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Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

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Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by greg parker on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 2:44 pm

Roy Truly said Mrs Paine told him one of his young workers [Buell] had said how busy it was and that she was making a speculative phone call on behalf of a another young man.

Mr. TRULY. She said, "Mr. Truly,"---words to this effect---you understand---" Mr. Truly, you don't know who I am but I have a neighbor whose brother works for you. I don't know what his name is. But he tells his sister that you are very busy. And I am just wondering if you can use another man," or words to that effect.
And I told Mrs.---she said, "I have a fine young man living here with his wife and baby, and his wife is expecting a baby--another baby, in a few days, and he needs work desperately."
Now, this is not absolutely--this is as near as I can remember the conversation over the telephone.
And I told Mrs. Paine that--to send him down, and I would talk to him--that I didn't have anything in mind for him of a permanent nature, but if he was suited, we could possibly use him for a brief time.

Buell isn't asked about what information he gave his sister, if any, but does say it was the busy season when he started, and that it was still going "pretty good" when Lee started. Conformation, of sorts, for Truly.

But Buell also claims he got the job through an Irving employment agency. This is possibly significant on two counts ( 1 ) If Truly used employment agencies and he needed someone at the time Lee was hired, had he already, or was he even planning to, advertise this vacancy? ( 2 ) Buell's sister actually seems to suggest at one point, he got the job because she "listed several places that he might go to look for work... [places where someone with] not very much of an education can find work." She does go on to say that she never claimed she knew there was a vacancy (in regard to Lee) and didn't know if Buell had even tried any of the places she suggested.

Still, it would be something of a coincidence if Linnie Mae mentioned the TSBD as a possibility for her brother - then the brother is referred to that very business by an employment agency. I also find worrisome that the FBI did not interview anyone at that agency... nor does Truly ever appear to have been asked about ever using employment agencies. That could be important on yet another level... background checks - especially high on the agenda in the South in the depth of Cold War and fever-pitch anti-communism. Truly does not seem to have arranged such checks. But if he hired through an agency, he wouldn't need to - the agency would have already vetted the referrals.

Mr. BALL - What kind of work did Lee do, what kind of work was assigned to him?
Mr. FRAZIER - He filled orders like I do and several other men.
Mr. BALL - How many order fillers were there employed at that time?
Mr. FRAZIER - Oh, I would say roughly around five, six at that time. Because about the time we was real busy, the busy season. I come there, you know, and they was going pretty good when I went to work there and I say we were still going pretty good when he come to work there.
We had a lot of work to do and usually when we have a lot of work to do we have more order fillers.

Mr. BALL. But on this one occasion she was in the house, Mrs. Roberts' house?
Mrs. RANDLE. Mrs. Roberts.
Mr. BALL. With Mrs. Paine, Mrs. Roberts and yourself?
Mrs. RANDLE. That is right.
Mr. BALL. Was there some conversation at that time about her husband Lee Oswald?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, they had--it was just general knowledge in the neighborhood that he didn't have a job and she was expecting a baby. Of course. I didn't know where he was or anything. And of course you know just being neighborly and everything, we felt sorry for Marina because her baby was due right away as we understood it, and he didn't have any work, so they said, so it was just--
Mr. BALL. Mrs. Paine told you that Lee didn't have any work?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I suppose. It was just in conversation.
Mr. BALL. Marina didn't take part in the conversation?
Mrs. RANDLE. No. She couldn't. So far as I know, she couldn't speak.
Mr. BALL. You and Mrs. Roberts and Mrs. Paine talked about it?
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes.
Mr. BALL. Was there anything said then about the Texas School Book Depository as a place he might get a job?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, we didn't say that he might get a job, because I didn't know there was a job open. The reason that we were being helpful, Wesley had just looked for a job, and I had helped him to try to find one. We listed several places that he might go to look for work. When you live in a place you know some places that someone with, you know, not very much of an education can find work.
So, it was among one of the places that we mentioned. We mentioned several others, and Mrs. Paine said that well, he couldn't apply for any of the jobs that would require driving because he couldn't drive, and it was just in conversation that you might talk just any day and not think a thing on earth about it. In fact, I didn't even know that he had even tried any place that we mentioned.
Mr. BALL. What were some of the other places mentioned?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I remember two of them. Mrs. Roberts entered into the conversation and, of course, she is more familiar with the place than I am. It was Manor Bakeries which was a home delivery service.
Then there was this Texas Gypsum which makes sheet rock and things like that, and we mentioned because Wesley had tried those places that I mentioned those.
Mr. BALL. And then you also mentioned the Texas Book Depository?
Mrs. RANDLE. Well, I didn't know there was a job opening over there.
Mr. BALL. But did you mention it?
Mrs. RANDLE. But we said he might try over there. There might be work over there because it was the busy season but I didn't have any previous knowledge that there was any job opening.

