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Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 15 May 2018, 11:34 am
Ed Ledoux wrote:




When police were called to the Texas Theater the description was of a man sneaking into the theater with a shotgun.
This was broadcast by the Dallas Police Department dispatcher. 
Why else would police descend upon the TT in such force? Dozens of armed cops for a kid sneaking into the balcony? 
So,,,Whom gave Julia Postal this description? Since she claims not to have actually seen the individual whom Brewer asked her about.
Brewer claims he is responsible for that description since he followed the person from down the street. Wouldn't Julia tell police this?
Surely she did not tell them she saw the person, so she had to rely on Brewer for this. Yet where did a shotgun get introduced if not by Postal. 
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:35 am
Ed,




If a charge wasn’t leveled at Oswald for resisting and for attempting murder of McDonald then one must discount the theatrics. 
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:36 am
Ed,


A list of witnesses was not kept, or if made,,, made to vanish, Postal claims 24 tickets sold but only 3 witnesses are interviewed, give statements, or can be found.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:37 am
Ed,


A large group of teens in the balcony are not vocal about their brush with history so are not available to give their details. 
Applin is one, he gives accounts that do not support the story told by police.
Mr. APPLIN. I guess it was Oswald, because -- for one reason, that he had on a short sleeve shirt, and I seen a man's arm that was connected to the gun

Oswald wore a long sleeve shirt.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:39 am
Ed,

Several injured police officers during an arrest usually come with added charges, 
“I started running, and Lyons fell -- he sprained his ankle” – Bob Carroll
“I came over the backs of seats,” twisting his right ankle between two of them” Paul Bentley
self inflicted or not…
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:40 am
Ed,

Skip to the curtain call for the stranger, unidentified stranger.
A man sitting in the front rows (near the front) tips him off that the guy they want is back there.
So then Nick shakes down two other movie patrons, which are not identified, better safe than sorry I guess.
And then finally goes to where a cop killer or president killer, or even a man with a shotgun per the call to police, is seated.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 10:46 am
Mr. HUTSON. We pulled up to this location and I was the first out of the car to hit the ground. As I walked up to the fire exit doors, Officer Hawkins and Baggett were getting out of the car, and the door to the theatre opened, and this unknown white male was exiting.
I drew my pistol and put it on him and told him to put up his hands and not to make a move, and he was real nervous and scared and said: "I am not the one. I just came back to open the door. I work up the street at the shoestore, and Julia sent me back to open the door so you could get in."





Brewer WC testimony

[size=16]Mr. BREWER - I heard a noise outside, and I opened the door, and the alley, I guess it was filled with police cars and policemen were on the fire exits and stacked around the alley, and they grabbed me, a couple of them and held and searched me and asked me what I was doing there, and I told them that there was a guy in the theatre that I was suspicious of, and he asked me if he was still there.

[/size]
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Wed 16 May 2018, 4:37 pm
Mahalo Mick!

Teasing them are you, you devil you.

Mick here is some bio and details of Hoblitzelle 


HOBLITZELLE & INTERSTATE Theater COLLECTION
The Hoblitzelle Interstate theater Circuit Collection, donated to the Harry Ransom Humanities Research Center between approximately 1962 and 1964, is composed of four distinct parts.
I. Interstate Business and Historical Records
This 46-box archive is the core of the Hoblitzelle Interstate theater Circuit Collection. It features scrapbooks dating from 1915-1963 which document Texas motion picture history; ledgers, booking registers, and administrative records from Interstate theater Circuit; vaudeville- and motion picture-era photographs and news clippings; historical materials relating to Karl Hoblitzelle and Interstate theater Circuit, film catalogs and trade papers; theater management materials; theater programs and photographs; and marketing and publicity materials. This collection is fully accessible and may be extensively searched through the on-site Hoblitzelle Interstate theater Circuit Collection database.


