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Oswald and Forrest Gump

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Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by greg parker on Wed 12 Oct 2016, 9:02 am

During the 1950s, the PO and Customs became self-appointed censors, routinely confiscating foreign mail deemed to be Communist propaganda. There was no express statutory authority for this, and any legal/constitutional basis for it was never tested in the courts. Kennedy ordered the practice terminated in March 1961 -- a move countered by Congress which passed a law in 1962 (but not in effect until Jan 7, 1963) that required all overseas material (other than sealed letters) deemed to be Communist Propaganda would be held for 20 days during which time the addressee would be notified of such mail and that it would be delivered only after the addressees express consent was given. This consent only had to be given once; thereafter all such material would be forwarded. This statute lasted until 1965, brought down as unconstitutional by a Corliss Lamont court challenge.
http://www.jstor.org/stable/1339075?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
--------------------------------------
From John Newman's "Oswald & The CIA:

Page 268:

"Chester Riggs [LHO's Mercedes landlord] knew that something about Oswald's mail was out of the ordinary. Riggs told the Secret Service after the assassination that the US Postal Investigation Service had investigated Oswald for receiving subversive mail while he was living at 2703 Mercedes." 

Footnote: http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/html/WH_Vol22_0093b.htm

Page 273:

"The above was not all of Oswald's mail activity. But it led to actions by the post office which Oswald protested. He had to execute a post office Form 2153-X, instructing them to "always" deliver foreign propaganda mailings. He added this comment to the form: "I protest this intimidation." "


Footnote: "New York Customs received PO Form 2153-X from NYC PO which is executed by Oswald, Box 2915; CD 60 pp 2-3; FBI reports Oswald's writing, "I protest this intimidation"; see CD 205, p.157"
------------------------------------

Here is a timeline putting in some perspective:

March 1961: JFK orders PO and Customs to cease withholding foreign mail deemed to be Communist propaganda.

August, 1962: New legislation put up requiring filling of form to receive Communist literature from another country.

August 10, 1962: Lee and Marina move to 2703 Mercades St, Fort Worth.

October, 1962: Marina moves in with Elana Hall. Lee moves to YMCA in Dallas.

October 9, 1962: Lee rents PO box.

October 10, 1962: Lee fills out change of mail address form giving new PO box as address.

October 12, 1962: Lee starts work at JCS.

November 4, 1962: Oswalds move to Elspeth St, Dallas

January 7, 1963: New law from August finally takes effect. It requires PO to hold foreign Communist propaganda for 20 days while addressee completes and returns form confirming they want the material forwarded to them.

January ? 1963: Oswald subscribes to 3 Russian publications. (CE 1117)

January, 1963: Publications posted triggering PO action per new law.

January, 1963: PO inspector visits last known address for Oswald in relation to Russian newspapers. Last known address by PO would be Mercades.

January, 1963: PO Form 2153-X is left in Lee's PO box for him to complete and return advising whether or not he wishes to receive the Russian publications. Oswald completes and returns form, adding "I protest this intimidation".


April, 1963: Corliss Lamont launches legal action challenging the new law.


1965: The law is found by the Supreme Court to be unconstitutional and is repealed.

---------------------------------------------
As can be seen, Oswald is requesting Communist propaganda through the mail - not before - not after - but at the same time that a new law is being introduced which is guaranteed to get him on a subversive list by requesting such material.

Coincidence?

The same type of "coincidence" has him ordering particular weapons through the mail from particular companies at the same time as the Dodd subcommittee is investigating mail order weapons -- including those particular weapons and those particular companies chosen by LHO.

Skip forward  to May, 1963 and we find yet another instance of impeccable timing with Oswald mail. On May 16 and May 20, 1963, the FBI received intelligence from two informants indicating that the FPCC had successfully cleaned up its house and was no longer under CP or SWP influence. On May 26, Oswald writes to the FPCC requesting a charter, and follows up with a series of letters which seem to link the FPCC back to the CP and SWP.

