Choose Search Type
Search
 
 

Display results as :
 


Rechercher Advanced Search

Latest topics
» Prayer Man Vs Sasquatch
Today at 4:25 pm by Hasan Yusuf

» ROKC Lampoon
Today at 4:24 pm by greg parker

» Prayer Man in the News
Today at 12:01 pm by greg parker

» Marina Oswald FBI 10/29 interview
Today at 11:49 am by greg parker

» Shirley Temple is Prayer Man According to Duncan McRae
Today at 1:53 am by Jake Sykes

» The Bold and the Italics
Fri 09 Dec 2016, 9:06 am by greg parker

» The Eighth Naval District
Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:33 pm by Hasan Yusuf

» Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt2
Thu 08 Dec 2016, 8:08 pm by barto

» Send Lawyers Guns & Money Pt1
Thu 08 Dec 2016, 11:58 am by barto

Log in

I forgot my password

Social bookmarking

Social bookmarking Digg  Social bookmarking Delicious  Social bookmarking Reddit  Social bookmarking Stumbleupon  Social bookmarking Slashdot  Social bookmarking Furl  Social bookmarking Yahoo  Social bookmarking Google  Social bookmarking Blinklist  Social bookmarking Blogmarks  Social bookmarking Technorati  

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

Bookmark and share the address of REOPENKENNEDYCASE on your social bookmarking website

RSS feeds


Yahoo! 
MSN 
AOL 
Netvibes 
Bloglines 


Affiliates
free forum
 



John Pic's Notebook

View previous topic View next topic Go down

John Pic's Notebook

Post by greg parker on Mon 28 Dec 2009, 10:54 pm

These pages were written at the time of the Oswald 1962 family reunion. The first two pages below represent what John Pic stated was a written conversation between himself and Marina based around what he termed medical small talk. Pic was in charge of the Special Procedures Branch of the Pathology Dept of Wilford Hall Air Force Hospital. He was a trained Pharmacist according to George Clifford Parish, the husband of Pic's sister-in-law who had known him for 11 years. Marina had been a pharmacist in the Soviet Union.



The words written by Pic were:

Bilirubin [the pigmented part of haemoglobin]

Urease [an enzyme]

Urea nitrogen [a waste product of protein in the blood]

Transtaminase [an enzyme]

Wilford Hall was named by the DoD in the 1990s as one of the defence facilities used for Human Radiation Experiments during the height of the Cold War.

The enzymes and blood components named by Pic would be part of any blood work done in Pathology as part of such experiments.

Pic's military career included a four month stint (January to April, 1952), at the US Naval Training Station, Bainbridge, Maryland. His testimony before the Warren Commission does not reveal what he did there. The Commission on Streptococcal and Staphylococcal Diseases which ran from 1941 to 1973 may hold the key. The Commission was set up as part of the Armed Forces Epidemiological Board (AFEB).

In 1952, the Director of the Commission was Charles A Rammelkamp, a specialist in streptococcal and other autoimmune diseases, including atypical pneumonia.

Rammelkamp’s contributions to WWII in fact, came about because of outbreaks of autoimmune diseases in various military bases. He was thus recruited to work for the Commission on Acute Respiratory Diseases at Fort Bragg, North Carolina.

Such outbreaks continued after the war, but acute poststreptococcal received little attention from the Commission until an epidemic occurred at Bainbridge Naval Training Center, Maryland, in 1951 and 1952. Rammelkamp investigated this epidemic, which confirmed in his mind that certain types of group A streptococci were nephritogenic.

The US was as interested in producing agents it could use in biological warfare as it was in protecting itself from the very same agents. The research conducted by Rammelkamp and the commissions he was involved with, certainly had military use one way or the other. Indeed, the AFEB had approved and funded human experiments according to watchdog group NORTH AMERICAN FREEDOM FOUNDATION, among other sources. NAFF-MKULTRA Research

Which brings us back to John Pic who was stationed at the Bainbridge Naval Training Center during the epidemic, after which from September, 1953 until April, 1954, he was stationed at the Naval Hospital in Portsmouth, Va.

The Department of Defense Report on The Search for Human Radiation Experiment Records tells us that the Naval Hospital in Portsmouth was involved from an undetermined date until 1960 in evaluating the effect of parabromdylamine maleate on the thyroidal uptake of radiation in untreated hyperthyroid euthyroid patients; from an undetermined date until 1959 it was involved in comparing precordial isotope-dilution cardiac output values with those obtained by the Fick method and; from an undetermined date until 1960 it was involved in the study of tendon reflexes as a diagnostic aid in myxedematous patients. In the first two areas of experimentation, various doses of radiation were administered orally or intravenously so that the effects on various organs could be studied. In the latter experiments, a fifteen microcurie source of 1-131, shielded with lead, was attached to the foot of the patient and a sodium iodide thallium activated crystal was connected to a ratemeter so that readings could be taken. It should be stressed here that myxedematous patients are those who, through iodine deficiencies relating to the thyroid, have stunted growth and cretinism. These patients could not have given informed consent.



