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MrScrambledEgg
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Wed 13 Mar 2019, 1:07 am
Is 133A tilted?

 

As previously discussed, Jack White in his HSCA testimony refers to the verticals in the background as the vertical axis of the backyard, but does not make himself very clear on this point.

 
The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Fcnyj7

 

In his “Fake’ video, White shows an image of 133A that has been detilted to make the staircase poles vertical. Again he does not discuss anywhere in this video that he has detilted the photo, although a number of detilted images are shown.

 



The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 140yyp1





 

 

On the Internet there are to found a number of detilted photos which use the staircase pole(s) as the vertical, such as this ‘Copyright CORBIS’ photo, which I originally assumed was the original. This suggests that at one time it was common knowledge that the staircase poles represented the vertical axis of the backyard.

 

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Ckraa

 

 

The Life Magazine cover shows the staircase poles almost vertical. This suggests that the editors were aware that the poles were the actual vertical in the image and have adjusted the original photo somewhat to comply with reality. This results in this image of Oswald having an odd lean backwards on the magazine cover.

 

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 15i4xmg

 

 

This diptych of a person standing in the backyard seems to me to have been done to show that the staircase poles are the vertical axis.

 

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Vr8uih

 

 
The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 2w5w184

The photo appears to be contemporaneous with the late 60’s or early 70’s as the house next door to the Neely St house still exists but the shrub has grown somewhat. I believe that photo has been taken from an angle to show that the staircase pole is aligned with the (presumably vertical) next door house fence boards (as shown by the red arrow) and thus is highly likely to be vertical or nearly so.

 

During the 60’s probably hundreds or even thousands of people traipsed through the Neely St backyard, cameras in hand. It would be good if there were to be some contemporary photographic evidence still available of plumb lines held against the vertical elements in the backyard. Perhaps Jack White has something like this in his archived notes. Barring this I believe, to use a popular Warren Commission phrase, the preponderance of evidence indicates that the staircase poles are likely to be vertical axis of the backyard.

 

In my next post I will try to calculate the amount of the shift of the center of gravity along the ground plane if the photo is detilted. This is the distance from the center of gravity to the ground x the sine of the tilt angle.
MrScrambledEgg
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 1:12 am
The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 21dohmv


Here is an estimate of the tilt angle of the 133A. The number is shown on top of Oswald person's left shoe and is 2.73 degrees.
MrScrambledEgg
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on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 1:50 am
In order to calculate the shift in the center of gravity projection along the ground, we also need the distance between the ground and the center of gravity of the figure. Since Farid provides no numbers, I have estimated the distance by measuring a blow-up of Figure 5(b) and comparing this with Oswald’s known height allowing for shortening due to Oswald figure’s bent knees.
 
 The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 11in2gy


I measured the total height of the blow-up as 124mm, 72mm for distance between center of gravity and ground.
 
Farid discusses the foreshortening of the Oswald figure’s height in his earlier 2010 paper “A 3-D Photo Forensic Analysis of the Lee Harvey Oswald Backyard Photo’
 
Farid applies an earlier less sophisticated model to the photo and determines that the foreshortened height of the Oswald figure is in the ratio 40.186/44.8. This is the ratio he has calculated by 1. fitting the model to the photo and 2. stretching the model to its full height. Since Oswald’s height was 5’9” or 69”, it follows that the height of the figure as shown in the photo is 69 x 40.186/44.8 = 61.89” or 62” in round figures. This shortening is quite a lot so I’m not surprised Farid doesn’t actually provide the foreshortened height value in the paper.
 
 The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 35hjl1u
 
Therefore the distance between the model’s center of gravity and the ground is 62 x 72/124 = 36”.
 
We can calculate the shift in the center of gravity projection by multiplying this distance by the sine of the tilt angle 2.7 degrees, which is

36 x .0471 = 1.7”
 
If you combine Farid’s fudge with the feet with this value it’s clear that projected center of gravity is now close to, on top of, or outside the boundary of the feet. This means that the Oswald figure is unstable. Even if you don’t take into consideration Farid’s fudge the figure is very close to unstable.
 
The following figure is purely an estimate based on the distance between the center of gravity projection and the feet boundary estimated to be approx 2”
 
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MrScrambledEgg
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 1:52 am
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greg parker
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Mon 18 Mar 2019, 5:24 am
it follows that the height of the figure as shown in the photo is 69 x 40.186/44.8 = 61.89” or 62” in round figures. 

