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Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Mon 01 Oct 2018, 8:25 pm
Since Oswald was on the front steps during and just after the shooting,he obviously was not a shooter. But even if he did not fire any shot in Dealey Plaza it does not necessarily mean that he completely innocent. Even Sean had said that he could not fully rule out the possibility that Oswald was involved in some way.

My personal opinion is that Oswald was quite likely fully innocent and had nothing to with the plot. But would like to hear about your opinions on this matter.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 7:43 am
It seems obvious to me that he was tied up with intelligence but out of his depth. He was an expendable low-level foot soldier operating on a need-to-know basis. If being unwittingly involved is being innocent, then he was innocent.

“I like to watch the little mice sniffing at the cheese just before they venture into the little trap…I like to see their expressions when it snaps shut, breaking their little necks.” (Allen Dulles, quoted in The Devil’s Chessboard by David Talbot, p 135.)

Charming people to have as one’s bosses.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 10:05 am
Vinny wrote:Since Oswald was on the front steps during and just after the shooting,he obviously was not a shooter. But even if he did not fire any shot in Dealey Plaza it does not necessarily mean that he completely innocent. Even Sean had said that he could not fully rule out the possibility that Oswald was involved in some way.

My personal opinion is that Oswald was quite likely fully innocent and had nothing to with the plot. But would like to hear about your opinions on this matter.
Depending on which forum you visit Oswald was either "Saint Patsy" or a doppleganger.
Personally I think he was a guy who went to work on Friday and never came home.

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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Tue 02 Oct 2018, 9:37 pm
Thanks Goban and Steely.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 4:27 am
Much depends on what you make of certain evidence.

I don't think any plan to frame Oswald would have worked had he not been involved in the plot at some level. It looks like Oswald knew 'something' was going to happen and had arranged an escape from Dealey Plaza (or had it arranged for him). The USMC bracelet and ring are significant, in my view - LHO was a patriot, or so he believed, and he knew that what he had become embroiled in was dangerous.

Roger Craig's statements and testimony from 1963 and 1964 are the key. It seems Oswald was admitting to being driven away in a station wagon but he was resigned to his cover being blown: "everybody will know who I am now". This suggests that his primary concern was that his prospective career as a government agent had come to an end - if he had genuinely been an active supporter of and participant within a conspiracy, having his cover blown would be the least of his worries.

Therefore, I think he was an inside informer playing a dual role. Ostensibly 'in on the plot' he reported to a superior who was framing him all along.

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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 9:04 am
The different perspectives are interesting. It looks like two definite yeses and two not so definite yeses, Redfern’s being less definite than mine.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 6:42 pm
Oswald's N.O. activities are suspicious and point to connections with INTEL.

In Dallas, LHO as Prayer Man just stands there he is not in the least interested what just happened.
Let me point out that every man left those steps, but Prayer Man. Frazier left, Roy Lewis left, Carl Jones did, Molina went, and so did Shelley and Lovelady.
So yes he knew what was going to happen, he just did not pull the trigger.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 8:42 pm
Thanks Bart. I am not entirely convinced but it is possible I guess that he knew something would happen. I still have a hard time picturing him as a participant in the plot.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 10:02 pm
Oswald’s Russian adventure and related events also point to INTEL.

Barto’s point added to what Redfern said does, on reflection, seem to tilt the balance against Oswald being completely innocent.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Wed 03 Oct 2018, 11:16 pm
I suggest you listen to Oswald's interview in N.O. after the altercation with those DRE clowns. 
How intelligent he sounds, he has an answer to every question, now picture this 'attitude' during his interrogation, no wonder they called him arrogant etc etc.

But Oswald had not one iota of common sense.

He was extremely smart, but not very clever, so easily led without realising he was being to.....
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 6:46 am
That’s my impression of him as well, and that would suggest his suitability for the patsy role.

By the way in talking about his INTEL ties earlier, I should have mentioned how that’s sketched out in Greg’s book.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 9:07 am
Goban Saor wrote:Oswald’s Russian adventure and related events also point to INTEL.

Barto’s point added to what Redfern said does, on reflection, seem to tilt the balance against Oswald being completely innocent.
Scenario 1
Oswald is placed in the TSBD as part of an active plot to remove JFK. One can easily understand his reluctance to divulge anything when caught, perhaps hoping help will be at hand.