http://www.hrc.utexas.edu/collections/film/holdings/interstate/


Interstate began to grow, acquiring other theatres, both fee and leasehold. They also entered into several 50/50 partnership deals, such as that with I. B. Adelman and Will Horowitz in Houston, L. Novy in Austin, and A. Martini in Galveston. Interstate was one of the chief circuits in the state. By the late 1930s there were several other major circuits in Texas besides Interstate and Texas Consolidated. The Jefferson Amusement Company was a chain of Texas theatres also affiliated with Paramount. Robb and Rowley were affiliated with 20th Century Fox, and the Griffith Amusement Company and J. C. Long were larger unaffiliated circuits.
Independent theatre operators complained that the larger circuits were using their ties to choke out any competition. The larger circuits had distinct territories and rarely encroached upon one another. Independents who had theatres in such territories claimed that it was difficult to contract for good pictures, and that the chains conspired to force the independent theatres to wait an undesirable length of time before allowing them to show particular films. This siphoned off most of the audience and reduced the profits of the independents, who claimed the chains were trying to force them out of business by unfair competition.
The federal government in 1938 instigated antitrust litigation against several major film companies; one of the first attacked was Paramount. After years in court, in February 1949 Paramount entered into a Consent Judgment with the Department of Justice whereby Paramount's domestic exhibition business was completely divorced from its production and distribution business. Paramount was given three years to dissolve all its joint interests with local theatres. It split into two new corporations, Paramount Pictures Inc. which produced and distributed films, and United Paramount Pictures which exhibited films. Hoblitzelle's stock was sold to United Paramount; Interstate remained affiliated with Paramount and reported to New York. In February 1953 the Federal Communications Commission allowed the merger of United Paramount Theatres with the American Broadcasting Company. Interstate was a subsidiary of the new corporation formed, American Broadcasting-Paramount Theatres (AB-PT). In July, 1965 this corporation changed its name to American Broadcasting Companies, Inc. By 1967 ABC's motion picture exhibition operations, of which Interstate was a part, were the largest of their kind in the United States.
Despite the connections with a national firm headquartered in New York, Hoblitzelle remained active and influential as president of Interstate until his death in 1967. Leadership in the company passed to other men who had been with Interstate since its early days: R. J. O'Donnell, Raymond Willie, John Q. Adams, and W. E. Mitchell. It was not uncommon for a company officer to have begun as a theatre usher and then to have moved through the ranks to the top. This remarkable longevity of top-level staff accounts for the intense personal loyalties which characterized the Interstate operations. 




The Rosewin was closed for five months in 1939, updated by R&R for $40,000 including a refresh of the exterior, new pitched floor, higher roof, and new decorations. The new count of the seats went from 991 to 825. The first feature was “Sprit of Culver.” The higher roofline likely extended the theater’s life because in 1953, the Rosewin became part of the widescreen movement getting a variable aspect screen to project 1.85:1 and 1.66:1. In 1955, CinemaScope equipment was added to the Rosewin. After 41 years, Rowley United dropped the Rosewin in early November 1963 closing with “That Touch of Mink” and “Young Guns of Texas.”[/size]
Under independent operation, the The Rosewin became the Rex Cinema in 1964. This was Dallas’ second Rex Theater with a silent era theater that did business from 1920-1927 in two different locations. The first was at 1510 Elm (owners: 1916-1920 Leon S. Gohlman and 1920-4 R.J. Littlefield). The second address was 1711 Live Oak (owners: 1924-5 Rex Amusement Co. and 1925-7 I. Wyll). The former Rosewin then Rex opened on March 6, 1964 with new sound, seats and decorations opening as an art house with the film, “The Cardinal.” The art concept was tried for two years but the theater mixed in some adult X-rated films and the audiences came. As a result, the art film policy changed to adult films and while extending the life of the theater, trouble soon followed.

http://cinematreasures.org/theaters/14684

Cheers, Ed


Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 29 May 2018, 3:25 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Thu 17 May 2018, 10:08 am
Greg asked me so I'll share.
The report of a man with a shotgun came from Ron Reiland who was at scene of Tippit murder.
Pay close attention to video at 1:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?lc=6QTFc3g-rj45z4z8jeX5o61VFCB4WT5tE2_hHJnVqDU&v=3yO-ko-gDDo

Greg wisely pointed out that a man 5' 2" tried to enter and 'help' detain the suspect,



But this minute citizen held a shotgun as big as he was,
and not over his arm,
he was asked by Bob Barrett to watch the door and let no one leave, Bob called no one about or told anyone about this man, Bob just ran inside. When Bob came out he didnt talk to the man and tell him to desist.
Add that this man did not enter, Bob stopped him outside... cant be the report.
Bob Barrett cant be thee source, as Bob was at Tippet murder scene...examined wallet.etc where also is Ron Reiland whom heard this report at that scene and they all went to the TT.
It would take longer for a non radio transmission to go from TT to Tenth n Patton, so there too is a problem for dispelling Reiland. Timing.
Keep looking!!

