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Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

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Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 3:51 am

Inspired by the research of both Lee Farley and Duke Lane, I wrote an article on my blog entitled "Gerald Hill and the murder of Officer Tippit", in which I argued that Hill had framed Oswald for the murder of J.D Tippit.

I'm not gonna go into detail here about Hill's complicity, and will leave it up to anyone interested in learning about Hill's suspicious actions following the assassination to read my article on my blog.

On John Simkin's education forum, Duke Lane made the claim that Hill had his arm (almost) handcuffed inside the Texas Theatre, during the scuffle with Oswald. I trust Lane, as I consider him to be an honest researcher, but I have been unable to locate the interview/report in which this claim was made.

The reason I ask is because Officer Ray Hawkins made the claim that Hill had grabbed "Oswald's" revolver during the scuffle; whereas the Official version has it that Officer Bob Carroll did. Keep in mind that Hawkins was the Officer who had pulled out his handcuffs and Cuffed Oswald. Now if it turns out that it was Hill that had his arm grabbed and (almost) handcuffed, and it was Hawkins who had grabbed it, then it would strengthen the case against Hill.

Why would it you ask? Because if Hawkins saw the revolver in Hill's hand inside the dimly lighted Theatre, then he would have grabbed Hill's arm believing it was in fact Oswald's arm. If someone could inform me if a). It was Hill's arm that was grabbed and b). If it was Hawkins who grabbed it, I would greatly appreciate it.


P.S If anyone wants to discuss my article on Hill, I would be more than happy to do so.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 8:14 am

Hi Hasan,

Great to meet you. Glad that you're focussing attention on Gerry Hill. I'll check in with Duke and try and get you the info you require.

I'll also check your article out on your blog. Right now I'm exhausted after a long day at work and an evening trying to get Ralph Cinque's shitty Facebook page closed down. We'll catch up over the next few days.

Lee

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 8:41 am

Hi Mr Farley. Great to meet you too! You have yourself to thank for my interest in Gerald Hill. I think the man is as guilty as hell. I'm a big fan of your research. Let me congratulate you in particular for your work into the phoney bus and cab rides. It's absolutely top notch! After reading through your work on the Ed forum, I have no doubt the bus and cab storys are both bs. I greatly look forward to talking to you on the forum.

Regards,

Hasan.


Last edited by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 4:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 15 Mar 2013, 8:43 am

P.S thank you for taking the time to contact Duke Lane.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 2:29 am

During his WC testimony, Hill claimed that on November the 24th he had flown to San Antonio, Texas:

Mr. BELIN.
Did you have anything to do with either the assassination investigation or the Tippit investigation on Saturday, November 23?

Mr. HILL.
No, sir; I was off that day. And then on Sunday the 24th, I had flown out of Dallas that morning on a Braniff flight to San Antonio with a sergeant from Dallas and captain from Garland and captain from Denison to attend a state board meeting of the Texas Municipal Police Association in San Antonio at the International Building, and we took a coffee break somewhere around 11:30 or 12, I don't know the exact time.

During his interview with Larry Sneed, Hill explained the following:

"At that time, I was the Secretary-Treasurer of the Texas Municipal Police Association, and we were having some membership problems in San Antonio. Since I was scheduled to be off that Sunday, one of the other Officers, who was an Official in the state organization, and myself had flown to San Antonio early that morning [November the 24th].”

I am highly suspicious of anything this man had to say. I realise this is probably a long shot, but I would like to ask members of the forum if there is any truth to the above? I would also like to ask if anyone is aware of whether or not the International building (or any other building in close proximity) was used as a front by the CIA; or any other intelligence organization for that matter?

We know that Lt Colonel Robert Jones of the 112th Military intelligence group at Fort Sam Houston, San Antonio, Texas, allegedly contacted the FBI Offices in Dallas and San Antonio, and provided them with information concerning Oswald and Hidell. So there are definitely some intelligence connections in San Antonio. The fact that Hill just happened to be there two days following the President’s assassination, seems a bit too coincidental for me. Any help would greatly be appreciated.

I also hope that Duke Lane is able to verify to Lee Farley whether or not it was indeed Hill who had his arm grabbed and (almost) handcuffed inside the Theatre.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 3:58 am

Although I did state: “I'm not gonna go into detail here about Hill's complicity, and will leave it up to anyone interested in learning about Hill's suspicious actions following the assassination to read my article on my blog”, I thought that I’d highlight the key points as to why I feel certain that Hill is guilty.

1). Hill was the ONLY DPD Officer who was on the 6th floor of the TSBD, allegedly at the Tippit murder scene, at the Texas Theatre when Oswald was arrested, inside the DPD car when Oswald was being escorted to City Hall, and had possession of “Oswald’s” revolver.

2). He lied about being present on the 6th floor with Luke Mooney and co when the spent shells were discovered, he also lied about speaking to Captain Fritz and his men as he went down the TSBD, and lied about directing Carl Day to the 6th floor.

3). He lied about travelling to the Tippit murder scene in Sgt Calvin “Bud” Owens' patrol car.

4). Earlene Roberts initially claimed that it was DPD patrol Car 207 which was outside Oswald’s rooming house. That was the car assigned to DPD Officer Jim Valentine, and took Hill (by his own admission) to Dealey Plaza. Was it just a coincidence that Hill lied about how he got to Oak Cliff, and that Roberts identified the car he was connected to? No chance in hell if you ask me.

5). Of all the DPD Officers searching for Tippit’s killer, Hill just happened to be the one with a “witness” who could identify the killer (check out the DPD transmission by Hill on Channel 1 at 1:26 pm). It’s significant to note that Hill made no mention of searching for the Tippit killer during his WC testimony! The alleged witness, Harold Russell, made no mention of searching for the killer in his January FBI interview, only to do so one month later during his February interview (like Marina Oswald, Charles Givens, Harold Norman etc. his memory miraculously improved).

