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Separation Paines

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Separation Paines

Post by greg parker on Sun 21 Apr 2013, 9:41 am

The Oswalds arrive in the US in June 1962.

Ruth and Michael Paine separate in September 1962, and the Oswalds meet George DeMorenschildt that same month. Michael, immediately upon separation, begins attending political meetings, starting with the Indignant White Citizens Council. The Oswalds are separated on occasion under the influence of the White Russian community.

The Oswalds meet Ruth Paine in February, 1963

The Oswalds are separated again in April when Lee goes to New Orleans and Marina stays with Ruth Paine.

Ruth delivers Marina to Lee in May

Ruth arrives again in September after a tour of her intelligence-connected New England relatives and friends
to take Marina back to Dallas. Meanwhile Lee takes off for...?

Ruth helps line up a job for Lee at the TSBD in October

On November 13, Ruth filed a petition for divorce with the Domestic Relations Court claiming that for 6 months prior to separating from Michael on or about September 1, 1962, he had dealt her "unkind, cruel, harsh and tyrannical treatment... of such a nature as to render their future living together unsupportable."
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=355266

As can be seen in the above document, her divorce lawyers were Raggio and Raggio (although specifically, it was Louise Raggio). Note their address. Rio Grande Building - home to the 112th MIG. Louise was a long time friend to LBJ and his inner circle, including Judge Sarah Hughes. She had also worked at one time for the DA's office under Wade. Husband Grier had been "rejected" in New Orleans for army intelligence training during WWII due to his "subversive" background. He then commenced a course of ragging out the army in letters to home. Grier also took credit for suggesting the DCLU go and check on Oswald's "rights" - instead - the delegation (of which he was a part) ended up being a party to denying his right to a legal arraignment (legally arraignments had to be held in an open court).


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 22 Apr 2013, 6:21 am

Greg,

I'm certain that after taking Russian lessons, and having taught Russian at St. Mark's school for boys (as Jim Di writes in his book), she desperately needed Marina to move in with her to learn Russian.

Mr. BELIN. When did you first become acquainted with Ruth Paine, Mrs. Michael Paine?

Mrs. GRAVITIS. I was teaching in Berlitz School here in Dallas. I was also teaching Mrs. Paine. This was 3 years ago, but I don't remember the date when I started. And Mrs. Paine used to take Russian instructions at the Berlitz school, but not from me. I can add this.

And then:

Mr. BELIN. When you taught Mrs. Paine, was there generally one student?

Mrs. GRAVITIS. Excuse me, I never taught Mrs. Paine. Mrs. Paine was taking lessons before I came to that school.

Mr. BELIN. How did you get in contact with Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. GRAVITIS. I gave two lessons to Mrs. Paine at the Berlitz School. This way I became .acquainted and she said it was too expensive, and Mrs. Paine dropped out of school.

Mr. MAMANTOV. After she dropped out, Mrs. Paine called me at the office and asked me to teach, and I refused, but I suggested my mother-in-law would teach her at home.

And then:

Mr. BELIN. What kind of student was Mrs. Paine?

Mrs. GRAVITIS. She was a good student, talented, serious.


There goes the theory that she was a slow learner.

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by greg parker on Mon 22 Apr 2013, 8:45 am

Thanks Hasan. Good point. She had enough expertise to be able to confidently critique Oswald's ability.



_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 22 Apr 2013, 9:11 am

I totally agree, Greg. Shills like DVP want to believe Ruthy really wanted Marina to teach her Russian. What a joke! It just pains me (no pun intended) that she got away with her BS.

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sun 05 May 2013, 1:28 am

Linnie Mae Randle FBI interview, 28/11/63:

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/33939/rec/20 (Page 21).

"Mrs. Paine asked me not to mention to anyone that Mrs. Oswald was a Russian. I don't know why."

Maybe because Ruthy didn't want anyone to know that she was "learning" Russian from Marina; when she was already fluent.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by greg parker on Sun 05 May 2013, 9:22 am

Great find, Hasan - don't recall seeing this before - or if I did, it was before I was well versed enough to recognise the importance of some of the comments.

Mrs Paine zeroed straight in on the Depository as a job for Oswald and asked Linnie Mae to phone up about it - but Linnie declined and told Ruth she'd have to do it.

But according to Ruth, she phoned at Marina's insistence.

And this woman who by religious conviction was unable to lie was nevertheless happy to instruct others to lie if asked about Marina's nationality!




_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sun 05 May 2013, 10:22 pm

greg parker wrote:Great find, Hasan - don't recall seeing this before - or if I did, it was before I was well versed enough to recognise the importance of some of the comments.

Mrs Paine zeroed straight in on the Depository as a job for Oswald and asked Linnie Mae to phone up about it - but Linnie declined and told Ruth she'd have to do it.

But according to Ruth, she phoned at Marina's insistence.

And this woman who by religious conviction was unable to lie was nevertheless happy to instruct others to lie if asked about Marina's nationality!




Thanks, Greg. How "researchers" such as McAdams, DVP, and Bugliosi can sit there and defend Ruth Paine is totally beyond my comprehension. They don't give a crap about the truth. And they have the arrogance to call genuine researchers such as yourself derogatory names. Absolutely pathetic!

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 08 Nov 2013, 5:22 am

In her letter dated June 1, 1963, Ruth Paine tells Marina that on Thursday, she will be in the Office of a Woman Lawyer because she is going to divorce Mike:
 
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_409.pdf
 
If you look at Ruth Paine's calendar, on June 6 is written what appears to be Raggio (which also appears on November 11).
 
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh17/pdf/WH17_CE_401.pdf
 
This is what first put me onto this:
 
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/P%20Disk/Paine%20Ruth%20Hyde/Item%2017.pdf
 
There's lots of interesting information in the above file, such as the reference to a Mr Saich. There was indeed a Mr Saich, who was one of the caterers at the Dallas Trade Mart (and in the July 9 slot, the words "pick up" appear to be written), but who knows if it's him.
 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=139446

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by greg parker on Fri 08 Nov 2013, 3:37 pm

Hasan, if it does say "Saich" (and it might), it is a very big find. It puts Ruth in a position to know details of the route before the general public. 

I haven't ruled out it saying "Sarah" yet, but nor have I found any evidence she knew anyone by that name.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3442
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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 09 Nov 2013, 1:03 am

greg parker wrote:Hasan, if it does say "Saich" (and it might), it is a very big find. It puts Ruth in a position to know details of the route before the general public. 

I haven't ruled out it saying "Sarah" yet, but nor have I found any evidence she knew anyone by that name.
Greg,

I can't make up my mind on whether or not it says Saich. However, I lean towards Saich because, like you, I have been unable to find any evidence that Paine knew anyone named Sarah.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: Separation Paines

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Sat 09 Nov 2013, 1:50 am

Given that Paine's lawyer was Louise Raggio, the thought occurs that the Sarah to whom Paine may have been referring to was Sarah T. Hughes......

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Re: Separation Paines

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