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No rent receipts anywhere?

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No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Steve Thomas on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 8:43 am

I am posting this in reply to a thread started in this Forum by Lee Farley on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 7:07 pm entitled, House of Cards?
You can find it here: http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t396-a-house-of-cards

Lee wrote:
"When Mrs. Gladys Johnson, who owned the 1026 North Beckley rooming house was deposed by the Warren Commission she quite conveniently forgot to bring her tenant register with her.  Why this was never taken as evidence on the afternoon of the assassination is a question that will forever remain unanswered but Johnson did, thankfully, bring with her a slip of scrap paper that had the name "O. H. Lee" written on it with a short chronology of when this Mr. Lee paid his weekly rent of $8.  This was the only hard proof ever handed over from the owners to assist the authorities in proving that Lee Oswald ever lived at the property."


I have been looking, and to the best of my knowledge, aside from the YMCA logs for November, 1962 and October, 1963, I can't find tenant registers or rent receipts for ANY place Lee Oswald ever lived.



http://neelyst.blogspot.co.uk/
Neely St. Mysteries:

"Unfortunately, M. Waldo George (the owner of 214 Neely St.) was never interviewed by the Warren Commission (WC). Unlike the couple who rented to the Oswalds at Apartment 2, 604 Elsbeth St., Dallas, Mr and Mrs Mahlon F. Tobias, both of whom were interviewed at some length, Mr George got off lightly with a one-page statement. Nor did Mr George furnish the WC with receipts to prove that he had rented to Oswald, receipts which probably ought to have been included among the WC exhibits. Nor did the WC interview Mrs M. Waldo George, the person Oswald spoke to initially about the room (although we don’t know whether she spoke to him personally or just took a phone call from him). The Commission did not even interview Mr and Mrs George B. Gray, the couple who, according to Mr George, lived in the downstairs apartment from the Oswalds (212 West Neely St), although they had shared the building with the Oswalds for seven weeks."


WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, the owner of 621 Marsalis:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm


Mr. BALL - Then did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - What did he say?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - His name was Oswald, and he put it on this thing, and my son took it and sold it.
Mr. BALL - You said he put it on this thing?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - This right here.
Mr. BALL - What is, "this thing"?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Calendar.
Mr. BALL - Well---
Mr. BALL - Now, you have a calendar here?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is my calendar.
Mr. BALL - That is the calendar for December 1963, and I notice it has dates and names and dates. Is that the way you keep books on your rooms?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; but I don't now. I did then, because I just had started. The first one I got was in September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - He put his name on the calendar?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, got it in September. He got it, my son sold it for $5, and I didn't even know that he tore that out.
Mr. BALL - Now, let me see here in this calendar. It runs from January 1963, to December of 1963, but October of 1963, has been torn out?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.



WC testimony of Mrs. Mahlon Tobias, Manager of 602 and 604 Elsbeth
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias.htm


Mr. JENNER. Now, in your record here that you keep, this is kept in the usual, regular and ordinary course of business?
Mrs. TOBIAS. You mean my husband keeps this--we keep these books.
Mr. JENNER. You keep these books regularly?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And they are your permanent records?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's right--we have them from the time we moved in.
Mr. JENNER. And these entries are all true and correct?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And they are entries of receipts of rental payments for your tenants, including Mr. Oswald?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's correct.



Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--may I ask you a few questions about that--you keep a record of all receipts?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; we have one--they get one and the owner gets one.
Mr. JENNER. When a rent payment is made, you make an entry in the book you have before you of having received a certain amount of money. It's in duplicate or triplicate--the tenant gets a copy of the receipt, you retain one in your book and you send one of the owners of the building?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, she gets the name of it and I think this is the other one--my husband has it marked here, so that every time they would come out they would have a lot of trouble looking and let me see, now--yes, he paid--he lacked $8--the balance.



