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The motorcade timeline

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The motorcade timeline

Post by greg parker on Mon 25 Mar 2013, 5:47 pm

Here is the timeline as put forward by Gary Mack in an email to Sean Murphy:

What is known without doubt is that the luncheon was scheduled to begin at 12 noon so the 2000+ attendees could arrive and have time to enjoy their lunch prior to Kennedy’s live broadcast address at 1pm. His 12:30 arrival time at the Trade Mart and complete schedule was highly publicized in advance; the details were mentioned in newspapers and on local TV and radio, especially with the Love Field arrival coverage.

Here is the timeline according to Wiki - which seems to be based on David Joseph's discovery of a luncheon invitation - and for all I know - was put up by David.

On Friday, November 22, 1963, at 11:40 am CST, Kennedy, his wife Jacqueline, and the rest of the presidential entourage arrived at Love Field in Dallas, Texas, aboard Air Force One after a very short flight from nearby Carswell Air Force Base in Fort Worth. The motorcade cars had been lined up in a certain order earlier that morning. The original schedule was for the president to proceed in a long motorcade from Love Field through downtown Dallas, and end at the Dallas Business and Trade Mart.

The motorcade was scheduled to enter Dealey Plaza at 12:10 pm, followed by a 12:15 pm arrival at the Dallas Business and Trade Mart so President Kennedy could deliver a speech and share in a steak luncheon with Dallas government, business, religious, and civic leaders and their spouses. Invitations that were sent out specify a noon start time to the luncheon while SS agent Lawson told Chief Curry that after arriving at Love Field and leaving at 11:30 the 38-45 minute trip would get them to the Trade Mart on time. Air Force One touched down at 11:39 am and the Presidential motorcade did not leave Love Field until approximately fifteen minutes later.

Okay, so if it arrived at Love Field at approx 11:40 and left at about 11:55 and the trip was to take around 45 minutes, that gets them to the Trade Mart at about 12:40 and would have them going through Dealey Plaza at about 12:35 - but according to Mrs Reid, her husband heard on the radio that the motorcade was running 10 minutes late.

Now it makes sense. The radio broadcasters were only privy to the late arrival and not the late departure from Love Field.

So with that in mind... the broadcasters would have the new following timeline:

Motorcade departs Love Field @ 11:40
Due Dealey Plaza @ 12:25
Due Trade Mart @ 12:30

It is at this point that the total misinfo about the motorcade running five minutes late kicks in. It wasn't. It just happened to arrive 5 minutes after this timeline based around the radio information.

Since we also know that the motorcade actually left 15 minutes after arrival, it must have actually made up 10 minutes during the trip to arrive in DP at 12:30.

What is the importance of all this?

Eddie Piper claimed in his initial statement that at the sound of the first shot, he ran from his (alleged) viewing position on the first floor to look at the clock near the coffee facilities. According to Eddie's statement, the clock read 12:25 - coincidentally the time the motorcade was due according to the radio - but not the actual time it did arrive. Maybe the clock was just 5 minutes slow...? But if so, why did Piper try to amend the time once before the WC with a hedged lie by saying it read between 12:27 and 12:30? If it really did read 12:25 as he originally said, why not just say that, and add that you'd learned later the clock was 5 minutes out?

I do not believe Piper was on the first floor. He was up on the 6th and seen by Arnold Rowland.
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t34-was-eddie-piper-on-the-6th-floor?highlight=piper

Another issue is the Oxnard call... the caller's original prediction was that Kennedy would die at 10:10 which translates to 12:10 in Dallas... the exact time Kennedy was due in DP. When that came and went, the caller knew Kennedy had not been hit and amended the time for the assassination to 12:30... bang on.

So how to explain this?

She was either psychic or was in radio contact with people on the ground in Dallas who forwarded the 12;10 time to her based on the radio information - when it became obvious that had been wrong, I think they quickly ascertained the current location of the motorcade and recalculated the new ETA based on that before relaying it to Oxnard.

There is no doubt in my mind she was using the phone in some kind of ritual magic spell in order to ensure the success of the plotters. But she was certainly no psychic. She was in radio contact with someone in Dallas
http://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t28-the-oxnard-riddle-explained

In fact, I believe I know who she was, and unless something comes along to rule her out, I'll be naming her in my book...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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greg parker
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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by greg parker on Mon 25 Mar 2013, 8:59 pm

This is from O'Donnell's testimony

Mr. SPECTER. Do you recall at approximately what time the Presidential Party arrived at Love Field, Tex.--Love Field, Dallas, Tex.?
Mr. O'DONNELL. I would think it would be around 11, 11:15. We were on time. We always allowed a few minutes at the airport, because he always shook hands with the crowd. So we left--my recollection is that we departed from Love Field approximately according to the schedule.
Mr. SPECTER. What were President Kennedy's activities at Love Field?
Mr. O'DONNELL. He had no scheduled activities. It was a matter of assembling the motorcade. He got off Air Force I, and he went over to the crowd that was gathered around the rail, shook hands, went up and down.

Hmmm.

According to the WCR, the motorcade left Love Field shortly after 11:50 a.m which, with a 45 minute trip, gets them to Trade Mart 12:35 (and thus to DP at 12:30).

Sheriff Decker said in his affidavit that in Dealey Plaza, Lawson had "just looked at his watch stating it was 12:31 PM and remarking that we would be approximately 5 minutes late in arriving at Market Hall..."