Mr. BALL - What--where is the employment agency and what is its name when you first applied for a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I went to several but, see, this one got me this job the main one was Massey, the employment agency, and it is over there on Shady Grove Road.
Mr. BALL - In Dallas?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; in Irving.
Mr. BALL - How do you spell that name, the name of the employment agency?
Mr. FRAZIER - Massey?
Mr. BALL - Yes.
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe it is M-a-s-s-e-y.
Mr. BALL - And it was a woman at the employment agency that called you and told you to go to see the Texas School Book Depository?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, right.
Mr. BALL - And you went to see Mr. Truly and after an interview he gave you a job?
Mr. FRAZIER - Correct.

Meanwhile, on the other side of the was-it / was-it-not a busy period ledger, we have Bonnie Ray Williams:

Mr. BALL. When you went to work there, did. you work at the building on the corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. WILLIAMS. No, sir. The first time I went there I was hired on at the other warehouse, the lower part of Houston Street.
Mr. BALL. By lower part, do you mean north of the main building?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir. Down further, the big white building.
Mr. BALL. That is sort of a warehouse?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. You went to work there. That is about a block, a block and a half north?
Mr. WILLIAMS. A block and a half.
Mr. BALL. North of the corner of Houston and Elm?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And how long did you work at that place?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Well, I worked there until business began to get slow. I think that was--it was before November. I think it was some time during October. I am not sure.
Mr. BALL. And what did they put you to work at at that time?
Mr. WILLIAMS. They called me up to help lay a floor on the fifth floor, they wanted more boards over it. As I say, business was slow, and they were trying to keep us on without laying us off at the time. So I was using the saw, helping cut wood and lay wood.
Mr. BALL. You were laying a wood floor over the old floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. On the fifth floor?
Mr. WILLIAMS. yes, sir.
Mr. BALL. And when you finished on the fifth floor, what did you do?
Mr. WILLIAMS. After we finished on the fifth floor, we started to move up to the sixth floor. But at the time we didn't complete the sixth floor. We only completed just a little portion of it.
Mr. BALL. By the time, you are talking about November 22d?
Mr. WILLIAMS. Yes, sir.

And we have Givens' knocking the stuffing out of any notion that the TSBD was a compassionate employee who "made work" for employees rather than lay them off when times were slow. One more thing about Givens. He, like Williams, had come over from the other warehouse for the floor-laying. So were there people come in for that exercise? Yes. But they were still company employees.

Mr. GIVENS. Well, I came back and I worked for a construction company, and then after that I got this job down here at the depository.
Mr. BELIN. At the School Book Depository?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. How long have you worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Off and on about 6 years.
Mr. BELIN. Was there any period of time that you haven't worked there?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What happened then?
Mr. GIVENS. Well, I Just, you know, sometimes I had some days to layoff during the slack season, like it is now, and when it' is rush season he calls you back.
Mr. BELIN. So it was just a question of being laid off during the slack season?
Mr. GIVENS. Yes, sir.

We also have Norman showing how slow it really was. No orders to fill. No help needed by the 6th floor crew. Just stand around all day "shooting the breeze".

Mr. BALL. Did you ever go to the sixth floor that day, that morning?
Mr. NORMAN. I can't---yes, I went up that morning during the time I think they were laying the floor up there when I went up there.
Mr. BALL. Did you help them?
Mr. NORMAN. No; I was just up there shooting the breeze.

In all this, we cannot forget Mrs Ruth Paine. Recall that Roy Truly testified that Mrs Paine had phoned on the off chance they needed someone because she'd heard they were busy. Well, here is her version... she stated that Lillie Mae DID say that Buell had told her they needed someone... and then, just for good measure, she added that when she and Marina got home, she only phone the TSBD because Marina urged her to.

