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Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 8:34 am
Hi,

I allways wondered why Baker and Truly insisted on Oswald being so cool and collected when they allegedly confronted him in the 2nd floor lunchroom ca 90 sec after the last shot echoed out in the Plaza. Given it’s clear undermining of same Oswalds guilt of murdering JFK. That is, until I stumbled on the self evident explanation in some forum years back. DPD’s Marion Baker could not be expected to let the killer of the president slip away and thereafter kill one of their own if only the slightest sign of suspect behaviour was detectable on Oswald. Of course.

I also read that Baker, in spite of no detectable signs of guilt on Oswald, was criticized by his fellow co workers in the DPD for letting Oswald slip away and for not locking down TSBD immediatly, instead of foolishly without backup chasing up an unknown building for a dangerous assassin.

Here is my question. Is it anyone here who knows where I can find this critique more specified and if possible, with sources named?

I would be very grateful for any lead.

Ex Plain
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 9:13 am
The second segment for sure was done by major Stavis Ellis who criticised Baker and if I am not mistaken he did so in a telephone interview with Denis Morissette and also in No More Silence.
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Thu 11 Jan 2018, 9:45 am
Thank you very much, Barto! Exactly what I’ve been looking for. If anyone find anything else on the same theme, please let me know.

Best regards

EP
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 3:59 am
Ex Plain wrote:Thank you very much, Barto! Exactly what I’ve been looking for. If anyone find anything else on the same theme, please let me know.

Best regards

EP
Welcome aboard, Ex Plain.
 
I think, when encountered, Oswald was indeed "cool as a cucumber," because the encounter actually took place near the front entrance of the TSBD while Oswald had been standing around like so many others who were watching the motorcade pass by.
 
This meeting was eventually relocated up to the second floor lunchroom to eliminate Oswald's air-tight alibi because he was the designated patsy. His cool and collected demeanor was relocated along with him.
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 6:22 am
Thank you, Stan Dane! Yes, I agree on Oswald being Prayer Man (99%) or somewhere close (99.99%) at the TSBD main entrance during the time of the shooting. Thanks to all of you guys on ROKC. And I agree that he was cool as cucumber, but I did wonder for a while why they kept the ’collected demeanor’ since it is partly underminig ”Oswald who has just dashed through the TSBD after killing the president’, without even the slightest change in breathing. Baker had to have an ’alibi’ too, for letting the assassin slip away and kill again, this time one of their own fellow policemen. I just needed a source for some of the slack he got from this fiasco since I knew I did read about it somewhere in the past.

Any news on the Darnell film as of yet?
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 7:20 am
Ex Plain wrote:Thank you, Stan Dane! Yes, I agree on Oswald being Prayer Man (99%) or somewhere close (99.99%) at the TSBD main entrance during the time of the shooting. Thanks to all of you guys on ROKC. And I agree that he was cool as cucumber, but I did wonder for a while why they kept the ’collected demeanor’ since it is partly underminig ”Oswald who has just dashed through the TSBD after killing the president’, without even the slightest change in breathing. Baker had to have an ’alibi’ too, for letting the assassin slip away and kill again, this time one of their own fellow policemen. I just needed a source for some of the slack he got from this fiasco since I knew I did read about it somewhere in the past.

Any news on the Darnell film as of yet?
I think the cool demeanor thing (following a 90-second sprint across the 6th floor and down four flights of stairs) was part of the plan to paint Oswald as this weird loner psychopath who wasn't a "normal" person. This helped to point attention away from any conspiracy. I mean, what defense is there from a lone nut with ice water in his veins who decides to do bad things? (Ruby ended up the same way: he was labeled a disturbed individual who just snapped. Damn the bad luck.)
 
If you look at the evidence and the process of how the encounter was relocated to the second floor, it was really something cobbled together over a period of weeks. The final product was, at best, lousy, but the piece of crap they came up with fit with the overall objective of officially declaring Oswald as the lone killer.
 