That's about the same as other methods have shown. FWIW.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Person in pic is an Australian actor

on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 8:13 pm
With reference to the above pic of a young man holding a rifle in the Neely Street backyard, the man is Australian actor Daniel Webber, who played Lee Oswald in the Stephen King mini-series 11.22.63. So, the pic of Webber would have been taken during production of the mini-series, so I estimate around 2015 sometime.
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Sat 13 Apr 2019, 8:55 pm
Phil Hopley wrote:With reference to the above pic of a young man holding a rifle in the Neely Street backyard, the man is Australian actor Daniel Webber, who played Lee Oswald in the Stephen King mini-series 11.22.63. So, the pic of Webber would have been taken during production of the mini-series, so I estimate around 2015 sometime.
Thanks Phil. That is very helpful. His IMBD bio states he is 5' 81/2".

Can someone who still has any appropriate software, measure him using the known measurements of other items?

If he comes out at about the right height, we know the measurements already done of the real BYP using the same software and the same known measurements must also be right (and therefore proving they are fakes, given they show Lee to be far too short)

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Stan Dane
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 4:45 am
greg parker wrote:
Phil Hopley wrote:With reference to the above pic of a young man holding a rifle in the Neely Street backyard, the man is Australian actor Daniel Webber, who played Lee Oswald in the Stephen King mini-series 11.22.63. So, the pic of Webber would have been taken during production of the mini-series, so I estimate around 2015 sometime.
Thanks Phil. That is very helpful. His IMBD bio states he is 5' 81/2".

Can someone who still has any appropriate software, measure him using the known measurements of other items?

If he comes out at about the right height, we know the measurements already done of the real BYP using the same software and the same known measurements must also be right (and therefore proving they are fakes, given they show Lee to be far too short)

My swag.

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 BYP-Height-Analysis-w-Actor
Ed. Ledoux
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on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 6:48 am
In a panel at Sundance Film Festival, series writer Bridget Carpenter mentions that she and the cast were able to visit the Neely Street location in order to re-stage the famous photograph. You can see a quick glimpse of this in the full-length trailer, as Oswald’s wife Marina snaps the shot. A more detailed look can be seen in an interview with James Franco (skip to :36).
Although the scene appears early in the eight-part Hulu series, the cast and crew reenacted the photo on their last day of shooting. They really wanted to make sure they got it right, Webber told BI.
The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Screen21

Says he is 5 foot 7 and change, not 5' 8" and a half, that is wishful thinking.

"Australian actor, known for playing Lewis Wilson in Marvel's The Punisher and Lee Harvey Oswald in 11.22.63. He used to be listed as 167cm in the Australian Showcast Casting website, although Daniel himself gave his height as "5'8" and weight as 70kg (154 pounds) in a magazine article."
https://www.celebheights.com/s/Daniel-Webber-6870.html

167.00 cm = 5′ 5.7480″
Subtract an inch of slouch ...the 5 foot 4+ measure is quite possible.

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Scree120


We are correct and still vindicated.
King and Webber work for us.
Cheers,
Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 7:35 am
"They really wanted to make sure they got it right, Webber told BI."

But did they get it right

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Daniel10

Cheers, Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 7:36 am
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Cheers,
Ed
greg parker
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 8:17 am
Thanks guys. Can we test Stan's figures by using the known width of the papers - 11"?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
Ed. Ledoux
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on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 9:11 am

 "Can we test Stan's figures by using the known width of the papers - 11"?"

Assuming they got that 'right' as well, ...perhaps.

Can we compare the post height, width etc. for a baseline?
Ed
Stan Dane
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 9:12 am
greg parker wrote:Thanks guys. Can we test Stan's figures by using the known width of the papers - 11"?

Someone to independently verify this would be nice, but we're damn close.

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greg parker
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on Sun 14 Apr 2019, 10:23 am
Thanks Stan and Ed!
Stan Dane
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on Wed 17 Apr 2019, 10:54 pm
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Ed. Ledoux
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on Thu 18 Apr 2019, 5:18 pm
Wowza Stan,
In comparison Oswald looks giant next to the actor even though he is but a few inches shorter ....
I came up with a similar result.

The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Fiveni10

I think this could be the root or crux of it.
Someone while faking 133a/b and sizing Lee into the image made an error, mathematically screwed the pooch... but is still an error, not optical(?) or perspective...The 133 Lee's are too short and the guy playing Oswald on tv is even shorter.
There I've summerized the argument as that's about the size of it.
Ed
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 4:11 am
Something is wrong with these photos. Period. If they look like faked photos, walk like faked photos, talk like faked photos….
 
Over the past year, I've been scanning boxes of old family photos to preserve them for the future. There are a large number of them from the 1940s and 50s, from my side of the family and my wife's. All B/W. As I was scanning some from the 40s during the War showing my grandfather, my dad and my uncles, I realized that in none of the pictures did I see anything that looked weird, such as people standing in Leaning Tower of Pisa poses or midget looking guys holding giant M1 carbines, etc. (I had earlier been doing some analysis of the BYPs so I had had that on my mind.)
 