Go back to 1959 and we find Richard Bissell issued a memorandum on September 2 ordering an increase in REDSOX, REDCAP and REDSKIN operations "against Soviet targets". On September 4, 1959 Oswald was transferred to H & H Squadron and applied for his passport which he would use to get to the Soviet Union. A Redskin agent (Ned Keenan) was in Snyder's office the day Oswald attempted to "defect".
Go back further to 1953 and Oswald has become a truant and a non-saluter of the flag for the duration of his older brother's tenure in the Coast Guard's anti-subversive intelligence unit. It is also behavior with a backdrop of multiple teacher purges, government truancy hearings and investigations and research into US fighting forces and why so many "defected" during the Korean War - with some of that research aimed at 13 to 17 year old males - the next generation of fighting men.  

Oswald out-gumped Forrest in the coincidence stakes.


Last edited by greg parker on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 8:14 pm; edited 2 times in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by barto on Thu 13 Oct 2016, 12:46 am

Should have fun faster..................

Great read Greg, thank you.

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 05 Nov 2016, 1:49 am

Giving this excellent thread a bump because it deserves it.

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 26 Nov 2016, 5:30 pm

Bump

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 3:50 am

"In a world that operates largely at random, coincidences are to be expected, but any one of them must always be mistrusted." – Nero Wolfe

I mistrust.

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 2:48 pm

I found an article/book and the ACLU was going to test this case by doing a mass mailing of such literature to its members.

Ill see if I can locate it and what exact date it was for.

Here is some background:

Congress and the U.S. Post Office

Several court actions by the Union and its affiliates pressed the legal
attack against Public Law 87-793, under which the Post Office is re-
quired to withhold delivery of Communist political propaganda that
originates in foreign countries. Specifically challenged was Section 4008
of Title 39 of the law, which requires the addressee to indicate on a
postcard whether he wants the mail delivered. If he answers affirmatively,
the mail is forwarded; if he replies negatively, or fails to reply within
60 days, the mail is destroyed. Exempt from the screening process, con-
ducted by the Bureau of Customs at eleven so-called "Foreign Propaganda
Units/* is mail addressed to government agencies, libraries and other
educational institutions, and material sent to the U.S. under reciprocal
agreements with foreign governments.

The ACLU of Southern California initiated the first test of the 1962
law in a Los Angeles federal District Court on behalf of Charles Amlin,
a Pasadena truckdriver who argued that it interfered with his freedoms
of speech and press under the First Amendment, and violated the due
process protections of the Fifth Amendment by being "vague and in-
definite." Amlin wanted to receive a pro-Communist newspaper pub-
lished in Tokyo without providing written authorization to the Post
Office. Rather than legally test the issue, the government treated his
complaint as a request for the mail and forwarded it, thus mooting the
case. In another test of the law, the ACLU of Northern California filed
suit on behalf of Lief Heilberg, who ordered publications from Com-
munist China. A three-judge federal court heard argument in the case
and ruled that the government practice was unconstitutional.

The restrictions of Section 4008 also apply to Communist propaganda
forwarded by a bookstore in the United States to a U.S. citizen through
domestic mails, a further violation of constitutional rights of free speech
and press. The Illinois Division of the ACLU filed a suit involving this
aspect of the law on behalf of Arthur B. Abelson, an ACLU member
living in New Orleans who ordered material from a Chicago bookstore
but was denied receipt unless he forwarded the postcard; the case, brought
in the federal District Court for the Northern District of Illinois, is
pending. The national ACLU and the NYCLU filed an appeal to the U.S.
Supreme Court on a suit lost in a New York City federal District Court
on behalf of David McReynolds and Fritz Pappenheim, the latter a
Cambridge, Mass. sociologist, who were required to specifically request



14



mail deemed "Communist political propaganda" or else have the mail
destroyed. Pappenheim bought from a New York City bookstore such
titles as Dialectics of Nature by Friedrich Engels, Past and Present, by a
group of Oxford University scholars, and Letters from China by Anna
Louise Strong. A few days later he received a postcard from the Post-
master in New York instructing him to state whether he wanted to re-
ceive the "Communist political propaganda," Though Pappenheim
requested more information and an extension of the 60-day deadline he
got no answer. But some two months later the books were delivered to
his home.

The ACLTJ suit said that Section 4008 violates the First Amendment
"by interfering with the plaintiffs* right to receive expressions of opinion
on political issues and expressions on other subjects, with their right to
consider such expressions freely without Government interference, and
with their right to freely communicate such expressions." In asking that
the court declare the statute unconstitutional, the Union charged that
both men were coerced by the law to forego receipt of the mail or have
themselves listed with the Government against their will and subject
to possible harassment by federal agencies or legislative investigating
committees. In addition, said the Union, the law is unconstitutional
because the determination of what constitutes Communist political
propaganda is "vague, arbitrary and capricious" since it depends on the
judgement of individual Customs Bureau employes.

Another apparent government censorship operation, this time by the
Foreign Assets Control Divisions of the Treasury Department, was
protested by the ACLU to Secretary of the Treasury Douglas Dillon. In
a letter to Dillon the Union said it was "aghast" that FAC regulations,
which prohibit the unlicensed purchase abroad or the importation of
goods and merchandise from Communist China, were used to bar
delivery of pamphlets and magazines by Anna Louise Strong to persons
in the United States. Later, when the material was returned to Peking
and Miss Strong sent it first class ( outside the category of "merchandise
or goods") it was received without interference. The Union's letter
condemned the censorship activities and called Dillon's attention to
Public Law 87 — 793 which permits the Post Office to release foreign
political propaganda if the recipient requests it. In this case however,
the ACLU noted the individuals were never notified of the Strong
pamphlets. Following the protest, the Treasury Department conceded
that the incident "can only be explained as an oversight."

The ACLU and its affiliate, the New York Civil Liberties Union, con-
demned as a "shocking invasion of privacy" the disclosure that the
federal government maintains daily mail checks on some 750 persons.
The check, which consists of recording all the information on the
envelopes of letters, came to light when the attorney for Roy Cohn,
on trial for perjury and the obstruction of justice before a grand jury,
charged that his and Cohn's mail was being watched. (Cohn was acquitted



15



of the charges) . The ACLU called on the U-S. Attorney General to make
a public pledge that the mail checks would be discontinued to calm
public concern that "a censorship practice associated with totalitarian
governments" was being practiced in the United States. The Attorney
General did not reply and the Union plans to press the issue further*


and this mentions the ACLU testing the mailing censorship operation:

U.S. POST OFFICE CENSORSHIP. The ACLU congratulated
President Kennedy -on ending 21 years of censorship of foreign
political material by the Post Office and Customs Bureau, a practice
long fought by the Union in the courts, in the governmental agencies
and in Congress. This belated recognition of the freedom guaranteed
by the First Amendment, said the Union in a letter to the President,
"demonstrates faith not only in our constitutional guarantees but in
the people themselves to shape their own political judgments without
the aid of government censors," In the announcement ending the pro-
gram, under which annually 15 million pieces of mail from Communist
countries were confiscated, President Kennedy said it served no useful
intelligence purpose. He said that the State, Justice, Treasury and Post
Office Departments had unanimously urged elimination of the practice,
along with the planning board of the National Security Council under
the Eisenhower administration. On the morning that the ban was lifted
Justice Department lawyers were scheduled to reply to a court challenge
of the program brought by the Illinois Division of the ACLU on behalf
of a Chicago bookstore and a Chicago sociologist (See last year's Annual
Report, pp. 8-9). The ACLU of Southern California also had a suit
pending testing the constitutionality of intercepting foreign mail.

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by greg parker on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 4:44 pm

Thanks Ed!

For me, this is the key phrase when considering Oswald:

the Union charged that  both men were coerced by the law to forego receipt of the mail or have themselves listed with the Government against their will and subject to possible harassment by federal agencies or legislative investigating committees.

The timing of his subscriptions, right when the law kicked in, is evidence that the purpose was to get his name on various government lists. Whether or not he knew that was the underlying purpose is one question (which assumes he made the subscriptions under instruction). Whether he was the person who actually made the subscriptions is another question.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 9:51 pm

No worries Greg, surely they would put the screws to you if you were registered, on thee list.
Oswald subscription Aug 4th '62 with $2 included to New York to THE WORKER would still put you on A list.