It sounds like you're quite up to speed on things, but if you're not familiar with all of the most reliable evidence for relocation, I laid it all out (based on the ground-breaking work of Greg Parker) in the "First to Second" thread where I also link to a video series I put together for those who prefer that format. If you want graduate-level knowledge on all things Prayer Man, visit Bart Kamp's website.
 
There's no news on getting access to the Darnell film, or Wiegman, for that matter. We're stuck in a holding pattern at present. Hoping for a breakthrough here someday soon. I think it will happen, eventually.
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 9:37 pm
Thank you, I’m following the developments around PM fairly close through you guys and Bart Kamp’s site is excellent. Just needed a source for the critique of Baker and swiftly got it, thanks! And yes I’m aware of the ”ice in his veins-argument” but I also see the argument of Baker needing an ’alibi’ for letting Oswald slip through his fingers, as equaly compelling.

Thank you guys!

E.P.
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Fri 12 Jan 2018, 10:32 pm
Ex Plain wrote:Thank you, I’m following the developments around PM fairly close through you guys and Bart Kamp’s site is excellent. Just needed a source for the critique of Baker and swiftly got it, thanks! And yes I’m aware of the ”ice in his veins-argument” but I also see the argument of Baker needing an ’alibi’ for letting Oswald slip through his fingers, as equaly compelling.

Thank you guys!

E.P.
It is a compelling idea and you may be right.
 
It reminds me of a meme I made back in my early days here when I was doing a lot of this kind of stuff on a regular basis:
 
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sat 13 Jan 2018, 9:29 pm
Welcome to ROKC Ex Plain.
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sat 13 Jan 2018, 10:51 pm
Thank you, Vinny.

Yes, Stan Day, Baker was not the sharpest knife in the box. Wonder how he became convinced of that lying was the right thing to do? Patriotism = saving the country from civil unrest? Or a more sinister motif?
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 4:21 am
Hi Ex Plain and welcome. It is my personal impression that Baker was a fly in the ointment for the actors that day. I think that in the minds of the plotters he was supposed to ride on past the TSBD just like the other motorcycle cops in the motorcade, but as fate would have it he stopped and started running about. 

His first day account became the reference point around which the official story had to be spun, distorted, and revised. It would have been far, far easier to simply let Truly and a confirming "witness" (somebody in on the plan) to simply place Oswald anywhere they wanted him. It would have been so easy that so long as Oswald was anywhere on site, even on the front steps, then it was in the bag. But Baker's presence complicated everything.

As for manipulating Baker after the fact, it looks like it was pretty much a matter of intimidation (he didn't want to end up like Oswald after all) and keeping him well out of  the media until the hearings, which they did. The whole process was very ragged around the edges and they had to go off the record multiple times to get his recorded testimony hammered into the shape they needed, but they got it done and Baker made it through a very bad day.

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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 6:13 am
Excellent post, Jake. It's also worth considering the guilt trip that could be dropped on Baker with Tippet's murder.

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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 7:24 am
Thank you Steely and absolutely that was a branding iron he wanted no part of. He could not be the one who let a cop killer get off, whether said cop killer was the assassin or not.

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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Sun 14 Jan 2018, 9:34 am
Tank you, Jake Sykes. I agree on the intimadion, the guilt trip and how ’stupid’ Marion broke up the planned scenario, but I’m wondering how the plotters ’sold’ the story to him in a way that didn’t explicitly said that Oswald was the designated patsy in a de facto coup d’etat. He looks too relaxed and content for a guy who knows what’s really going on. He had to believe that his lies was a part of a benign cover up where a dead ”lone nut” was the best truth given the stakes at hand.

Or?
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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

on Tue 16 Jan 2018, 6:44 pm
Another question. On the site prayer-man.com it states: ”Major Stavis Ellis rode in the first vehicle of the motorcade with Dallas Police Chief Jesse Curry. He was responsible for assigning the motorcycle policemen to the motorcade of The President. He gave Marrion Baker the task to stay close to the Press Bus.”

But, in an interview with said Ellis he says he rode on a motorcycle to the left front of JFK in the same motocade? Wich is it? Anyone?

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Re: Oswald calm and collected when confronted by Baker?

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