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    greg parker
    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 11:46 am
    Milo at the Deep Foo wrote:Mr. Parker offered a defense and an iteration of facts at ROKC. When he links the facts to supporting documentation by footnoting them individually it will be time to take another look at his thesis. I'm not about to research the list of sources provided in the essay to speculate on what they actually support.

    Wow!

    Can you imagine a Knight of Olde being handed a bagful of evidence about where to find the Holy Grail and tossing it aside because it wasn't laid out in the manner he demands? 

    Of course not. Mr Reech is utilizing a Nutter-style excuse for avoiding evidence which would ruin his conspiracy theory which seems to be based around a Rorschach Test (Badge Man) and the very late hearsay evidence of a 90 year old on the verge of dementia.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



    https://www.thenewdisease.space
    Mick Purdy
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 12:04 pm
    greg parker wrote:McBride interviewed Edgar Tippit in the early 1990s. What Edgar related to him was said to have been told to Marie Tippit by another cop... it is all hearsay coming from a 90 year old who McBride claims was "sharp" because, you know - CONSPIRACY - or at least certainly not based on any known criteria for determining memory function.  Yet so confident in the words of Edgar was McBride that he never bothered going and interviewing Edgar's source - Marie. 

    McBride is a source that renders my thesis as "fiction"? 

    What are the worst of the worst conspiracy theories in the JFK case? Those that are top-heavy reliant on dubious witnesses.

    My thesis does not rely on such dubious/late arriving witnesses. 

    It is a fact that Decker and Fritz were exceptionally close to WO Banksoton and that Bankston was named by Chicago Mob representative Jones in secretly recorded interviews as being a go-between to fences (movers of stolen goods).

    It is a fact that Decker and Bankston were instrumental in getting an early release and pardon for Floyd Hamilton, formerly of the Barrow Gang and an expert in B & E and car theft.

    It is a fact that Bankston gave Hamilton a job as night security at his car dealership.

    It is a fact that Hamilton took local young parolees under his wing under cover of "charity"

    It is a fact that Helen Markham was a cousin to Floyd but actually raised as his sister

    It is a fact that Helen's son James was part of a local gang doing B and E's and stealing cars and was himself on parole

    It is a fact that Helen Markham as well as two of James' fellow gang members, were Tippit witnesses

    It is a fact that Helen Markham was hysterical after the murder and again when required to view a line-up - yet given her background, none of this should have fazed her in the slightest.

    It is a fact that Fritz met Decker straight after Fritz left the TSBD for a meeting - the subject of which was never revealed

    It is a fact that Mrs Oswald, along with Mark lane and a reporter, tried to interview Helen Markham but instead spoke to James.

    It is a fact that it would later falsely be claimed it was not James, but his brother William who talked to them.

    It is a fact that soon after this talk, the police showed up to arrest James for breach of parole and that James at that time, broke his leg after falling through a second floor window.

    It is a fact that Fritz never accepted a number of offers of promotion. 

    It is a fact that Potts testified to being told by Harwood that Tippit was killed "on a disturbance cal" which fits in precisely with Jackson's 1967 comment that he received a call sheet on a disturbance and tried to contact Tippit. 

    It is a fact that there is a gap in the police tapes where Jackson may have actually sent Tippit to investigate such a call. 

    It is a fact that gang member William Smith testified he was scared he might end up in jail by coming forward as a witness.

    Given all of these facts, my conjecture that Decker and Bankston got Floyd out of jail specifically to act as a kind of Fagin figure for the local gang is reasonable - as is the premise that Mentzel, Decker and Fritz (and possibly others) were getting kickbacks from the proceeds of this operation - thus Fritz's refusal to take a promotion. He needed to stay in Robbery and Homicide to stay in the loop. 

    The meeting Decker called with Fritz, I surmise, was to tell him that Helen Markham would cooperate by fingering Oswald as the Tippit killer or else James would be going back to prison. Thus Helen's hysteria. Oswald had to be scapegoated for it because any real investigation from any other agency would soon uncover the cozy little deal they had going.James talking to Marguerite and others then landed him in trouble - and on the driveway from two floors up. 