Mr. JENNER You have a receipt No. 0154 in your book of original receipts here, dated December 6, 1962, reciting, "Received from L. H. Oswald--$68 for rental of apartment No. 2, from December 3, 1962, to January 3, 1963. Paid in cash. Signed by Mrs. M. F. Tobias, Sr."


Mr. JENNER. Well, there is a receipt here No. 0178, dated January 4, 1963, "issued to L. H. Oswald for $68 for the rent of Apartment No. 2 from January 3, 1963, to and including February 3, 1963," and it is signed M. F. Tobias, Sr.


Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay. Now, I couldn't swear that that was who the guy was. Now, do you want me to leave the books with you?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; leave the books and we will give them to your husband. Tobias Exhibit No. 1 is offered in evidence.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay.



WC testimony of Mr. Mahlon. F. Tobias, Sr. Manager of 602 and 604 Elsbeth
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias_m.htm


Mr. JENNER. I appreciate your cooperation. These are your original receipt books and we have recited them in the record and now return them to you and thank you very much for bringing them.
Mr. TOBIAS. I have one of these I keep ever since I been in that apartment and I been there for 3 years and a half and I have got every receipt I ever wrote and I keep it on records and lots of times I have to go back to them and there's only one person that doesn't get into them and that's the credit department.



The only problem is that the receipt books are not in evidence. Tobias Exhibits 1 and 2 in Volume XXI of the WC Hearings are hand drawn maps of the Elsbeth St. neighborhood.


And, I don't remember the Tobias rent receipts listed among the evidence the Dallas Police turned over to the FBI.

Did I miss those?


Unless I'm mistaken, we don't have any written verification that Oswald ever lived at any of the places the official record says he did.


Steve Thomas

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by greg parker on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 11:18 am

Steve Thomas wrote:I am posting this in reply to a thread started in this Forum by Lee Farley on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 7:07 pm entitled, House of Cards?
You can find it here: http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t396-a-house-of-cards

Lee wrote:
"When Mrs. Gladys Johnson, who owned the 1026 North Beckley rooming house was deposed by the Warren Commission she quite conveniently forgot to bring her tenant register with her.  Why this was never taken as evidence on the afternoon of the assassination is a question that will forever remain unanswered but Johnson did, thankfully, bring with her a slip of scrap paper that had the name "O. H. Lee" written on it with a short chronology of when this Mr. Lee paid his weekly rent of $8.  This was the only hard proof ever handed over from the owners to assist the authorities in proving that Lee Oswald ever lived at the property."


I have been looking, and to the best of my knowledge, aside from the YMCA logs for November, 1962 and October, 1963, I can't find tenant registers or rent receipts for ANY place Lee Oswald ever lived.



http://neelyst.blogspot.co.uk/
Neely St. Mysteries:

"Unfortunately, M. Waldo George (the owner of 214 Neely St.) was never interviewed by the Warren Commission (WC). Unlike the couple who rented to the Oswalds at Apartment 2, 604 Elsbeth St., Dallas, Mr and Mrs Mahlon F. Tobias, both of whom were interviewed at some length, Mr George got off lightly with a one-page statement. Nor did Mr George furnish the WC with receipts to prove that he had rented to Oswald, receipts which probably ought to have been included among the WC exhibits. Nor did the WC interview Mrs M. Waldo George, the person Oswald spoke to initially about the room (although we don’t know whether she spoke to him personally or just took a phone call from him). The Commission did not even interview Mr and Mrs George B. Gray, the couple who, according to Mr George, lived in the downstairs apartment from the Oswalds (212 West Neely St), although they had shared the building with the Oswalds for seven weeks."