If Hill was in fact one of the two Officers outside Oswald’s rooming house with car 207, I really don’t think he used it merely honk the horn twice to give Oswald some sort of signal, and then lied about it under oath to the WC. No, I think he used the car for something much more substantial; like picking up the killer of his fellow Officer, and then taking the gun from him to frame Oswald (why else would the killer deliberately discard the spent shell casings, rather than pocketing them, if not to ensure that it matched ballistically to the Ce143 revolver?).

6). He most likely lied about going to the Texas Theatre with Bob Apple. There is nothing in the transcripts which indicates that Apple was at the Theatre, let alone Oak Cliff. Apple’s transmission on channel 2 at 1:12 pm suggests he was assigned a three wheel bike, although it is not clear. There is also no support from the list of DPD Officer Assignments that he was assigned a three wheeler.

7). Last but not least, Ray Hawkins was adamant that it was Hill who “grabbed” the gun during the scuffle with Oswald inside the Theatre; plus all the inconsistencies and contradictions concerning the chain of possession of the revolver and how Oswald allegedly tried to shoot Nick McDonald.

I think most researchers don’t suspect Hill because he reported the shells at the Tippit murder scene were from an automatic. I think that was strictly CYA. Think about it, if you were a cop, and you’re smart, and you’re about to frame a man with a revolver, wouldn’t you report the shells as being from an automatic in order to divert suspicion away from yourself? I sure would. I really hate to say this, but I think Hill has suckered researchers real good.

Kudos to both Lee Farley and Duke Lane for opening my eyes to Hill’s complicity. I only hope that many others follow suit. I do think that Greg has a viable case against McDonald, and I haven’t dismissed him as a suspect, but all my instincts tell me to go with Jerry. I also think it’s quite possible that McDonald deliberately provoked Oswald so that Hill could move in for the frame-up during all the confusion.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by greg parker on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 6:59 am

And then on Sunday the 24th, I had flown out of Dallas that morning on a Braniff flight to San Antonio with a sergeant from Dallas and captain from Garland and captain from Denison to attend a state board meeting of the Texas Municipal Police Association in San Antonio at the International Building,

This is the Casa de Mexico International Building, 318 West Houston St.

You're gonna love this. It once housed the Mexican consul general's office, the Mexico tourism office and the Mexican Chamber of Commerce. Haven't been able to fix when that was, though...
http://www.texnews.com/texas97/restore112497.html

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 7:55 am

Hasan

I did contact Duke. I will spare you the details but he was a bit "arsey" with me. I'm sure Greg will agree with me when I say I find Duke somewhat temperamental. While I wait and see whether he responds in a better mood over the next few days I believe his starting point on the issue of Hill getting his arm almost handcuffed was the testimony of Captain W. R. Westbrook (WCH VII):

Mr. WESTBROOK. In fact--that was one of the only humorous things about the whole thing-somebody did get ahold of the wrong arm and they were twisting it behind Oswald’s back and somebody yelled - I remember that, “My God, you got mine.” I think it was just an arm that come up out of the crowd that somebody grabbed.

How Duke then managed to work out it was Hill's I currently do not know but will do my best to find out.

Lee

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by greg parker on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 8:14 am

Kudos to both Lee Farley and Duke Lane for opening my eyes to Hill’s complicity. I only hope that many others follow suit. I do think that Greg has a viable case against McDonald,
Hasan, I think in one of those threads, I flew the white flag and admitted they'd won me over on Hill... just as they did with the bus story. Not sure what to make of McDonald any more. He certainly wasn't the brains behind any plot, though his actions, imo, remain suspicious.

I also hope that Duke Lane is able to verify to Lee Farley whether or not it was indeed Hill who had his arm grabbed and (almost) handcuffed inside the Theatre.
Mr. BALL - Wait a minute. I can't follow you when you say it was "this way," sir. You told me that this officer asked Oswald to stand up?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - Did he stand up?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; he did.
Mr. BALL - Then did he put his hand some place on Oswald?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir; along about
Mr. BALL - Where?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess about his hips.
Mr. BALL - Then what did Oswald do?
Mr. APPLIN - He took a right-hand swing at him.
Mr. BALL - What did the officer do?
Mr. APPLIN - The officer grabbed him then.
Mr. BALL - Had you seen the pistol up to that time?
Mr. APPLIN - No, sir; there was not one in view then.
Mr. BALL - How soon after that did you see the pistol?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess it was about--I guess it was about 2 or 3 seconds.
Mr. BALL - Who pulled the pistol?
Mr. APPLIN - I guess it was Oswald, because--for one reason, that he had on a short sleeve shirt, and I seen a man's arm that was connected to the gun.
Mr. BALL - What did the officer do?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, the officer was scuffling with him there, and----
Mr. BALL - Did you hear anything?
Mr. APPLIN - Well, about the only thing I heard was the snap of the gun and the officer saying, "Here he is."
Mr. BALL - You heard the snap of a gun?
Mr. APPLIN - Yes, sir.

Do we know if Hill was wearing a short sleeve shirt? Oswald sure wasn't.

I think most researchers don’t suspect Hill because he reported the shells at the Tippit murder scene were from an automatic. I think that was strictly CYA. Think about it, if you were a cop, and you’re smart, and you’re about to frame a man with a revolver, wouldn’t you report the shells as being from an automatic in order to divert suspicion away from yourself? I sure would. I really hate to say this, but I think Hill has suckered researchers real good.
Here's where I may have a problem. This assumes that Hill realized there would be an army of researchers poring over this case for at least the next 50 years. Is there any other possible explanation that works without those types of assumptions?


