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Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

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Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by greg parker on Tue 14 Aug 2012, 11:47 am

As shown by Mark Groubert, Nancy Perrin Rich became Mrs Hamilton when she married ex NSA/CIA Bill Hamilton.

Mark Lane interviews the newly wed Nancy Perrin Rich - now Hamilton.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SsnhT3cdEM

Bill and Nancy and the INSLAW affair
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inslaw

It is a story weaves its way through corruption, conspiracy, espionage and affiliations with government/agencies and corporations such as IBM.

Nany Perrin Rich actually mentions IBM in her WC testimony, but then withdraws the comment...

Mr. HUBERT. Have you had any other type of training?
Mrs. RICH. Depending on what you mean--formal education--meaning book learning?
Mr. HUBERT. Well, yes.
Mrs. RICH. No.
Mr. HUBERT. Or other types of training, such as stenography?
Mrs. RICH. IBM, and police investigation.
Mr. HUBERT. What about the IBM aspect? Did you study that?
Mrs. RICH. I made a misquotation. It would be Remington Rand, actually.

How she could misremember being trained by IBM instead of Remington Rand is beyond me, unless she had dealings with both companies and somehow got confused about what she did with which.

Another area this story detours through is the Iran-Contra Affair - which happens to have been an affair in which Col L Robert Castorr also played a minor role.

Castorr is without any doubt, the colonel mentioned by Nancy during her WC testimony:

Mrs. RICH. At the first meeting there were four people present. There was a colonel, or a light colonel, I forgot which. I also forget whether he was Air Force or Army. It seems to me he was Army. And it seems to me he was regular Army. There was my husband, Mr. Perrin, myself, and a fellow named Dave, and I don't remember his last name. Dave C.--I think it was Cole, but I wouldn't be sure.

-----

Mrs. RICH. Well, we got there and at that time there was the colonel and another middle-aged woman, kind of a real old granite face I would describe her, steel-gray hair. Looked rather mannish. And there was a rather----
Mr. HUBERT. Did you know her name?
Mrs. RICH. No; I was introduced. Names were mentioned around. I don't recall it. And then there was another rather pugnacious-looking fellow, who looked at though he might have been an ex-prizefighter.
Mr. HUBERT. Were you introduced to him?
Mrs. RICH. I was introduced to everyone.
Mr. HUBERT. Who else was there?
Mrs. RICH. The colonel, the woman, and the prizefighter type, a couple of other men that just kind of sat off in the corner. One of them looked rather dark, like he might have been Cuban or Latin American, and Dave, my husband, and myself.
Mr. HUBERT. Tell us what happened at that meeting.
Mrs. RICH. Well, apparently from what I could discern, they had some kind of a hitch in their plans. And at that time I point blank spoke up and said, "Well, suppose we discuss the plans in full before we"--meaning my husband and myself--"get into this. I would like to know what we are getting into. And at this point you know by now I certainly have a say in this matter." Then it came out-- boom---quite blank. We were going to bring Cuban refugees out---but we were going to run military supplies and Enfield rifles in.
Mr. HUBERT. Who made that statement?
Mrs. RICH. I believe it was the Latin-looking fellow that first made the statement. But the colonel clarified it. The colonel seemed to be the head of it and seemed to do all the talking.
Mr. HUBERT. He was in uniform?
Mrs. RICH. Yes; he was.
Mr. HUBERT. Could you describe what the colonel looked like?
Mrs. RICH. Vaguely. I would say approximately 45 to 50, perhaps a little younger. He was kind of bald, and that may have made him look older. As I recall, a rather slightly built man--and I would not swear to it.
Mr. HUBERT. Did he have any other characteristics?
Mrs. RICH. Not that I can recall, sir.
Mr. HUBERT. Was he in summer uniform?
Mrs. RICK. Yes; he was.

