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Question for anyone

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Thu 22 May 2014, 10:16 pm

Ah, I see. Well trust an ex cop to come up with such a rubbish idea of reinventing Moral Error... (no ofence if anyone is an ex cop here).

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by greg parker on Thu 22 May 2014, 10:29 pm

 Moral Error

Freudian slip by proxy.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by greg parker on Thu 22 May 2014, 10:29 pm

Frankie Vegas wrote:
greg parker wrote:I love the diversity that we have here. 

Old rockers with grizzled home truths and bon mots.

Modest maths and logic wizards.

Polite Kiwis yet paradoxically with attitude.

A bloody good and knowledgeable Spaniard who once lived in some of my old haunts in Sydney.

An unearthed and future comedic legend.

Authors with values beyond a dollar and insight beyond their navals.

A small army of honest researchers from anywhere and everywhere.

Lee.


no

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Thu 22 May 2014, 10:52 pm

greg parker wrote:
 Moral Error

Freudian slip by proxy.

Ha! I'm using hubby's laptop, and I knew I would make some sort of typo, but I didn't think it would be so perfect. Seems my typing errors are within the bounds of morality!

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 29 May 2014, 5:51 am

JFK Student wrote:What about RFK Jr? Last year he said that he did not believe the lone gunman theory.Would it be possible to get his support for this?
Reading this article by Robert F. Kennedy Jr. in the Rolling Stone makes me believe he would be open to hearing a serious proposal on reopening the Kennedy assassination case.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/john-f-kennedys-vision-of-peace-20131120
 
I think we should consider a strategy where we identify the right individual or individuals to reach out to RFK Jr. and present credible information that has been learned that demands the case be reopened. When I say the right individual(s), I mean people who have mega-credibility. (Finding/selecting the right individual(s) could be a separate project in and of itself.)  
 
The initial request for a meeting might simply be to inform RFK Jr. that "we" believe we have sufficient facts and information needed to finally address the terrible injustice inflicted upon this nation in 1963, an injustice that has also profoundly affected RFK Jr. and his family. And to have this unresolved crime properly investigated and prosecuted in the legal system and in the court of public opinion. We think we have what it takes to get the ball rolling now.
 
This reach-out request would be to book a meeting to present a summary of the information (i.e., Greg's stuff, Prayer Man, etc.) we have, something we need to show him. We wouldn't go into the specifics of the information—that is something that must be presented. I would say that it could be done in 30 minutes.
 
This basic approach has worked for me when we wanted to get approval to do projects that were significant in scope and required a commitment of resources. You reach out with a tantalizing idea, benefit, or result that you know they would find valuable and desirable. You book an appointment. If not you, you get the right person(s) to present. You outline the proposal, showing how it satisfies the things they want. You don't go into excruciating detail on anything, but you are prepared to answer any detailed questions you may receive. If we did this right, more often than not we: 1) got the meeting, 2) got approval/serious consideration for our proposal. But we never gave too much information up front. If successful, they want to know more and we're off.
 
I believe if RFK Jr. thought he had a way to reopen this thing that he would do it in a heartbeat and lead the charge. He could champion the effort. beowulf said on another thread that finding someone "who was willing to jump into this case with both feet, politics be damned" would be like finding "a rare bird."
 
Perhaps RFK Jr. is such a rare bird.
 
Just thinking.


Last edited by Stan Dane on Thu 29 May 2014, 2:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : remove repeated words)

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Thu 29 May 2014, 10:09 am

Do you think it would be best to contact RFK JR through his lawyer?

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 29 May 2014, 1:39 pm

Frankie Vegas wrote:Do you think it would be best to contact RFK JR through his lawyer?
Possibly. I would defer to those who know RFK Jr. best. Once we know the path of approach, then we reach out to him with our "sales offer." And make no mistake; we would be trying to sell something here. Sell him on a particular interpretation of facts, many of which may be new to him. We would have to quickly demonstrate why our explanations are reasonable and sound, differentiating ourselves from so many other sincere, but often misguided or deluded people who clamor for action to be taken. We are not them. We need to come across as serious people, not wild-eyed zealots. We have information to present but we are not arrogant know-it-alls.
 