What we have here is fakery. It didn't even have to be good fakery. Just good enough to eliminate a problem. Because when you control the levers of power, you can say pretty much anything and get away with it. And compel others to stay with the program.

Until people wake up. And it's time people started waking the hell up.
 
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 7:15 am
That ghosted image in the above does not look right. I know what the member is trying to say that he's trying to get the 5-9 LHO in the BYP and trying to prove the subject is too small in the originals.

But the ghosted one looks way too big. I think what people are forgetting here is there is perspective you have to factor in. Sticking a person from another photo into a second photo does not prove that the person in the original is faked.
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 9:07 am
We are inching closer and closer to resolving this matter once and for all. Fine work Stan and Ed. I think in the not too distant future we might have definitive proof that the BYP133a is a fake.
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 9:17 am
JFK Case,

welcome.

"Sticking a person from another photo into a second photo does not prove that the person in the original is faked."


True that, but I don't think that's the point here. It's the height of the figure that matters, there are known factors within these photo's, so we are able to determine with some accuracy the different real life measurements of most of the variables at play within the pic.


One being Oswald's height. We know with some certainty that Oswald was 5' 9" tall. We know that the worker newspaper had a width of 11", and we know that the rifle being held by the Actor is the 40" model MC rifle. Armed with those measurements we can determine the actual height of the human figures in each photo.
The Math just doesn't add up in this case.


There has been a lot of study done here behind the scenes regarding the BYP's and all I can say is we hope to have some of the results of that study available shortly.
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The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance - Page 4 Empty Re: The Backyard Photos: Ring Transposition and and LHO stance

on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 9:37 am
Mick Purdy wrote:JFK Case,

welcome.

"Sticking a person from another photo into a second photo does not prove that the person in the original is faked."


True that, but I don't think that's the point here. It's the height of the figure that matters, there are known factors within these photo's, so we are able to determine with some accuracy the different real life measurements of most of the variables at play within the pic.


One being Oswald's height. We know with some certainty that Oswald was 5' 9" tall. We know that the worker newspaper had a width of 11", and we know that the rifle being held by the Actor is the 40" model MC rifle. Armed with those measurements we can determine the actual height of the human figures in each photo.
The Math just doesn't add up in this case.


There has been a lot of study done here behind the scenes regarding the BYP's and all I can say is we hope to have some of the results of that study available shortly.
Exactly Mick.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



https://www.thenewdisease.space
Ed. Ledoux
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 11:49 am
If either dog had bit them Stan, I believe they'd be a bit more specific to the animal control officer.

The Back Yard Illusionists moved on quickly after showing the photo to Lee. He seemed to call their bluff.
The BYPs are a testament to the religious nature of the accusers. They would never question the magician, that'd be rude.

Does not a simple measurement rule out authenticity of the BYPs trick photography,... if not why not, do we need a phd in photo analysis to measure a known object? If we do then these are certainly special photos where physical metron is uncertain.
As when a conspiracy theory becomes a conspiracy, when facts demonstrate their were two or more people conspiring to commit an act, thus we have but to find one unnatural element of the photo to impeach its genuineness.
The height of the accused is not malleable nor is the papers or rifle.
There are no perspectives that account for the diminutive vertex, no amount of lean of slouch, no acme algorithms necessary.
So does a ruler lie when laid atop these images?
Asking for my best friend (woof)
Ed

PS
Stan it is perfectly honest to place a 5' 9" Lee in that image as that is what the image maker was claiming with their own rendition.
PPS
Lucy Fry is 5 foot 9.
She wears a three inch heel and Daniel a nearly two inch. Difference should be two inches.

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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 12:27 pm
"do we need a phd in photo analysis to measure a known object? "


No we do not Ed. We have been extremely accurate in our measuring I'm tipping. But when we hold that press conference showing that these pics were forged I'm hoping that a person with a few letters after their name will be sitting along side us with irrefutable proof that the dogs bite was always bigger than it's bark - Woof. Once an error analysis is done on this by the person with the letters the house of cards will tumble.
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on Fri 19 Apr 2019, 2:22 pm
That is our appeal to authority Mick.
Remember math doesn't require anyone special to use it. We are only verifying our results with a XYZ to placate the masses.
Our claim stands that the man pictured either can not be Lee or Lee was superimposed into an image.
Our proofs can be checked by Pythagoras himself.
But they are Self Evident.
And on this we stake our reputation and shows we are not barking up the wrong tree.
Cheers, Ed

PS, Mick its akin to a clearer pic of PM.
We don't need it... 'they' do.
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