But if that were true, then the official time that the Motorcade was due to leave Love Field was 11:45 or it was actually 11:50 and they lost 5 minutes during the trip. But either way, it is completely at odds with O'Donnell's testimony and O'Donnell is completely at odds with the official WC timeline.

WTF. There is something very wrong at a very basic level when something as simple as when a presidential motorcade began and when it was actually scheduled to begin, becomes a wander through a Kafka play...

At the moment. I'll back O'Donnell insofar as as the President was normally given some schmoozing time at airport arrivals. If O'Donnell was correct and they arrived at the latter end of his guestimate - that is at about 11:15, and Kennedy spent about 10 to 15 minutes chatting and shaking hands... that brings the departure time to somewhere around 11:25 to 11:30 which gets them to the Trade Mart at 12:15 and through Dealey at 12:10. This may have been the original schedule - but it was clearly not what happened. O'Donnell is simply wrong about arriving and leaving on time... but has the "waving/shaking hand" time allowed for Kennedy correct.


Last edited by greg parker on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 8:38 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 4:00 am

Good stuff, Greg. Nothing about this damn case is simple.

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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 9:03 am

Kudos to David Joseph for finding the TM invitation with it's noon start time.

Gary Mack's assertion that it was "well publicized" that Kennedy was due to arrive at 12:30 with his speech to begin at 1pm is no more that just that - an assertion. If he can stump up with the evidence, I'll believe it.

I mean,sure I can see that... the organizers generously allotting Kennedy a whole half hour to wolf his steak down before speaking...

But until the evidence is forthcoming, it looks to me like it was supposed to be an an 11:30 arrival, with a departure around 11:45 - arrive at TM at 12:15 after passing through DP at 12:10.

As for Lawson's comment just after 12:30 that they would arrive about 5 minutes late... that has to be a reference to being late according to the AMENDED ETA after arriving at Love Field 10 minutes late - with that amended time-frame broadcast by local radio.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Mar 2013, 11:08 am

Gary right on cue has come good with the proof.... apparently this was published in the DMN on Nov 20:

Timetable Announced for President's Visit

(..........)

12:30 P.M. - Arrives at Trade Mart to address luncheon sponsored by the Dallas Citizen's Council, Dallas Assembly and the Graduate Research Center of the Southwest.

Which means wiki is wrong and the interpretation of the TM invitation is wrong - not least in placing the motorcade in DP at 12:10 according original plans.

How this impacts on my Oxnard call theory is pretty straight-forward. It puts me back to my original thought that there was a sniper (or bomb?) ready at whatever location the motorcade would be travelling through at 12:10... but for whatever reason, was aborted, leaving the hit to the DP team.

In trying to find some corroboration from other sources for a 12:30 arrival, I found this, from a book called Air Force One: The Aircraft That Shaped The Modern Presidency by Von Hardesty published in 2005:

"The fast-paced itinerary called for Air Force One to bring President Kennedy and First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy to Dallas's Love Field at 11:35 AM. After a short interlude to shake hands with onlookers at the edge of the tarmac, Kennedy and his party would leave promptly for downtown Dallas. The departure time for the motorcade was 11:45 AM with an anticipated 12:30 PM arrival at the Trade Mart..."

It seems to me now, that the radio announcement about the motorcade running 10 minutes late was based upon the erroneous belief that the motorcade would depart Love Field as soon as AF1 touched down. The 10 minutes is actually accounted for by the handshaking O'Donnell said was par for the course.

There is still one anomaly to account for: Lawson's alleged advice to Curry that after arrive at Love Field the 38-45 minute trip would get them there on time. This, like the local radio announcing it being 10 minutes late, does not seem to to take into account the time allotted for the hand-shaking.

That it did end up running 5 minutes late must have been due to unscheduled stops along the route.
And there it stands --- until more information turns up, at least.. cheers



_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by Guest on Sat 13 Apr 2013, 10:26 am

greg parker wrote:Kudos to David Joseph for finding the TM invitation with it's noon start time.

Gary Mack's assertion that it was "well publicized" that Kennedy was due to arrive at 12:30 with his speech to begin at 1pm is no more that just that - an assertion. If he can stump up with the evidence, I'll believe it.

I mean,sure I can see that... the organizers generously allotting Kennedy a whole half hour to wolf his steak down before speaking...

But until the evidence is forthcoming, it looks to me like it was supposed to be an an 11:30 arrival, with a departure around 11:45 - arrive at TM at 12:15 after passing through DP at 12:10.

As for Lawson's comment just after 12:30 that they would arrive about 5 minutes late... that has to be a reference to being late according to the AMENDED ETA after arriving at Love Field 10 minutes late - with that amended time-frame broadcast by local radio.

Thanks for the reference Greg... here is the actual link to the invite in my photobucket...
This all goes back to the discussion regarding HOW Oswald would know NOT to be at the window at 12:15, when the limo SHOULD have passed by and miraculously gets there in the nick of time just as the limo passes... obviously cause he was not there, nor ever was...

DJ (Josephs, with an "s")

http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff394/dhjosephs/TradeMArtLunchinvite-stamped.jpg

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Re: The motorcade timeline

Post by greg parker on Sat 13 Apr 2013, 10:46 am

Josephs? I should have known is more than one albino

Thanks for the link, David. I have the motorcade timeline pretty much now settled in my own mind, anyway.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3451
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Re: The motorcade timeline

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