    Note that I don't rely on late arriving witnesses, witnesses on the verge of dementia, or real folk tales about Badge Man, and secret plots to find Oswald and/or ambush Tippit... all of which are necessary for the purpose of finding a conspiracy - no matter the cost to the truth. Conspiracy at all and any cost is the motto of those like McBride - and apparently Mr Reech.

    There was no conspiracy to have Tippit and/or Mentzel find Oswald. There was no conspiracy to ambush Tippit and frame Oswald for it.

    There was a conspiracy to cover up the identity of the real killer or killers in order to protect a nice revenue stream. 

    Had the assassination not happened, Mentzel would have been called to the disturbance and no murder would have taken place - given that Mentzel would have been one of those on the take from this gang. Tippit got killed because he was unknown to the gang members and they feared going to jail for any breaches of parole or other court orders. Poor dumb cop, indeed.
    Outstanding!
    Both Sims and Boyd who accompanied Fritz on his way over to Decker's office were both made to wait in the hallway whilst Decker met with Fritz. Fritz had been summoned to Decker's office even though Fritz's suspect was already seated waiting for him on the 3rd floor at Police HQ's.
    What was so important that could not have been communicated by phone. The meeting between Fritz and Decker at this time should be viewed as suspicious in my view.
    Thanks Greg.
    steely dan
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 3:38 pm
    greg parker wrote:
    Milo at the Deep Foo wrote:Mr. Parker offered a defense and an iteration of facts at ROKC. When he links the facts to supporting documentation by footnoting them individually it will be time to take another look at his thesis. I'm not about to research the list of sources provided in the essay to speculate on what they actually support.

    Wow!

    Can you imagine a Knight of Olde being handed a bagful of evidence about where to find the Holy Grail and tossing it aside because it wasn't laid out in the manner he demands? 

    Of course not. Mr Reech is utilizing a Nutter-style excuse for avoiding evidence which would ruin his conspiracy theory which seems to be based around a Rorschach Test (Badge Man) and the very late hearsay evidence of a 90 year old on the verge of dementia.
    He aint gonna not know what he learned...if he learned it.

    _________________

    You ain't gonna know what you learn if you knew it....... confused


    Checkmate.

    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 06 Sep 2019, 3:58 pm
    That would make him unlearned.
    Bravo Mr. Reech.... whats next,,, associated film study based on viewings of a blind man?
    Ed
    rogerhucek
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sat 07 Sep 2019, 7:29 pm
    greg parker wrote:
    Jake Sykes wrote:As Goban mentioned earlier, I've offered up my basis for thinking that it is entirely possible that the two rare events, JFKA and the murder of a police officer, can easily have occurred together  in time and in placement i.e. both in Dallas on the day and as separated by 40 minutes or whatever, while being unrelated to each other. It doesn't exclude the possibility they were related, but is not evidence to that effect, in and of itself.

    I do take seriously nevertheless the conviction that many including Goban retain that such a coincidence is virtually impossible without a conspiratorial connection. This makes me consider; if these two rare events were indeed unrelated, were the JFKA conspirators motivated to force that connection anyway by virtue of the knowledge that the public would never accept any such randomly occurring scenario?

    Did killing Oswald in the theater really require the Tippet killing? Couldn't the police have all rushed the TT on an APB of the missing TSBD suspect seen entering the TT without Tippet ever happening? I think they could have, but as it turned out had no choice but to make the Tippet murder part of the official story; not out of the desire to bolster their Oswald is the assassin story, but out of necessity in presenting an Oswald is the assassin story that the public would ever accept. The timing and facts of it all are so very forced. Why risk that if they didn't have to, unless of course they felt that they really did have to?
    In reality, the two events are related no matter which scenario you buy into. There is nothing in probability theory that suggests they have to be related by a conspiracy of any sort. 

    WC scenario... if both murders were by the same "Lone Nut", the murders are related.

    If Tippit was murdered to help frame Oswald on JFK, the events are related

    If Tippit was murdered because he was sent in to cover the area due to the assassination draining said area, and the murderer was a parolee and part of a criminal gang that was paying the regular patrolman to turn a blind eye... then the two murders are related because the second would not have happened if not for the first (because the regular patrolman would have answered the call to the fight and the parolee would not have been in danger of being arrested) 

    We all agree that the WC version is crap.