Cheers, Ed

ps, it was already a chaotic scene outside when Barrett arrives...hmmmm
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Thu 17 May 2018, 12:14 pm
Yep, Reiland is a loose cannon, or a finely calibrated instrument, hard to tell which it is. In any case his stuff doesn't add up. 

It's a major difference between everyone breaking from Tippit to the TT on a report of a suspect with a shotgun and everybody already being there when a vigilante shows up with the shotgun.

Maybe he just couldn't bring himself to say they all broke on a report of a man sneaking past a ticket booth. 

The TT certainly is fertile ground for finding f*** ups. Must be why they pared the facts back to bare bones, with a few of the bones missing.


Last edited by Jake Sykes on Wed 23 May 2018, 8:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Thu 17 May 2018, 2:18 pm
Thanks Jake, I just think of Gary Mack either making excuses for or against Ron's reporting that day when it suited him... is Ron a Roger Craig, marginalized for not telling 'their story' and what he saw.
Maybe, Ron should have been asked??
Can we find if he was, about that bit.
Keep searching if we find corroboration then its all the harder to dispell this.

PS, even David Von Pein had this to add:

"There's also another very funny mistake made by Ron Reiland when he was narrating his film on WFAA when Reiland said that the man who
was suspected of killing Officer Tippit had run into the Texas Theater
"with a shotgun over his arm". (There were reports on other networks that mentioned the erroneous fact about the suspect having a "shotgun" in the theater, too.)"


So rather than multiple errors, as Pein claims, about the same shotgun toting man, it seems correlative.
This means its not Ron but a conspiracy of errors according to Pein.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Thu 17 May 2018, 2:23 pm
Add that Pein mentions it was later that day when finally Reiland narrated this... oops this doesnt help Von Pein's claim at all!!!
Cheers, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sat 19 May 2018, 8:20 am
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Greg asked me so I'll share.
The report of a man with a shotgun came from Ron Reiland who was at scene of Tippit murder.
Pay close attention to video at 1:11

https://www.youtube.com/watch?lc=6QTFc3g-rj45z4z8jeX5o61VFCB4WT5tE2_hHJnVqDU&v=3yO-ko-gDDo

Greg wisely pointed out that a man 5' 2" tried to enter and 'help' detain the suspect,



But this minute citizen held a shotgun as big as he was,
and not over his arm,
he was asked by Bob Barrett to watch the door and let no one leave, Bob called no one about or told anyone about this man, Bob just ran inside. When Bob came out he didnt talk to the man and tell him to desist.
Add that this man did not enter, Bob stopped him outside... cant be the report.
Bob Barrett cant be thee source, as Bob was at Tippet murder scene...examined wallet.etc where also is Ron Reiland whom heard this report at that scene and they all went to the TT.
It would take longer for a non radio transmission to go from TT to Tenth n Patton, so there too is a problem for dispelling Reiland. Timing.
Keep looking!!

Cheers, Ed

ps, it was already a chaotic scene outside when Barrett arrives...hmmmm
FEK!

Great stuff Ed,

Ill keep looking  Cool
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sat 19 May 2018, 1:47 pm
So to discount Von Pein, live tv on ABC carried the account of man with shotgun over shoulder walking into theater.
Sounds like corroborating evidence.