Marina wrote the names of three drugs.

Morphinum: Morphinum bears the same relation to Opium as Atropine to Belladonna-i.e, represents its nervous side. It is less stimulating, less convulsant, and more decidedly hypnotic. Constipates less and affects contractility of the bladder more. It is less diaphoretic and more pruritic.
Profound depression
Irritable, fault-finding, hysterical
Shock induced by terror
Dream-like state.
Bursting pain; head drawn back.
Headache with sensation of being "wound-up"
Vertigo from the least movement of the head
http://abchomeopathy.com/r.php/Morph

Dicain a strong local anesthetic

Heroica almost certainly a reference to heroin since Pic testified that he thought all three words were the names of drugs. Though he added "I wouldn't know", he most certainly would have, given his background.

All three of these drugs appear on the list of drugs used in MKULTRA and similar projects: CIA drugs List



John Pic testified that he used his notebook to record mileage. Here it can seen that he has recorded mileage from the USAF base to his brother's place for the reunion. Keeping such records is usually done for tax purposes so that the cost can be claimed as a deduction on work related trips. Either John Pic kept mileage records for his own personal reasons on all trips whether work-related or not or, was going to falsely claim this particular trip as work-related - or, it was in fact, work-related.



Sirhan remembered nothing about the assassination. The last thing he recalled was having coffee with a woman wearing a polka dot dress, whom other witnesses allegedly saw whispering into his ear shortly before he opened fire in the pantry of the Ambassador Hotel. Sirhan's doctors would spend considerable time analyzing what they called his "automatic writing". Like Castillo, Sirhan constantly wrote words and phrases over and over, including his own name. On the Trail of the JFK Assassins, Dick Russell, p22.

Margaret Pic (nee Fuhrman) was the daughter of Hungarian immigrants. She was interviewed by the FBI on Dec 10, 1963 after her brother had notified the FBI that Lee Oswald had once threatened her with a knife. John Pic insisted that he be present for the interview on the grounds that his wife was "quite nervous, did not desire to be interviewed alone and would not in all probability disclose information out of his presence."

John Pic testified in the following manner regarding his wife's entry in his notebook:

Mr. JENNER - The next handwriting appears on the last ruled page. Whose handwriting is that?
Mr. PIC - That is the handwriting of my wife, sir.
Mr. JENNER - All of it?
Mr. PIC - Yes, sir; she loves to write her name.


Was this page actually a demonstration of automatic writing? Regardless, Marge seems to have had her quirks...

In summary, John Pic worked at a number of defence facilities implicated in human medical experiments. On Thanksgiving, 1962, he swapped notes on matters which may have dealt with such experiments with Marina. Both were trained pharmacists. The fact that he recorded the mileage of the trip on that day indicates that it was more than a family reunion, and in fact may have been a debriefing. His wife, a daughter of Eastern European emigrants, at some stage that day, used the notebook to write her name all over a single page, similar to the type of automatic writing displayed by Sirhan Sirhan and Luis Castillo.

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3459
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

John Pic's Notebook

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Jan 2010, 11:50 pm

This is quite an intriguing post, Greg, which has had me brooding for a week. I'd never pictured John Pic as anything but a straight-up, straight-forward guy. But this information hints that the Oswald family was, roughly speaking, a "house of spies"- including in that mix Lee's cousin from New Orleans, Marilyn Murret, 11 years older and all-but-certified as a CIA agent. Some weird twist of fate brought Pic and Murret to Japan while Lee was near the end of his time at Atsugi.

I notice that a 1960 Air Force OSI background investigation of Pic (WCD 1044 p. 15), conducted because of his half-brother's defection, calls him "the most outstanding SSgt in the clinical chemistry field" in Tachikawa, Japan. And a self-described co-worker states he works in the Tuberculosis Department.
I would surmise that Staff and Technical Sergeants did the laboratory bench work (receiving samples drawn off of patients, cultivating & monitoring bacterial colonies, conducting epidemiological testing of samples); certainly a dangerous, contagious disease that the military would watch closely as regards outbreaks at the base.
There's such a broad spectrum, encompassing military biological work during the 1950's- with any of it conceivably having potential for Cold War weapons/intelligence applications- it seems likely that some form of blanket security-clearance was required to engage in this sort of work.

Seemingly, Pic's service was at treatment facilities (hospitals) rather than research facilities (investigating cures)- but his early career at the Bainbridge Naval Station is curious, considering Charles Rammelkamp's heading the pneumonia-epidemic investigation there at the same time.
Bainbridge was a large training campus for recruits, with a 500-bed hospital and 1200-student Hospital Corps School. With only a high school degree, and 2 years in the Coast Guard, Pic's 4 months there probably consisted of on-the-job medical corpsman coursework. It's difficult for me to picture him doing more than introductory-level lab & biochemistry basics there, although it's possible he received some favoritism due to his family's intelligence connections.

