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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 6:15 am
Brewer and about same view he had in 63.
(Opposite angle, and box office is now further back)
But still shows how Brewer distorts the scene and could not see Postal from sidewalk.



Postal asked for center door to be kept opened.







Cheers Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 6:52 am
Ed, this reads awfully like Truly and Baker spotting Lee in the lunchroom. It worked once so why not try it again...
Callahan still bothers me. Which police cars did he follow.
Did he turn up at the Tippit scene......nope.
Did he end up back at the TT and think "This place looks familiar"....nope.
Is he still, this very day, following police cars around Oak Cliff wondering what's going on.

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You ain't gonna know what you learn if you knew it....... confused


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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 8:55 am
Bart and Ed, thanks for the fantastic pics.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 8:57 am
steely dan wrote:Ed, this reads awfully like Truly and Baker spotting Lee in the lunchroom. It worked once so why not try it again...
Callahan still bothers me. Which police cars did he follow.
Did he turn up at the Tippit scene......nope.
Did he end up back at the TT and think "This place looks familiar"....nope.
Is he still, this very day, following police cars around Oak Cliff wondering what's going on.
Doesn't it though.

Brewer may have had someone in his store for sure but was it Lee Oswald?
Callahan bothers me too Steely
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 9:38 am
Steve Thomas wrote:




Mr. BALL. And after you saw the police car go west with its siren on, why at the time the police car went west with its siren on, did you see the man that ducked? This man that you were---- 
Mrs. POSTAL. This man, yes; he ducked into the box office... 

a) you can't see the box office door from the street.
b) she allowed someone to duck into the box office where the money was kept, and didn't do anything about it.



Precisely Steve. Fantasy!
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 10:12 am
Johnny Brewer's 1964 Warren Commission testimony:

Mr. BELIN - Then what did you see? 
Mr. BREWER - Well, I saw this policeman approach Oswald, and Oswald stood up and I heard some hollering. I don't know exactly what he said, and this man hit Patrolman McDonald. 
Mr. BELIN - You say this man hit Patrolman McDonald. Did you know it was Patrolman McDonald? 
Mr. BREWER - I didn't know his name, but I had seen him quite a few times around Oak Cliff. But I didn't know his name. 
Mr. BELIN - Then you later found out this was Patrolman McDonald? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 10:30 am
Mr. BREWER - Not anything in particular. He was just standing there staring. 
Mr. BELIN - Well, would you state then what happened? You said that you saw him walk into the Texas Theatre? 
Mr. BREWER - He walked into the Texas Theatre and I walked up to the theatre, to the box office and asked Mrs. Postal if she sold a ticket to a man who was wearing a brown shirt, and she said no, she hadn't. She was listening to the radio herself. And I said that a man walked in there, and I was going to go inside and ask the usher if he had seen him.



As Ed has pointed out this sentence from Brewer is extremely important.
The box office is recessed. From Brewer's perspective following up the street, he would not have seen the purchase of a ticket or not.


Why would Brewer even ask about the purchase of the ticket?


The answer to his question to Postal makes it clear she didn't sell a ticket and most likely did not see anybody enter the theatre at that time.















Mr. BELIN - If he had purchased a ticket, would you have seen him purchasing the ticket from where you were standing or walking? 
Mr. BREWER - I could have seen him, yes; standing in front of the box office. 


Really:




Mr. BELIN - You stood in front of your store as he walked into the theatre? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes.



Cuts both ways! If Brewer believes he would have seen him purchase a ticket then he would've seen him not doing so also.
I believe Brewer could not see Postal from his perspective of the street. The Box office was not quite flush with the street level building facade.






Mr. BELIN - Then did you know when you saw him walk in and when you walked up to Julia Postal that he had not bought a ticket? 
Mr. BREWER - I knew that he hadn't. 
Mr. BELIN - Why did you ask Julia Postal whether he had or hadn't? 
Mr. BREWER - I don't know. 

Mr. BELIN - You just asked her? 







Any of this sound familiar,






Mr. BELIN - Where were you when you first saw him? 
Mr. BREWER - I was behind the counter there by the hose bar. 
Mr. BELIN - About how far were you from the front door? 
Mr. BREWER - Ten feet. 
Mr. BELIN - Could you see through there to get a good view? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes; the doors are solid glass. 
Mr. BELIN - Then you saw this man leave? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes. 
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do? 
Mr. BREWER - I went out the front door and stood in front of the store and watched him. 
Mr. BELIN - You stood in front of the door? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes. 