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 8:35 am

Guys, thanks a million for your efforts. Lee, sorry if I sounded pushy. It honestly wasn't my intention. When I find the time, I will respond properly to your posts. Thanks again.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by greg parker on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 10:15 am

Lee David Farley wrote:Hasan

I did contact Duke. I will spare you the details but he was a bit "arsey" with me. I'm sure Greg will agree with me when I say I find Duke somewhat temperamental. While I wait and see whether he responds in a better mood over the next few days I believe his starting point on the issue of Hill getting his arm almost handcuffed was the testimony of Captain W. R. Westbrook (WCH VII):

Mr. WESTBROOK. In fact--that was one of the only humorous things about the whole thing-somebody did get ahold of the wrong arm and they were twisting it behind Oswald’s back and somebody yelled - I remember that, “My God, you got mine.” I think it was just an arm that come up out of the crowd that somebody grabbed.

How Duke then managed to work out it was Hill's I currently do not know but will do my best to find out.
Lee
"Somewhat temperamental"? Duke? Duke Lane?

I'm going to pull a Schultz here and say "I know nuthingk, nuthingk!"

Was actually hoping your contact might lead to him jumping on board and joining this thread.

If he doesn't, I'd be forced to say he is "somewhat temperamental" like Maria Callas was somewhat a diva. Cool

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 2:15 pm

Hasan, warm welcome to the forum I love you
You've brought a lot of interesting information and it's obvious you've done some quality research. I had a first look at your blog a few nights ago. Which reminded me of when Leonard Nimoy (Star Trek's Mr. Spock) was breaking into theater, and a bit pessimistic of his chances, he was told "There's always room for another good one." His first foray into TV that I know of was in a Twilight Zone episode called "I, Robot" (it's been a few decades, it may have been an Outer Limits episode). He plays a lawyer defending a robot accused of murder. cat
The jury convicts the robot, who then leaves the courtroom and saves the life of a child I think from being run over by a car. Only the robot gets crushed into parts. drunken

Anyways, I wanted to comment a bit on this car 207 stuff. I'm quite skeptical that housekeeper Earlene Roberts ever saw a cop car outside while Oswald was changing clothes and getting his pistol. Roberts didn't come forward with this story until November 29, telling it to a couple FBI agents (WCD 5 p. 356):

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docid=10406&relPageId=361

Her sister, Bertha Cheek, had actually met with Jack Ruby at his Carousel Club on November 18 to discuss investing there (she owned various apartment buildings in Dallas). And when Roberts testified, it became Car 106 then Car 107. And 107 turned out to be an out-of-service car that had been sold to a dealer about 60 miles east out in Sulphur Springs in April 1963 and then reactivated in February 1964. And a week before it got sold, Ruby had placed a telephone call to a different auto dealer in Sulphur Springs.
That's enough funny business for me, at least, to suspect that Roberts made this story up, at the behest of her sister. It affiliated Oswald with two unknown policemen in the cop car outside, minutes before policeman Tippit got slain, generating years of unresolved and unresolvable speculation.

Add to this that Car 207 got filmed on KRLD-TV at 12:55 outside the Depository, so it would have been extremely difficult to get to 1026 North Beckley by 1:01. And that Valentine said it had stayed put at the TSBD all afternoon, and said that he'd given the keys to Sergeant James M. Putnam, who said likewise. (WCD 1108 pp. 11-12 & WCD 81 pp. 836-840)

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docid=11504&relPageId=13

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docid=10483&relPageId=836

J. Edgar Hoover did not agree with me. In an airtel sent to the Dallas SAC on May 20, 1964, he stated "It was completely feasible for the police to learn Oswald's identity at approximately 12:47 p.m. and to learn he was missing from the Texas School Book Depository building. The reason for any police car honking its horn in front of this address <1026 North Beckley> is unknown, however, it is entirely possible this car was a plant to determine if Oswald returned to his home."

So maybe there was a cop car, but I doubt it was 207.

I personally look at Hill as more of a talker, a mouthpiece, than the brains behind the frame-up for the Tippit murder. Reason being is that Hill did 6 years in radio & TV before joining the DPD. Complicit, sure, but the brains in my opinion, at least on the Dallas force, was Captain William R. Westbrook. He was present for the discovery of the whitish/grey jacket by an anonymous policeman, and also was in charge of the Texas Theater post-arrest disappearance of the list of theater patrons (anybody who'd said Oswald was there at 1:05 would have exonerated him of the Tippit murder). Westbrook by 1966 was working for the CIA in Saigon training South Vietnam's secret police, and I'd put my money on him being CIA in 1963.

I think Applin might have been mistaken in his recollection of a short-sleeved shirt in that scuffle; at XX p. 156 Oswald is shown surrounded in the theater and Hill is seen in his suitjacket.

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh20/html/WH_Vol20_0088b.htm

Several officers of interest in the Tippit murder (and JFK murder) rode 3-wheeled motorcycles. These included Sergeant E. B. Howard, Thomas A. Hutson and J.T. Griffin of the no-parking detail, and John R. Mackey, who was assigned to cover the Service Road just past the Triple Underpass.

Channel 1 was cut off for several minutes, beginning at 12:34, when an unnamed motorcyclist on the Service Road "accidentally" left his mike on (XXIII p. 913):

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0473a.htm

E.B. Howard was in charge of gathering license plate numbers from the grassy knoll parking lot- but whoops! they disappeared. Hutson testified he was 25 yards from the jacket when it was found, and he also participated in the Theater arrest. J.T. Griffin was the first to radio the dispatcher that we "Got his white jacket. Believe he dropped it off in this parking lot behind this service station". And Westbrook testified he saw some officer point to the jacket while it was still underneath a car. John R. Mackey was determined by late great researcher Larry Ray Harris to have been the actual discoverer.