WC testimony of Mary Bledsoe, the owner of 621 Marsalis:
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/bledsoe.htm


Mr. BALL - Then did he tell you what his name was?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - What did he say?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - His name was Oswald, and he put it on this thing, and my son took it and sold it.
Mr. BALL - You said he put it on this thing?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - This right here.
Mr. BALL - What is, "this thing"?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Calendar.
Mr. BALL - Well---
Mr. BALL - Now, you have a calendar here?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - That is my calendar.
Mr. BALL - That is the calendar for December 1963, and I notice it has dates and names and dates. Is that the way you keep books on your rooms?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Yes; but I don't now. I did then, because I just had started. The first one I got was in September.
Mr. BALL - September of 1963?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.
Mr. BALL - He put his name on the calendar?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, got it in September. He got it, my son sold it for $5, and I didn't even know that he tore that out.
Mr. BALL - Now, let me see here in this calendar. It runs from January 1963, to December of 1963, but October of 1963, has been torn out?
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Uh-huh.



WC testimony of Mrs. Mahlon Tobias, Manager of 602 and 604 Elsbeth
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias.htm


Mr. JENNER. Now, in your record here that you keep, this is kept in the usual, regular and ordinary course of business?
Mrs. TOBIAS. You mean my husband keeps this--we keep these books.
Mr. JENNER. You keep these books regularly?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Yes.
Mr. JENNER. And they are your permanent records?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's right--we have them from the time we moved in.
Mr. JENNER. And these entries are all true and correct?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's correct.
Mr. JENNER. And they are entries of receipts of rental payments for your tenants, including Mr. Oswald?
Mrs. TOBIAS. That's correct.



Mr. JENNER. Excuse me--may I ask you a few questions about that--you keep a record of all receipts?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Oh, yes; we have one--they get one and the owner gets one.
Mr. JENNER. When a rent payment is made, you make an entry in the book you have before you of having received a certain amount of money. It's in duplicate or triplicate--the tenant gets a copy of the receipt, you retain one in your book and you send one of the owners of the building?
Mrs. TOBIAS. Well, she gets the name of it and I think this is the other one--my husband has it marked here, so that every time they would come out they would have a lot of trouble looking and let me see, now--yes, he paid--he lacked $8--the balance.



Mr. JENNER You have a receipt No. 0154 in your book of original receipts here, dated December 6, 1962, reciting, "Received from L. H. Oswald--$68 for rental of apartment No. 2, from December 3, 1962, to January 3, 1963. Paid in cash. Signed by Mrs. M. F. Tobias, Sr."


Mr. JENNER. Well, there is a receipt here No. 0178, dated January 4, 1963, "issued to L. H. Oswald for $68 for the rent of Apartment No. 2 from January 3, 1963, to and including February 3, 1963," and it is signed M. F. Tobias, Sr.


Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay. Now, I couldn't swear that that was who the guy was. Now, do you want me to leave the books with you?
Mr. JENNER. Yes; leave the books and we will give them to your husband. Tobias Exhibit No. 1 is offered in evidence.
Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay.



WC testimony of Mr. Mahlon. F. Tobias, Sr. Manager of 602 and 604 Elsbeth
http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/tobias_m.htm


Mr. JENNER. I appreciate your cooperation. These are your original receipt books and we have recited them in the record and now return them to you and thank you very much for bringing them.
Mr. TOBIAS. I have one of these I keep ever since I been in that apartment and I been there for 3 years and a half and I have got every receipt I ever wrote and I keep it on records and lots of times I have to go back to them and there's only one person that doesn't get into them and that's the credit department.



The only problem is that the receipt books are not in evidence. Tobias Exhibits 1 and 2 in Volume XXI of the WC Hearings are hand drawn maps of the Elsbeth St. neighborhood.


And, I don't remember the Tobias rent receipts listed among the evidence the Dallas Police turned over to the FBI.

Did I miss those?


Unless I'm mistaken, we don't have any written verification that Oswald ever lived at any of the places the official record says he did.


Steve Thomas
I don't think you're mistaken, Steve. It's not hard to imagine that some boarding houses apartment buildings in 1963 were pretty slack about record keeping -- but every single one  of them that Oswald ever stayed at? I noticed that in the Tobias testimony recently. It's hard to be shocked any more about anything in this case. What I missed however, might explain why those records are not there... 

Mrs. TOBIAS. Okay. Now, I couldn't swear that that was who the guy was. Now, do you want me to leave the books with you?