So it was all Marina's fault. Really.

Mrs. PAINE - As best I can reconstruct it this was, while having coffee at my immediate neighbors, Mrs. Ed Roberts, and also present was Mrs. Bill Randle, and Lee had said over the weekend that he had gotten the last of the unemployment compensation checks that were due him, and that it had been smaller than the others had been, and disappointing in its smallness and he looked very discouraged when he went to look for work.
Mr. JENNER - Did he say anything about amount?
Mrs. PAINE - I didn't hear the question.
Mr. JENNER - Did he say anything about amount
Mrs. PAINE - No; he didn't, just less.
Mr. JENNER - All right.
Mrs. PAINE - And the subject of his looking for work and that he hadn't found work for a week, came up while we were having coffee, the four young mothers at Mrs. Roberts' house, and Mrs. Randle mentioned that her younger brother, Wesley Frazier thought they needed another person at the Texas School Book Depository where Wesley worked.
Marina then asked me, after we had gone home, asked me if I would call--
Mr. JENNER - Was Marina present during this discussion?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes; Marina was present, yes, indeed.
Mr. JENNER - Did she understand the conversation?
Mrs. PAINE - It was a running translation, running, faulty translation going on.
Mr. JENNER - You were translating for her?
Mrs. PAINE - I was acting as her translator. And then after we came home she asked me if I would call the School Book Depository to see if indeed there was the possibility of an opening, and at her request, I did telephone--
Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, please.
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - While you were still in the Roberts' home was there any discussion at all of the subject mentioned by you or by Mrs. Randle or Mrs. Roberts or anyone else, of calls to be made, or that might be made, to the Texas School Book Depository in this connection?
Mrs. PAINE - I don't recall this discussion. As I recall it was a suggestion made by Marina to me after we got home, but I may be wrong.
Mr. JENNER - But that is your best recollection that you are now testifying?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - Is that correct?
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.
Mr. JENNER - You reached home and Marina suggested that "Would you please call the Texas School Depository?"
Mrs. PAINE - Yes.

There was never any doubt that the "welcoming committee" was going to get it's way in having the luncheon at the Trade Mart. The innocent spin is that the Trade Mart was being heavily promoted and some on the committee had strong ties to both it, and the other proposed venue.

Knowledge that the Trade Mart would win (and therefore, what the motorcade route would be), would have been available to any plotters with the right connections prior to Buell coming across from Huntsville.


Last edited by greg parker on Thu 23 Feb 2012, 1:49 pm; edited 4 times in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by Guest on Sat 18 Feb 2012, 10:17 pm

If all of the above was required to make a hit on Kennedy in Dallas, what happened in Chicago and Miami ? Is Ruth Paine a part of the conspiracy ? Abraham Zapruder will be filming along the motorcade route. Is Zapruder also a part of the conspiracy ?

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by greg parker on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 12:11 am

blue38 wrote:If all of the above was required to make a hit on Kennedy in Dallas, what happened in Chicago and Miami ? Is Ruth Paine a part of the conspiracy ? Abraham Zapruder will be filming along the motorcade route. Is Zapruder also a part of the conspiracy ?

Hi and welcome.

1. No. None of the above was required for the hit. It was required to get the patsy in place. They could have put all that aside and just gone ahead without a patsy. but they didn't.

2. I haven't looked into those prior plots enough to make an informed decision on what happened, though from memory, wasn't the trip cancelled for one of those? In any event, how many plots against Castro failed? How many times did the Czar's people try to kill Rasputin before finally succeeding? A number of plots against Hitler failed. The plot against FDR failed.

3. Ruth Paine and others in her family had deep intelligence connections. I don't think she was told any more than she needed to know, and otherwise just did as requested.

4. I don't understand your point about Zapruder. A number of people were filming, just as you would expect.

In regard to the quoted testimonies... I did not make them testify that way. But they did.

Who was telling the truth about how busy it had been, Truly and Frazier or Williams? If you believe Truly and Frazier, can you explain why they didn't just hold off on the re-flooring for a few more weeks when it was bound to slow down, and also why Norman was allowed to stand around all day "shooting the breeze"?

Who was telling the truth about how Frazier came to get a job at the depository?