The slightly built Castorr and his "mannish" wife at Buckingham Palace
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/gallery/ASSASSIONATION/JFK-WITNESSES-SUSPECTS/Col-L-Robert-Castorr-and-wife-pic_12.htm

I would like to try and work out what - if anything - all this means in terms of the assassination and ongoing cover-up.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by Guest on Fri 26 Jul 2013, 8:26 pm

Maine, Marriages, 1892-1996 about Nancy E Perrin
Name:     Nancy E Perrin
Gender:     Female
Spouse's Name:     Stuart R Hamilton
Spouse's Gender:     Male
Marriage Date:     1 Mar 1966
Marriage Place:     Maine, USA
Certificate:     912

Guest
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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by greg parker on Fri 26 Jul 2013, 11:16 pm

Tom Scully wrote:Maine, Marriages, 1892-1996 about Nancy E Perrin
Name:     Nancy E Perrin
Gender:     Female
Spouse's Name:     Stuart R Hamilton
Spouse's Gender:     Male
Marriage Date:     1 Mar 1966
Marriage Place:     Maine, USA
Certificate:     912
Tom,

Thanks for the correction. I have been trying unsuccessfully to find Mark's emails to me, but they seem to have "expired". IIRC, Mark didn't have Mr H's first name. I don't have access to genealogical sites, and don't need it since I have two people who are skilled at that stuff I can call on for help, but in any case, I didn't think this required such a check. Nancy's background, her possible past connection to IBM and lastly what I considered her strong likeness to the "Nancy Hamilton" married to Bill all convinced me Mark had not been in error. You can see the two Nancy's side by side here http://www.reopenkennedycase.net/mark-groubert-collection.html

I make no apologies for trusting Mark. His work is often outstanding.

As I was looking around for anything else on the web Mark may have written about this, I came across a post of yours at the ed forum: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20165&page=6 (post # 86). This post corrects the Nancy Hamilton information and goes on to suggest that the woman seen with Castorr in the Buck Palace photo was not the same woman he was married to in 1961 when he was at meetings with Ruby and Rich. You did not provide any cite to back this up, but you have prompted me to search it out and you are correct insofar as he was indeed married twice. That doesn't necessarily prove anything.  What it does  demonstrate is that he seemed to be attracted to "mannish" women. There should be no doubt that it was he at those meetings and there is no doubt as to how Rich described the woman with him. Do you know as a fact that this woman was his first wife? Could it not be possible he was having an affair with the woman he would marry later on?

You described this thread in your ed forum post as "crap" while making some point on a specific lack of fact checking in amongst some larger, general point about "spokespersons" or something or other. But you yourself failed to "fact-check" that it really was his first wife at those Ruby meetings. And there is  no way you could fact-check such a thing. But that didn't stop you claiming an error on my part.

I have been oblivious to that thread until now, and I would have appreciated some heads up on it back when. 

I will of course, make all necessary corrections. 

But I will leave you with this thought: the fact that you source much of your material from genealogy sites and old newspapers does not shield you from error. Ancestry.com for example, is riddled with erroneous information - and newspaper reportage varies markedly in quality. If we truly were to make the effort to stay error free, very little would ever get posted for discussion - because it is not that easy to take away all uncertainty dealing with facts. 

My position is simple - there has to be a balance between too little fact-checking - and so much fact checking that progress is ground to a halt. 

In my world, mistakes can and do occur. So does a lot of progress. Mistakes can always be corrected, but lost time doesn't come again.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 6:20 am

Greg,

The name of Castorr's wife was Dorothy Vasco Castorr.

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/washingtonpost/obituary.aspx?n=dorothy-vasco-castorr&pid=97136101&fhid=2167#fbLoggedOut

I think she was the same wife with him at Buckingham palace.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 7:58 am

Hasan, yeah... but what Tom is saying is that she wasn't his wife at the time Ruby and Castorr were at meetings together and therefore I was wrong in identifying her as the same person.

My point back to Tom was that she may well have not been the same person - but it is a big coincidence that she looks like a drag queen and Nancy Perrin described Castorr's wife as "mannish". In making his point about fact-checking, Tom failed to consider the possibility that  from the early '60s, Castorr was having an affair with the woman who would become his second wife.  Alternatively, both his wives were "mannish" in appearance because there is NO way that he was not the Colonel at those meetings.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 8:07 am

Point taken, Greg.

Hasan Yusuf

Posts : 1779
Join date : 2013-03-13
Age : 28
Location : Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by Guest on Mon 05 Aug 2013, 5:25 am

Lost a long post just now that included an apology to Greg and an explanation of why I used the two threads on this forum as examples in a post several months ago on the Ed Forum. I
took a minimalist approach in my last post in this thread, but I thought Greg's comments and objections to what I had posted at the Ed Forum deserved a reply. I did not copy the long reply I composed here and when I clicked on Preview, a log in screen loaded and my long post was lost.