Of course, that is only the beginning of a 10-year medical corpsman career, that takes us up to Thanksgiving of 1962. I never would have guessed that Pic's military work had anything mysterious about it until I read your post.

*

Pic had quite a bit to say about his Thanksgiving memory in his November 30, 1963 FBI interview, since it was the only time he saw Lee after 1953. Specifically, "Sergeant PIC said he was told LEE HARVEY OSWALD's wife, MARINA, had been a pharmacist in Russia but he stated she did not speak English and he accordingly learned nothing further from or about her." (WCD 7 p. 89)

Well, this cannot be true! Marina wrote down the English names of the drugs Morphinium, Dicain and Heroica. Pic's testimony to Albert Jenner (XI pp. 60-61) is a charade, designed to hide the fact that Marina spoke at least rudimentary English to him; (her previous false-defector boyfriend, Robert Webster- who couldn't speak any Russian- recalled Marina spoke English to him with a thick accent).

JENNER: I have John Pic Exhibit No. 60 in my hand. What is this?
PIC: A black memo book, I guess.

<uncomfortable, and departing from his usual yes, sir, no, sir- style of respone>

...JENNER: ...there are some handwritings which appear to be Russian...

< they're in plain English!>

...PIC: She used Latin phrases...

<Er, um, like E Pluribus Unum; Veni, Vidi, Vici; she quoted Cicero & Ovid a lot> clown

...PIC: ...I think these are the names of drugs she was writing down. I wouldn't know.

<I've worked as a pharmacist for 10 years, but- what was the question?- I'm so forgetful lately> confused

PIC: ...That is the handwriting of my wife, sir... She loves to write her name.

<especially over stuffing & cranberry sauce, sir. That always sets her off. It takes two turkey drumsticks to calm her down. Hold them like pendulums in front of each eye> albino

*

I have to agree that this WAS INDEED a business trip for the Pics. I can only surmise that it was conducted on behalf of the USAF Office of Special Investigations, or CIA, or perhaps ONI; that it was a fact-finding/debriefing assignment, to check up on the returning false-defector and his new Russian wife. Pic was transferred from Japan to Lackland AFB in San Antonio two months after Marina & Lee arrived in the USA, which may or not be coincidental.

I also find it strange that his black memo book wasn't used previously (it must have been acquired for the Thanksgiving trip) and apparently wasn't used again.

As for Marge Pic, she seems quite possibly to have participated in some kind of military-sanctioned hypno-program. farao

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

John Pic's Notebook

Post by Guest on Thu 14 Jan 2010, 7:42 am

just another strange occurrence it what has to be one of america's strangest families in retrospect.

john armstrong's book has caused me to think about a lot of different things concerning the oswalds since i read (and re-read) it. among these are:

• what kind of family takes in and accepts two obvious strangers/outsiders (harvey and marguerite) as their own for a thanksgiving celebration and more. weird.

• the irony of robert oswald being able to condemn his brother for the assassination and people knowingly shaking their heads in assent unaware that he is talking about lee and not harvey. he is telling the truth but no one realizes the true nature of that truth.talk about separate realities.

• what would be the result of dna tests comparing samples from oswald's daughters and samples taken from robert oswald. is the country ready?

Guest
Guest


Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by greg parker on Fri 15 Jan 2010, 10:05 pm

joseph kramer wrote:just another strange occurrence it what has to be one of america's strangest families in retrospect.

Indeed Joseph!

john armstrong's book has caused me to think about a lot of different things concerning the oswalds since i read (and re-read) it. among these are:

• what kind of family takes in and accepts two obvious strangers/outsiders (harvey and marguerite) as their own for a thanksgiving celebration and more. weird.

• the irony of robert oswald being able to condemn his brother for the assassination and people knowingly shaking their heads in assent unaware that he is talking about lee and not harvey. he is telling the truth but no one realizes the true nature of that truth.talk about separate realities.

Almost an alternative universe.

• what would be the result of dna tests comparing samples from oswald's daughters and samples taken from robert oswald. is the country ready?

Probably not.


greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3459
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by greg parker on Fri 15 Jan 2010, 10:25 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:
I have to agree that this WAS INDEED a business trip for the Pics. I can only surmise that it was conducted on behalf of the USAF Office of Special Investigations, or CIA, or perhaps ONI; that it was a fact-finding/debriefing assignment, to check up on the returning false-defector and his new Russian wife. Pic was transferred from Japan to Lackland AFB in San Antonio two months after Marina & Lee arrived in the USA, which may or not be coincidental.