Did Oswald receive any mail from home, forwarded communist literature, communist or socialist magazines and or newspapers while in the Marines?

I find the theme Oswald was reading communist literature in the Marines throughout the case:

"Oswald apparently started reading about communism when he was about 15. In the Marines, he evidenced a strong conviction as to the correctness of Marxist doctrine, which one associate described as "irrevocable," but also as "theoretical"; that associate did not think that Oswald was a Communist."

"However, Oswald is known to have been an avid reader and there is evidence that he had read Communist literature without guidance while in the Marine Corps and before that time."

Interest in Marxism

As indicated above, Oswald started to read Communist literature after he and his mother left New York and moved to New Orleans.151 He told Aline Mosby, a reporter who interviewed him after he arrived in Moscow:

I'm a Marxist, ... I became interested about the age of 15. From an ideological viewpoint. An old lady handed me a pamphlet about saving the Rosenbergs. ... I looked at that paper and I still remember it for some reason, I don't know why.152
Oswald studied Marxism after he joined the Marines and his sympathies in that direction and for the Soviet Union appear to have been widely known, at least in the unit to which he was assigned after his return from the Far East. His interest in Russia led some of his associates to call him "comrade" 153 or "Oswaldskovitch." 154 He always wanted to play the red pieces in chess because, as he said in an apparently humorous context, he preferred the "Red Army." 155 He studied the Russian language,156 read a Russian language newspaper 157 and seemed interested in what was going on in the Soviet Union.158


REALLY?

Whom documented any communist literature during his service? Reading a book, Das Kapital or some such is hardly communistic in of itself and would be considered intellectual reading to anyone else.
Botelho said it was a "russian paper printed in San Fransisco.." hardly a communist rag.
and Osbourne said Lee bought some russian newspapers in Los Angeles (Santa Ana)

I found Russian Life was printed in cyrillic in San Fran during that time frame.


NewspaperRusskai︠a︡ zhiznʹ (San Francisco, Calif. : 1941)
Russian life | Russian life daily Catalog Record Only Weekly (except none published in July), Began in 1941. Suspended with July 5, 1980 issue; resumed with July 29, 1980 issue. Numbering is irregular. Also available on microfilm from University of California, Library Photographic Service. In Russian with some English. Issued by: Russian American Anticommunist Organization, Description based on: Vol. 21, no. 50 (Dec. 24, 1941). Latest issue consulted: Vol. 86, no 13985 (Oct. ...



Henry J. Roussel said Lee had a subscription to The Worker while he was stationed at Santa Ana:

"While at Santa Ana, Oswald had a subscription to a newspaper printed in
English which I believe was titled either “The Worker” or “The Socialist
Worker.” Members of the unit saw copies of this paper as they passed through
the mailroom; when the paper was identified as being directed to Oswald, few
were surprised. I do not recall Oswald’s receiving other literature of a Socialist
nature.
"

This would be OUT OF THE ORDINARY LITERATURE FOR ANY MAIL TO A SERVICEMAN!!!!!
After his service and trip to Russia he would have subscription to the Worker in '62.

Only other cite for some literature or membership details was the Young People's Socialist League he wrote to via SPA before enlisting.
I know he could not directly affiliate with the off limits groups to enlist, and skirted this with the YPSL, but what other literature could a US serviceman expect to clear censors...? The myth is he read communist propaganda in the marines. More like tried to read one through use of a handy translator dictionary.

Ferrell points to this SS Rotterdam rider was mail intercepted in 1960.
Part of the long and continued New York program.
FBI MAIL INTERCEPT OF LETTER TO SHVARTSMAN, RAKHIL I
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=109401#relPageId=2&tab=page

I found this very interesting in '59 the authors had a good grasp on the programs,



The CIA yada yada about the limited portion carried out only in select areas as some form of assurance to the common citizen they were necessary intrusions... turns out to be more common than this.