    We all know that the second version is the most popular.

    But for myself and maybe some others here... I just have too many issues with it from studying the actual evidence. 

    In a Tippit ambush plot, why not ambush him in his own patrol area.. why go to the hassle and convoluted scenario of draining the area and then sending Tippit in?

    In a Tippit ambush plot, why would the shells not match the weapon allegedly used (per Hill's original ID of said shells)?

    In a Tippit ambush plot (recalling that the purpose is to frame Oswald) why the snafu with wallets and IDs?

    In a Tippit ambush plot, would you really stage a fight where someone appears to be stabbed and bundled into a car? Would you then disperse and relying on luck that he finds one of you? 

    It's the most haphazard and ill-conceived ambush plot in history...
    At this point I';d argue that anything that clears up the mechanics of how JFK was killed and explains what Oswald thought he was up to is useful, and all the stuff that detracts from that, that goes down wormholes that seem to lead nowhere, is not. We all need to move forward, somehow.

    I'm not prepared to say the Tippit killing was unrelated to the assassination but it does seem useful at least as a thought experiment to treat it as such.

    What does anybody have on J.D. Tippit? Maybe he was unknowable for the same reason that any random person with no achievements is... There's not much to know. So he worked part-time at a barbecue owned by a klansman... That's a pretty thin connection to the far-right to go on, especially given the context of Dallas, a very right-wing city. I think the overall choice of the city of Dallas says more about the plot to kill JFK than any very vague, six degrees of separation political connections of what appears to be a very unpolitical, unremarkable person, J.D. Tippit.

    The idea that he would be killed just to give the Dallas PD some urgency to apprehend or kill Oswald does seem really dubious. I was glad to see that pointed out.

    The idea of the Tippit murder being "the Rosetta stone" of the case is, ironically, Warren Commission lone nutter crap being repeated by the ostensible opposition to the official story. What if this stone is gibberish? It's worth considering.
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sat 07 Sep 2019, 7:48 pm
    Tippit files from Malcolm Blunt’s archives.


    Tippit files from Harry Livingstone's archive‘

    Tippit 1
    Tippit 2
    Tippit 3
    Johnie Maxie Witherspoon

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    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 4:06 pm
    At this point I';d argue that anything that clears up the mechanics of how JFK was killed and explains what Oswald thought he was up to is useful
    Mechanics courtesy magicians. Literally.

    The only doppelganging worth considering. Buildings. One until earlier in the year, home to the TSBD, the other, the current home to it.  

    Magician -- Harold Byrd. Literally.

    The trick -- every magician knows... diverting attention. Two buildings, various stairs and elevators, rooms, exits, dumb waiters and conveyor belts. And plenty within those buildings to rely on.

    Oswald... into CAP anti-subversion program via Ferrie (at arms length for FBI inside US and CIA outside)... includes being a courier and informer...still in program in 1963... placed in TSBD on pretext of taking over watching Joe Molina from the now exposed FBI informant-infiltrator Bill Lowery.  In reality, he is being put in place as potential patsy on a JFK ambush.


    , and all the stuff that detracts from that, that goes down wormholes that seem to lead nowhere, is not. We all need to move forward, somehow.
    Unless you're 95% of the community. In that case, the whole purpose is exploring old and creating new wormholes. It is an exhilarating race to the bottom.


    I'm not prepared to say the Tippit killing was unrelated to the assassination but it does seem useful at least as a thought experiment to treat it as such.
    More than useful, I would say.


    What does anybody have on J.D. Tippit? Maybe he was unknowable for the same reason that any random person with no achievements is... There's not much to know.
    WW 2 vet with what we would now call PTSD.  Looking at his police file and various reports used in the entry process, I am amazed he got in, but not surprised at all at his lack of promotion. 

    What else we know is that he and a partner killed a man named Garland in a bar on a disturbance call.  According to the official story, when they tried to take him into custody, he pulled a pistol and attempted to shoot Tippit in the head, but the weapon failed to fire (a similar story was related regarded Oswald’s arrest). Tippit and Hankins, then drew their service revolvers and shot and killed Garland. I have a statement by a former Dallas cop that they all had throwdown weapons. None of them worked. This in my opinion, a throwdown, as was the pistol Oswald alleged had. That's why the shells found at the Tippit site didn't match. 