Mr. BELIN - Where was he walking when you first saw him? As you got out in front of your store? 
Mr. BREWER - He was, I would say, he was in front of the furniture store. What is the name of that? 
Mr. BELIN - Would that be Thompson's Furniture Store? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes. 
Mr. BELIN - Did you know----notice how fast this man was walking? 
Mr. BREWER - Just a little faster than usual. 

Mr. BELIN - Faster than usual walk? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes. 
Mr. BELIN - Then about how far were you behind him? 
Mr. BREWER - Well, I stood there until he walked into the theatre. I don't really know what I was thinking about. 
Mr. BELIN - You stood in front of your store as he walked into the theatre? 
Mr. BREWER - Yes. 

Mr. BELIN - About how far is the entrance of the theatre from your store? 
Mr. BREWER - I would say 50 or 60 feet----yards. 
Mr. BELIN - Then after you saw him turn into the theatre, what did you do? 
Mr. BREWER - Than I walked toward the theatre. 
Mr. BELIN - At an average pace, or above average? 
Mr. BREWER - I don't know. 

Mr. BELIN - You don't remember? About how long after you got to the theatre did the police come in, if you can remember? 
Mr. BREWER - I don't remember that either. 
Mr. BELIN - Do you remember about what time it was when the police came in? 
Mr. BREWER - No. 



It should sound familiar, it's very similar to Frazier's version of watching Lee Oswald walking into the TSBD rear entrance Friday morning
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 12:06 pm
If Johnny Brewer’s testimony is to be believed, Oswald entered the theatre at approximately 1:30 pm. However, as I discussed above, I don’t believe Brewer actually saw Oswald. The main reason I don’t believe Brewer (and Julia Postal for that matter) is the fact that it took the DPD until the 6th of December to obtain an affidavit from him!
Lone gunman zealots have tried to explain this away by claiming, get this, the DPD were too busy. Well busy with what for god’s sake? Oswald was the man they not only charged for killing one of their fellow officers, but they charged him for murdering the President. The only logical explanation, in my opinion, is that the DPD needed time to set Brewer’s and Postal’s stories straight.
Jim Douglass, author of the seminal book, JFK and the unspeakable, tracked down Warren “Butch” Burroughs – who was working behind the concession stand on inside the Theatre, on the day of the assassination. According to Douglass, Burroughs claimed he saw Oswald enter the theatre between 1:00 pm and 1:07 pm. He also claimed he sold Oswald pop-corn at 1:15 pm – the “official” time of Officer Tippit’s murder!
Given the interview took place decades following the assassination, I honestly wouldn’t give it a substantial amount of weight. It’s also important to note that TheatrePatron, Jack Davis, observed Oswald enter the theatre prior to 1:20 pm. Not surprisingly, Davis was not called to testify before the Warren commission.

Source:
http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com.au/2012/10/oswalds-escape-from-tsbd.html
Hasan Yusuf
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 12:08 pm
Hasan wrote:




For those who are unaware, during an interview with author Ian Griggs in 1996, Johnny Calvin Brewer claimed that on the day of the assassination (when he allegedly observed Oswald duck into the lobby of his shoe store) there were two men from IBM in the store with him:


https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=16235&search=two_men+from+IBM+JCB#relPageId=9&tab=page

Brewer also indicated to the Warren Commission that there were others with him in the store:


Mr. BELIN - I want to take you back to November 22, 1963. This was the day that President Kennedy was assassinated. How did you find out about the assassination, Mr. Brewer


Mr. BREWER - We were listening to a transistor radio there in the store, just listening to a regular radio program, and they broke in with the bulletin that the President had been shot. And from then, that is all there was. We listened to all of the events.


As far as I am aware, neither one of these men ever came forward to identify themselves. It has long been my suspicion that their purpose in the store was to somehow get Brewer to call the DPD down to the Theater to ensure Oswald was arrested and framed for Tippit’s murder. So who were these men? Lee Farley once made a very good case for one of the IBM men being the mysterious and suspicious Igor Vaganov. See the following for info on Vaganov:


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?s=9f766cc368bcb5bc5207176e20d1061a&showtopic=7312&page=1

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=118224&search=International_trouble+shooter+IBM#relPageId=51&tab=page
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 12:26 pm
According to Jim Douglass, Burroughs claimed he saw Oswald enter the theatre between 1:00 pm and 1:07 pm


and


Jack Davis, observed Oswald enter the [b]theatre prior to 1:20 pm.
[/b]



this is more than possible:


If Kaminsky and Truly had sent Lee Oswald on his way from the TSBD at about 12.45 - 12.50pm then it's likely the timeline from Burroughs and Davis regarding Lee Oswald  being inside the theatre between 1.05pm and 1.16pm could be reasonably accurate





approx 3 miles - 9-12 minutes by car.