Why would she think her guest might not have been Oswald? Could it be that those records got silently removed when it was discovered the signature probably wasn't Oswald's? 

A brief run-down of what can be said about some the residences:

Neely. Of absolute prime importance, given that it allegedly where the weapons had been ordered from and where the BYP were taken - yet as you point out - the owner and neighbor were not brought before the commission, nor any rent records taken. The meter box reader had no one living there and the gas and electricity providers had no records proving Oswald was there (except for a hand written note in a margin of the file). The evidence for him living there was the say-so of the landlord, Marina, the Paines, some White Russians, some mail sent by Marina showing that address, a photo of June on the balcony and the alleged and belated finding of a payslip belonging to a previous tenant on Oswald

Additionally, no neighbors recalled Oswald - with one recalling a family with 2 kids. Ruth's 2 visits coincide with the ordering/shipping of the weapons.  Marguerite claimed that Marina was living there with a member of the White Russian community. Also, the apartment was broken into after it was vacated.

The evidence is reasonably strong for Marina living there - with no physical evidence at all that Oswald did - save the payslip. 

--------------------
N. Beckley. This follows a similar pattern. The evidence for him living there is highly suspect. Other threads here show it was most like boarder Herbert Leon Lee who morphed post-assassination into OH Lee. The grand-daughter of the '63 owners said in interviews during the 50th that her grandmother destroyed her records because she was being harassed or some such nonsense.

Mary Bledsoe. A recently bumped thread here shows how suspect she was as a witness, along with the possibility that Oswald never stayed there at all - the story being fabricated because the cops needed a witness who could testify with certainty that he was on McWatters bus.

The odd one out in all this is Magazine St. In complete contrast to Dallas, every single neighbor seemed to be family with Oswald and all of his comings and goings. Even at Ruth's, no one saw him walk up to Wes's with his large package that morning. And all the neighbors were questioned about it.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
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-----------------------------
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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Steve Thomas on Wed 16 Nov 2016, 9:33 pm

greg parker wrote:

Why would she think her guest might not have been Oswald? Could it be that those records got silently removed when it was discovered the signature probably wasn't Oswald's? 

And, as Lee pointed out, they weren't tested for fingerprints either.

A brief run-down of what can be said about some the residences:

Neely. Of absolute prime importance, given that it allegedly where the weapons had been ordered from and where the BYP were taken - yet as you point out - the owner and neighbor were not brought before the commission, nor any rent records taken.


The meter box reader had no one living there and the gas and electricity providers had no records proving Oswald was there (except for a hand written note in a margin of the file).

Mrs. George, the wife of the owner worked at the Dallas Power and Light. If you needed access to the records in order to dummy them up...

The evidence is reasonably strong for Marina living there - with no physical evidence at all that Oswald did - save the payslip. 

I have been toying with the idea that Marina lived there, but not Lee.
On at least three occasions, Marina said they were living there in January. Lee denied he ever lived there.
And, I think, that every time Ruth Paine went there to visit, Lee was not there.

Mary Bledsoe. A recently bumped thread here shows how suspect she was as a witness, along with the possibility that Oswald never stayed there at all - the story being fabricated because the cops needed a witness who could testify with certainty that he was on McWatters bus.

I think Mary Bledsoe said it best:

Mrs. BLEDSOE - Had his things on his hand and had his bag, but after he paid my $7 he went out---I don't know, I think this YMCA, but I am not supposed to know where...,
Mr. BALL - But, before you go into that, I notice you have been reading from some notes before you.
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Well, because I forget what I have to say.
She testified on April 2, 1964 and she made these notes in the week prior to that. That's what, like 3 months after the fact? And she had a lawyer with her. How could she afford a lawyer when she couldn't refund Oswald the $2.00 she owed him?

It always bothered me that Forrest Sorrels was coaching her. Why would the Head of the Secret Service in Dallas need to be coaching the 65 year old (or however old she was at the time) landlady of a rooming house where Oswald lived for only one week?