Those motorcyclist assignments can be found at WCD 81.1 pp. 37-38; I suspect them to be an inner cadre of conspirators within the DPD

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docid=10484&relPageId=37



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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 2:33 pm

I forgot to add, I think either Griffin or Mackey (probably Mackey) had Oswald's jacket in their baggage compartment, say, by morning coffee break.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:19 pm

greg parker wrote:
And then on Sunday the 24th, I had flown out of Dallas that morning on a Braniff flight to San Antonio with a sergeant from Dallas and captain from Garland and captain from Denison to attend a state board meeting of the Texas Municipal Police Association in San Antonio at the International Building,

This is the Casa de Mexico International Building, 318 West Houston St.

You're gonna love this. It once housed the Mexican consul general's office, the Mexico tourism office and the Mexican Chamber of Commerce. Haven't been able to fix when that was, though...
http://www.texnews.com/texas97/restore112497.html

Very interesting information, Greg. I just knew there had to be something more to this building since Hill was connected to it.

As per McDonald, sorry, I assumed you still thought that he tried to plant the revolver on Oswald. I wrote an article on him on my blog entitled "The filthy lies of Nick McDonald". Also, consider this about McDonald from Ray Hawkins' testimony:

Mr. HAWKINS. He [McDonald] walked from the right aisle and came in from the person's right. I was about three rows from--still in the same aisle, on the left aisle and about three rows from McDonald and Oswald when I heard him say, "I've got him," or "This is it," or some words to that effect.

Mr. BALL. Did you hear Oswald say anything?

Mr. HAWKINS. Not at that time; no, sir; I did not.

Now what are we to make of the above? Hawkins said he heard someone possibly say "This is it", but also said it wasn't Oswald! Anyone else get the feeling it was McDonald who said "This is it" to Oswald - because he was part of the frame-up? Could this also explain why he was incredibly nervous when interviewed by WFAA-TV the next day when he said Oswald shouted out "This is it" just prior to punching McDonald?

We know of course that he later claimed Oswald said "Well, it's all over now". I certainly don't think McDonald was a bright person, but I think he was fairly cocky, which is why he tried to make himself look like a hero.

Finally, as per Hill and the automatic shell casings, I think he could certainly have anticipated researchers looking into him, but more importantly, I think he knew that Jim Valentine would have said that he turned the keys of car 207 over to him and that he was outside Oswald's rooming house and framed Oswald for Tippit's murder, and in the spur of the moment, decided to report that the shells were from an automatic as CYA. I know it's not the greatest explanation in the world, but who knows for sure.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:32 pm

Lee David Farley wrote:Hasan

I did contact Duke. I will spare you the details but he was a bit "arsey" with me. I'm sure Greg will agree with me when I say I find Duke somewhat temperamental. While I wait and see whether he responds in a better mood over the next few days I believe his starting point on the issue of Hill getting his arm almost handcuffed was the testimony of Captain W. R. Westbrook (WCH VII):

Mr. WESTBROOK. In fact--that was one of the only humorous things about the whole thing-somebody did get ahold of the wrong arm and they were twisting it behind Oswald’s back and somebody yelled - I remember that, “My God, you got mine.” I think it was just an arm that come up out of the crowd that somebody grabbed.

How Duke then managed to work out it was Hill's I currently do not know but will do my best to find out.

Lee

Lee,

It's also very interesting that John Toney told Sneed that one of the Officers shouted out:

"Somebody let go of my arm you SOB; you're breaking my arm"

Toney's account of the arm grabbing came much later than Westbrook's, but reading through Westbrook's testimony, I got the impression he was a complete fruit cake. I also think he may very well have been involved in the assassination, and may have just been playing dumb during his testimony.

I appreciate the time you have taken to contact Duke Lane. However, if he's gonna continue to act all upset and agitated with you, then don't bother with him. It sure would have been great if he just stated on the Ed forum which interview/report the claim of Hill having his arm grabbed and (almost) handcuffed was made.

Hasan.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 21 Mar 2013, 11:39 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:I forgot to add, I think either Griffin or Mackey (probably Mackey) had Oswald's jacket in their baggage compartment, say, by morning coffee break.

Hi Richard,

Very pleased to meet you! I've read through your work on Greg's forum, and have found it to be very thorough and highly informative. Unfortunately, I've run out of time right now to respond to your post in detail, but I shall be doing so later on.

Thank you for the warm welcome.

Regards,

Hasan.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 1:38 am

Complete speculation based question on my part here concerning the "short sleeved shirt."

What if Oswald wasn't wearing a shirt and was just wearing a t-shirt? If he had his jacket with him, that Earlene Roberts claims he was zipping up when he left the Beckley rooming house, then what happened to it? I'd imagine he was not wearing the jacket when arrested as he was sat waiting for the movie to start but where did it go?

If he wasn't wearing a shirt then how come he was dragged out wearing one?

Now I am quite an intuitive thinker when trying to work through these questions and I sometimes look at connections that others think have no connection. Sometimes this line of thinking works for me and sometimes it doesn't. Richard, Greg and Robert are quite forgiving when it comes to some of the bizarre questions I've asked in the past so here goes.

What if the shirt was put on Oswald during his arrest?

Remember FRITZ DIETER JAEGER? When he was allegedly opening his mouth to people in th bar he was frequenting he said that the shirt worn by Oswald upon his arrest was the shirt worn by the real assassin and that Oswald had be prevailed in wearing it after the assassination.


