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Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

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Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Vinny on Sun 11 Sep 2016, 1:23 am

From the Webs Forum.


Vinny
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Albert Rossi on Tue 30 Sep 2014, 7:08 pm

Hi all. I was at the AARC. I figured I might as well try it again, so I approached Buell with the

Robin Unger enhancement of the Darnell frame on my laptop desktop, and asked him

 

1. if that was him

2. who the other figure was.

 

He admitted 1. was him.

He said 2. was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady because by that time he had taken off with Shelley for the RR yard.



Note he says it probably wasn't Lovelady.

Why mention Lovelady? Lovelady was a guy who resembled Oswald to some extent.Perhaps what he was hinting something like this.



The guy is not Lovelady,but the guy who resembled Lovelady, a guy named Lee Oswald.

Otherwise why did he suddenly mention Lovelady when shown the PM image?

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Vinny on Sun 11 Sep 2016, 1:25 am


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It's true that little exchange with Rossi is loaded once you attempt to get inside Mr. Frazier's mind like that. It's a very nuanced little set of statements. I think he knows what he's doing and how to phrase things and do agree that there is allusion to Oswald by the reference to Lovelady. Also note he says Shelley and Lovelady were off to the tracks by then. That is immediately after the shooting, not several minutes later and so no Lovelady and Shelley together loitering out by the "island" and talking to Calvery, as Shelley testified at WC (but as Lovelady did not).
June 4, 2016 at 10:48 AM

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Vinny on Mon 10 Oct 2016, 1:09 am

If PM is not Oswald,why doesn't Frazier say so? He has never come out and said that it is not Oswald which is quite suggestive in itself.

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 6:32 pm

Yet he says Ossie leaves via backdoor, a late arriving claim which flies in the face of earlier statements.
We will just have to prove to him exactly whom he was inches away from and or standing behind/ looking at/ hovering near.
Once he is forced to adjust his recollections I'm sure we will get more details.

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 3:45 am

BWF was shown the Darnell Prayer Man frame for the first time in 2013 by Gary Mack. Gary Mack responded:
 
"While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered.  I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.  First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough.  He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality.
 
"Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build.  When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he 'dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.'  And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for 'a short time' after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.
 
"So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD 'Miscellaneous Department' manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man.  According to Shelley’s testimony, 'I didn’t do anything for a minute' following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes."
 
Sean Murphy responded:
 
"This is a real breakthrough, and I for one am very grateful to Gary for taking the trouble to contact Buell Wesley Frazier.
 
"Why is it a breakthrough?
 
"Well, not because of the Shelley idea. For Shelley's own testimony, and that of the person with him Billy Lovelady, rules him out as Prayer Man:
 
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.
Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.
 
"Darnell shows Baker just a couple of seconds away from the building entrance. Prayer Man is still standing up on the steps. So Shelley is ruled out. Period. (Unless, that is, someone wants to accuse him and Lovelady of lying in their WC testimony about their run out on to the 'island'. Who wants to go first?)
 
"The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.)

"Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.
 
"BWF probably knows it's Lee but--for the most understandable reasons in the world--cannot say so.
However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=52

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by greg parker on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 9:35 am

Thanks for that reminder, Stan.

And while on Frazier's description of Shelley, how does it affect the putative ID of Shelley in PD photos? Particularly in light of what Frazier claimed Shelley usually wore...

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 10:47 am

Would Shelley likely keep a tie and jacket in his office or car as a manager, yes.
Managers can be called into meetings at any time and are usually prepared for this eventuality. The suit n tie man is Joe Molina. Shelley working the warehouse would more likely to wear a dress shirt, long or short sleeved. 
Imo.
Buell saying sports shirt is a dodge. Square peg, round hole.
He is being too accommodating to what the image shows rather than his own recollection of that day, what his bosd was wearing "that day" and on "those steps"
Hmm

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Re: Did Frazier Indirectly Identify Prayer Man

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