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 5:53 pm

Mrs. JOHNSON. No; not until we saw his picture flash on the television as the officers were out. Those particulars was found in his pocket after he killed Tippit, after his arrest. So I came from the restaurant, I guess 1 or 1:30, and these officers were there 1:30 or 2, something like that, anyway, it was after this assassination, and as I drove in, well, the officers were there and they told me that they was looking for this character and I told them I didn't think I had anyone by that name there but we went through the register carefully two or three times and there was no Oswald there and I had two new tenants, rather new tenants, so we had carried them around the house to show them and we was going to start in the new tenants' rooms and my husband was sitting in the living room and seen this picture flash on the television and he said, "Please go around that house and tell him it was this guy that lived in this room here"; and it was O. H. Lee.



Reread that a couple times then this:


Mrs. JOHNSON. O.H. L-e-e [spelling].
Mr. BALL. Did he sign anything with that name?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; I have it in my purse.
Mr. BALL. May I see it?
Mrs. JOHNSON. I will be glad to--I don't want you to keep it. I want you to--I brought it for your information. I knew you was going to ask that.
Mr. BALL. Now, is this in his handwriting?
Mrs. JOHNSON. This "O. H. Lee" is in his handwriting and this other is in the housekeeper's handwriting--Mrs. Roberts.

Mr. BALL. And these are the rates you gave him?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes.
Mr. BALL. I would like this marked as an exhibit to this deposition, mark this Exhibit A.
[Exhibit so marked.]
Mr. BALL. Could we make a copy of this and return this to you, Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes; I have been told that I could sell this and I haven't gotten any money. I think about $30 is what I have received, all the trouble and all I've had and I've had to take the rugs up once or twice. People like to have driven us crazy before we asked for any information what to do. I hated to be rude to people, I didn't know what to do but they got so----
Mr. BALL. We will make a picture of this and give it back to you.
Mrs. JOHNSON. May I have something to erase this November 13, 15--I got that wrong, anyway. I was looking at the calendar and this, I was thinking it was November 13 that he left he left my place on a Wednesday before this assassination on Friday.


What?
Mrs AC Arthur Carl Gladys Johnson you deserve an EMMY!
That is some real garbage in garbage out testimony.
She wants to correct her mistake she made filling out the slip of paper while checking her calendar, ha!   Where is the "register" the cops searched through, with 22 rooms we are to believe OH LEE signed a basically blank piece of paper? Was all her records on slips of fucking paper.... of course not.
This is 'in your face', 'out right', 'full frontal', sworn perjury.


Mr. BALL. We will make a copy of this and give the original back to you and we will mark this "A." Did he sign that "O. H. Lee" in your presence?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes sir.
Mr. BALL. On that day?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir; the day he rented the room, they sign the register--they sign the register before I accept any money.
Mr. BALL. I'm talking about this "O. H. Lee" signature on this document; he signed that on that date?
Mrs. JOHNSON. Yes, sir.


Ball understands the difference between a book or register and a slip of paper.
Slip likely filled out in one sitting, by we are told from Mrs Johnson, Earlene Roberts hand.
And how can Mrs Johnson make a mistake on a slip of paper she did not fill out but Roberts did?
And what is she talking about anyways?
Lee supposedly had his property there in room O.
Lee paid for the week as money is accepted before register is marked.
Lee left Wed?
Lee went to Irving Thurs. night after work.
Gladys saying she ripped up the register is a neat trick being the cops checked it and neither photographed it or took it as evidence. she gave interview saying she ripped up register. She had slip of paper she said is the register intact at her testimony before warren commission after she gives interview where she says she ripped up the register...