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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 4:52 am

Richard,

Concerning Earlene Roberts and car 207, I think the reason she changed the number was because of the harassment she got from the DPD and the FBI. I think the reason she settled on car 107 was because, as you said, it was sold, and by having her now identify that car, they succeeded in discrediting her. Does that make sense? I think you’ll agree with me that once she told the FBI she saw a cop car outside the rooming house, the DPD would have done everything in their power to discredit her –since the presence of the cop car implied that there may have been a conspiracy between them and Oswald.

I’m sorry, but I don’t trust anything Valentine or the DPD had to say about Roberts or Car 207. Valentine was never called to testify before the WC, when he should have been. I think he was ordered by his superiors to lie about giving the keys to Sgt James Putnam. I could be dead wrong about Hill taking car 207 to Oak Cliff, but I can’t shake the coincidence that he lied about how he travelled to Oak Cliff, and that Roberts happened to identify the car which took him to Dealey Plaza. If you’ve read my article on Hill, do you agree that he did lie? The only person who placed Hill in Owens’ patrol car was William Alexander. In my review of Larry Sneed’s book, I explained why he shouldn’t be considered credible in that regard.

Could you please post a link to the footage which shows car 207 outside the TSBD? The only one I’m aware of can be found in Robert Groden’s “The Case for Conspiracy (1/2)” on Youtube. If you go to the 14.55 mark, you see a man whom I am certain is Gerald Hill exiting a patrol car, although I can’t make out the number of the car. Behind him, we see a man who I think is Jim Ewell getting out of the car.

Another thing about Roberts, when did she ever say that it was definately 1:00 pm when Oswald entered the rooming house? From her testimony, it’s obvious to me that she only assumed it was 1:00 pm.

Mr. BALL. Can you tell me what time it was approximately that Oswald came in?

Mrs. ROBERTS. Now, it must have been around 1 o'clock, or maybe a little after, because it was after President Kennedy had been shot-what time I wouldn't want to say because

Let’s say Oswald actually entered the rooming house at 1:05 pm. I think this would have enabled Hill to get to the rooming house in time for the horn honking. Also, what’s with Hill and the witness in the car with him? Why didn’t he mention the witness during his testimony? Why is it that Harold Russell only claimed during his February interview that he was put into a patrol car; and not during his January interview? I think the FBI knew about Hill from Valentine, and falsified the report with both Valentine and Russell to cover-up Hill’s complicity, and so did certain DPD Officers. It Sounds a bit crazy, but there are wackier theories out there surely.

Finally, thanks for the information on the three wheeler cops, and Bertha Cheek. Very interesting information. After reading through Don Thomas’ book, I have had a keen interested in the acoustics evidence, and I think the info on the three wheel cops will come in handy.

I look forward to reading your reply, and thank you for complimenting my research.


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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 4:58 am

One last thing, the dispatcher, Murray Jackson, allegedly had the following exchange with Hill, after Hill reported the "witness" with him:

Dispatcher: Have you been to the scene?

550/2: The officer was already gone when I got there. He was driving car number 10.

Why would Jackson be concerned about Hill going to the scene? Maybe this was added into the transcript like the Tippit order to "move into the Central Oak Cliff area". Just a thought.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 6:50 am

First off, Lee, if you take a close look at XX p. 156, you'll see Oswald wearing his brownish long-sleeved shirt while seated and being surrounded in the theater. This guy Fritz Dieter Jaeger sounds like he just fell off the turnip truck. 17 agents of the Secret Service came to visit him at Shady Oaks country club in Fort Worth, where he works in the kitchen? Oh, I get it. He washes the dishes, and Loy Factor dries 'em.

May I quote from the Armstrong collection re: FDJ? "The shirt, which allegedly bore gunpowder stains and worn by OSWALD at the time of his capture by the Dallas, Texas Police Department had in fact been worn by one of two other men, who was the real assassin. OSWALD had been prevailed upon to put the shirt on later since he had been paid originally to be 'the fall guy'."

Being a Warren Commission-fearing loyal American, I never saw this in the official story, and unless Fritz Dieter had worked his way up to head chef in his short few months out of the German Merchant Marines, am not impressed by his allegation. Questions arise, for example, how did the 17 SS agents find enough caddies? With men of his caliber, how did Germany ever lose the Second World War? And on... pirat

Hasan, I can't give a complete answer at this moment, there's more stuff to look into, but I had a hunch Hill was busy with the 6th floor search and couldn't have made it to North Beckley in time. P. 502 from Pictures of the Pain says "...and two frames showing Sergeant Gerald Hill yelling out of a sixth floor window at around 1:00 just after spent shells had been located under the corner window to which he is pointing." P. 523 shows a picture of Hill leaning out of this window.

P. 546 <News photographers William Allen and Jim Murray> "Both men took photos of cops toting shotguns on Houston Street looking up at the building, and of Sergeant Hill motioning out of a sixth-floor window shortly before 1:05 PM when the shell casings were discovered."

Agreed that author Richard Trask's timestamps are not inviolate, but he's regarded authoritatively, and the case is made via news photos that Hill was busy with the 6th-floor search at the time Oswald was at his rooming house.

In that Groden video, it is indeed Hill exiting Car 207, and if you stop it just right at 14:54 you can see as he opens the door it's a three-digit number under the DALLAS half-moon, and that the first numeral aligns under the AL, the second numeral aligns under the LL, and the third under the LA. I can barely discern the "207", extremely faintly. Contrast that with a picture of Tippit's Car 10, where the numerals are centered directly under the LL. That's Jim Ewell in the back seat and Officer James Valentine driving. That has been timestamped at 12:55 by the Sixth Floor Museum, as KRLD-TV Tape 8. (Which is a footnote in With Malice, an outstanding study of the Tippit murder by Dale Myers but no longer in print; he states in the text that Car 207 pulled up to the Depository "at about 12:55")

My own timestamp at 1026 North Beckley derives from the established fact that local TV coverage of the assassination first aired at 12:58 PM; Earlene Roberts said a neighbor called her to turn on the TV. She was fiddling with the rabbit ears antenna when Oswald burst in. So it seems a pretty tight sequence of events. He was in his room 3 or 4 minutes, it's often estimated that Roberts saw Oswald standing at a bus stop across the street at 1:03, which I find quite reasonable.