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 12:23 am

Been at this a few years. I am not so much into it for the argument, but for the sake of the questions unanswered.

When I ask certain hard questions of certain "credible" researchers in the field, I get blocked from the forums.

I have asked researchers: Costella, Fetzer, and Jack White if they are Anti-Semitic in their treatment of Abraham Zapruder.

More explicitly, in their attempts to defame his reputation and character by implication.

These are tough questions. But I expected answers.

I hold folks on both sides of the fence to that standard.

I, myself, have been on both sides of the fence.

Though the entire truth of the matter may never be known, much is to be gathered by an objective study of the character of those actually involved.

In short, I do question the character of some of the foremost conspiracy people in the business, their motives, and what they have to gain.

Take the old standby, Robert Groden, for instance.

Hawking his books and DVD's in Dealey Plaza for 10 to 30 dollars a pop.

If say, one million people visit the site in a years time, what does he realize ?

How much is the real truth worth, or is perhaps some of it hidden behind the conspiracy of "conspiracy" ?

your servant,

j.

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by Guest on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 12:46 am

I also questioned researcher Bob Harris on You Tube on some very serious (or so I thought) aspects of his conspiracy conclusions.

His reply was to block me.

I was a southern cop for eight years, prior to my 30 year career with Postal Service Management.

In the mid 70's, I worked as a detective, as well as homicide and vice. (drugs, gambling, prostitution, etc.)

Though initially a CT, I don't see as many holes in the physical evidence as most folks might.

A routine case, and this guy Oswald would have been tried and fried.

This case is not routine.

I do realize that Government Agencies are, to this day, withholding information.

I am not sure that the information would reveal a "vast" government conspiracy to murder JFK, of if it still hides information to protect the agencies themselves under the guise of National Security.

There is a BIG difference, and I agree that the info should be released once and for all and that the chips should fall where they may.

However, I do believe that LHO had the means, the motive, and the opportunity to snuff Kennedy, and that the known physical evidence supports that conclusion.

j.

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by greg parker on Sun 19 Feb 2012, 8:47 am

Okay. Thanks for telling me some of your background and what you believe.

But you complain of others not answering questions and you haven't answered mine.

I would rather threads stay on topic, or at least relatively so.


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by Guest on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 8:53 am

Blue38 not giving any specifics about Lee Oswald's motive, Greg? Given the totality of evidence I'd also like to hear about Oswald's means and opportunity as well.

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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by greg parker on Fri 23 Mar 2012, 11:52 am

Lee David Farley wrote:Blue38 not giving any specifics about Lee Oswald's motive, Greg? Given the totality of evidence I'd also like to hear about Oswald's means and opportunity as well.

I'd like to be proven wrong, Lee, but I think Blue38 only came here because for some reason only he himself could try and explain, he seems to believe all on the conspiracy side have a thing about Mr Zapruder.

I don't think I've even mentioned Zapruder here anywhere - and this thread sure as hell has nothing to do with him - yet apparently that is all Blue28 wanted to discuss - taking it from the angle that I have to have the same beliefs he - rightly or wrongly - ascribes to others.

I hope he is not on another forum complaining that I have blocked him, because that has not happened. I answered all his questions, and I'd like to have him answer mine.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Posts : 3459
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Re: Opportune Opening (Marxist Marines Only need Apply)

Post by Guest on Sat 24 Mar 2012, 9:38 pm

greg parker wrote:
Lee David Farley wrote:Blue38 not giving any specifics about Lee Oswald's motive, Greg? Given the totality of evidence I'd also like to hear about Oswald's means and opportunity as well.

I'd like to be proven wrong, Lee, but I think Blue38 only came here because for some reason only he himself could try and explain, he seems to believe all on the conspiracy side have a thing about Mr Zapruder.

I don't think I've even mentioned Zapruder here anywhere - and this thread sure as hell has nothing to do with him - yet apparently that is all Blue28 wanted to discuss - taking it from the angle that I have to have the same beliefs he - rightly or wrongly - ascribes to others.

I hope he is not on another forum complaining that I have blocked him, because that has not happened. I answered all his questions, and I'd like to have him answer mine.

I wouldn't hold your breath for any answers, Greg. Looks like he disengaged when you didn't start arguing with him.

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