"Finally, what made several officers go to a movie theater to arrest Oswald? According to a Miami CBS interview with Officer Tippit’s partner, R.C. Nelson, said:

“Oswald shot Tippit on 10th Street in Dallas and Nelson and several others went to a library a block away…’While we were preparing to go into the library, we heard someone had gone into the Texas (movie) theater without paying,’ Nelson said. ‘It was about three blocks away and we converged on the Texas theater.’”

http://miami.cbslocal.com/2013/11/20/exclusive-jfk-assassination-witness-speaks-for-1st-time/

Why would the fact that someone didn’t pay at this theater distract the officers from entering the library? Perhaps there’s a good reason, but it is rather odd. In addition, the local ABC News live coverage of the event said that there were reports that an armed man (shotgun over his shoulder) walked into a movie theater, and judging from the food and trash items found at the theater, he had been there a while, perhaps overnight, which would conflict with Oswald being at work, shooting JFK (as we noted elsewhere in this article, showing that Oswald did not have enough time to leave the scene of the assassination and then kill Tippit and then walk into a theater with a rifle over his shoulder). We included this note as a sideline to the main narrative and not as anything conclusive or definitive, other than to note how unusual this is for a police response. "

Yes unusual response while rousting a cop killer in the library. Cheers, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 21 May 2018, 9:56 am
“Oswald shot Tippit on 10th Street in Dallas and Nelson and several others went to a library a block away…’While we were preparing to go into the library, we heard someone had gone into the Texas (movie) theater without paying,’ Nelson said. ‘It was about three blocks away and we converged on the Texas theater.’”


Spot on Ed,


And, I would add there was zero chance of the officer's leaving a scene (Library) where a suspected cop killer was lurking to attend a theatre where citizen has entered without paying for a ticket.


No somebody, whomever it was who made the call/s into the the DPD about the theatre and an armed man made sure that dispatch knew how urgent it was to get there. And with an army of cops with firepower. IMHO
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 21 May 2018, 11:11 am
What did Postal tell the DPD? surely not a man entered the theatre without paying...suspicious? suspicious of what? Some one phoned through about the armed man in the theatre, no?
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 21 May 2018, 2:36 pm
This from Buddy Walthers:


At this time Deputy Allen Sweatt told me that a police officer had been killed in Oak Cliff area somewhere on Jefferson Street. I immediately left the office with Deputies J. F. Ramsey and Deputy Frank Vrla and ran Code 3 to oak Cliff. I received information by radio that there was a suspect


in the Dallas Public Library located at Marsalis and Jefferson. Upon arriving at this location, we were met by a number of other police officers and we surrounded the library. It was then determined that the person inside the library was the wrong person. Upon getting back into our automobile, we started towards 10th Street, where the police officer had been killed in an effort to obtain further information and then received radio information from Deputy Sheriff Bill Courson, who was also in the Oak Cliff area, that the subject was in the balcony of the Texas Theatre on West Jefferson. We arrived at this location within a few seconds and were met by many other officers. Upon proceeding to the balcony of the theatre, I ordered the manager to turn on the house lights. Some unknown officer was holding a white man at the steps of the balcony and I proceeded on into the balcony. I looked over the balcony and saw a commotion in the center section, near the back, in the downstairs of the theatre, and I hollered to other officers, "He's Downstairs"., and we all ran down the steps and to the area of the commotion. When I reached the area of commotion, it was hard to tell "Who had Who" as there were so many officers into a melee on the floor between the seats, but I saw Officer Carroll of the Dallas Police Department standing on the other side of the melee of people and I could see a gun on the floor with 2 or 3 hands on it and I reached into this melee and pulled up on the people and I believe it was Officer Carrol who reached down and got this gun. I am not positive it was Officer Carroll, but I believe it was, however, there was such a swarm of officers at this time, it was hard to determine. 4 or 5 officers then began carrying subject towards the front of the theatre and I picked up my shotgun which I had laid down in some seats away from the melee...


Allan Sweatt report:
"...
At approximately 1:30 PM, I received word that a Police Officer had been shot on Jefferson Street in Oak Cliff and the suspect was supposedly at large in that area. I immediately dispatched Officer's Buddy Walthers, James Ramsey, an Frank Vrla to the scene of the shooting. Officer Bill Courson of the Sheriff's Office joined with them in Oak Cliff. Apprehension was made of the suspect in the Texas Theatre and suspect was turned over to the Dallas Police Department...."


However, former Dallas deputy Sheriff Bill Courson told Larry Sneed that Walthers arrived at the Theater after Oswald was arrested (Sneed, No More Silence, page 486).