The devil is in the details and I must disagree with any less emphasis on accuracy for any purpose deemed higher, because of the potential (risk) well described in this example.:

http://dperry1943.com/browns.html
.......
In the mid-90s my son Randy, then in his early twenties, acted as navigator and cameraman for Harry Moses and Gus Russo. They were in Dallas looking into the possibility of a Kennedy assassination television special. Randy videotaped interviews of both Madeleine and grassy knoll "witness" Jean Hill a.k.a. "The Lady in Red." Harry Moses asked Randy what he thought of Madeleine. He replied "I think she’s a nice old woman." Conversely, Randy had little complementary to say about Jean Hill....

Live by the Sword: The Secret War Against Castro and the Death of JFK - Google Books Result
books.google.com/books?isbn=1890862983
Gus Russo - 2010 - ‎Biography & Autobiography
This book owes its existence to veteran producer Harry Moses, who convinced me that my work should have a wider audience. Harry, I hope you were right.....


A 25-year devotion to the Kennedy assassination is paying off ...
articles.baltimoresun.com/.../1993319073_1_russo-kennedy-assassinatio...‎
Nov 15, 1993 - Catonsville resident Gus Russo's interest in the assassination of John F. ... Mr. Russo traveled around the country with producer Harry Moses, ..


Bienstock Clients Making Moves — FTVLive
ftvlive.com/todays-news/2013/3/18/bienstock-clients-making-moves‎
Mar 18, 2013 - HARRY MOSES and GUS RUSSO join N.S. Bienstock and enter into an agreement with NBC News to produce a two hour special. Jim, Eric...


Richard Moses in New Times-Mirror Co. Post

Pay-Per-View -
Los Angeles Times - Feb 18, 1962
Richard C. Moses, 33, has joined The Times-Mirror Co. as director of corporate public relations, a new post. Richard Moses in Neew Times-Mirror Co.

NUPTIALS ARE HELD FOR MISS M'CARGO; Bride Has 9 ...

$3.95 -
New York Times - Sep 16, 1951
... and Edgartown, Mass., was married to Richard Cantrell Moses, son of Mr. and Mrs. Harry Morgan ... In the ... Academy in Andover, Mass., and Yale College.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0564972/bio
Biography for Marian McCargo

Date of Birth
18 March 1932, [url=http://www.imdb.com/search/name?birth_place=Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA]Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, USA[/url]

Spouse
Alphonzo E, Bell Jr.(7 November 1970 - 7 April 2004) (her death)
Richard Cantrell Moses(15 September 1951 - 1963) (divorced) 4 children


Trivia
Mother of Graham Moses, actor William R. Moses, director Harry Moses and actor Rick Moses.




NUPTIALS ARE HELD FOR MISS M'CARGO; Bride Has 9 ...

$3.95 -
New York Times - Sep 16, 1951
The ushers were Morgan Evan Moses, another brother; Hugh RH Smith, Grant McCargo, brother of the bride; Oliver John Anderson, William H, Hanley Jr., Peter ...


CAROLINE MOR6 I5 MARRIED HERE; Bride at S. James' of John...

$3.95 -
New York Times - Oct 22, 1955
... Church yesterday afternoon for the marriage of [Miss Caroline Morgan to John DeWitt Macomber. ...Brother Is Best Man William B. IVfacomber Jr. was [best man for his brother.... The ushers were Robert R. , another brother of the bridegroom; A. Perry Morgan Jr., brother of the bride; Oliver John Anderson, Backer, Thomas . Congdon, William L. Dodge, Thomas Gu/, ......

Davis Wedding Plans .

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette - Sep 6, 1951
Mary Creed Davis and En sign Oliver John Anderson will be married on ... Robert Fowler of SewickIpy, Richard Moses and JohnM, Carroll of Pittsburgh, JohnD.Macomber and Daniel Slocum of Rochester...



Miss Alexandra Mills Is Bride of TJ Devine

$3.95 -
New York Times - Apr 15, 1973
William B. Macomber Jr., United States. Ambassador to Turkey, was best man.

