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greg parker
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:08 am
Will Hart wrote:Thanks for having me Greg. Here is one of the most interesting items I found. It’s in the “New Dalzell” file from the JG investigation and hosted on NARA.

It begins on page 4 of 38. https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7564790?q=*:*
Thanks Will.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
"
For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
 



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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 8:14 pm
Welcome to ROKC,Will.
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Wed 11 Sep 2019, 11:53 pm
Here are some more interesting links to documents and sources that I found while studying the Bolton Ford incident. Two things have really stood out to me. One, Dalzell has claimed to be a Navy cryptographer. Having served in WWII. The Navy denies he ever served in a memo to Hoover in 1961. The same can be said for Charlie Waters. He claims to have served in Marine intelligence, they also deny he ever served. The second, Guy Bannister was not involved in this group until Dalzell contacted him on advice from Grady Durham. The FDC is not a Bannister group!

Below are the links and a brief description. I have plenty more if anyone is interested.

More on FDC, Dalzell, and Waters.

Beginning in June of 1956, the State Department and FBI investigates William Dalzell for violation of the registration act. Dalzell is working for Sinclair oil in Ethiopia. He loses his job for unknown reasons and begins to work with the Ethiopian Intelligence services informing them about Sinclair Oil. This investigation never amounts to anything and Dalzell settles back in the states in New Orleans and begins anti Castro work. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76287#relPageId=3&tab=page


1/20/1961 Bolton Ford bud sheet for FDC
http://harveyandlee.net/Comrade/Bolton.gif

3/30/1961 CIA to FBI. A report on FDC members and background info. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=32324&search=104-10069-10034#relPageId=2&tab=page

4/7/1961 Sergio Arcacha-Smith tells FBI that Dalzell contacts him and offers $200K for gambling concessions. Dalzell claims he represents Carlos Marcelo.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=132863&search=william_dalzell#relPageId=52&tab=page

8/10/1961 FBI agent Hosty interviews Charlie Waters in Dallas about anti Castro and anti communist activities.
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76766#relPageId=15&tab=page

******9/14/1961 Navy DENIES Dalzell or Waters have ever served!!!!!

Both men claim to have been in the service. Waters in military intelligence (Marines) and Dalzell a cryptographer (Navy.) https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76766#relPageId=13&tab=page *****

11/25/1963 William Watson VP at Bolton, calls FBI to report the “Bolton Ford” incident.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/B%20Disk/Bolton%20Ford%20Co/Item%2002.pdf

11/25/1963 Oscar Deslatte (salesman) is interviews by FBI. Shown Oswald photo. Negative identification.
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=47745#relPageId=56&tab=page

5/2/1967 Fred Sewell, manager Bolton Ford, testifies for JG and for the first time, adds the name “Lee” to the “story.” Testimony starts as item 92 and relevant portion is item 94.
https://catalog.archives.gov/id/7564934?q=jim%20garrison%20alcock

6/8/1967 Charlie Waters interview.
He says Dalzell was head of FDC. Claims that Dalzell and himself (1961) were working on a deal with Edgardo Zapata where they would help overthrow the Honduras government for help in overthrowing Castro. Waters claim he served in military intelligence (Marines) and was an Embassy guard while in the service. Waters is in contact with J. Walton Moore, Dallas CIA Officer in charge domestic contacts.
[Waters never left the states, shouldn’t have contact with Moore if so]
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76763#relPageId=2&tab=page

11/2/1967 William Dalzell Grand Jury Testimony. Background information on Dalzell, his anti Castro activities, relationship to FDC, and the Bolton Ford incident. Page 14 begins Bolton Ford incident. Dalzell claims Bannister recommended to him by Grady Durham. Previous to that, Bannister unknown to Dalzell. Confirms the FDC address listed on bid sheet and knowledge of Charlie Waters attempting to solicit funds and make purchases for FDC.
http://aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/garr/grandjury/pdf/Dalzell.pdf

12/18/1967 Betty Parot, once close to Dalzell, also an FBI informant who told FBI what Dalzell and FDC were up to. She claims to have met Joseph Moore and thinks he dies in BOP invasion. Also confirms Dalzell started the FDC, not Bannister. Parot claims Dalzell ran out of town by Ed Butler.
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/F%20Disk/Friends%20of%20Democratic%20Cuba/Item%2002.pdf






greg parker
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 8:34 am
Thanks for all that, Will. Yes, Dalzell was the mover and shaker on it, not Banister. As I posted previously, Banister was listed as a potential director, but the thing folded before that happened.

Re: CW - is the correct spelling "Waters" or "Watters"? Lots of docs have the latter and the two spellings may explain how the navy was able to deny knowledge of him. 

Dalzell did claim to GJ to be familiar with the name "Joseph Moore" and nominated Waters/Watters as someone who could held identify him. Did Garrison ever get to CW? 