This would have placed Oswald in the theatre anywhere between 1.00pm and 1.10pm in my view.

This scenario would also most certainly rule out Brewer's claims of seeing Oswald in the Hardy shoe store and watching him enter the theatre
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 3:19 pm
1:44Dispatcher10-4. 1:44.550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill)No, that wasn't the right one. (1:44 p.m.)
 392. . . available for assignment.DispatcherAnybody at Elm and Houston?
 Dispatcher10-4.297 (Three-wheel motorcycle, operator unknown)10-4.
  (Tape splice)Dispatcher297, contact 9 and notify him they are holding up a north-bound freight train there in the yard and they want to shake it down before they let it go. Do you want to send some officers over there to shake it down?
 87 (Ptm. R.C. Nelson)87. What was the last location anybody had on that suspect out here in Oak Cliff?297 (three-wheel motorcycle, operator unknown)10-4.
 DispatcherRunning north on Patton.551 (Sergeant H.H. Stringer)The jacket the suspect was wearing over here on Jefferson bears a laundry tag with the letter B 9738. See if there is any way you can check this laundry tag.
 222 (Ptm. V.R. Nolan)222 clear.138 (Patrolman D.L. Jackson)We need a Justice of the Peace at Parkland Hospital, Code 3.
 Dispatcher222 clear.Dispatcher10-4.
 232/2 (Ptm. A.E. Garrison)232/2. (Garbled)
 DispatcherCar 2.550/2 (Sergeant Gerald L. Hill)Advise someone to get in the alley and behind that building at the fire escape.
 232/2I just run an emergency escort out here to Love Field. I'm clear now.Dispatcher5, an aide to the Vice President by the name of Minesport will arrive at Southwest Airmotive at 2:05 and will you also advise Secret Service.
 Dispatcher10-4.5 (Deputy Chief George L. Lumpkin)All right.
 252 (Ptm. F.T. Chance)252.39 (In sergeant's car)39 a half.
 Dispatcher252.DispatcherGo ahead.
 252Would you check though Austin on H (Henry) S (Sam) 1877 and get registration on it, please? The car is parked out here at this shooting which took place regarding the President.3939 is in front of me stationed right across the airstrip from me right in front of Southwest Airmotive. What have you got? (Garbled)
 65 (Ptm. W.A. Everett)65 clear.  
 252 (Ptm. F.T. Chance)252.  
 Dispatcher19.  
 252252.  
 Dispatcher19.  
 Dispatcher252.  
 252Did you receive the license number?  
 DispatcherNo, give it to us again.  
 252H (Henry) S (Sam) 1877, Texas 1963.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 79 (Ptm. B.N. Arglin)79.  
 Dispatcher79.  
 79 (Ptm. B.N. Arglin)I'm here at 19's location. Any message for him?  
 Dispatcher10-4. We have information that a suspect just went in the Texas Theater on West Jefferson.  
 7910-4.  
 DispatcherSupposed to be hiding in the balcony.  
 7910-4.  
 85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker)85 out that way.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 65 (Ptm. W.A. Everett)65 clear.  
1:46Dispatcher65 clear. 1:46.  
 111 (Ptm. J.G. Pollard)111 en route.  
 Dispatcher10-4. 111.  
 76 (Ptm. H.H. Horn)76, Code 5.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 9 (Insp. J.H. Sawyer)9.  
 Dispatcher9.  
 9 (Insp. J.H. Sawyer)9. We have a man we would like to have you pass this up on to the CID to see if we can pick this man up. Charles Douglas Givens, G-I-V-E-N-S. He's a colored male, thirty-seven, six foot three, a hundred sixty-five pounds. He has an ID number in the Sheriff's Department, 37954. He's a porter that worked on this floor up here. He has a police record and he left.  
 492 (CID)492, out Texas Theater.  
 Dispatcher10-4, 9.  
 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill)550/2.  
 Dispatcher550/2.  
 550/2Do you have any additional information on this Oak Cliff suspect?  
 492 (CID)492, out Texas Theater.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 DispatcherThey think he is at Texas Theater, 550/2.  
 508 (Crime Lab/ W.E. Barnes)508.  
  . . . meet (?)  
 Dispatcher85 at Texas Theater, 550/2.  
 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill)10-4.  
 DispatcherIn the balcony.  
 Dispatcher241.  
 241 (Ptm. J.P. Hollingsworth)Go ahead.  
 DispatcherDid you make that pickup at the Sheraton?  
 241No, I couldn't find him. He's not at the front; he's not on the side; and he's not on the third floor.  
 Dispatcher. . . work right there (?).  
 108 (unknown)108.  
 Dispatcher108.  
 108I brought him out here myself. I'm at Parkland. Going back to the communications center.  
 Dispatcher10-4. 241, you're clear.  
 508 (Crime Lab/ W.E. Barnes)508.  
 Dispatcher508.  
 508Notify our office to send us more slides and I need additional . . . bulb crack . . . metallic kits, extra metallic kits. Bring to the sixth floor down here at Houston and Elm.  
 DispatcherAn additional metallic -- what was that?  
 508Metallic kit.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 Dispatcher. . . en route to Texas Theater. Have someone cover off the rear of the theater at the fire escape.  
 211 (Ptm. R. Hawkins)211.  
 99 (Ptm. S.E. Norman)99.  
 Dispatcher211.  
 211 (Ptm. R. Hawkins)211. There's about five squads back here with me now.  
1:48Dispatcher10-4. 1:48.  
 Dispatcher48 (?). For your information 757 Parkhurst. 1:48.  
 48 (?) (Ptm. A.D. Duncan)757 Parkhurst?  
 DispatcherYes.  
 99 (Ptm. S.E. Norman)99.  
 Dispatcher99.  
 99I'm in my car. Where do you want me to go?  
 26 (Ptm. G.W. Hammond)26.  
 DispatcherStandby, 99.  
 Dispatcher15.  
 15 (Capt. C.E. Talbert)15.  
 DispatcherDo you want 99?  
 15No, send him to the Texas Theater, if they don't need him down at the book bindery.  
 DispatcherTexas Theater on West Jefferson, 99.  
 29 (Ptm. J.M. Williams)29.  
 Dispatcher29.  
 29About two blocks away.  
 Dispatcher10-4. Handle assignment.  
 Dispatcher99, report to the book depository at Elm and Houston.  
 99 (Ptm. S.E. Norman)10-4.  
 397 (CID)397.  
 19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens)19.  
 Dispatcher19.  
 1915 and some squads are going to the Texas Theater. I remain here at the scene.  
 Dispatcher10-4.  
 Dispatcher41.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 3:46 pm
Can't help but draw comparisons between Frazier and Randle's story with Brewer and Postal's and theirs with Truly and Baker's take on things. 