MISS NANCY BUSH BECOMES A BRIDE; She Is Attended by Nine...

$3.95 -
New York Times - Oct 27, 1946
... Nancy Bush, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Prescott Sheldon Bush of Greenwich, to Alexander Ellis Jr., ... William Butts Macomber of Rochester, NY, was best man.

Thomas Gu/ , usher in the Morgan John D. Macomber wedding described above, was


http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=18989
....George Ohrstrom was an usher in Peter Matthiessen's (of the Paris Review and the CIA) wedding, as was the sister-in-law of Richard Ober of CIA. Usher Thomas Guinzburg would later hire Jackie Onassis. He was Matthiessen's Yale roommate and presented as not being witty to Matthiessen's CIA affiliation, but Guinzburg's father was OSS minister of propaganda (OWI) and immediately after WWII led a US intelligence program intended to influence what would and would not be suitable subject matter for publication....

.......The class extends its sympathy to his wife, Allen Dunnington Rosse; his brother, George L. Jr.; his sister Magden O. Bryant; and his six sons.

All of Ricard Riggs Ohrstrom's six sons resulted from his marriage to:

Mrs. Ohrstrom Has Son

New York Times - May 3, 1962
Mrs. Ohrstrom Has Son A son was porn April 28 to Mr. and Mrs. Ricard R. Ohrstrom ... Mary Murchison, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Kenneth Murchison of Dallas, Tax


Now....where was I....? Oh..... L Robert Cartorr as married three times, first to Dorothy Seedorf, then to Gertrude Daugherty, and finally to another Dorothy.... Vasco, circa 1975. In 1963 Dorothy Vasco was a 37 year old Bethesda, MD housewife and mother of three....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40644-2005Apr9_4.html

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/washingtonpost/obituary.aspx?n=dorothy-vasco-castorr&pid=97136101&fhid=2167#fbLoggedOut


Louis R Castorr is the name on L Robert Castorr's findagrave.com entry.

Louis R Castorr (1912 - 2005) - Find A Grave Memorial
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=49165131‎
Mar 5, 2010 - Birth: Nov. 18, 1912. Death: Apr. 7, 2005. On Thursday, April 7, 2005 of Bethesda, MD. He is survived by his wife, Dorothy Vasco Castorr; his ....

By late 1966, Harold Weissberg as made aware of the significance of Col. Castorr because of the WC testimony of Nancy Perrin Rich. Even in the 1990's Weissberg was most concerned with keeping the confidentiality of what he had learned from "Bob and Trudy" Castorr, 25 years earlier.:


https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=jim+marr+castorr&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8#client=ubuntu&channel=fs&sclient=psy-ab&q=jfk.hood.edu+castorr+interview+book&oq=jfk.hood.edu+castorr+interview+book&gs_l=serp.3...25721.35924.13.36224.22.21.0.0.0.0.1784.11975.0j3j10j3j7-1j4.21.0....0...1c.1.23.serp..38.21.7179.-j0Pg7miRns&psj=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.50165853,d.dmg&fp=b19e29e7973e4ff2&biw=1375&bih=775

Search Results

   [PDF]
   Dick Russell 6 Fart Ave. Terrace Boston, PA 02119 Dear Dick, My ...
   jfk.hood.edu/.../Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2008.pdf‎
   Jan 11, 1993 - ... tob Castorr and his wife on page 317 and yoir citation of that interview transcript as your source ... You wore in touch with me several times before your book was published and ... It has been many years since I saw Castorr.

[PDF]
Dick Russeii 6 Fort Terrace Bpston, EA 02119 Lear Dick, Your ...
jfk.hood.edu/.../Castorr%20L%20Robert%20Colonel/Item%2007.pdf‎
Jan 23, 1993 - interview, that none of it be usedwithout the consent of both Castorrs, the first words ... ces of my access to the interview and the deadline pressure I was under with the book. ... from your interview with Bob Castorr and his wife.


I only know of one way to do this work and I cannot change my approach but I will try to be more civil, especially in a place like this forum where I have no doubts of the sincerity and the goals of Greg and his active membership.

One more thing....Ovid Demaris intrigues me in his odd approach almost as much as Weissberg does.... Demaris graduated from the same small town high school in 1937 that Nancy Mathews Perrin Rich Hamilton attended in 1953.