From Warren Commission counsel Wesley Jim Liebeler:
"
Oswald, Tippit, and the Missing 30 Minutes
At first I was surprised to learn that Johnny Calvin Brewer knew that a patrolman had been shot when Oswald walked by his place of business, less than eight blocks from the point of the Tippit killing which Oswald apparently left as fast as he could.
2. Then I was surprised to learn that the police radio did not send out information about the suspect being in the Texas Theater until 1:45, about 30 minutes after the police first learned of the Tippit killing from Benavides over Tippit's radio. What were Oswald and Brewer doing during this 30 minutes? Oswald was strangely inactive during this period, considering all that he had done the 45 minutes following the assassination. (11 HSCA 229; 9/6/64 memo)"

About the broadcast in record,
"We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson."

Suspect to what, sneaking in... please spare us...
More theatrics.
Cheers, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 21 May 2018, 10:49 pm
Brewer's, partial, oral history at the 6FM
http://emuseum.jfk.org/view/objects/asitem/classification@Oral%20Histories/89/title-asc?t:state:flow=777c68a7-c2e4-49b9-9573-571a2edb2fc2

"I recognised him in some sort of way....." How the fk did you do that Johnny?
Later 
"I locked up the doors to the store....." What and you kicked those IBM guys out?

"I did not see the guy, but thought something was wrong so went back to Julia and told her to call the cops" ha ha ha ha 

You cannot make this shit up, well Johnny did.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 10:42 am
I had a similar experience once while following an invisible rabbit. He went in a theater right by the ticket seller. I asked her if she saw the rabbit and she said "No, I was just out here watching the world go by. No rabbits." I went on in and asked the concession guy if he saw the invisible rabbit and he said. "No". He was bent over stacking concessions. (I said that. He didn't.) Then I walked in the balcony. Nobody there. No rabbit. Nothing. Then I walked around the theater and still no rabbit. Now I'm getting concerned and took a look at the exits. Nope. How I could have known if the rabbit exited I'll never know but, no gone bunny so now I'm really concerned. Something is definitely wrong. 
With me.    

albino     affraid     albino

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 10:47 am
Thanks Ed, and Bart.

So they went from surrounding a library in Oak Cliff with a suspect inside - and determined that they had the wrong person - (by whom and where did this come from)

And, that they all lept in their cars post-haste from that scene for a suspect who had entered the Texas Theatre. (for not buying a ticket) Right?

So who made the call into the DPD (Not talking about Postal) and said there's a guy in the theatre up to no good.
Not talking about "ducking" in either - not talking about sneaking in without purchasing a ticket too,

I'm talking about the person or person's phone call/radio call to let the DPD know to dispatch every available unit armed to the hilt in the Oak Cliff area to race to the theatre pronto because "our man" is in there and probably armed. Now you may call that speculative, but I'm tipping that this call was made otherwise we have to go with the bullshit Oswald ducked in there story....without buying a ticket.

spare us all.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 10:55 am
Just saying,

citizen/cop made that call. Not Postal. Not Brewer. Person unknown.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 11:02 am
Yes Mick. My speculation based on your keen observation would be that the whole Brewer thing is made up to cover for that call, which had no possible justification in and of itself, except that the caller knew Oswald was in the theater, so we got the Brewer thing.

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 1:04 pm
Jake Sykes wrote:Yes Mick. My speculation based on your keen observation would be that the whole Brewer thing is made up to cover for that call, which had no possible justification in and of itself, except that the caller knew Oswald was in the theater, so we got the Brewer thing.

Exactly Jake,

Not having a bar of the Brewer / Postal stuff, smoke and mirrors!

And so who knew that Oswald was in that theatre.....?

Not many names to fling about here is there....
Truly? Ruth? Michael? Frazier? Linnie Mae, Shelley,?
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 1:40 pm
So who did make that call-in to the DPD. You know-the one which triggered a tsunami of cops and firepower onto the Texas Theatre



Credit Bart Kamp: Nick McDonald Thread


Last edited by Mick Purdy on Wed 23 May 2018, 12:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 22 May 2018, 2:14 pm
Bloody hell Mick, that story of the anonymous source is darn near exactly what MN 'Nick' McDonald said in his article... Sorry Jake, was poor Brewer lost in the shuffle or shoe horned into it.
Cheers, Ed
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