Here our "Friend" Ruth Hyde Paine and CIA Guatemalan operations are just under the surface





The CIA cover story covering HT LINGUAL?





Hmm trouble getting their story straight between FBI, office of security,CIA, etc... the other programs besides these could open or monitor a persons mail anytime, so I can see why the post masters are not going along with it. They had agents at the mail opening surveillance sites acting as Postal Inspectors, without The Post Master Generals Knowledge doing what with the mail??? Just copy the envelopes info was done but so was opening and copies of contents made, Special Postal Inspectors... I think even a lowly postal worker or letter carrier knew the difference between an postal inspector and one of these mail spooks.  So the plea by Day is rather hollow especially given the literature I have shown was available on the subject in early sixties.

http://heinonline.org/HOL/LandingPage?handle=hein.journals/uclalr11&div=37&id=&page=

Cheers, Ed

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by greg parker on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 10:20 pm

Phew! That's a load to take in.

I'm going to allow it float around in my head for a while before commenting further.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by greg parker on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 2:45 pm

I find the theme Oswald was reading communist literature in the Marines throughout the case:
Ed Ledoux wrote:
"Oswald apparently started reading about communism when he was about 15. In the Marines, he evidenced a strong conviction as to the correctness of Marxist doctrine, which one associate described as "irrevocable," but also as "theoretical"; that associate did not think that Oswald was a Communist."

"However, Oswald is known to have been an avid reader and there is evidence that he had read Communist literature without guidance while in the Marine Corps and before that time."

Interest in Marxism 

As indicated above, Oswald started to read Communist literature after he and his mother left New York and moved to New Orleans.151 He told Aline Mosby, a reporter who interviewed him after he arrived in Moscow:


I'm a Marxist, ... I became interested about the age of 15. From an ideological viewpoint. An old lady handed me a pamphlet about saving the Rosenbergs. ... I looked at that paper and I still remember it for some reason, I don't know why.152
Oswald studied Marxism after he joined the Marines and his sympathies in that direction and for the Soviet Union appear to have been widely known, at least in the unit to which he was assigned after his return from the Far East. His interest in Russia led some of his associates to call him "comrade" 153 or "Oswaldskovitch." 154 He always wanted to play the red pieces in chess because, as he said in an apparently humorous context, he preferred the "Red Army." 155 He studied the Russian language,156 read a Russian language newspaper 157 and seemed interested in what was going on in the Soviet Union.158 


REALLY?
What I've underlined never happened. 

Miss prissy can't even remember it was Mosby and not her this was supposedly said to.


Miss Prissy 2013 interview with Frontline wrote:[question]Was he talking about being a Marxist? I mean, how perfect was his ideology, and what role did that play?[/question]
He said that as a boy, a teenager in New York City, he had been handed some literature about Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, and that that had made him political when he was about 15 years old. Then he had started to read Marx. He said he’d read all of Das Kapital, and he used a good deal of Marxist language.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/article/interview-priscilla-johnson-mcmillan/

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 8:11 pm

Thanks for that. Underlined underscores how bad the evidence was this can be broadcast via PBS.
Greg how bloody likely was it Oswald had any subscriptions to Russian newspapers while in the service?
Seems a stretch beyond logic, and is what the Warren Commission states and has the above statements by Osbourne and others to incriminate him, some pretty bad, but sticking to the newspaper:

I know from rumor that Oswald received a newspaper printed in Russian. I was informed by my fellow Marines that one of his superiors either the First Sergeant or a Lieutenant--asked Oswald why he read this paper.-Donald Peter Camarata

Total hearsay bullshit yet a sworn statement...


These are statements to prepared questions asked of each Marine, much like the TSBD employees were all asked a list of questions.

Like this response gives away most of the list:
"
I have no recollection of Oswald's studying foreign languages; of where he went when he had time off; of his reading habits or religious beliefs; or of any nicknames for him. Nor do I remember his having any dates."
-
Allen D. Graf

Or,


"I know from personal observation that he read the "Daily Worker." I heard--although of this I am not completely certain--that he had a subscription to that publication." -Erwin Donald Lewis

A subscription to New York for a
foreign socialist/communist CPUSA paper while active duty Marine.
I guess anything is possible... but LEE would be on a list for this as the mail surveillance covered domestic mailings especially New York dissemination of just such literature!