Jack Ruby - Page 246
books.google.com/books?id=Bkl3AAAAMAAJ
Garry Wills, ‎Ovid Demaris - 1968

..Poor Nancy, the Pasionaria of some Warren critics, would hardly deserve mention were it not for Mr. Lane's deft presentation of her as a dire threat to Commission findings. Mr. Lane told us he was very impressed with her and placed great reliance on her memory -- something she must have sensed, for she revealed to him that the apartment at which the Cuba meetings took place had an ammunition depot, "probably half a dozen land mines, and, why, twenty or thirty packing cases of hand grenades." Why did she omit this in her Warren testimony? She did not leave it out -- Mr. Griffin told the reporter to strike it from the record. (Her deposition ends with the question, "Is it not a fact that all that has occurred between you and me in this interview, with Mr. Griffin, is on the record?" To which Nancy answered, "That is correct.")

We tried to talk to Nancy, but her present husband pleaded with us not to do so: "There's a couple of kids involved here." (We respected his wish; that is why we do not use her present name.) But what does he think of his wife's interview with Mark Lane? "Well, I talked to Lane, and I asked him at the time of the interview what he thought of it, and he told me he didn't see how he could use any of it. Then that book comes out." He added that the Warren Commission judged her story better than Mr. Lane did: "She is very nervous and imaginative. Things build up pretty easy like."

Nancy, so anxious to please the cops, so easily used by others, wanting fame and being maneuvered into notoriety, an instrument, now, for attacking Ruby -- she reminds us of Sheriff Decker's words: "I've got two hundred men in that jail; and there's probably another Jack Ruby among them -- one who would take a crack at him to be a hero." It is even more depressing to reflect that there are men ready to prod on and exploit this drab endless series of displaced people who can be duped onto the stage of history. ....

Guest
Guest


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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by greg parker on Mon 05 Aug 2013, 8:26 am

Lost a long post just now that included an apology to Greg and an explanation of why I used the two threads on this forum as examples in a post several months ago on the Ed Forum. I took a minimalist approach in my last post in this thread, but I thought Greg's comments and objections to what I had posted at the Ed Forum deserved a reply. I did not copy the long reply I composed here and when I clicked on Preview, a log in screen loaded and my long post was lost.

I don't need an apology, Tom. You're entitled to point out errors. In fact, that should be one of the reasons these forums exist. But I'll get back to that. I just would have preferred you had addressed it to me - publicly or privately. As posted, it just looks like a "gotcha". You may well feel I deserved it. But you also "got" Mark in the process. Colateral damage.

The devil is in the details and I must disagree with any less emphasis on accuracy for any purpose deemed higher,

Tom, what lengths do you go to check the accuracy of your newspaper copies and pastes? With the methodology you use, one misspelled name, one erroneous "fact", even a misplaced comma could all potentially send you spinning off on all sorts of lost highways.

because of the potential (risk) well described in this example.:

I'm sorry, but your point here is lost on me. Look, I survive on about 4 hours sleep a night. Sometimes I need things spelled out a bit clearer because something like this takes enormous will-power and concentration to take in - and I barely have enough of that for my own research on top of family and business matters. 

Now....where was I....? Oh..... L Robert Cartorr as married three times, first to Dorothy Seedorf, then to Gertrude Daugherty, and finally to another Dorothy.... Vasco, circa 1975. In 1963 Dorothy Vasco was a 37 year old Bethesda, MD housewife and mother of three....

By late 1966, Harold Weissberg as made aware of the significance of Col. Castorr because of the WC testimony of Nancy Perrin Rich. Even in the 1990's Weissberg was most concerned with keeping the confidentiality of what he had learned from "Bob and Trudy" Castorr, 25 years earlier.:

So it was Trudy that would have been his wife in '61?

Perrin Rich didn't name Castorr. Weissberg identified Castorr as the most likely candidate from her descriptions. Which brings me back to her description of the female present - and only presumed to be Castorr's wife:
"Well, we got there and at that time there was the colonel and another middle-aged woman, kind of a real old granite face I would describe her, steel-gray hair. Looked rather mannish." 