Assume right now we will be granted 30 minutes to make our case. What would we present? What do we keep in and what would we edit out? What's the focus? I've heard it said that preparing a one hour speech is easy, but preparing a five minute speech is difficult. I agree. When you don't have much time, every second counts. Maybe we should start writing the presentation now and begin the process of refining it so as to be ready when opportunity knocks? It could be a good exercise. Putting your arguments in writing is the best way to see weaknesses that might otherwise not be apparent.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Thu 29 May 2014, 2:14 pm

He is a fan of JFK and the unspeakable. So we have that our sleeves. We already know what his stance is likely to be regarding what he thinks happened to a certain degree.
I'm no good at writing so I will bow out of helping with the presentation - unless you think it will help when I tell him something is 'really cool and shit, so ya know'. Lol.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 29 May 2014, 2:27 pm

Frankie Vegas wrote:He is a fan of JFK and the unspeakable. So we have that our sleeves. We already know what his stance is likely to be regarding what he thinks happened to a certain degree.
I'm no good at writing so I will bow out of helping with the presentation - unless you think it will help when I tell him something is 'really cool and shit, so ya know'. Lol.
Sometimes a reassuring smile and a well-timed wink help to close the deal. I'm sure there's a place for you on the team.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by greg parker on Thu 29 May 2014, 4:35 pm

A feeler has been put out. We'll see where/how that goes.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Thu 29 May 2014, 6:03 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Frankie Vegas wrote:He is a fan of JFK and the unspeakable. So we have that our sleeves. We already know what his stance is likely to be regarding what he thinks happened to a certain degree.
I'm no good at writing so I will bow out of helping with the presentation - unless you think it will help when I tell him something is 'really cool and shit, so ya know'. Lol.
Sometimes a reassuring smile and a well-timed wink help to close the deal. I'm sure there's a place for you on the team.
Ha! I  can cheer from the sidelines.

hope it goes well, Greg!

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 30 May 2014, 2:48 am

More thinking out loud here…
 
Maybe this is a good time to develop the process to seek to reopen the Kennedy case. RFK Jr. is but one of the many avenues we can try to get needed support to proceed. But we will need a presentation as it were—our case for action "story" for anyone we reach out to. Maybe a form of a legal brief (I speak as a layman here), but much more than that. This has to appeal to the emotions as well. Upon hearing the information, people need to want to do something. Ours is a multifaceted approach.
 
RFK Jr. is a nice first step, but we cannot pin all of our hopes on one individual or one line of attack. So we must prepare ourselves to present our compelling information in the most effective way possible to whomever. It needs to be understandable, no-brainer kind of stuff.
 
Perhaps that's you next order of business Greg. Consistent with the purpose and mission of ROKC, assemble a group to develop the content for this presentation (e.g., yourself, Sean Murphy, Lee Farley, etc.) and, using other good resources here, refine/distill the message into something that would make people, especially those predisposed to some sort of conspiracy, say "wow" and want to take action. It's not necessary to have everything nailed down airtight, just present a "beyond reasonable doubt" kind of story. Far beyond reasonable doubt.
 
Again, if someone where to call one of us and say "We hear you have compelling facts and arguments for reopening the JFK assassination and we'd like to hear them; could you meet with us soon and show us what you got?" would we be ready? If the answer is no, then we need to get ready.

Just brainstorming.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Terry W. Martin on Fri 30 May 2014, 3:07 am

Stan Dane wrote:More thinking out loud here…
 
Maybe this is a good time to develop the process to seek to reopen the Kennedy case. RFK Jr. is but one of the many avenues we can try to get needed support to proceed. But we will need a presentation as it were—our case for action "story" for anyone we reach out to. Maybe a form of a legal brief (I speak as a layman here), but much more than that. This has to appeal to the emotions as well. Upon hearing the information, people need to want to do something. Ours is a multifaceted approach.
 
RFK Jr. is a nice first step, but we cannot pin all of our hopes on one individual or one line of attack. So we must prepare ourselves to present our compelling information in the most effective way possible to whomever. It needs to be understandable, no-brainer kind of stuff.
 
Perhaps that's you next order of business Greg. Consistent with the purpose and mission of ROKC, assemble a group to develop the content for this presentation (e.g., yourself, Sean Murphy, Lee Farley, etc.) and, using other good resources here, refine/distill the message into something that would make people, especially those predisposed to some sort of conspiracy, say "wow" and want to take action. It's not necessary to have everything nailed down airtight, just present a "beyond reasonable doubt" kind of story. Far beyond reasonable doubt.
 
Again, if someone where to call one of us and say "We hear you have compelling facts and arguments for reopening the JFK assassination and we'd like to hear them; could you meet with us soon and show us what you got?" would we be ready? If the answer is no, then we need to get ready.

Just brainstorming.

That's good thinking: get a proposal together even before seeking a contact.

Anyone good at making bullet lists?

[Terry: standing on the sidelines cheering with Stan]


Last edited by terlin on Fri 30 May 2014, 3:08 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : correct punctuation)

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by beowulf on Fri 30 May 2014, 3:58 am

RFK Jr. is a nice first step, but we cannot pin all of our hopes on one individual or one line of attack...

Actually you kind of do. There's only one way to gather additional evidence of this crime and that's by exhuming President Kennedy's body and performing a proper autopsy (considering how much time and money the HSCA spent, its shocking that wasn't the first thing they did).
The only way that's going to happen is if the Kennedy family (namely, the President's daughter Caroline, who's now serving as our ambassador to Japan) asks for another autopsy. So like it or not, I think the only way forward is with the Kennedy family's cooperation and I suppose RFK Jr is a nice first step on the way to persuading his cousin.

