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Jack Edwin Dougherty

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Colonel Von Hello on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 8:40 pm

Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans.  The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by greg parker on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:49 pm

Lee Farley wrote:Included in the Warren de Brueys report of December 2, 1963, is a list of travelers to Mexico & Latin America in September 1963 departing by air from New Orleans.  The FBI were searching passenger lists to ascertain whether Lee Harvey Oswald was onboard any flights that departed NOLA to Mexico City on or about September 17, 18, or 19.

The lists are contained CD75 pages 600-615.

On pages 604-606 is a manifest of names from Eastern Airlines daily 7:55am flight to Mexico City.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=608

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=10477&relPageId=610

On the September 18 list is a James E. Dougherty Jr. who I am mildly interested in.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Colonel Von Hello on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 9:58 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Tom Scully wrote:Stan,

An "A" to you for effort. Dougherty told the WC he "left" high school in 1937, but he did not
say he graduated/ He also stated was 40 years of age on that date in 1964. He would have
been 14 years old in a 1937 yearbook if he was presented as a member of the senior class.

Page 4 of the thread, started by Greg, probably includes all the highlights of Dougherty's background. He and his parents share a gravestone and it displays his birth year as 1923.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18068&page=4 This inforrmation is also available at findagrave.com .
Thanks for the calibration Tom.
 
Checking the links you provided, I see that Jack's father was Redfern C. Dougherty. That name rang a bell, so I went back to the 1937 Yearbook and I found a Redfern C. Dougherty Jr. listed on the very next page. Wouldn't be surprised if this was Jack's older brother.


Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?


Last edited by Lee Farley on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:10 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Colonel Von Hello on Wed 06 Nov 2013, 10:07 pm

http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

Lee

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 07 Nov 2013, 4:27 am

Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?
Lee:

If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:



But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.
 
PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Colonel Von Hello on Thu 07 Nov 2013, 5:17 am

Stan Dane wrote:
Lee Farley wrote:Stan,

I believe Jack and Redfern's father was not R. C. Dougherty.  That is how the FBI wrote his name during the affidavit that Jack gave on 12/19/63 when Jack's father was allegedly present with him but according to the following link the father's actual name was R. O. Dougherty.

In addition to Jack's brother Redfern C. Dougherty, there was a sister called Dorothy Ladeta Dougherty who was born in 1926 according to the Texas Legislative records:

Name                                           Birthdate   Sex  Mother                          Father                               County
==============================================================================================================================
Dougherty, Dorothy Ladeta            10-20-1926   F   Mary Kriese                     R O Dougherty                     Dallas

http://files.usgwarchives.net/tx/dallas/vitals/births/1926/dallb26c.txt

Was it Jack's father with him during the FBI interview or was it his brother?  Don't know.  But I'm always wary when names are spelt wrong in certain documents.  If it was the father - how did they get the middle initial wrong?
Lee:

If he was Redfern O, then his family spelled his name wrong on his tombstone in Calvary Hill Cemetery, Dallas TX:



But who knows. Spelling anomalies seem to show up a lot with this family.
 
PS: My father was born in 1920, but his birth certificate shows a 1 typed through the 0 (192Φ). My grandmother shrugged it off saying it was 1920 and the birth order/certificates of his siblings showed this had to be true. It never became an issue for the remainder of his life, but it just goes to show that even official documents can get screwed up.
Very true, Stan.

Trying hard to find anomalies often results in overlooking simple stuff that is staring you in the face.  I've looked at the picture of that tombstone 1000 times.

If Shelley and Truly have backgrounds that are suspect at best then I still level suspicion at Jack E. Dougherty and his background given he worked with the other two for a long, long time.  I think I'm trying too hard trying to find any clue that may shine some light on this so may take a break from old Jack but the photos of Redfern Dougherty and Jack Daugherty from the yearbook that Tom posted have me very perplexed.

One day all of this will fall into place for us.

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Tom Scully on Fri 08 Nov 2013, 2:40 pm

Lee Farley wrote:http://www.fold3.com/document/18172663/

Tom, do you have access to a better copy of this - - or better eyes?

Lee
Lee,

An apology for several delayed responses. Daughter Dorothy's birth cert. image.:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-UxD6g5icVTY/UnwZ9RtvWeI/AAAAAAAABhI/axnINEk4Tu8/s1024/DorothyBorthCert.jpg
All things considered, I think it is an elaborate "C" and not an "O". BTW, I had better tread carefully here. The relation I telephoned
recently was one of Dorothy's sons.

Here is an image of Redfern's 1978 Death Cert.:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OawDxge6f7Y/UnwaCBVb45I/AAAAAAAABhQ/mRu2iY9vgI0/s912/RedfernCdeathCert.jpg
The "C" is type written.