    So he worked part-time at a barbecue owned by a klansman... That's a pretty thin connection to the far-right to go on, especially given the context of Dallas, a very right-wing city.
    Exactly. Maybe if he wore a white sheet occasionally, there might be a different context.

    I think the overall choice of the city of Dallas says more about the plot to kill JFK than any very vague, six degrees of separation political connections of what appears to be a very unpolitical, unremarkable person, J.D. Tippit.
    Dallas chosen because DP the perfect magician's table (complete with it's own magician) and DPD/Dallas Justice system an ideal delivery system.


    The idea that he would be killed just to give the Dallas PD some urgency to apprehend or kill Oswald does seem really dubious. I was glad to see that pointed out.
    If that was the plan, they chose the wrong Tippit. The other one was the popular one.


    The idea of the Tippit murder being "the Rosetta stone" of the case is, ironically, Warren Commission lone nutter crap being repeated by the ostensible opposition to the official story. What if this stone is gibberish? It's worth considering.
    It is an enticing proposition that it was part the plot, made look plausible by, as noted by some here, the timing and statistical probabilities, so I hardly blame anyone for jumping on board. 

    But for me, the actual evidence that is used to support it, does not bear scrutiny. Nor does the untidiness of planting a weapon that did not match the shells found, make any sense in the context of a plot.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    Vinny
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 7:56 pm
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Canvas10
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    Vinny
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 7:58 pm
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Screen58
    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 10:26 pm
    Vinnie, I don't know where you got that, but according to this report, Tippit and his partner were called to the bar to deal with a drunk (Garland).

    What you have makes it sound like they just did  a spot check.
    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10096&relPageId=125

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 11:33 pm
    Its from Dale Myers' doorstop
    Cheers,
    Ed
    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sun 08 Sep 2019, 11:41 pm
    Ed. Ledoux wrote:Its from Dale Myers' doorstop
    Cheers,
    Ed
    Ah, okay. That explains it.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Thu 12 Sep 2019, 4:51 pm
    Fair play for Milo. He gets a participation Award


    Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
    https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

    The Reiland film wallet did not belong to Callaway.

    Problem 1 -- Warren Reynolds is the witness being interrogated by police in the film, not Callaway. The voiced over narrative has no reference to Callaway.

    Problem 2 -- The passenger with Tippit's gun in Scoggins' cab was not Callaway.

    1. Scoggins did not identify Callaway as the passenger.
    2. Scoggins said the passenger was a young man who looked like a police officer. Callaway was an old-looking 40.
    3. The passenger was unknown to Harold Russell who observed the event. Russell worked across the street from Callaway and must have followed him on Patton to the murder site.
    4. Callaway could not keep a straight story, over time altering the route, eventually putting himself behind the wheel.

    1.1 Reynolds is most assuredly filmed being interviewed. But that is not the part of the film in question. Some time after that, the film is showing a pistol and a wallet, with Reiland calling the pistol the murder weapon and the wallet as belonging to Tippit.

    You are also quite right in saying I was wrong in calling the wallet as belonging to Callaway. When Callaway and Scoggins got back to the Tippit scene, just as Scoggins had already mistaken Callaway for a cop or an agent. Croy now mistook him for a private detective with Scoggins mistaken for a suspect being brought in. The weapon was given to Croy who passed it and Scoggins over  to the other cops (Croy was not officially on duty). The cops would obviously want to search the wallet of Scoggins under those circumstances.

    I had already corrected this here http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1862-the-murder-of-jd-tippit-by-armstrong but forgot to also correct the essay, so thanks for the reminder.

    2.1. Scoggins was never asked to identify anyone but the killer. 

    But Scoggins and Callaway did both give the same story.