Bill Kelly had an excellent piece on this topic last year (to which Cyril Wecht chimed in with his own thoughts).
http://jfkcountercoup.blogspot.com/2013/08/case-for-new-autopsy.html

EDIT:  Legally, of course, the Dallas DA could get a court order for an exhumation, but if he won't call Frazier down to the grand jury for a few minutes to question him about the Prayer Man photo, he's clearly not going to order an autopsy without Caroline Kennedy's approval.  And if she approves it, there's no need for DA in the first place. She can ask for it herself.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 30 May 2014, 4:32 am

Well, whether we have all of our eggs in one basket or not, we have to formulate some kind of a structured game plan, don't we?
 
I hadn't thought about JFK's body, but then, that's why we're a community here. Many minds are better than one. I was thinking more along the lines of some of the new information and insights gained in the past year, like Prayer Man and Greg's information. Pull that together and see what we have. I'm also thinking about shaping public opinion, in the absence of any direct legal approach, at least initially. Because if somebody with power wants to do something bad enough (or is influenced to do something), they'll do it and find some law or some interpretation of the law to proceed. Where there's a will there's always a way.

If we simply look at the obstacles and the million and one good reasons something won't work, we might as well pack up and go home.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Fri 30 May 2014, 9:17 am

If we could get a new (and fair) investigation we would have much more of a chance for exhumation.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by greg parker on Fri 30 May 2014, 11:30 am

Stay tuned.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by greg parker on Fri 30 May 2014, 2:24 pm

greg parker wrote:Stay tuned.
I have been asked not to talk specifics, but the bottom line is - forget about RFK, Jr. It's not happening. 

I will just continue with the books and hope they accomplish what I set out for them to accomplish.

That said, we still have the Dallas Murder Mystery Clubs. Despite a lack of enthusiasm from members for setting up local chapters, I  think that it's an idea worth further thought. My own lack of enthusiasm is based on the sound knowledge that I would be subjecting myself to an hour or two of why and how "Hickey did it" every month. I'm just not that masochistic.  Others have similar issues and or/time or other restraints. I hope Lee has not read this wrong. It's easy to get disheartened when you think your enthusiasm for an idea is not shared. The bottom line is that there are many many people in many many towns and cities who would take this idea up and make it work, and we need to find those people.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 30 May 2014, 7:05 pm

The purpose of this thread was to explore questions and brainstorm and that we did. The odds were always heavily against anything happening, regardless of the idea. It will remain so. Realistically it's going to take something completely out of the blue to reopen this thing. Probably won't see it in my lifetime. But I guess we still keep trying.

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Terry W. Martin on Fri 30 May 2014, 8:07 pm

Bouncing around ideas may lead to interesting destinations. On the "House of Cards" thread we had a discussion about Oswald's address quagmire and the suggestion of asking Marina...

Mark A. O'Blazney wrote:Now you're getting serious.  The 'interview' must be in her native language, though.
Lawyers will be involved.  But she must be willing, or leave this lady alone.  But then, why not have a "fireside chat" with Ruth as well, the both of them together?  I'm sure they would agree to this on, say, an Oprah Winfrey Special Broadcast.  She's got a nice bully pulpit.  Would that make a difference?  Excuse my dust.

Oprah might be interested in getting the women together for this though I doubt she's got enough pull to get the two Mrs. P's together on the same stage.

Still, Oprah might be interested in talking with Abraham Boldin and using this as a lead in to reopening the case.

Stan,

Don't get glum. We might still get something done before you (or I) head for other vistas.

:: fingers crossed ::

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sat 31 May 2014, 7:46 am

I hope we get something soon. Since the 50th we have lost heaps of witnesses and good researchers. Not to be Debbie Downer, but I'm sure feeling the pressure.
Anyone think a public campaign/petition to the Dallas D.A would help?

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Terry W. Martin on Sat 31 May 2014, 10:30 am

Frankie Vegas wrote:I hope we get something soon. Since the 50th we have lost heaps of witnesses and good researchers. Not to be Debbie Downer, but I'm sure feeling the pressure.
Anyone think a public campaign/petition to the Dallas D.A would help?

I don't really think a public campaign/petition to the D.A. would help much. By itself anyway.

Perhaps included with a blitz of other stuff to get noticed... but we don't seem to have access to any major PR agencies or people or we would have used it before now.

What we need more than anything, I think, is a plan.

Getting it mentioned means a lot. Even PR people know that a "negative news item" is as good as something positive because it keeps you in the news. The better PR people are always getting their clients mentioned. Seriously, you don't think any of the Kardashians are THAT interesting, do you?

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Re: Question for anyone

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sat 31 May 2014, 10:50 am

I done a few campaigns on this case that have been ok. Not massive, but not too bad.
I agree, a plan would be great.

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Re: Question for anyone

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