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JR debate at Ed Forum

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JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by greg parker on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 11:14 am

It is centered on whether Ruby was CIA or Mob, with only Chris Newton taken a more nuanced position.

But in my opinion, he was neither. 

He was "owned" by the people he owed 40+K to -- the US Treasury Dept - or more specifically it's Special Intelligence Unit, and drilling down even further, the SPU's Mike Malone.


LAS VEGAS (March 31, 2015) – Beginning Friday, April 17, the gun owned by IRS Investigator Michael Malone will be on display at The Mob Museum, the National Museum of Organized Crime and Law Enforcement. Malone went undercover and infiltrated Al Capone’s gang for nearly three years in the ’30s. He was instrumental in the case that led to the notorious gangster’s arrest and eventual prosecution. In addition to Malone’s Smith & Wesson .38 Special, the exhibit will also feature T-Men artifacts including letters, photographs, documents and iconic items showcasing the work of these tireless agents of the Treasury Department. “Follow the Money” will be a permanent addition to The Mob Museum’s exhibits and located on the east side of the Museum’s third floor hallway.
The new exhibit’s debut will follow the Museum’s Thursday, April 16, installment of the Courtroom Conversations series, “Follow the Money: The Unsung Intelligence Unit That Put Away Some of the Most Notorious Mobsters.” Sponsored by Ernst & Young, the event will begin at 8 p.m. Tickets for “Follow the Money” are available online here. The cost is $25; Museum Members receive a 10 percent discount.
Known as T-Men, U.S. Treasury Department agents working for the Special Intelligence Unit, under the leadership of Director Elmer Irey, quietly built tax evasion charges against mobsters such as Capone, Nucky Johnson, Waxey Gordon and Dutch Schultz, as well as public official Huey Long and businessman Moses Annenberg. While the G-Men captured the public’s and pop culture’s imagination during the early and middle of the 20th century, the T-Men were responsible for putting some of the biggest mobsters and corrupt politicians behind bars.
http://themobmuseum.org/press_releases/the-gun-that-brought-down-capone-smith-wesson-38-special-owned-by-irs-agent-who-took-down-al-capone-to-be-on-display-at-the-mob-museum-beginning-april-17/

Ruby had been a runner for Capone, and when Ruby went to California, so did Malone - known as "Mysterious Mike Malone" to Secret Service agents who operated out of the same offices. 

Ruby, according to several sources, was upset and worried about his debt. That changed as the assassination weekend drew closer and he started talking about buying into a new club and moving to a more expensive apartment.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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greg parker
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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 1:53 pm

Interesting, Greg. However, there is one thing that is confusing me. You say that you don't think Ruby was mob, but then mention that he was a "runner" for Capone. I'll do some digging into Malone, and if I find anything interesting, I will post it here.

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by greg parker on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 3:48 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:Interesting, Greg. However, there is one thing that is confusing me. You say that you don't think Ruby was mob, but then mention that he was a "runner" for Capone. I'll do some digging into Malone, and if I find anything interesting, I will post it here.
Hasan,

Not to put too fine  point to it, but he was a Jewish kid earning a dollar a "run". It's a bit like delivering for Dominos doesn't make you Italian. He moved to California when Capone got busted by Malone for tax evasion, and Malone soon moved in the same westerly direction.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 4:37 pm

greg parker wrote:Hasan,

Not to put too fine  point to it, but he was a Jewish kid earning a dollar a "run". It's a bit like delivering for Dominos doesn't make you Italian. He moved to California when Capone got busted by Malone for tax evasion, and Malone soon moved in the same westerly direction.

Okay, thanks. I was under the impression it was a prerequisite to be a member of the mob in order to work for Capone.

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by greg parker on Sun 02 Oct 2016, 5:19 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:
greg parker wrote:Hasan,

Not to put too fine  point to it, but he was a Jewish kid earning a dollar a "run". It's a bit like delivering for Dominos doesn't make you Italian. He moved to California when Capone got busted by Malone for tax evasion, and Malone soon moved in the same westerly direction.

Okay, thanks. I was under the impression it was a prerequisite to be a member of the mob in order to work for Capone.
If that were a hard and fast rule, no one could possibly dispute that Ruby was "mob".  

FWIW, here is what wiki states:

"Traditionally, in the Italian-American Mafia, in order to become a true made man, the inductee had to be a male of full Italian descent."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_man

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Terry W. Martin on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 11:34 am

So, Ruby owed a bundle to the Treasury Department and he threw a party for members of the Department (aka the Secret Service) during the wee hours of 22 November 1963.

And then the Secret Service were drunk and hungover and blew their protection the next day...

Hmm, is there supposed to be a connection?

Nah, nothing to see here.

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 1:08 pm

greg parker wrote:
Hasan Yusuf wrote:
greg parker wrote:Hasan,

Not to put too fine  point to it, but he was a Jewish kid earning a dollar a "run". It's a bit like delivering for Dominos doesn't make you Italian. He moved to California when Capone got busted by Malone for tax evasion, and Malone soon moved in the same westerly direction.

Okay, thanks. I was under the impression it was a prerequisite to be a member of the mob in order to work for Capone.
If that were a hard and fast rule, no one could possibly dispute that Ruby was "mob".  

FWIW, here is what wiki states:

[size=43]"Traditionally, in the Italian-American Mafia, in order to become a true made man, the inductee had to be a male of full Italian descent."[/size]
[size=43]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_man[/size]
Just watch Goodfellas. Now go home and get your fukinn shinebox!

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Terry W. Martin on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 1:50 pm

Well said, Paul!

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by greg parker on Mon 03 Oct 2016, 3:07 pm

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57029&search=cooner#relPageId=172&tab=page

Cooner was not just an admin officer - he was with the intelligent unit.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62277&relPageId=80&search=cooner

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95615&relPageId=101&search=cooner

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 08 Oct 2016, 11:41 pm

Not sure how relevant this is, but have a read:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=59642&search=John_O%27Brien+Jack+Ruby#relPageId=105&tab=page

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Re: JR debate at Ed Forum

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