    Mr. BELIN. Mr. Scoggins, I started to ask you about the revolver of the policeman when you came and saw him. This was in his holster or on the street?
    Mr. SCOGGINS. It was on the street whenever I saw it.
    Mr. BELIN. Do you know where it was with relation to the policeman's body?
    Mr. SCOGGINS. It was there pretty close to his body, you know, like kind of under his body when they picked him up. It either fell out of his holster or was laying on the ground, one, I don't know which.
    Mr. BELIN. What did you see him do? This man came up and picked up the policeman's gun. He picked it up and said, "Let's go see if we can find him?"
    Mr. SCOGGINS. I thought the man was a kind of police, Secret Service or something, I didn't know, and I take him and we drove around over the neighborhood looking, and I still didn't know what kind--I still thought he was connected with the Police department in some way.
    Mr. BELIN. What route did you take as you drove over the neighborhood?
    Mr. SCOGGINS. I couldn't tell you.
    =================

    Mr. BALL. The pistol was out of the holster?
    Mr. CALLAWAY. Yes, sir; out of the holster, and it was unsnapped. It was on his right side. He was laying with the gun under him.
    Mr. BALL. What did you do?
    Mr. CALLAWAY. I picked the gun up and laid it on the hood of the squad car, and then someone put it in the front seat of the squad car. Then after I helped load Officer Tippit in the ambulance, I got the gun out of the car and told this cabdriver, I said, "You saw the guy didn't you?" He said, yes. I said, "If he is going up Jefferson, he can't be very far. Let's see if we can find him." So I went with Scoggins in the taxicab, went up to 10th, Crawford, from Crawford up to Jefferson, and down Jefferson to Beckley. And we turned on Beckley. If we had kept going up Jefferson, we probably--there is a good chance we would have seen him, because he was headed right towards the Texas Theatre. But then we circled around several blocks, and ended up coming back to where it happened.

    2.2 Scoggins testified that he thought the man was a police officer or Secret Service - because his gung-ho behavior suggested that is what he was. As for describing him as "young", that is the word written SA Ivan D Lee who conducted the interview. Youth is relative. If Scoggins did say it, he himself was 49, so someone 40 would be "young" to him. And how old was Ivan Lee, the person who actually used the word? Scoggins certainly did not use the word in his testimony. 

    2.3 Yes, Callaway was unrecognized by Harold Russell. You assume Russell should have recognized him. Callaway believed he recognized Russell, bit actually got him confused with someone else.

    Mr. CALLAWAY. I hollered to this guy behind--B. D. Searcy.
    Mr. BALL. What did you say to Mr. Searcy?
    Mr. CALLAWAY. I told him to keep an eye on that guy, I says, "Keep an eye on that guy, follow him. I am going to go down there and see what is going on." So I ran, a good hard run, from here down around the corner.
    ---
    Mr. BALL. Did you ever ask Searcy if he followed him?
    Mr. CALLAWAY. He didn't follow him. He said something about "Follow him, hell. That man will kill you. He has a gun." So instead of following him, he went back over and got behind the office building.

    2.4 Anyone who keeps their story straight over a lengthy period of time is recalling a script, not a real event. This has been demonstrated in experiments time and time again, so what you hold against Callaway is actually a sign that he was honest,even if mistaken in various iterations of his story.

    I will get to the other stuff when time allows.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 12:45 pm
    Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
    https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

    The Disturbance Call
    If one is willing to accept Murray Jackson's statement that he received a disturbance call, there is no reason to attribute the call to either Davis woman. For many reasons they were dubious witnesses, discussed at length by Don Willis last century. Check the wayback machine for acorn.net archives.
    I never attributed it to Barbara Davis. I ruled her out on the basis that what she described to the police would not be deemed a "disturbance" call by them. Whether or not she was a dubious witness is just a red herring. There is no doubt she made a call and that the call was about something far more serious than a mere "disturbance" (of the peace).  

    L.J. Lewis made a call from 500 E. Jefferson that might have been classified as a disturbance. He reported gunshots in "the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue." Note: gunshots, not a murder. This call could have been the source of the disturbance callout sheet.
    I conducted a little experiment by trying to find an example anywhere of gunshots being deemed a "disturbance" call.  I checked hundreds of stories and find one - a single example. https://www.valleynewslive.com/content/news/Police-perimeter-set-up-in-south-Fargo-460202603.html

    Lots of examples of gunfire heard AFTER the police arrive at the scene funnily enough. Also some examples of disturbance calls about people with knives - which I believe was the basis for one version of the putative disturbance call here.