I am tending to agree that CW was the Oswald figure at Bolton. I had always thought that it may have been one of Oswald's relatives on his father's side. I think Garrison also once mused on that possibility.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
"
For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
 



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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:48 am
Greg, I think his name is spelled Waters. He went on to become a prominent advocate for veterans affairs. Waters was a local “celebrity” amongst the veterans late in his life. Here is some evidence of that. https://youtu.be/Wm42O96uhLI

There are additional videos available, I cannot find now, where Waters himself is the speaker. They are not related to anything discussed here. (Bolton, Oswald, or NO)

There is also the allegations of Raymond Carnay, he claims to have encountered Waters in Dallas in 1961 as Waters was recruiting pilots for a new anti Castro organization. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673&relPageId=64

As far as JG, I don’t recall he ever spoke with or interviewed Charlie Waters. I don’t believe he did. No other researchers have either. He passed in 2015.
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:12 am
I’ve also read somewhere else, maybe on this forum, that there is speculation that Carlos Bringuier was somehow involved with the incident. I found nothing to indicate CB was. However one of the more interesting items I found on CB was the fact his own NEPHEW was an informant for Castro! AND his nephew GAVE UP THE ENTIRE DRE operation in Cuba. Over 300 “agents” were rounded up because of him and the DRE essentially became obsolete in Cuba. I wonder why no one mentions this. I found it fascinating.
greg parker
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:14 am
Will Hart wrote:Greg, I think his name is spelled Waters. He went on to become a prominent advocate for veterans affairs. Waters was a local “celebrity” amongst the veterans late in his life. Here is some evidence of that. https://youtu.be/Wm42O96uhLI

There are additional videos available, I cannot find now, where Waters himself is the speaker. They are not related to anything discussed here. (Bolton, Oswald, or NO)

There is also the allegations of Raymond Carnay, he claims to have encountered Waters in Dallas in 1961 as Waters was recruiting pilots for a new anti Castro organization. https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=95673&relPageId=64

As far as JG, I don’t recall he ever spoke with or interviewed Charlie Waters. I don’t believe he did. No other researchers have either. He passed in 2015.
Okay, Waters it is - but those searching MF are advised to check under both spellings in order t read Dalzell's GJ testimony.

In that testimony, Dalzell does describe Waters in a way that matches Oswald in some respects. Do you have an opinion as to why he would use the alias "Oswald" at Bolton Ford?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
"
For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
 



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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:20 am
Greg, yes that is great advice. Use both spellings of the name to find the relevant documents. I have put together a PDF with hundreds of link in chronological order related to this incident. I may share that in the future if anyone is interested.

As far as the Oswald alias, I have no idea. At this time Oswald was in Minsk at the radio plant I believe. The newspaper articles and coverage of his “defection” were old news by then. I doubt they pulled it from there. It’s possible they knew another local Oswald and chose that name.

I’ve wondered if they used the name for some CI purposes.

Honestly why they chose Oswald is beyond me.
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 11:31 am
Will Hart wrote:I’ve also read somewhere else, maybe on this forum, that there is speculation that Carlos Bringuier was somehow involved with the incident. I found nothing to indicate CB was. However one of the more interesting items I found on CB was the fact his own NEPHEW was an informant for Castro! AND his nephew GAVE UP THE ENTIRE DRE operation in Cuba. Over 300 “agents” were rounded up because of him and the DRE essentially became obsolete in Cuba. I wonder why no one mentions this. I found it fascinating.
Here is what you most like;y read on page one of this thread:

Big Jimbo doesn't look like he is very light on his feet and yet he continues to point to more elephants in the room that he is soon forced to dance around.


His latest elephant is that Oswald's old sparring partner, Carlos Bringuier was the person who phoned the FBI about Bolton Ford.


Someone needs to point out to Jimbo that Carlos was the PROPAGANDA officer for the DRE and he had previously tried to sell the idea that Oswald was a Leftist who had tried to infiltrate anti-Castro groups.

Here is the document. Jim was wrong. CB informed the Secret Service, not the FBI
https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=57720&relPageId=335

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
"He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
"
For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
 



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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:24 pm
Thanks for posting that again Greg. I had honestly forgotten about that document. The one thing I notice is the report claims the only information Deslatte has was the bid sheet with FDC on it. It leaves out the fact that “Oswald” was also on the sheet.

In addition Deslatte did not identify Oswald when shown photos so why would he tell a friend that “Oswald” had tried to purchase discounted trucks.

FWIW this incident is often described as men trying to buy jeeps or trucks. It’s my understanding they were actually trying to buy Econoline vans to convert into ambulances. The econoline has a model with a truck bed but I think the men were looking for the vans.
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The Bolton Ford Incident - Page 2 Empty Re: The Bolton Ford Incident

on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 10:29 pm
Another interesting factoid about Mr. Dalzell is he made at least one trip into Cuba pre bay of pigs to scout the Cubans radio capabilities. However, I couldn’t find much information on that.
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