Yeah, I noticed that, but forgot to mention it.

I also find it strange that his black memo book wasn't used previously (it must have been acquired for the Thanksgiving trip) and apparently wasn't used again.

You know, I had assumed they only published the pages associated with the "reunion". Never occurred to me that he may have bought the book specifically for that trip, and used it only during that trip. He did claim that he used a book at all times to record mileage. Maybe this was a replacement one after filling the previous, but the idea that it was a "one off" just for this trip is intriguing.

As for Marge Pic, she seems quite possibly to have participated in some kind of military-sanctioned hypno-program. farao


Thanks Richard, some funny stuff mixed in with some keen observations.

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3459
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by greg parker on Tue 20 Jul 2010, 10:19 pm

As for Marge Pic, she seems quite possibly to have participated in some kind of military-sanctioned hypno-program.

That may be closer to the mark than we think.

From Hank Albarelli's work on Frank Olson:

After Bainbridge, from April 1952 to February 1953, Lee Harvey Oswald's half-brother returned to New York City and was assigned to the Coast Guard's Port Security Unit at Ellis Island. The Security Unit, an outgrowth of the Espionage Act of 1950, was charged with identifying, investigating, and ridding the New York harbor, longshoreman's union, and maritime industry of Communists and subversive elements.

This assignment is extremely interesting because earlier, in April 1951, one of Frank Olson's killers was being held, pending deportation, in a cell on Ellis Island. Later, at the same time that Oswald's step-brother was assigned to duty on the island, several additional major drug traffickers from France and Corsica, apprehended in a major Federal Narcotics Bureau operation headed up by George Hunter White as a dual narcotics-CIA operative, were being held at Ellis Island. Illicit drugs impounded from these arrests were transferred to a secret holding compound in New Jersey, where according to CIA documents, the drugs were disbursed to various researchers under contract with the CIA and to other unknown places. One of the French traffickers apprehended by White would be sent to a federal prison in Atlanta where he would be subjected to intense mind control experiments. Multiple drugs were used during those experiments, including morphinum, dicain, and heroin. Some readers may recall that these same drugs in 1964 were discovered listed in Lee Harvey Oswald's stepbrother's notebook. (Dicain, according to pharmacists, has never been available in the U.S. It can only be purchased overseas, and was used in Eastern Europe.)

Of equal interest, is that earlier still, during World War II, White and a number of other FBN agents assigned to the OSS, precursor to the CIA, worked very closely in New York with Port Security and the Office of Naval Intelligence on what is now commonly called Operation Underworld. This was the top-secret project that involved the freeing from prison of infamous gangster Charles "Lucky" Luciano in return for his, and the Mafia's, assistance with the Allied invasion of Italy. All of the FBN agents assigned to work on Operation Underworld went on to become covert operatives for the CIA, and would become connected in a variety of ways with Projects MK/ULTRA and MK/NAOMI.



greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3459
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by Faroe Islander on Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:08 am

The last ruled page is the third last page, if you go back to the history matters homepage you will see the picture where the last ruled page, where Marge Pic has written her name several times, is AND the last page with the P.O. Box 2915 written on it.

Who has written the box number in John Pic´s black book, who´s handwriting is it ?

Did he see LHO after the 62 reunion ?

I can´t put pictures here til next week thats why I´m not having the picture of the notebook where the p.o. box is written


Last edited by Faroe Islander on Mon 10 Oct 2011, 6:14 am; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : detailes)

Faroe Islander

Posts : 56
Join date : 2011-10-10

View user profile

Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by greg parker on Mon 10 Oct 2011, 11:04 am

Faroe Islander wrote:The last ruled page is the third last page, if you go back to the history matters homepage you will see the picture where the last ruled page, where Marge Pic has written her name several times, is AND the last page with the P.O. Box 2915 written on it.

Who has written the box number in John Pic´s black book, who´s handwriting is it ?

Did he see LHO after the 62 reunion ?

I can´t put pictures here til next week thats why I´m not having the picture of the notebook where the p.o. box is written

Hi there,

thanks for joining us. I had to look up where the Faroe Islands are!

Here is the link to the page from Pic's book:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh21/pdf/WH21_Pic_Ex_60.pdf

The "O" was written by the FBI or Secret Service to indicate it was Oswald's writing.
(I'm not entirely convinced it is Lee's writing, but that is from a non-expert)

Here is the application for the PO Box:
http://history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh19/html/WH_Vol19_0152b.htm

It shows it was opened on Oct 9 '62 - some weeks prior to the Thanksgiving Reunion.

He rented a different box after returning to Dallas in early Oct '63.






_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3459
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

View user profile http:// http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IXOA5ZK/ref=s9_simh_

Back to top Go down

Re: John Pic's Notebook

Post by Sponsored content Today at 5:05 pm


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

View previous topic View next topic Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum