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If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

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If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by greg parker on Sun 04 Oct 2009, 11:53 pm

His Warren Commission testimony may have looked more like this...

BELIN
: What happened after you realised the shot had come from the depository building?

BAKER: I jumped off my bike and ran into the building.

BELIN: What action did you take once inside?

BAKER: Well, there were some folk standing around inside, and I asked them where the stairs were. I had in mind to do a search of the top floor. A man then stepped forward identifying himself as the building
manager, or some such. Anyway, he took me to the back of the building and suggested we take the elevator.

BELIN: Given your certainty that at least one sniper was in the building, is it, let me put it this way, would it be standard procedure to have a civilian lead you on a search where there is potential for gun
play?

BAKER
: No, sir. It was not standard procedure.

BELIN
: Then why, Officer Baker, did you do so on this occasion?

BAKER
: Sir, I was unprepared for such a question. Can we go off the record?

BELIN
: No. I'd like the answer to be on the record. I think that's important.

BAKER
: I was unfamiliar with the layout of the building. Everything was happening so quickly, I didn't stop to think of the danger I might be placing the civilian in. In other words, he offered to show me,
and I accepted.

BELIN
: I think anyone could understand under the circumstances. Please continue. You went to take the elevator up with the building manager. What happened after that?

BAKER
: Well, the elevator was hung a few floors up, so we ended up taking the stairs, after all.

BELIN
: Did you make it to the top right away?

BAKER: Not right away, no. When I got to the third or fourth floor, I saw a man walking away from the stairway. I called to him, and he turned and came back toward me. At that point, the manager informed me that the person worked in the building, so I let him go and continued on to the
top floor.

BELIN: Did it not occur to you that an employee might have been the very sniper you were searching for?

BAKER: No, sir. At least not after the manager vouched for him. Or at least that's how I interpreted what he said. Like he was vouching for him.

BELIN
: I see. Did you later recognise anyone as being the man you encountered?

BAKER
: No, sir.

BELIN: We have a statement from Marvin Johnson, the officer who took your affidavit. Officer Johnson said in that statement, and I quote: "Officer Baker later identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the
man he had seen on the fourth floor of the Texas School Book Depository.
" Is that true, Officer
Baker? Did you identify Oswald as the man you had seen?

BAKER: No, sir. Whilst it is true that Oswald was present at the time I made that affidavit with Officer Johnson, I described the person I had encountered as I remembered him - that was -- he was a
white man, approximately 30 years old, 5'9", weighed about 165, had dark hair, and was wearing a light brown jacket. If that person had been Oswald, I would have recognized Oswald and made sure I included
that identification of the suspect in my affidavit.

greg parker
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by greg parker on Mon 21 Jul 2014, 1:00 pm

bump

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by Guest on Mon 21 Jul 2014, 1:14 pm

Dunno i'm a n00b 'kay

Guest
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by Guest on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 9:22 pm

The "leads" thread says this:

There was no Truly-Baker-Oswald encounter on the second floor. Baker stopped someone other than Oswald on the 3rd or 4th floor (probably the latter), but let him go after Truly vouched for him. This person matched the description of the suspect seen by Rowland and others at a 6th floor window. He also matched the description of Tippit suspect. [board topic, If Baker had stuck to his Original Statement; more can be found on the Education, Lancer and google forums]

Baker says it was a "white man" at the TSBD, but all the pre-assassination witnesses say the man at the window was "dark complected". Some even said he might have been negro.

And, the Tippit suspect supposedly threw away a white jacket.

(Playing devil's advocate). Smile

Guest
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by greg parker on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 9:37 pm

Rowland saw a white male and an elderly black male. 

Baker's description: 30yo, weight 165, height 5'9", dark hair, wearing a grey coat (which he changed to light brown during his testimony). 

Rowland's description: early 30s, weight 140 to 150, dark hair, light coloured shirt or jacket.


Brennan's description: White male, early 30's, slender. fair complected, about 5' 10" and 160 to 170 pounds, light colored clothes

Sounds like all the same guy to me.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Posts : 3451
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by Colin Crow on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:09 pm

Greg,
If we go with LHO= PM then I strongly suspect that Baker did interact with him in the foyer as he rushed in. I would not be surprised the find Truly vouching for Oswald at this point and "taking over" as he was the manager. I think that it was then changed to the third or fourth floor before settling with the second. I have not ruled out a second encounter in the lunchroom after the foyer however.

They key to this is Adams and Styles leaving a minute or so after the shots and not being seen by Baker and 
Truly. There is a 10-15 second unaccounted for delay in the Baker/Truly journey before the will call counter. I believe this was the initial Oswald encounter in the foyer.

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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by greg parker on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 10:42 pm

Colin Crow wrote:Greg,
If we go with LHO= PM then I strongly suspect that Baker did interact with him in the foyer as he rushed in. I would not be surprised the find Truly vouching for Oswald at this point and "taking over" as he was the manager. I think that it was then changed to the third or fourth floor before settling with the second. I have not ruled out a second encounter in the lunchroom after the foyer however.

They key to this is Adams and Styles leaving a minute or so after the shots and not being seen by Baker and 
Truly. There is a 10-15 second unaccounted for delay in the Baker/Truly journey before the will call counter. I believe this was the initial Oswald encounter in the foyer.
Colin,

I must admit, I have flip-flopped over the years regarding any 1st floor interaction. But whether it happened or not, I don't believe it was changed to the third or fourth floor. The description is the giveaway. And making it an optional lie is giving the Baker and/or Truly and the DPD far too much credit for smarts.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Posts : 3451
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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by Colin Crow on Mon 18 Aug 2014, 11:54 pm

Ok, but if Adams and Styles leave before Baker and Truly pass the 4th Floor then it took more than 30 seconds for the foyer encounter and trip to the will call counter. Something else happened that went unreported IMO.

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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by greg parker on Tue 19 Aug 2014, 5:45 am

Colin Crow wrote:Ok, but if Adams and Styles leave before Baker and Truly pass the 4th Floor then it took more than 30 seconds for the foyer encounter and trip to the will call counter. Something else happened that went unreported IMO.
Colin,

I'll take your word for it. When people start talking about various timings based on the available evidence mixed with guesswork, my head starts swimming. 

I believe it was Sean who first floated the idea that the 1st floor encounter was shifted to the third or fourth floor. But I have to respectfully disagree. If that is what happened, then in my opinion, Baker gets the description right AND states in his affidavit that the person under arrest is that very man. To falsify the sighting by shifting it from 1 to 3 or 4 and then describing a different person to Oswald is counter-intuitive.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3451
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

Post by Guest on Wed 20 Aug 2014, 2:44 am

Other than Marrion Baker himself, I spent a little time last night looking through the testimony of "others" who were possibly involved in this incident, including and specifically Roy Truly.

The first thing I can find from truly is a Dallas PD affidavit which was taken on Saturday. http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0487-001.gif

So, if Truly was caught by surprise by the day's events, he had less than 24 hours to frame his "official story".

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Re: If Marion Baker had stuck to his original statement...

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