My own view is that he got picked up by the Rambler, which had probably circled the block after dropping him off at the rooming house, which then took him straight to the Texas Theater. And concessionaire Butch Burroughs stated Oswald entered the Theater sometime between 1:00 and 1:07, I think it's about a 5-minute drive from 1026 North Beckley so I'd put it closer to 1:08.

Roberts told KLIF radio news that afternoon that Oswald had put on a "short grey coat". Personally I think he took it off in the Rambler before entering the Theater. It would have been easy for a) a 3-wheel motorcyclist to plant a similar jacket, or b) the Rambler driver to head for the Abundant Life Temple with the "short grey coat".

More later...

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by greg parker on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 7:24 am

Finally, as per Hill and the automatic shell casings, I think he could certainly have anticipated researchers looking into him, but more importantly, I think he knew that Jim Valentine would have said that he turned the keys of car 207 over to him and that he was outside Oswald's rooming house and framed Oswald for Tippit's murder, and in the spur of the moment, decided to report that the shells were from an automatic as CYA. I know it's not the greatest explanation in the world, but who knows for sure.

Hasan, I can certainly buy it being CYA in regard to contemporaneous investigations - I think that's at least possible - but we'll have to agree to disagree about him anticipating a slew of amateur researchers on his case for years into the future. It's only a small point anyway. CYA is CYA regardless of the intended target audience.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Guest on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 12:38 pm

Well, Hasan, I've been studying the Gerald Hill article at your blogspot and want to share some general impressions. Which you should not take too seriously. Oftentimes the things that stick out are the differences of opinion, and researchers usually neglect to acknowledge that 90% of another's work, they basically agree with completely.

I feel very fortunate to have acquired "With Malice" about 6 years ago- it's indispensible for any study of the Tippit murder. Even though I disagree completely with Dale Myers' conclusions, he presented the facts like no one else. I just saw a used copy at Amazon for $85 and am surprised it's being let go for so little.

I found myself thinking that you may have been a little too hypercritical of Hill at the TSBD for taking credit for finding the shells, and being the one who informed Fritz of this, for which Hill received zero corroboration. That, to me, is Hill's swagger, his braggadocio from working in radio & TV. There are a lot of shades of grey in the fine art of telling lies. I don't see him engaging in black deception in this instance; he's more like the guy who sees himself as absolutely indispensible to the investigation; i.e. the DPD would have been lost in the woods without him.

According to With Malice, Hill, Alexander, Owens, and an unidentified 4th man arrived in a squad car at 10th & Patton about 1:22, citing only Hill's Channel 2 transmission as they were approaching that location. I speculate that the unidentified 4th man was reporter Hugh Aynesworth. Hill then mixed Aynesworth up with Ewell in 1996 when he told his story to Larry Sneed.

Ewell had arrived with Westbrook and Sgt. Henry H. Stringer about 1:25, citing a 1986 interview of Ewell by Dale Myers. I think Henry H. and R.D. Stringer are probably the same guy. So all Hill was displaying in this instance was a faulty memory; again, I don't think deception was intended; he likely mixed up Ewell and Aynesworth.

The Abundant Life Temple is critical and you rightly focus on the 1:40 transmission from Hill that "A witness reports that he was last seen in the Abundant Life Temple at Tenth about the 400 block. We are fixing to go in and shake it down." Which is the was the way it's written in the Channel 2 transcripts.

But Myers seems to spin this deceptively. I don't know whether he may have listened to these transmissions, but what he describes is a 1:44 transmission, citing the same transcripts. Besides a different time, it's also worded significantly differently. "A witness said he saw him last at the Abundant Life Temple at Tenth about the 400 block. We're fixing to go in and shake it down." Myers speculates that the witness was either Jimmy Burt or William Smith, two young men from down the street who essentially chased after the killer and watched him from the mouth of the alley on Patton Street.

But the WC transcript has a very different interpretation. And suggests to me that maybe Warren Reynolds (who later got shot in the head) had seen the killer enter the Temple. Reynolds took after the killer rather in a foolhardy manner, accompanied for a while by B. M. Patterson from the auto dealership on the corner of Jefferson. And Reynolds thought initially he had him cornered among the cars in the parking lot behind the Texaco station.

Sometimes I picture those two women, in my mind, that Hill and Alexander spoke to at the Temple as with hairy arms & legs, deep voices, unshaven- in drag, of course- "No, sir, officer. Haven't seen anyone with a revolver running into our quaint church or any of its 100 rooms. Wouldn't know the first thing about that."

Hill (totally pathetic): "I asked them had they seen anybody enter the church and they said nobody passed them, nobody entered the church, but they invited us to check the rest of the doors and windows if we wanted to."

Charming. And 2 minutes later he overhears a radio transmission about a suspect hiding in the balcony at the Theater, so the 4-storey, 400-foot long and 60-foot wide Temple was ignored. Top-flight police work or coverup if you will. And you make a great point that Hill didn't even inform the dispatcher that he'd spoken to these two women.

