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Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by beowulf on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 5:15 am

The threat would be the implied threat that things will go much harder in court unless you play ball like your partner is...

Can't speak for Australian legal system but in the US, 90% of criminal convictions result from a plea bargained guilty plea. If cops couldn't use, every day, the implied threat that things will go much harder in court unless suspect play ball (and if police can lie about a dead person being alive they can certainly lie about an accomplice being cooperative), the criminal justice system would grind to a halt.

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by beowulf on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 5:38 am

Greg, perhaps people may sort of discount all of the interesting facts you point out about the people around Oswald in Dallas because they already suspect LBJ and his Texas cronies.
If the LBJ set was involved, whether or not Johnson himself was involved in murder plot, it makes sense that the Dallas ambush only happened after (if reports are to believed) prior related plots that fall in Miami, Tampa and Chicago fell through.

Just as serial killers tend to be pretty decent to their neighbors, I doubt the Texans wanted Kennedy killed so close to home if they could have helped it.

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by greg parker on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 7:10 am

beowulf wrote:The threat would be the implied threat that things will go much harder in court unless you play ball like your partner is...

Can't speak for Australian legal system but in the US, 90% of criminal convictions result from a plea bargained guilty plea. If cops couldn't use, every day, the implied threat that things will go much harder in court unless suspect play ball (and if police can lie about a dead person being alive they can certainly lie about an accomplice being cooperative), the criminal justice system would grind to a halt.
Consideration should be given to greater external transparency of plea bargaining, even simply introducing a register to keep track of when these deals occur. In accordance with Charlie Bezzina’s discussion of the Mokbel plea bargain in Victoria, “these deals are an essential tool in saving court time and costs, but … closer scrutiny needs to be applied to these matters”. It would be a significant achievement to see informed and considered changes to plea bargaining across Australian criminal jurisdictions.
http://theconversation.com/plea-bargains-and-the-efficiencies-of-justice-8440
My key concern is hinted at in this story - that it can be misused and misapplied to, in some case, favor certain individuals, or in other cases, to scare someone into accepting a plea bargain rather than risk a maximum penalty, even though they are innocent (or at least cannot be proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt). It's a Game Show version of justice... pick a door...

While ever untold and largely unaccounted for billions are ploughed into phony wars and intelligence agency programs, the cost saving imperative when it comes to justice, education and health services will never wash with me.

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by greg parker on Thu 03 Oct 2013, 7:16 am

beowulf wrote:Greg, perhaps people may sort of discount all of the interesting facts you point out about the people around Oswald in Dallas because they already suspect LBJ and his Texas cronies.
If the LBJ set was involved, whether or not Johnson himself was involved in murder plot, it makes sense that the Dallas ambush only happened after (if reports are to believed) prior related plots that fall in Miami, Tampa and Chicago fell through.

Just as serial killers tend to be pretty decent to their neighbors, I doubt the Texans wanted Kennedy killed so close to home if they could have helped it.
It's far more complex than "LBJ and/or his cronies did it". They certainly had nothing to do with the MC shenanigans for example.

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
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            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 04 Oct 2013, 12:28 am

greg parker wrote:Is there no one (apart from Dan) who thinks it's at least mildly interesting that Ruth's lawyer was a friend of LBJ and had dated Connally? That this lawyer had been an assistant DA under Wade? That her husband was on the DCLU delegation to check on Oswald? That this delegation had connections to FBI counterintelligence efforts regarding local "communists"? That the husband himself was allegedly rejected for military intelligence work - based on an alleged subversive background? That  he complained about being harassed by (presumably) the FBI? That he set his divorce practice up in the very same building as the MIG 112?  
I do, Greg. And I must say, you deserve much Kudos for this crucial research. I'm just sorry I waited this long to tell you.

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by greg parker on Fri 04 Oct 2013, 7:06 am

Thanks Hasan,

I honestly wasn't fishing for a compliment. I was just a bit puzzled by the seeming lack of any interest in these areas.

But then, when you see 10,000 replies to a thread about 2 pixels being a police cap in the bushes, I guess I shouldn't be at all surprised! Sleep

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 04 Oct 2013, 7:11 am

No worries, Greg. I know you weren't fishing for a compliment, but it was one well deserved.

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by barto on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 2:39 pm

Bump

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

Post by barto on Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:08 pm

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/White%20Materials/White%20Assassination%20Clippings%20Folders/Chronology/Chron%20088.pdf

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Re: Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2

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