As far as Dudley Tarlton Dougherty, I embarked on a search and immediately came upon his sister's obit.:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/08/14/classified/paid-notice-deaths-king-may-tarlton-topsy-dougherty.html
...quickly leading to her daughter's obit.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9402E6DD123AF932A25750C0A96F9C8B63
Her daughter, Dudley's niece, was married to a guy from St. Louis and they lived on Juptier Island. His name is Peter S. Pauley, so that
was intriguing as well. The Bushes and Pryror Reeds are inseparable. Permelia Pryor Reed's father, Samuel was from St. Louis. She personally signed off on all prospective buyers of Jupiter Island property. Pauley was not related to Edwin, but to an architect, Walter E Pauley, who partnered with Charles Eames. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_and_Ray_Eames

It concerns me how little control I actually have in avoiding tangents. I will get back to Dudley... but Margeson and other Rochester natives are on the plate.


http://www.adst.org/OH%20TOCs/Wrampelmeier,%20Brooks.toc.pdf
BROOKS WRAMPELMEIER
Interviewed by: Charles Stuart Kennedy
Initial interview date: March 22, 2000


........When the Kennedy Administration
came in, Mill's pro forma resignation was accepted with no other explanation. There
wasn’t any “we have something else in mind for you.” It was just “please go in and get
agrément for this fellow Macomber,” who had been the Assistant Secretary for
Congressional Affair in the Eisenhower Administration. President Kennedy apparently
liked Macomber but wanted to replace him with a congressman from Arkansas who had
lost his seat. Mills was later offered the embassy in Uruguay but he declined and retired
from the Foreign Service.
Q: Well, Macomber had also been a favorite of Rooney’s and Rooney was the
appropriations man for the department of state.
WRAMPELMEIER: Well, Macomber was brought into State by John Foster Dulles. His
family and the Dulles family came from Rochester. Macomber came out in January 1961,
a bachelor just 40 years old. Mills was in his sixties. I think the idea was that having an
ambassador in Amman closer in age to King Hussein would be an advantage. The British
also sent a relatively young ambassador named John Henniker-Major. So you had two
relatively young ambassadors with a king who was at that time in his late 20s or early
30s......

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by 9K116 on Mon 11 Nov 2013, 11:48 pm

Sorry for interrupting this genealogy subtopic, but I got another question regarding JED.

He (JED) told to WC that about the time of assassination he went to the 6th floor `to get some stock`. Now I wonder:
1. Did WC try to specify, what kind of `stock` and why JED was looking for? Why `geting some stock` was so urgent?
2. Maybe this is especially my problem since English is only my third language, but is it so that words `some stock` sound very inconcrete?

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 25 Nov 2013, 8:29 am

greg parker wrote:Tom's find is still important.

Brother Redfern had 3 years in ROTC's Crack Company and attended ROTC Camp Dallas 2 years running. 

Apart from being a Dallas ROTC program, I have no idea what "Crack Company" was, but I don't think it was a secret society of coke snorters. Camp Dallas was a month long ROTC camp. 

During the Cold War, the ROTC trained both future Military Intelligence Officers and Army Security Agency officers. A notable example is Ed Lansdale.  

Jack does not appear to have been in the ROTC - but did spend his army stint at an Indiana base where all the state-of-the-art German aircraft were brought for reverse engineering.  

In 1972, Redfern Dougherty, Jr was made Manager of General Accounting for the Transcontinental Gas Pipe Line Corp based in Houston.  http://www.newspapers.com/newspage/3443065
Mr. Tom Scully:
 
Could you please use your genealogy skills and tools to check into the background of Redfern C. Dougherty Jr., brother of Jack E. Dougherty? What he did, where he lived and worked, who he associated with, etc.?
 
I can't shake the likeness of the guy in the William Allen "Bottle Photo" to these early pictures of Redfern Jr.



If this guy was Redfern Jr., what was he doing in front of the TSBD building right after the assassination?
 
It may well be another fruitless tangent, but who knows.

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Re: Jack Edwin Dougherty

Post by Richard Gilbride on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 2:00 am

I recently took the opportunity to e-mail Melvin Eisenberg, regarding his memo "Identity of Assassin", which I included as an attachment. I just received a reply, which said essentially that too much time has passed for him to remember what was on his mind in 1964. He doesn't even remember Jack Dougherty. He's 79 and still teaches law and so I had hopes he'd have memories of serving on the Warren Commission.

My questions were:

- Do you recall why you titled the memo so?

- The memo outlined your suspicions of TSBD employee Jack Dougherty. Yet when Dougherty was deposed by Joseph Ball a month later, not a single one of your concerns were addressed. What was your reaction?

- Dougherty admitted in his November 22 police affidavit, and in his testimony, that he was on the sixth floor shortly before the assassination. Yet he was never once asked what he witnessed up there. Any comments?

- Roy Truly described Dougherty as "mentally retarded" during his Secret Service interview, adding that he "has been especially confused since the assassination." It may interest you (it came out in 2011) that Truly also described a black employee near the base of the elevators as "slightly retarded" when he ran to the shaft with motorcycle officer Marrion Baker. Doesn't it seem likely that Truly's "retarded" characterization was his standard method of deflecting inquiries to employees who may have been involved in the assassination?

- Despite Truly yelling up the shaft and ringing the service bell, the freight elevators remained hung up on the 5th floor. Yet when Truly and Baker had climbed the stairs to the 5th, they found that the west freight elevator was no longer there. And it wasn't until Dougherty's April 8th testimony- 4 1/2 months after the assassination- that he finally admitted, with some difficulty, that he was the one who had brought the west freight elevator downstairs. Did you have any suspicions as to his delay in coming forward with this information, i.e. that he was hoping to keep it a secret?

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