    But anyway, on the basis of that one example, I'll grant that it is a remote possibility it was Lewis. But only if his second version of the timing of the call as being "immediately" after the shooting is correct, rather than his initial version where he is involved in a lot of activity prior to making the call.

    However, the earliest information regarding a disturbance call, to me, is the most telling, and that remains Potts being asked by Harwood soon after the shooting if he had heard "about Tippit getting killed?" with Harwood further explaining that as he understood it "he got killed on a disturbance call over in Oak Cliff." In any real investigation by the WC, it would have tried to obtain Harwood's version of that discussion. But of course they never. It was a can of worms.

    FBI reports are stylistically curious, consisting of paraphrases, summations & indirect quotations, lending themselves readily to content distortion & subject matter mutilation, as follows.

    Original interview (1/21/64) report:

    L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas. Approximately one minute later he observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hands, and while running was either attempting to reload same or conceal the weapon in his belt line.

    Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Street, Dallas, Texas, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson, at which time LEWIS advised he went into the office of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars and called the Dallas Police Department to advise them of the fact that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue.

    LEWIS advised PAT PATTERSON and WARREN REYNOLDS attempted to follow the individual, and to the best of his knowledge, HAROLD RUSSELL had gone in the direction of Tenth and Patton Avenue to determine what had happened. LEWIS advised he later was informed that a Dallas uniform police officer had been shot at the intersection of Patton and Tenth Street in Dallas, and that in all probability the individual they had seen running south on Patton Avenue with a gun in his possession was the individual responsible for same.

    LEWIS was shown a photograph of LEE HARVEY OSWALD, New Orleans PD No. 112723, dated August 9, 1963, at which time Mr. LEWIS advised due to the distance from which he observed the individual he would hesitate to state whether the individual was identical with OSWALD.

    Affidavit 8/26/64:

    I have been shown the written report of the results of this interview of January 21, 1964, by Special Agents John T. Kesler and Vernon Mitchem of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. While this report is substantially correct, I wish at this time to make the following clarifications in regard to the last sentence in paragraph one and the entirety of paragraph two.

    "Upon hearing the shots and recognizing them as gunshot sounds, I immediately called the Dallas Police Department to report a shooting. There was so much confusion at the Police Department end of the telephone conversation, they were having trouble making out what I was telling them. A few minutes later, I observed a white male, approximately thirty years of age, running south on Patton Avenue, carrying either an automatic pistol or a revolver in his hand, and while running was either attempting to reload same or attempting to conceal the weapon in his belt.

    "Upon reaching the intersection of Patton Avenue and Jefferson Boulevard, the individual then proceeded west on Jefferson Boulevard."

    I have read this written report and with the exception of the aforementioned clarifications, it reveals a correct report of what I saw on November 22, 1963.

    Note the correction to the sequence of events. It also erases the silly description "that the shooting had just occurred just north of the intersection of Jefferson and Patton Avenue." Lewis actually reported that the shooting occurred in "the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue," which is the intersection of the 400 block of 10th and Patton.

    The record is replete with examples of materially altered testimony. Anyone who intends to take a stand based on what does or does not appear in an FBI report must sift the content very carefully or risk falling victim to a cruel hoax.

    This will come up again.
    I'm sure it will. It is a mainstay of conspiracy theorists to insist that documents have been altered for nefarious reasons without the slightest hint of actual evidence. This is not to say that some documents were not altered. Some perhaps even nefariously. But there is no evidence of that here.

    Lots of witnesses in the case were re-interviewed regarding their original statements and asked if they stood by them, or if there was anything they would like to change or add.

    The WC also offered witnesses the chance to read transcripts and ask for changes to anything they were not happy with.  That was the right and proper thing to do.

    Lewis chose to make a change to his original statement. So did Paterson. And it was the WC that requested that they be re-interviewed by the FBI.
    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=59637&search="L.J._Lewis"#relPageId=112&tab=page 

    Others such as Harold Russell stood by the first interview.
    https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=41&relPageId=604  

    None of this though, has anything to do with whether or not there was a disturbance call to which Tippit was summoned. It seems pretty much like another red herring.