Castorr's third wife again - whom you say was a 37 year old Bethesda housewife and mother of 3 in 1963 (we're actually talking about 1961 though)

I still think she fits the description. Maybe all Castorr's wives looked like that because he liked the type? Or maybe as I suggested previously, he was having an affair with Dorothy for a number of years prior to marrying her? Nothing you have said, negates either of those possibilities.

So what was I wrong about? I was wrong in describing the woman as his "wife". She may or may not have been his current  wife, a future wife, his secretary or a mistress.

I was also wrong about Perrin Rich being the person married to Bill Hamilton.

My point in my previous post in this thread was that members of forums shouldn't be held to posting an academic thesis each time they post. Being error-free is something we should aim for, but is it absolutely vital here? No. It's a living resource which can be amended and corrected. And unless you do actually verify each and every "fact' in your newspaper cut and pastes, you're living in a glass house.

I can tell you Tom, my manuscript is going very slowly, due in part to lack of time, but also due in part to trying to ensue it is as error free as I can get it. Because it matters to me, and that is the place to get it right.


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by Guest on Mon 05 Aug 2013, 2:24 pm

Greg,

The point I attempted to make using the example of Gus Russo is that by some influence, his life, stature, fortune seemed to sky rocket after one Harry Moses advised Russo to go "mainstream".

http://www.nytimes.com/1999/05/23/books/books-in-brief-nonfiction-693081.html
Books in Brief: Nonfiction
By Charles Salzberg
Published: May 23, 1999
Live By The Sword

....In December 1991, Oliver Stone released his movie ''JFK,'' about the murder of John F. Kennedy, and as a result of a public outcry, Congress passed the President John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act of 1992, which called for total disclosure by all Federal agencies and private individuals who might be in possession of relevant material. These three million-plus pages proved to be a treasure-trove of information for those interested in the assassination, and Gus Russo has based much of his compelling, exhaustively researched and evenhanded book, ''Live by the Sword,'' on it. Russo has had a longstanding interest in the assassination; he was one of the lead reporters on ''Frontline'' 's 1993 documentary ''Who Was Lee Harvey Oswald?'' and served as the chief investigative reporter for ABC's news special ''Dangerous World: The Kennedy Years.'' After sifting through mountains of evidence and conducting interviews, Russo comes to a simple conclusion: Lee Harvey Oswald killed Kennedy. Russo also maintains that it was Kennedy's obsession with ridding the world of Fidel Castro by any means necessary, including assassination, that resulted in his own death. ......

Greg, you posted earlier in this thread:

http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t215-nancy-perrin-rich-hamilton-promis#2732

.....In my world, mistakes can and do occur. So does a lot of progress. Mistakes can always be corrected, but lost time doesn't come again.....

How similar is the sentiment you expressed (assuming you were saying that there are times
being a stickler for accuracy must temporarily take a backseat to considerations of urgency.....the priority of drawing ASAP attention to the overall theme/message) to the Moses/Russo rationale? Has Russo influenced many more than almost anyone except perhaps Oliver Stone by being a stickler for accuracy?

I posted evidence that Russo "prospered" after coming under the still present influence of Harry Moses, son of a Hollywood star who married a Phillips Andover and Yale educated PR wiz at the Los Anglese Times Newspaper group, a man who just happened to be a close friend of Oliver John Anderson who was a close friend of John D. Macomber who as a close friend of Thomas Guinzberg who was the Yale roommate of Peter Mathiessen of CIA and Plimpton/Train's Paris Review. The Paris Review group included Blair Fuller, stepson of Cass Canstein, the Harper Publisher who was Allen Duller's biographer and presidend over all of the publications of the balanced, mainstream message books, from Manchester's to Priscilla Johnson McMillan's.

The graduates Yale and Harvard classes from '40 to '51 and there surrogates still rule the roost when it comes to staying "on message" concerning the "findings" of the WC.

I have the same sense of urgency as you do, Greg. I think writing a book is a process opposite reasonable reaction to an urgent need to get the facts out. McBride's 31 years of bottled up research speaks to a reasonable reaction to this urgency, how?

Weissberg still keeping close his 1967 taped interviews of Bob and Trudy Castorr well into the 1990's addresses this urgency to get the facts out ASAP?

You cannot keep the facts ASAP when intending to sell them when they come together in a marketable package called a book and you cannot make the publication and promotion of a book less than your top priority without constraining yourself.

To his credit, Jim DiEugenio did not tell me and did not give any indication that his then new book as about to be published by the publisher of Peter Janney's book. It has been difficult enough challenging Janney's version of the facts without the added considerations Jim must have had.

Greg, in the future I will contact you privately instead of posting before giving you the opportunity to react if you elect to.

I have to correct the age in 1963 of Dorothy Vasco, later the third wife of Col. L Robert Castorr. She was 47 years old and not 37, as I had posted.

Getting back on track.:

Harold Weissberg answers a question posed by Jim Garrison:

.pdf page 59
Search Results

[PDF]
grand jury proceedings special investigation - The Harold Weisberg ...
jfk.hood.edu/.../Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/.../Weisberg%2...‎
HAROLD WEISBERG, appeared before the Orleans Parish Grand. Jury on Friday ...... to history with this dubious inquest of this fake investigation Shirley Martin,. a ... shaken by it and Mrs. Castor was a little bit unhappy and he kkay told me ...

Q. Does he say at all that the Col. described Nancy (inaudible)
A. I don't think so but this is one of the things I want to find
out. Now let me tell you, frankly what my relationship with
Col. Castorr has been - I called him up and nobody answered
at home - I'd like to give you my source on this - again, this
whole business of finding anybody who believes that when a
President gets killed and consigned to history with this
dubious inquest of this fake investigation Shirley Martin,. a
57.
housewife, who while taking care of 5 children and a husband,
and house, in Owassa, Oklahoma, was very worried about this
and does her own investigating and I got an anonymous tip,
and after I had written Whitewash II, and I want to give you
my source and everything, but over and above that I want to
give credit where credit is due. I had noticed this business
of Col. Castorr - to the FBI he is Col. Caster (first name unknown),
can you imagine the FBI that hasn't been trained to
ldok at a telephone book, to the Secret Service his name was
Col. Castor, the FBI interviewed Mrs. Elsie Connell, (L C.) who
was a social service worker in Dallas who was interested in
Sylvia Odio, arranged for her to get the medical care she
needed, and Mrs. Connell told the FBI Col. Castor is a
political agent who is keeping the Cuban people stirred up.
Father Machann tells the Secret Service Col. Castor's actions
are consistent with that of an Intelligence Agent. These
things I knew but who Col. Castor was I didn't know until
got in an anonymous tip and I found out later from Shirley
Martin - when I found out where she lived - in Oklahoma - I
wrote her and asked her and she said yes, I just didn't want
to trouble you by giving details so I just didn't sign it.

His name is L. Robert Castorr, he is in the 1963 Dallas phone
book.

Harold Weissberg certainly disappointed Shirley Martin, she wrote (Page 3):

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/M%20Disk/Martin%20Shirley/Item%2017.pdf

Oh, Harold, I cannot believe that you are accepting Castorr's personal protestations.
He is a friend of Walker's, he did live in Dallas in '63, he is the 22.1/ Colonel
Castorr-Caster-Castor listed in theI73 Dallas phone directory: who doll you
imagirie he is if he is not the Colonel Caster-Castor who went about Dallas in '63
with General Walker speaking against the Kennedy Administration to Cuban regugess?
Remember how he avoided you at first? Yet now he is your friend. This is so
curious. Now he is even seeking you out,- visiting you without invitation.
Oh, Harold, you must realize that if he is the Castor-Caster the SS mentioned
(and I am sure he is) t an he most anxious -to be disconnected from this.
e ause
investigation. Not had anything to do with the taxmxidasxmc
assassination, but only because he is connected, with other not-so-nice
right-wing adventures.
Don't - ever he misled by the seeming charm of these people. - I must tell you a
funny story. When I interviewed Robert Surrey, General Walker's aide, and
publisher of the vicious anti-Kennedy WANTED FOR TREASON pamphlets, I was
struck by his charm. He has a soft voice (a little feminine, at times slightly
hysterical), gorgeous blue eyes, and he treated me as though I were Queen
Elizabeth. His blonde, strident-voiced wife brought us lemonade and we were
given a full hour of time, a thousand confidences, a hundred little stories,
soft laughter, attention, the full Southern bit. We left, completely struck by the
man's charm, but of course aware that charm or no this was the man who hated
Kennedy with- s vicious, nearly uncontrollable passion.

No, Harold, Colonel Castorr IS Colonel Caster-Castor. We cannot ask this much
of coincidence. By the smme token, it is important to wonder why Colonel
Castorr really finds it necessary to go to such lengths to deceive you. Has he had
advice - from some branch of the government? His indication that he WANTS to work
with Life shows me that Life is on another of those hush-puppy adventures that
both CBS and NBC have recently indulged in. Castorr has no doubt been assured
by Life that his reputation (and his seer s) are safe with them. After all,
Life is far from a liberal organizatio4prOlestations to the contrary......

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Re: Nancy (Perrin Rich) Hamilton & PROMIS

Post by greg parker on Mon 05 Aug 2013, 4:28 pm

How similar is the sentiment you expressed (assuming you were saying that there are times being a stickler for accuracy must temporarily take a backseat to considerations of urgency.....the priority of drawing ASAP attention to the overall theme/message) to the Moses/Russo rationale? Has Russo influenced many more than almost anyone except perhaps Oliver Stone by being a stickler for accuracy? 
Again, we are NOT on the same wavelength. I was trying to get across that 100% accuracy IS a time consuming process and these boards may as well fold up if it were insisted upon.  That's nothing to do with any "Moses/Russo rationale".

And I stick by what I said -- "lost time doesn't come again". There are different levels, different aims, and some nuances at play. This board is meant to help develop new evidence, and to help keep interest levels up, and maybe even to come up with innovative ways to get this case opened again.  I do not have the same aims as John Simkin - to be a resource for teachers and students.

The fact that I am taking my time with the book is a separate issue. I long ago came to conclude that a forum alone - no matter the quality of the material posted - is not going to make anyone in power sit up and take notice. The critics did it in the 70s without the internet - with books, lectures, media exposure - and got the HSCA. Oliver Stone did it again in the 90s with a movie and got the ARRB.

I feel I will have wasted the last 13 years of my life if I don't have the same impact. My means are limited, so extensive travel is out. I don't have the expertise or money to make a documentary. I think however, I do have a book in me - and I think it will shake a few trees.
You cannot keep the facts ASAP when intending to sell them when they come together in a marketable package called a book and you cannot make the publication and promotion of a book less than your top priority without constraining yourself. 
My top priority is embedded in the name of this forum, Tom. The book is just the means to that end. If you're having some sort of dig about turning this into a commercial venture -- I'm not going to say any money I make on it isn't welcome. I sure as hell don't expect to retire from it. I have spent (for me) a lot of money on research, and I have let my business slide in the process of conducting that research. But is money the reason I'm doing a book? No, it is not. It is the impact that a book can have compared to an internet forum. I am an outcome orientated person, Tom. This isn't a parlour game or hobby for me. I need to see a result on that bottom line. If I fail, at least I'm going down swinging with all I have.

I posted evidence that Russo "prospered" after coming under the still present influence of Harry Moses, son of a Hollywood star who married a Phillips Andover and Yale educated PR wiz at the Los Anglese Times Newspaper group, a man who just happened to be a close friend of Oliver John Anderson who was a close friend of John D. Macomber who as a close friend of Thomas Guinzberg who was the Yale roommate of Peter Mathiessen of CIA and Plimpton/Train's Paris Review. The Paris Review group included Blair Fuller, stepson of Cass Canstein, the Harper Publisher who was Allen Duller's biographer and presidend over all of the publications of the balanced, mainstream message books, from Manchester's to Priscilla Johnson McMillan's. 
How do you know the "prospering" is in any way connected to his 6 degrees of separation from people you find suspicious?

Greg, in the future I will contact you privately instead of posting before giving you the opportunity to react if you elect to.
No need. I was giving you options. I really don't care whether it's public or private. Just so long as it's TO me and not ABOUT me (and stuck in a thread I may or may not ever read).

I have to correct the age in 1963 of Dorothy Vasco, later the third wife of Col. L Robert Castorr. She was 47 years old and not 37, as I had posted.
See? That's how it works. You posted something that was incorrect. It was picked up (in this instance by yourself) and you corrected it.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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