It's hard not to. 

Brewer's story does not add up. 

He and Postal are the only two people who claimed they saw a man (Oswald) enter the theatre without paying. This claim came near on two weeks after the fact.

It is Brewer who planted the idea in Postals head about a man sneaking into the theatre without paying. It is Brewer in his civic duty showing officers through the building through the rear alley entrance to the theater. It is Brewer who later claimed that Oswald stood in his shoe shop crazed and staring at him avoiding the passing police cars. And it is Brewer who to this day proudly displays souvenirs and memento's of his heroic efforts that day.


Last edited by Mick Purdy on Sun 27 May 2018, 4:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 4:09 pm
EXACTLY STEELY! Truly/Baker.

Did Callahan drive off West, as that seems to be where Postal's attention was 'drawn'... earth calling Callahan.
If it was at 1:05 then he's chasing ambulances, and going East.
At 1:30, fifteen minutes after the supposed radio calls by citizens, cops would still be arriving? From West of Downtown? Really.
Brewer has cop cars turning around before ever coming near the store! Who would "need" to duck dodge or hide from a non-threat, only Brewer's man.
So much of this is reversed TSBD stuff.
We have Lee leaving the Texas School Book Depository and no one sees this, and there is Lee entering the theater and no one sees him.
Then these similarities and coincidences in the stories of Postal/Brewer vs Linnie/Wesley... forget about it ;-)

Mick you've got it!
Absolutely, why ask about a ticket?!?!
Seeing a man ducking in, supposedly seeing him pass by the box office without hesitation.
Seeing this Brewer asks Postal if that man just purchased a ticket? K.