    _________________
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     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
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    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 5:26 pm
    Found this in a police mag,

    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree241
    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:18 pm
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree243
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree242

    There was a club in that area of Tenth and Patton.
    Goes to Tippit's mo of cruising for drunks.
    Even the corner stop sign was run down by a possible drunk driver, or 'just an accident.'
    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:24 pm

    Money troubles for Tippit
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree244.

    How does everyone, supervisors, cops listening to the radio dispatches, dispatchers, even RC Nelson, none know why JD was there... really!

    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree246
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree245
    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 6:51 pm
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree247
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree248


    As Hurt says it is odd that they the cops need to wait to hear the recordings before they themselves knew.
    oh and the sixty cycle breaks in the background noise or hum are discovered. Possibility raised that the dictabelt was copied and bits inserted or deleted before copying. It would not be something new under the sun.

    Cheers, Ed
    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 13 Sep 2019, 7:10 pm
    The reinterview request and follow up for Lewis.
    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree249

    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Scree250

    Cheers,Ed
    Mick Purdy
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 10:03 am
    Quoting from a 1967 interview with dispatcher Murray Jackson:


    We had received a call from a citizen. They called us on the telephone and the call sheet came - came to me and there was a disturbance in street in the 400 block of East 10th.


    We know that someone has telephoned into Dallas Police around or just prior to 1.00pm for the above call.
    This radio dispatch call to 78 was made between 1:02:00pm 1:02:30pm. This call to 78 is claimed to have been erased from the recording. 
    That 30 seconds probably included Tippit's response to dispatch. That's important




    excerpt from a letter written to Joachim Joesten concerning a Shirley Martin interview with Hugh Aynesworth, Dallas Morning News reporter.

    The unknown citizen’s call at 1:02 or 1:03 does not appear in the transcript of police radio messages. 


    On the audio recording at precisely 1:02 there is 30 seconds of noise, indicating an erasure. 


    About a minute later, at 1:03, the dispatcher attempted to reach Tippit and got no response.






    Dispatcher to Tippit at 12.54pm

    "you'll be at large for any emegency that comes in"

    Tippit reports he is at Lancaster and Eighth.


    Tippit was killed not more than 3 1/2 blocks away near 10th and Patton St. sometime after the last communication back to base at 12.54pm.



    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Tippit10
    Ed. Ledoux
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 12:55 pm
    Nice work! Mick this stuff just boggles the mind.
    How the flimsy tales of Tippits travels have persisted, Its hogwash, you show it perfectly.
    Besidss,
    Why would Helen Markham call anyone, especially a relative and get caught up in a long conversation... rather than leaving at her normal time which did not include stopping on the way out the door to ring her daughter, etc.

    No matter, she still gave a time that fits Mick.

    BALL. You left your home to go to work at some time, didn't you, that day?
    Mrs. MARKHAM. At one.
    Mr. BALL. One o'clock?
    Mrs. MARKHAM. I believe it was a little after 1.

    She took maybe a couple minutes to get to the murder scene.... claims she waited on traffic at the corner,,, and spots Tippits car, spots it in the middle of the intersection, a lil in front wasthe man, but she's standing on the corner, how does she miss a man and a patrol car crossing inftont of her as she is walking to or stopped at the corner.

    its almost as if Tippit came up Patton and turned on Tenth, then backs in toward the curb at an angle you CAN NOT get from simply pulling over towards the curb.
    The timing and other elements put Tippit at the scene soon after 1pm not at the quarter hour.
    Our threads here give No Quarter.

    Helen used a phony phone csll to delay her supposedly late departure after 1... please.
    It appears as tho she was puddy for the police.

    Hence her talking to Mark Lane, she thought he was Will Fritz....
    Cheers, Ed
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Sat 14 Sep 2019, 6:49 pm
    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 12:21 am
    Milo Reech @ the Foo wrote:Tippit: An Alternative Solution
    https://www.thenewdisease.space/tippit

    Five witnesses saw Tippit at Gloco, and their presence is fatal to the alternative thesis. Undermining them is no easy task, and straining to make innocuous things look sinister requires the reader to let go of reality and countenance a nutty conversion of a busy gas station into a baleful rumor mill.