Scenario 2
Oswald is placed in the TSBD under the impression a staged attack will take place. After being charged with both JFK's and Tippet's murder he still decides not to divulge anything to keep him out of a short sit in a hot chair.

Scenario 3
Oswald is placed in the TSBD under an entirely different premise. He has nothing to divulge.

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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 9:54 am
Scenario 4
Oswald did divulge why he was placed in the TSBD. It was discussed during a Warren Commission executive session regarding his status as an FBI informer due to a newspaper article which must have sourced from the DPD.

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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 10:23 am
If I understand you correctly, Steely, the first of those scenarios is the only one in which Oswald might be a knowing accessory to the assassination – or he might not.

Even in that "worst case" scenario, I’d have to conclude that he is innocent – and probably completely innocent, in that he couldn’t be blamed for the gullibility that rendered him susceptible to deception.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 10:43 am
Goban Saor wrote:If I understand you correctly, Steely, the first of those scenarios is the only one in which Oswald might be a knowing accessory to the assassination – or he might not.

Even in that "worst case" scenario, I’d have to conclude that he is innocent – and probably completely innocent, in that he couldn’t be blamed for the gullibility that rendered him susceptible to deception.
That's how I see it Goban. I think scenario 4 may have a bit of merit simply because there is a trail of sorts.
Wish I can remember who was quoted as describing Oswald as "a useful idiot".

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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 5:09 pm
The FBI informant scenario, was made up by a local Dallas journo. Lonnie Hudgins and had Wade and Alexander running with it to the WC

William Kent said this remark during a thanksgiving dinner to his family. I heard the term again during a TV series the other day......
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Thu 04 Oct 2018, 11:09 pm
My take for what it's worth and with nothing more than intuition after reading all the material here about Oswald is that he is innocent. And it was just another day for him in at the TSBD. He may have been connected in some way to the agencies, but then again back then who wasn't. I still believe he was set up, and he was not aware of the plans to assassinate JFK. Just my take. I believe emphatically though that he was aggressively manipulated and then implicated by a few people whom wanted him framed and convicted for the killing of Tippit and Kennedy. The BYP's, all the paperwork found suggesting he bought a rifle through the mail , the Randle's, Frazier and everything the Paine's provided to implicate him in my opinion prove this to be so. A force from somewhere wanted Oswald to look guilty and then be killed. Just an opinion.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 8:15 am
Scenario 1.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 10:50 am
Scenario 1
Oswald is placed in the TSBD as part of an active plot to remove JFK. One can easily understand his reluctance to divulge anything when caught, perhaps hoping help will be at hand.

Scenario 2
Oswald is placed in the TSBD under the impression a staged attack will take place. After being charged with both JFK's and Tippet's murder he still decides not to divulge anything to keep him out of a short sit in a hot chair.

Scenario 3
Oswald is placed in the TSBD under an entirely different premise. He has nothing to divulge.


Scenario 4
Oswald did divulge why he was placed in the TSBD. It was discussed during a Warren Commission executive session regarding his status as an FBI informer due to a newspaper article which must have sourced from the DPD.



Scenario 3 for me, but with the caveat he had nothing to divulge about the murders which he did not commit. He certainly had material he could have divulged about other matters but chose not to.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

on Fri 05 Oct 2018, 11:23 pm
I too think that scenario 3 is the most likely scenario.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

Yesterday at 7:35 pm
I just happened to come across this brief entry in the Oxford Dictionary of English (2010 edition) this morning when looking up something else:
Oswald, Lee Harvey (1939-63) American alleged assassin of John F Kennedy. He denied the charge of assassinating the president, but was murdered before he could be brought to trial.
It’s reassuring to know that at least one authoritative source hasn’t lost its grip on objectivity.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

Yesterday at 8:11 pm
Thanks for that,Goban.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

Today at 9:11 am
After reading through some of the posts here on this thread, I have a question, are some here saying Lee Oswald had an escape plan? Can someone show me by what mode of transport that was achieved and how that might've worked out for him. 
Not being pedantic, but I'm struggling with understanding the escape bit from the TSBD.
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Re: Is Oswald Completely Innocent?

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