What radio.station was it that Postal was listening to that she hears less information than Brewer, despite Brewer having left the store. Did he take his transistor radio with him to get updates on the suspect?
As Postal claimed to WC that she only knew of the President being murdered, not about Tippit.
She phones police and mentions nothing about a Cop Killer, no she is in time zone A where only possibilities have early timings and involve JFK.
Brewer was in time zone B where everything was later, and invovled Tippit.
Mind bending.

Butch Burroughs tried to say they were wrong and gets shat on for being PRECISE.
Brewer cant recall squat and gets awards.
A fn travesty.
There are much more bits, but for another post.
Cheers All, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 4:26 pm
Ed, exactly


What radio.station was it that Postal was listening to that she hears less information than Brewer, despite Brewer having left the store. Did he take his transistor radio with him to get updates on the suspect?
As Postal claimed to WC that she only knew of the President being murdered, not about Tippit.
She phones police and mentions nothing about a Cop Killer, no she is in time zone A where only possibilities have early timings and involve JFK.



It's all shite.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Sun 27 May 2018, 5:14 pm
It's more than possible Brewer saw nobody.
Other's have made a very good case for Brewer not being alone in the shoe shop at the time he claimed to see Oswald.

The "We" in his WC testimony surely implies there were others present in the store whilst listening to the radio for news of the assassination.

His colleague was off sick according to news reports.

As Ed has said, to follow Oswald......Did he close up shop? No!
It was that urgent he left the store unattended? Yes!
Why, because someone walked out of his shop up the street and entered a theatre.

Brewer is just another in a long list of candidates who would have spent a very long time in the witness box under cross examination had Oswald lived to have his day in court
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 28 May 2018, 8:45 am
Brewer's view from sidewalk. Testimony impugned.



The other two alley exits, via fire escape.



Cheers, Ed

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Mon 28 May 2018, 11:02 pm
Brewers store has been replaced with another store named Liz Bridal.

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 3:34 am
Scene outside theater.



Now with all these folks in the general area you'd expect a few more 5'9" or 5'10" 150 pound suspects.
Was no one else on the street till this excitement and everyone ducked out...so how many of these folks fit the description and recently ducked into a store... looks like dozens.
Cheers, Ed

Vinny thanks for the pic, easy to spot the red awning in other recent pics and judge distance, views, etc.

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 5:43 am


The view to the TT from 213 W. Jefferson, almost 200 feet!

You cant see in the dark area under the triangular marque.
The box office is not visible.
Only on closer approach can one see into the recessed entry and only then can one see the box office. Note the sign, and its visibility from a distance





Cheers, Ed


Last edited by Ed. Ledoux on Tue 29 May 2018, 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 5:46 am
Ed. Ledoux wrote:Scene outside theater.



Now with all these folks in the general area you'd expect a few more 5'9" or 5'10" 150 pound suspects.
Was no one else on the street till this excitement and everyone ducked out...so how many of these folks fit the description and recently ducked into a store... looks like dozens.
Cheers, Ed

Vinny thanks for the pic, easy to spot the red awning in other recent pics and judge distance, views, etc.


From a 2016 article:
 
"A century ago, American men ranked as the third tallest in the world, standing at 171 centimeters (5 feet 7 inches). Now, they place as the 37th, with an average of 177 centimeters (5 feet 10 inches)."
https://www.cnn.com/2016/07/26/health/human-height-changes-century/index.html
 
If we interpolate:
1916 (5 feet 7 inches)
1966 (5 feet 8 1/2 inches)
2016 (5 feet 10 inches)
 
So, right around 1963, the average height of a US male was between 5'8''-5'9''. This means most of the men would be centered around this mean. This supports Ed's contention that you'd see tons of people who would fit this description. And you see that in the image above.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 7:50 am
Thanks Stan, thats about the size of it.
A one size fits all suspect description.
Who knew shedding a jacket slims a man by 15 pounds? And it was a lightweight jacket to boot
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 8:08 am
Front row looks empty.

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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 8:51 am


This is perfect Ed,
Many thanks.

We can see from your remarkable screen shots of the 63' era of the street and the theatre booth and sign that the booth was indeed recessed

And this magnificent pic shows us that if Brewer did exactly as he claimed - waited at his store entrance until the man had gone into the theatre- then his testimony is indeed impugned.
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 1:54 pm
View from inside Hardy's



Zangs intersection is not visible, not from inside that store.

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Texas Theatre Theatrics

on Tue 29 May 2018, 2:17 pm




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