SELECT COMMITTEE ON ASSASSINATIONS
NAME: AMY GLADYS JOHNSON
Date: 10/14/77
Time: 1:30
Address: 1026 No. Beckley St. Dallas, Texas
Place: Residence.
Interview:
Mrs. JOHNSON owns and operates this rooming house. She and her husband had owned the premises for 42 years. He died three years ago - so did EARLENE ROBERTS, who resided here in addition to running the rooming house aspect for many years. Years ago, (during 1963), Mrs. JOHNSON owned and operated her restaurant - JOHNSON'S CAFE - located at 1029 Young St., "between Field and Poydras Sts., within five blocks of Dealey Plaza". Since gone out of business as evidenced by relatively new parking garage at this site.
She was serving lunch at the Cafe when "I heard the shots, then sirens. I went right on working even after the news of the shooting. I did take my usual break after lunch, arriving home about 1:30 or so. There were FBI agents all over the place. They wanted to know which rooms were LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S. When I told them no one by that name lived here, they said they knew better. They'd found my address in his pocket when they arrested him at the Texas Theatre (time discrepency not called to the lady's attention - wrong atmosphere). While they were talking to me - still in the living room, but others already…
Interviewer:
John J. Moriarty with Clarence Day
Date Transcribed November- 7, 1977


Whole thing is bollocks mates. Cheers, Ed

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Steve Thomas on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 8:30 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
Whole thing is bollocks mates. Cheers, Ed
Ed,

I was reading through Earlene Roberts' testimony, and there were a couple of times when I went, "Whoa."

She got married when she was 14, maybe 15. She said she got married when she was in the ninth grade.


Mrs. ROBERTS. No; there was one weekend that he didn't go out.
Mr. BALL. Which one was that?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, as far as: you know what?
Mr. BALL. Was that the weekend?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I think---now, if I had the books, I could tell you.
Mr. BALL. Which books?
Mrs. ROBERTS. The books that are over there on North Beckley.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that?
Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me.
Mr. BALL. What did they say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there.
Mr. BALL. What did he say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books and I said, "No; there's no one here by that name," and they tried to make me remember and I couldn't, and Mrs. Johnson come in in the meantime and there wasn't nobody there by that name, and Mrs. Johnson said, "Mrs. Roberts, don't you have him?" And, I said, "No; we don't, for here is my book and there is nobody there by that name." We checked it back a year.

She's talking about "books" and not "slips of paper". The "books" are still there as of April 8th when she testified.

Mrs. Johnson testified on April 1, 1964.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember the date Oswald rented the room?
Mrs. JOHNSON. October 14.
Mr. BALL. What time of day did he come by?
Mrs. JOHNSON. It was between 4 and 5 o'clock, I do know that because I was home that day...

Earlene Roberts testified on April 8, 1964
Mr. BALL. Did you rent it to him, or did Mrs. Johnson?
Mrs. ROBERTS. I rented the room to him.
Mr. BALL. You did?
Mrs. ROBERTS. She talked to him, and she had to go back to the work and that was what I was supposed to do---I rented the rooms---she didn't know what vacancies she had.

Mr. BALL. What time of day did he come in there?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Oh, it was in the early afternoon---I imagine between 1 and 2 o'clock when he came in and looked at the room; and he rented it and paid for it; and then left, and went and got his things and I don't know---it must have been around 5 or 6 o'clock when he come back in.

Mr. BALL. Do you remember the day the President was shot?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes; I remember it---who would forget that?
Mr. BALL. And the police officers came out there?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. Do you remember what they said?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was Will Fritz' men---it was plainclothesmen and I was at the back doing something and Mr. Johnson answered the door and they identified themselves and then he called me.
Mr. BALL. What did they say?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they asked him if there was a Harvey Lee Oswald there.

Mrs. ROBERTS. And he says, "I don't know, I'll have to call the housekeeper," and he called me and I went and got the books.
Mrs. ROBERTS. No---he registered as O. H. Lee and they were asking for Harvey Lee Oswald.

You have to remember that this is about 1:30 in the afternoon, before LHO has even been arrested at the Texas Theater; unless the Johnson's are way off on their time estimates. I do know that the Dallas Police arrived at the Beckley Ave. address before they searched Ruth Paine's residence in Irving and criss crossed a phone number they found for Oswald. And, as someone pointed out to me, the name Harvey Lee Oswald corresponds to the name on the list of TSBD employees that Jack Revill drew up about 3:00 in the afternoon, as well as a whole bunch of CIA files in that name.

Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, he was registered as O. H. Lee and I come to find out he was Oswald and I wish I had never known it.
Mr. BALL. Why?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, they put me through the third degree.
Mr. BALL. Who did?
Mrs. ROBERTS. The FBI, Secret Service, Mr. Will Fritz' men and Bill Decker's.
Mr. BALL. They did?
Mrs. ROBERTS. Every time I would walk out on the front perch somebody was standing with a camera on me they had me scared to death. (I'm assuming here she's referring to TV and magazine people).

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by greg parker on Fri 18 Nov 2016, 10:57 pm

Ed Ledoux wrote:Whole thing is bollocks mates. Cheers, Ed

You got it, Ed.

Here is the grand-daughter explaining why her grandmother destroyed evidence.


Pat Hall to CBS News Oct 18, 2013 wrote:Hall told Smith that when her grandmother found out what her boarder has allegedly done, "She was scared, humiliated. And, in fact, she even destroyed the sign-in sheets showing that he had paid his rent. She just wanted to erase him."

So if we take that at face value, Gladys destroyed those records on Nov 22.

My guess is that she destroyed them at the request of Dallas Police.

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by greg parker on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 7:58 pm

More curious testimony from Mrs Tobias




What became of the card?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Steve Thomas on Sun 27 Nov 2016, 11:09 pm

Steve Thomas wrote:
I have been looking, and to the best of my knowledge, aside from the YMCA logs for November, 1962 and October, 1963, I can't find tenant registers or rent receipts for ANY place Lee Oswald ever lived.

Steve Thomas
I don't know if it means much of anything, but as the owner of 2703 Mercedes St. in Fort Worth during the summer and fall of 1962, Chester Riggs told the FBI that he didn't issue rent receipts, that he didn't keep rental records by individual unit, and grouped all the rent receipts together as a group for income tax purposes.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/FBI%20Records%20Files/105-82555/105-82555%20Section%20016/105-16c.pdf
So, there's another one.

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Mon 28 Nov 2016, 10:18 pm

Greg I recall looking for Tobias receipt back on Lancer.
There are no extant records we can see.

Great stuff Steve!



And....
Mr George got his dates wrong... gee if he had receipts he wouldn't have gotten them wrong and if he had receipts how did he get his dates wrong?

FBI said:
JUREK made available and turned over a 5x8 card containing
the application for rental of apartment 2 at 604 Elsbeth

Street, Dallas, in the mane of "L. R. OSWALD." JUREK pointed
out that this application bore the handwritten date "Nov 3/62"
which he stated represented the date the application was
received and the date on which OSWALD first rented the
apartment. JUREK observed that the application bore only
limited information in addition to the name of the applicant,
and he was unable to state whether the handwriting on the
application was prepared by the applicant or by the manager
of the above apartment. He volunteered, however, that he
had instructed the sinner of the above apartments to have
such applications prepared by the applicants themselves,
and for that reason he felt that the handwriting probably
was prepared by the applicant. He advised that the manager
of the above apartments, M. F. TOBIAS, would be able to
furnish definite information as to whether or not the handwriting
on the rental application was actually prepared by OSWALD.
JUREK observed that the space for "Last Address"
bore the notation "Service" and it was his opinion that
this notation may have been placed on the application to
indicate that the applicant was in the military service
prior to the time he rented the above apartment on
November 3, 1962. He advised that information contained
on the back of the application with reference to payments
of rent indicated OSWALD and his wife and one child resided
in the above apartment from November 3,- 1962, to about
March 1, 1963. He advised the rental payments were $68.00
per month and that record of payments on the application
reflected OSWALD paid the entire $68.00 on about the
third of each month except on one occasion, that being
on or about February 3, 1963, when he paid only $60.00

And

Prior to furnishing the above rental application
to SA. THOMPSON and PEDEN, JUREK placed his name on the
card for future identification purposes.


and,

TOBIAS placed his name and the date Novesber 23,
1963, on the OSWALD rental application referred to above
for future identification purposes.