Cheers, Ed

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:10 pm

Miss Prissy is par for the media course, lots of holes, vary small balls.
(golf joke) 
Seriously though it seems interesting the Daily Worker showing up in USMC Air Station El Toro Santa Ana mail room uncontested.

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by greg parker on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 9:29 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:Thanks for that. Underlined underscores how bad the evidence was this can be broadcast via PBS.
Greg how bloody likely was it Oswald had any subscriptions to Russian newspapers while in the service?
Seems a stretch beyond logic, and is what the Warren Commission states and has the above statements by Osbourne and others to incriminate him, some pretty bad, but sticking to the newspaper:

I know from rumor that Oswald received a newspaper printed in Russian. I was informed by my fellow Marines that one of his superiors either the First Sergeant or a Lieutenant--asked Oswald why he read this paper.-Donald Peter Camarata

Total hearsay bullshit yet a sworn statement...


These are statements to prepared questions asked of each Marine, much like the TSBD employees were all asked a list of questions.

Like this response gives away most of the list:
"
I have no recollection of Oswald's studying foreign languages; of where he went when he had time off; of his reading habits or religious beliefs; or of any nicknames for him. Nor do I remember his having any dates."
-
Allen D. Graf

Or,


"I know from personal observation that he read the "Daily Worker." I heard--although of this I am not completely certain--that he had a subscription to that publication." -Erwin Donald Lewis

A subscription to New York for a
foreign socialist/communist CPUSA paper while active duty Marine.
I guess anything is possible... but LEE would be on a list for this as the mail surveillance covered domestic mailings especially New York dissemination of just such literature!

Cheers, Ed
Agreed, Ed. It's total bollox. I was told years ago by an ex-servicemen in the US that they had their own PO service. This would be even more stringent and vigilant than the USPO ever was.

You have to conclude if he was reading anything like that at Santa Ana, he was doing so by arrangement with the USMC. Indeed, let's see what Nelson Delgado said about the commie paper...

Mr. DElLGADO.... But every so often, after he started to get in contact with these Cuban people, he started getting little pamphlets and newspapers, and he always got a Russian paper, and I asked him if it was, you know, a Commie paper--they let you get away with this in the Marine Corps in a site like this--and he said, "No, it's not Communist; it's a White Russian. To me that was Greek, you know, White Russian, so I guess he is not a Communist; but he was steady getting that periodical. It was a newspaper. 
Mr. LIEBELER - In the Russian language? 
Mr. DELGADO - Right. 



So Oswald told Nelson it was a White Russian paper, as opposed to a commie paper and Nelson is clueless about the difference.  He keeps assuming it is some sort of commie paper and makes the very telling comment that they let you get away with this in the Marine Corps in a site like this


So what sort of site was Santa Ana? 

We may have got more from Delgado in an honest investigation. Instead we got this short-changed exchange:

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think that he was perhaps at the same university that you spoke of before, that he had applied for when he was in the Marines? 
Mr. DELGADO - No; because I--the way I understand it, it's--there's two big psychologists institutes in Europe. One is in Switzerland. If he was a devout Communist or pro-Russian, as they say he was---one was in East Berlin, and one was in Switzerland--he couldn't have gone to Switzerland. I knew he applied for Switzerland. 
Mr. LIEBELER - So you figured that because he had this interest in psychology, and .since he was interested in communism, he probably wouldn't have gone to the university in Switzerland, but he might very well have gone to the one in Berlin? 
Mr. DELGADO - Well, actually it was on their own level. They would train him their way.

(Short recess.)


RECESS!!! INSTEAD OF ASKING WHO "THEY" ARE THAT WOULD TRAIN HIM!! AND WHAT THE "IT" IS AND WHOSE LEVEL "IT" WAS ON.