    No, MIlo, 5 witnesses belatedly claimed to see Tippit at the GLOCO - and not to law enforcement but "researchers" trying to connect Tippit, Ruby and Oswald. 


    The Ramparts article says Turner was 'acting on a tip from "sleuth" David Lifton.' No idea why this is suspicious. If more information was desired Turner could have been reached before 12/26/15. Lifton is still alive, posts at EF and perhaps elsewhere. Drop him a line, using a surrogate if necessary.
    Lifton? LOL Mr. Lifton once claimed there were snipers hidden in fake trees. No further information needed.


    The gas station was not in Tippit's assigned district, but Tippit spent so much time at 410 E. 10th Charlie Virginia Davis thought he lived there, telling WC Tippit's police car "was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he lives in and the house next door."

    He it is:

    Mrs. DAVIS. It was parked between the hedge that marks the apartment house where he lives in and the house next door.


    Mr. BELIN. Was it on your side of East 10th or the other side of the street?





    Note how Belin was startled by that comment and went off the record? 

    No?

    Note how Belin carefully questioned her about that statement?

    No?

    Then maybe it was a mistranscription. I mean, who actually says ""where he lived in"?  But conspiracies do not recognize human error because this causes too many issues to the narrative carefully being constructed from such errors, over-eager witnesses, and complete misreadings of other records.


    Scoggins "used to see him every day."
    So he said.

    And I am sure he was sincere and I am sure he saw a cop nearly every day in that area because a cop was assigned to that area.  It just wasn't Tippit.



    The idea that calling in a false location was risky in the days before GPS is hilarious, but it would hardly matter to Tippit one way or the other. Page one says "errors in judgment may be expected."
    It mattered to the Police Dept.

    You have Tippit practically living at that street and out of his area almost daily on the basis of to comments - one which appears to be an error in transcription and one being based on - "I see a cop here in the area every day. This cop is in the area and he has been shot therefore he must be the cop I see every day."

    The absurdity has nothing to do with GPS or how much Tippit cared, but the fact that you are prepared to believe he was spending mor time with whoever at that address than he spent with his wife and family and spent more time out of his own district than inside it and no one no one noticed and no one cared.


    As for the FBI interviews of Mullins & Lewis, the absence of Tippit's name from the reports is meaningless. There is no reason to assume they were comprehensive. Maybe the witnesses mentioned Tippit in conversation, maybe they didn't, and that's all there is to that. See the preceding post for more on FBI reports.
    Yes, that's right. Ignore the fact that it was claimed that none of them were ever interviewed by officials. Ignore that they were interviewed because they were helping to spread gossip about Ruby and Oswald being GLOCO customers - yet no scuttlebutt about Tippit not only being a customer -- but my god, being there that very day and appearing to be keeping a lookout before taking off in the direction of Ruby's apartment.  I mean, as interesting anecdotes, it doesn't get much better than that! But not a peep out that to customers and not a peep about it to the FBI.

    Your response is risible that they "may" have said something because-because we all know about the FBI documents. You just can't trust them. Unless they can be twisted to support your idiotic theories.

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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    Vinny
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 5:53 pm
    because we all know about the FBI documents. You just can't trust them. Unless they can be twisted to support your idiotic theories.


    This seems similar to the Harvey and Lee gang. They too claim that the FBI records were faked except when it supports their theory.
    greg parker
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    Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer  - Page 4 Empty Re: Why Officer Tippit Stopped His Killer

    on Fri 20 Sep 2019, 7:38 pm
    Vinny wrote:because we all know about the FBI documents. You just can't trust them. Unless they can be twisted to support your idiotic theories.


    This seems similar to the Harvey and Lee gang. They too claim that the FBI records were faked except when it supports their theory.
    bingo

    _________________
    Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
    I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
    While looking down the corridor
    Out to where the van is waiting
    I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

                Billy Bragg
    -----------------------------
     Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
                 Lachie Hulme            
    -----------------------------
    The Cold War ran on bullshit.
                  Me

    The menu is not the meal” Alan Watts
    "He who takes offense when no offense is intended is a fool, and he who takes offense when offense is intended is a greater fool." Brigham Young
    "
    For evil deeds may better than bad words be borne." Spenser
     



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