I've been unable to find any after-action reports from Bob Apple, and assume that because he was in the Accident Prevention Bureau any report of his got lost in the shuffle. Howell Summers was the 2nd car on the scene, and he was in that Bureau, as was Charles T. Walker. But I have no counterweight to your claim that Hill did not go to the Theater with Apple. Ewell, according to a Dallas Morning News story (11-20-83 p. 6G) said he went in a squad car there with Hill, so I have to assume it's the one Apple drove. His 1:12 transmission that he was "down with this 3-wheeler" I think describes that he was accompanied by a 3-wheeler.

And Murray Jackson was a close friend of Tippit's and seems to have been inquiring as to Tippit's status, and all Hill could do was relate his Car number and that he'd been taken off to the hospital, not knowing much more than that. Jackson soon broke down and had to be relieved of duty, and I understand it was only his 3rd day as dispatcher.


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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 22 Mar 2013, 5:02 pm

Richard,

Thanks for replying. I don't have the time right now to provide a lengthy "rebuttal", but for now, i'd like to point out that Hill also claimed that Ewell was with him on the way to Oak Cliff during his Warren Commission testimony. So I very much doubt that he had misrememberred Ewell being in the car with him. More to come later.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 23 Mar 2013, 2:16 am

My comments to Richard’s latest posts:

1). I personally don’t trust Dale Myers or the sixth floor museum to tell the truth about the presence of Car 207 in Dealey Plaza, let alone the assassination. I’m speculating here, but I think that both the sixth floor and Myers were involved in discrediting Roberts by stating car 207 was in Dealey Plaza just 5 minutes before 1 pm. I think that if they said exactly 1 pm, it would become too obvious that they were being deceptive, if you know what I mean. Consider the following transmission from Hill at 12:47 pm:

“550/2 [Hill] and 104 [Valentine] en route to Elm and Houston, Code 3.”

Now are we really to believe that it took Valentine’s patrol car 8 minutes (with a code 3) to get from the Police garage to Dealey Plaza? Hill testified they ran into a traffic jam en route to Dealey Plaza, but I don’t trust him. He probably said that to make it sound like he arrived closer to 1 pm. Jim Ewell told Sneed concerning the ride to the TSBD:

“…We were back there at the School book depository probably in less than two minutes.”

2). From Earlene Robert’s testimony:

Mrs. ROBERTS. I had better back up a minute---he [Oswald] came home that Friday in an unusual hurry.


Mr. BALL. And about what time was this?


Mrs. ROBERTS. Well, it was after President Kennedy had been shot and I had a friend that said, "Roberts, President Kennedy has been shot," and I said, "Oh, no." She said, "Turn on your television," and I said "What are you trying to do, pull my leg?" And she said, "Well, go turn it on." I went and turned it on and I was trying to clear it up---I could hear them talking but I couldn't get the picture and he [Oswald] come in and I just looked up and I said, "Oh, you are in a hurry." He never said a thing, not nothing. He went on to his room and stayed about 3 or 4 minutes.

I don’t doubt that the broadcast of the President’s death was given as you said it was. However, how can we be certain that Robert’s friend heard it and told Roberts at exactly 12:58 pm. For all we know, she could have heard a repeat of the broadcast a few minutes after, and then told Roberts. I’m not saying that it necessarily happened that way – only that it’s a possibility.

If Earlene Robert’s was lying about the presence of car 207 (which is possible), it astounds me how she randomly picked out Valentine’s car. Hill had this to say about travelling to Oak Cliff:

“We were standing there with Inspector Sawyer and Assistant District Attorney Bill Alexander came up to us, and we had been standing there for a minute when we heard the strange voice on the police radio that said something to the effect that, if I remember right, either the first call that came out said that they were in the 400 block of East Jefferson, and that an officer had been shot, and the voice on the radio, whoever it was, said he thought he was dead. At this point Sergeant Owens said something to the effect that this would have been one of his men. And prior, on our way to the location from the city hall, a description had been broadcast of a possible suspect in the assassination. With the description, as I remember, it was a white male, 5'8" 160 pounds, wearing a jacket, a light shirt, dark trousers, and sort of bushy brown hair. Captain Sawyer said, "Well, as much help as we have here, why don't you go with Sergeant Owens to Oak Cliff on that detail." And Bill Alexander said, "Well, if it is all right, I will go with you." And the reporter, Jim Ewell, came up, and I said an officer had been shot in Oak Cliff, and he wanted to go with us also. In the process of getting the location straight, and I think it was at this point I was probably using 19 call number, because I was riding with him, we got the information correctly that the shooting had actually been on East 10th, and we were en route there. We crossed the Commerce Street viaduct and turned, made a right turn to go under the viaduct on North Beckley to go up to 10th Street. As we passed, just before we got to Colorado on Beckley, an ambulance with a police car behind it passed us en route to Methodist Hospital. We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car. Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair." At this point the first squad rolled up, and that would have been squad 105, which had been dispatched from downtown. An officer named Joe Poe, and I believe his partner was a boy named Jez. I told him to stay at the scene and guard the car and talk to as many witnesses as they could find to the incident, and that we were going to start checking the area.”

First of all, who the heck is this man who gave Hill the description supposed to be? I’m not aware of any witnesses who gave out such a description – although granted, Hill could have recalled the description incorrectly. Hill clearly indicated that Owens’ patrol car was the first to arrive at the scene, followed by Joe M. Poe and Leonard E. Jez.

In the first place, reserve Sgt Kenneth Croy was the first cop to arrive, and as he got there, Tippit’s body was being loaded into the ambulance. Secondly, the DPD transcripts prove Hill was lying. According to the channel 1 transcript, at 1:22 pm, the description of the killer was broadcast by Roy Walker. Within the same minute, this is followed by Poe and Jez reporting “We’re at the location now”. The very next transmission is from Owens’ patrol car which reads “19 is code 6”; with a code 6 referring to Owens’ arrival at the murder scene.

