, the Central Intelligence Agcncy grew in size and responsibility, a number ofacademicians who had served with OSS returned as analysts in the new Office of Research andEvaluation.During the great expansion of CIA following the outbreak of the Korean War in 1950, Ageneyre cruiters appeared in significant numbers on academic campuses across the nation. Also in 1950, theDirector of Central Intelligence, General Walter Bedell Smith, called upon William Langer to return toWashington to organize the new Offiee of National Estimates (ONE). This office had seven boardmembers, including four historians and an economist drawn from the ranks of academe, * a combatcommander, and a lawyer. One of the historians, Shem1an Kent, succeeded Langer as Director ofONE in 1952 when Langer again returned to Harvard. At roughly the same time, the noted economistat the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Max Millikan, was brought to Washington to organizethe economic intelligence effol1 in the newly created Office of Research and Repol1s.

As a large number of the members ofOSS and the early recruits to CIA came from prestigious privateschools in the Northeast and the Far West, with some representation from the large Midwesternuniversities

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:-jF5dwkTb8oJ:www.nationalsecuritylaw.org/files/received/CIA/Unknown-CIA_and_Academe.pdf+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au


--

I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights


In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once

inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their

address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp


http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker


They put Johnny and Bobby in the ground

Then the place was run by shucks and clowns

Motherfuckers are still thick on the ground

Coz there’s a new God – There’s a new God in town.

Steve Schwartz & the Strap-Ons


January 2, 2016 at 3:40 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Lee Farley
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Posts: 921

Ed Ledoux at December 30, 2015 at 9:25 PM

Yes it was Lee,

Miller has a working phone and if you pm me some questions I can try and get some answers, or do you want to call?

For everyone not familiar with Marion or David,
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t585-the-case-of-the-nuisance-phone-calls-redux

On December 2nd, 1963, FBI Special Agent Alfred C. Ellington received a phone call. The caller, who allegedly didn’t give his name, claimed that on the afternoon of November 22nd, 1963, within minutes of the assassination of the President, he “…observed a man come out of the Texas School Book Depository building, jump off the loading dock…run across Houston Street and get into a 1956 green and white Chevrolet station wagon [and] that he further observed the license number on this vehicle and believes the first four digits were PW 17.”

The caller’s name was Marion Meharg and the call would become a long forgotten but incredibly strange by-story to the events of November 22nd, 1963.

Marion B. Meharg was born in Terrell, Texas, on the 7th of April 1912 and was divorced from a woman named Mildred. The 51 year old had two children with her, both boys, as well as two step-daughters and the separation by all accounts was a messy one. Marion Meharg wanted custody of his boys and in November 1963 was calling his ex-mother-in-law to try and establish where his children were. Mildred Meharg had remarried in September, 1963, to a man named David Leon Miller.

Mildred’s mother when interviewed by the FBI painted a very unfavourable picture of Meharg. The mother of Mildred Meharg was called Mrs. B. K. (Bernice) Click. A surname that will strongly resonate with seasoned JFK researchers and is a curiosity that I personally find quite intriguing. Click told authorities that Meharg had threatened her daughter and had threatened to kill himself. The FBI immediately took Mrs. Click at her word and put Meharg down as a suicide risk with no further investigation into these threats needed.


Bernice and Bo share any relations?

Let me read over my posts, Ed. I have lots of questions but I'll see if I can narrow them down to try and get to the key ones.


Only just seen your post because I haven't been looking at the forum over the last few days but give me the rest of the day and I'll PM my thoughts.


Cheers, mate


Lee
January 2, 2016 at 7:52 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Thanks Lee!
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January 3, 2016 at 1:12 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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10 or so pages of docs at MF

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95956&search=ochus_campbell#relPageId=178&tab=page


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January 20, 2016 at 8:01 PM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Yes and I have never been able to find Train Number 24, in relation to this bus.

What was the signifigance of 433 having 24 displayed.

I called DART.

The nice lady explained they still display train numbers on the buses. so you can plan which bus to take to meet a certain train and the shedule and maps show the train directions.

Now if someone can dig out a schedule or map for trains 1963 Dallas we can see which train the 'suitcase' lady was trying to meet.
This was avoided by the Warren Commission.
You would think an Oswald witness and bus rider would be found by the FBI. Especially given the description, train number 24 and time/date etc....should have been a cake walk for FBI to track her down and she what she recalled.
Seems she would have coroborated Bledsoe if found, something the Warren Commission was not intent on having the FBI investigate, or the FBI worried about finding her.
Thus use of Bledsoe without even attempting to locate this woman is a continuing misrepresentation, a lie by omission.


March 9, 2016 at 10:39 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Barto
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Ozzie's ticket from Mary ferrell, right cick and open in new tab, large scan Wink



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April 17, 2016 at 7:41 AM Edit Delete Flag Quote & Reply

Ed Ledoux
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Posts: 1104




The 'crease' and the fold.

Stop the presses John Armstrong was correct about one piece of evidence!

Well actually the archivist he had check the ticket was correct.
I asked and was told the ticket had no visible creasing or folds.
That picture does show an angled fold.
The ticket needs pulled at NARA and scanned, and I need to call back to ask why I was told the ticket was not damaged.

Are the two punch marks odd to anyone...?

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Faroe Islander on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 8:00 am

some C-Span video, showing the ticket at the 4 minutes mark, also some other artefacts
https://www.c-span.org/video/?321541-1/discussion-kennedy-assassination-records

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Wed 24 Aug 2016, 4:14 pm

Thx Faroe Is. 
Her handling had to be very delicate to not crease fold or mutilate the flimsy transfer

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by Greg Martin on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 5:19 am

I'm new here and late to this party, and I really hate to bump an old thread, however after reading this from start to finish, I do have a question ... Was the back of the transfer ticket he was "said" to have had ever seen? That may be something I missed and if so I do apologize.

Also I want to say hats off to all involved, some of the most amazing work has been done on this forum, have been able to do jack crap all week except to read.. A lot has changed since I last looked at the case in the 80's

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

Post by greg parker on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 9:34 am

Greg Martin wrote:I'm new here and late to this party, and I really hate to bump an old thread, however after reading this from start to finish, I do have a question ... Was the back of the transfer ticket he was "said" to have had ever seen? That may be something I missed and if so I do apologize.

Also I want to say hats off to all involved, some of the most amazing work has been done on this forum, have been able to do jack crap all week except to read.. A lot has changed since I last looked at the case in the 80's
Greg, we love the old threads being bumped. One of the problems with forums is that some great work ends up on page 295 and the specifics get lost in the shuffle.

Ed is probably more across this than I am, but from memory, the only person who has claimed to see the ticket that is in the archives was "Harvey and Lee" author, John Armstrong. The weird part is that Armstrong claims the ticket he viewed was all crumpled - as you would expect it to be if the official story was true. I can't say for certain he checked the back of it.  Again from memory, Ed obtained a book of tickets at some stage so he knows what should be there. 

Unfortunately the case hasn't changed as much as we would like. Arguments over the head wounds, the Zapruder film and what famous people and/or CIA agents you can spot in the photographic evidence, still dominate much of the debate on the internet. But I'd like to think we have made incremental moves forward where some of the "accepted" facts such as the 2nd  floor lunch encounter are now being challenged more widely than just on our little piece of turf.  It has only taken about 14 years since myself and others first started raising it! Anyway... welcome aboard. Your question is a good one.

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Re: Dallas Transit Transfer

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