DO YOU THINK MAYBE LIEBELER DISCUSSED THIS DURING THE "RECESS" WITH DELGADO?

Here s the resumption:

Mr. LIEBELER - Did you think that Oswald was an agent of the Soviet Union or was acting as an agent for the Soviet Union at that time? 
Mr. DELGADO - No. 
Mr. LIEBELER - Whom did you mean to refer to when you said that they would train him their way? 
Mr. DELGADO - Well, after he was defecting, I assumed he would take the Communist way of life, and I would imagine that they would put him to use to the best of their advantage. But this was later brought out to be false, because they came out and said that all he did was work in a factory. Whether or not that's so, I can't say. That's what they said. 
Mr. LIEBELER - But at the time you were in Europe, you were speculating to yourself that he might have been in the Berlin school? 

Mr. DELGADO - Yes. 


so apparently Delgado was talking about the Soviets training Oz to become a psychologist. BULLSHIT!!!!

Here is how John Donovan described Santa Ana: Our function at that base was to surveil for aircraft, but basically to train both enlisted and officers for later assignment overseas.

I agree that Russian life is a possibility for the "commie" paper he was reading at Santa Ana. But according to Wiki, it was a Soviet propganda publication APPROVED by the US government for distribution in the US in exchange for a similar styled pro US publication being circulated in the USSR - all part of Ike's attempts at a thaw. 


soviet life wrote:In October 1956, a new English language magazine, The USSR, appeared on newsstands in major US cities. Given the level of anti-communist sentiment at the time, it would hardly have seemed an auspicious name under which to launch such a magazine title. The publication was edited by Enver Mamedov (born 1923), a polyglot native of Baku, who had the distinction of being one of the youngest Soviet diplomats when he was appointed the press secretary of the Soviet Embassy in Italy in 1943, and who had been the handler of the Soviet prosecutors' star witness, Friedrich Paulus, at the Nuremberg trials.[1][2][3]
Meanwhile, at newsstands in Moscow, Leningrad, Kiev and other Soviet cities, Amerikamagazine made its second debut. Amerika had been inaugurated in 1944, but in late 1940s the State Department began to feel that radio and the Voice of America would be more effective propaganda tools and, in 1952, publication of Amerika was suspended.[4] However, in 1956, the American and Soviet governments agreed to exchange magazines and Amerika was reborn and published in return for distribution of The USSR in the United States.
The simultaneous appearance of these magazines was the result of an intergovernmental agreement, one among several cross-cultural agreements designed to sow trust amidst the rancor of international politics. Still, there was never any question in anyone's mind that each magazine was intended as a propaganda tool for the government issuing it.
A few years later, The USSR changed its name to Soviet Life. While never a blatant Soviet propaganda tool, Soviet Life did hew to the government line. Yet it sought to present an informed view of Russian culture, history, scientific achievements and the various peoples inhabiting the Soviet Union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Life

Seems like the perfect publication to bone up on how to get by in the Soviet Union for someone being trained for such an "overseas assignment".

--------------------------
On a side issue - I don't believe Oswald was interviewed by Mosby or Miss Prissy. I think Oz had a stand-in for those interviews - described as a good-looking 6 footer in Miss Prissy's original notes.... and the Mosby quote (which Miss Prissy tried to nab as her own for Frontline) was absolute and total BS to add to a commie legend.... 

_________________
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I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
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Out to where the van is waiting
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-----------------------------
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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 11:15 pm

I appreciate the response Greg,

The Delgado testimony has my mind wandering about him receiving a subscription in the Marines... amazing this is not further addressed (pun intended).

Seriously you have some good points here, like the use of Life to study, and that is exactly the way it sounded by Osbourne, etc. with Lee using the english - russian dictionary to study it.

I looked for the old Macs9 address and did find the new update to address in '99 and it had the El Toro Postal Facility which would be same as it was in sixties perhaps a new building or just updated nomenclature given a new zip code or some such biz.

Lee gave the address as



But didn't return address his card to Marguerite,


All very interesting!
Cheers, Ed

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Re: Oswald and Forrest Gump

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