And Greg asks where this card is....FBI lost it because it F'd their flow 

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by greg parker on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 9:00 am

Marguerite claimed at some stage that Marina lived at Neely St with a White Russian. Based on Mahlon Tobias' testimony, you'd almost believe she was living on Elbeth with a White Russian as well.

This piece of testimony follows on from a discussion about Lee talking in a foreign language on the phone with "George".

Mr. JENNER. Did you ask him what language that was he was speaking in? 
Mr. TOBIAS. Well, he came over--when he first came in he told us he was Czech. 
Mr. JENNER. When was this--this 3 weeks other time? 
Mr. TOBIAS. No; that was after he moved in, and my landlady is Czechoslovakian. 
Mr. JENNER. Your landlady is Czechoslovakian? 
Mr. TOBIAS. My landlady is Czechoslovakian herself, and so one day when Marion was over at the house, Mrs. Oswald was in there--she had come in there and sat down. 
Mr. JENNER. This was an occasion when Marina, or do you mean the landlady, Marion came in? 
Mr. TOBIAS. I say Mrs. Jurek was there. 
Mr. JENNER. Mrs. Jurek was in your apartment? 
Mr. TOBIAS. Yes; she came to collect the rent and Mrs. Oswald was in there. 
Mr. JENNER. She was visiting? 
Mr. TOBIAS. And my wife says, "Mrs. Jurek, Mrs. Oswald is Czechoslovakian." Mrs. Jurek says, "All right, speak something. I'm Czech too." She says, "No, we're not Czech, we're Russian, but my husband doesn't want us say that because people will be mean to us." 
Mr. JENNER. How do you know she said that? 
Mr. TOBIAS. I was there. 
Mr. JENNER. Did you hear Marina say, "No; I'm not Czech, I'm Russian." 
Mr. TOBIAS. Yes. 
Mr. JENNER. "And my husband doesn't want people to know that because people will be mean to me?" 
Mr. TOBIAS. Yes. 
Mr. JENNER. She said that much in English so that you would understand it? 
Mr. TOBIAS. Yes, sir. 
Mr. JENNER That's quite a bit of English. 
Mr. TOBIAS. Well, I know. That's what I'm trying to tell you--she knew more English than she let on she did. 
Mr. JENNER. That's of interest to us--she was able to communicate that whole idea to you in English? 
Mr. TOBIAS. That's right. 
Mr. JENNER. And did she speak some Russian then to this lady? 
Mr. TOBIAS. No--after she told Mrs. Jurek she was Russian, that was it, because Mrs. Jurek didn't--she was Czech and she didn't know no Russian.


-------------
"Oswald" says "WE" are Czech.  Marina says "WE" are Russian.  

"Oswald" "beats" Marina at these addresses. No reports of that anywhere else. 



Oswald has a slightly different address on his library card. 

Also notice how Jenner changes the plural to the singular. 

Here is 605:

http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/605-S-Oak-Cliff-Blvd-APT-2-Dallas-TX-75208/2099233284_zpid/

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 29 Nov 2016, 6:29 pm

Those are the only 'checks', ha ha. No refund Checks, payment via Check, and a serious lack of documentation by a federal agency tasked with documenting it. 
Takes me back to the Neely neighbor's comments to me about "Marina" chatting with their daughter about their respective babies. More typical of a Czech or White Russian than the Soviet Marina? Perhaps.


And Apt 2 604 Elsbeth...could never understand why no one else got this address correct. The twists they need to do saying Lee got his mail in the other apartments box because it was wrote down wrong????
Greg this whole deal is hookey.
Too many stories need to be put together to have Lee living at these addresses. Marina may have been staying around the area but without a register, cashed refund check, registration card, or shitty slips of paper there is bunk all mate.

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Re: No rent receipts anywhere?

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