Hill also said that they passed the ambulance en route to the murder scene; complete BS. How the hell could Owens’ patrol car have been the first to arrive with the ambulance passing them, when Croy was the first to arrive with Tippit being loaded into the ambulance when he got there? The following is from Poe’s testimony:

Mr. BALL. What did you see [at the Tippit murder scene]?

Mr. POE. Found the squad car parked toward the curb, and a pool of blood at the left-front wheel of the car. The ambulance had already picked him up and the officer had left the scene when we arrived. We had--I don't know how many people there were. Looked like 150 to 200 people around there, and Mrs. Markham, I talked to her first and we got a description of the man that shot Tippit.

Concerning the description of Tippit’s killer:

Mr. BALL. What did you do then?

Mr. POE. We gave the description to several of the officers at the scene. You couldn't get on the radio at the time, there was so much traffic on the radio, and the last--the direction he was seen leaving, and then I talked to several more witnesses around there.

Mr. BALL. Did you ever put that description on the radio?

Mr. POE. I believe we did. But I couldn't swear to it

Later on during his testimony:

Mr. BALL. Did you give [Roy] Walker a description similar to that?

Mr. POE. Yes, sir.

Poe's testimony seems to impeach the fact that it was Roy Walker who broadcast the description of the killer – even though the transcript has Walker giving out the description BEFORE Poe and Jez even got there! Although I do believe Poe marked the shells from Benavides; because he was adamant that he did, he seemed quite confused during his testimony. Besides, I think the transcript of the radio traffic recorded on the day of the assassination takes precedence over Poe’s testimony in April 1964.

3). This is the first time that I’ve heard the shells were found before 1pm. The Warren report has the discovery by Luke Mooney at 1:12 pm. There is a broadcast by inspector Herbert Sawyer at 1:11 pm that the shells have been found. The dispatcher acknowledges this at 1:12 pm, so I think the broadcast was made just a few seconds prior to 1:12.

There is a film footage on YouTube entitled “JFK, Assassination, Tom, Alyea, Film, Finding, The, Shells”, with a reporter explaining the following:

“Jerry Hill with the Dallas Police department just leaned out a window. Apparently they found some Shells…”

This certainly supports that Hill shouted out the news of the shells, but take note that the reporter never said Hill actually said the shells were found. Also, Luke Mooney made no mention of Hill doing so, claiming instead that he shouted out the news. Why would he lie? Hill allegedly asked Mooney and co. to guard the scene, but no mention of this is made by Mooney, Boone etc. In fact, Harry Weatherford claimed that he told Mooney to preserve the (crime) scene.

Jim Ewell, who heard what Hill shouted out, told Larry Sneed:

“Meanwhile Jerry Hill worked his way up to the sixth floor, leaned out an open window, and he had what was thought to be Oswald’s little fried chicken lunch. It was in a little pop box. Jerry was holding that box and holding up one of the chicken bones exclaiming to everybody that listened to him down on the street that the fried chicken was what he had been eating.”

I find it hard to believe that Ewell, who had no problem remembering he went to the TSBD with Hill, couldn’t remember that Hill shouted out the BIG news of the shells being found. I think is proved a liar by Elmer Boyd and Richard Sims who claimed they were on the 7th floor when the shells were found. I think Carl Day also proves Hill to be a liar. There had to be a really good reason for Hill lying under Oath to the WC.

It’s certainly possible that I’m wrong about Hill. Carl Day, Elmer Boyd, Richard Sims, Kenneth Croy, Jim Ewell, Luke Mooney, Calvin Owens, and Earlene Roberts could all be mistaken/lying. The transcript could also be fudged, and Earlene Roberts just randomly happened to identify Valentine’s patrol car. I’m no expert, but IMHO, the chances of all that are VERY remote. I honestly don’t mind being wrong about any aspect of the assassination, and I greatly appreciate Richard’s input into this issue. I hope he continues to post.

4). Hugh Aynesworth had this to say about his trip to Oak Cliff during his interview with Larry Sneed:

“I remember hearing on the Police radio the transmission: ‘This is citizen’ or something to that effect. ‘A Policeman’s been shot’……..So I said, ‘Ewell, why don’t you stay here and get this one and I’ll go [to the Tippit murder scene] in the channel 8 cruiser?’ Vic Robertson was one of the Channel 8 reporters, the other I’ve forgotten.”

I’ll post some more later on.


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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 23 Mar 2013, 4:58 am

The ALT is a VERY interesting place. Many researchers are of the opinion that Tippit’s killer took refuge there; which is quite likely, but I think he was picked-up by Hill from the alley that leads to Beckley Street. The following was broadcast by Jerry Pollard at 1:32 pm:

“They say he's running west in the alley between Jefferson and Tenth.”

I agree that Bob Apple was by all likelihood referring to being with a three wheeler in his transmission (and not that he had one). When the Channel 1 dispatcher tried to get Apple’s location at 1:34 pm, he received no response.

During his testimony, Hill denied he was the one who made the 1:40 pm transmission concerning the ALT:

Mr. BELIN. Now, also turning to Sawyer Deposition Exhibit A, I notice that there is another call on car No. 550-2. Was that you at that time, or not, at 1:40 p.m.? Would that have been someone else?

Mr. HILL. That probably is R. D. Stringer.

Mr. BELIN. That is not you, then, even though it has a number 550-2?

Mr. HILL. Yes; because Stringer quite probably would have been using the same call number, because it is more his than it was mine, really, but I didn't have an assigned call number, so I was using a number I didn't think anybody would be using, which is call 550-2, instead of the Westbrook to Batchelor as it indicates here.

It’s very hard to believe anything this man has ever said.

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Re: Gerald Hill and the murder of J.D Tippit

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