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The FB Harvey and Lee Group

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The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Sun 28 Jul 2013, 2:12 pm

I was kicked out of the group for heresy. They are now free to attack me without the worry of direct reply.

Fact is, they don't like questions any more than Armstrong does. Which is why he has the caveat he will answer questions only if the person asking has read his book. He knows very well I have not read it, so it gives him an "out" in answering anything.

Here is "Curt Jester" after my dismissal: 

I think Dawn was correct, in why trust someone who hasn't read the bk t be 'looked at'? Greg and company should have a problem with witness testimony ala Ed Voebel a friend who snapped the photo and commented on the pic rather than 'seeing' what's in the pic, doesn't one think. Simply one can go further on other topics on this online H & L menu and see other medical anomolies that differentiate the two as well. Why didn't he go into that? All too telling, IMO.http://www.mindserpent.com/American_History/books/Armstrong/Tooth/Tooth.htm
What "Curt" is ignoring is that I had already pointed out Voebel was not all that confident about the damage Oswald had inflicted upon him by the other boy.

Here is Voebel: Mr. VOEBEL. 

Yes; I think he even lost a tooth from that. I think he was cut on the lip, and a tooth was knocked out.

Each step of the way, Voebel was offering qualified testimony which Armstrong miraculously parleyed into hard fact. 

He produced this magical feat by totally ignoring a witness who offered no such qualifications - Bennierita Smith.

Here is Mrs Smith's testimony: 

Mrs. SMITH. One fight really impressed me, I guess because there was this boy--he wasn't going to Beauregard, this boy he had the fight with, and he was a little guy. I think his name was Robin Riley. He hit Lee, and his tooth came through his lip. 
Mr. LIEBELER. Through the upper part of his lip? 
Mrs. SMITH. Oh, gee, I don't know whether it was a bottom---- 
Mr. LIEBELER. But it actually tore the lip? 
Mrs. SMITH. Yes; it actually tore the lip



So "Curt" is correct. I do have a problem with Voebel's testimony. But even MORE-SO with Armstrong's preference for Voebel's testimony over Smith's.

The other sleight of hand used by Armstrong is showing a heavily cropped photo of Oswald in class taken by Voebel - allegedly after this fight. 

Here is Armstrong on this:-
Ed Voebel's Warren Commission testimony that Lee Harvey Oswald lost a tooth while in the ninth grade at Beauregard Junior High School in New Orleans is pretty hard to refute, because in November 1954 Voebel snapped a photo of young Lee Harvey Oswald showing off his missing front tooth
Let's start with clearing up what Ed testified to. He testified to THINKING that Oswald lost a tooth and cut his lip. We know from Bennierita that the only thing that happened was that the tooth went through the lip. Her version is supported by the autopsy report which refers to a scar on the lip. It does not support Armstrong. But that's okay. Armstrong just claims that this is further proof of his goofy theory.

Now let's move on to the photo itself. Armstrong claims the very reason for the photo being snapped was for Oswald to show off "his missing front tooth". Which is demonstrably utter bullshit. If that was the reason for the photo, it follows that Voebel would remember with far more clarity than he apparently did that "Oswald got a tooth knocked". The photo itself would act as a memory jog. 

It is also problematic for Armstrong's claim that the photo was by no means  a close up. It was a wide shot showing most of the class. 
  


If this shot was supposed to show a missing tooth, it failed miserably.

In order to make the point, Armstrong had to have Oswald's face blown up. I'm no photo expert, but I do know that blowing up a photo that maybe not of great quality to start with, is going to increase any and all faults, hairs, spots etc. Here is the blow-up:
 


Anyone who claims that definitely shows a missing tooth is just kidding themselves. It could be a fat lip covering the tooth. It could be a speck of dirt from the negative. Any number of things might account for it. 

But NOTHING will account for why a shot specifically taken (according to Armstrong) to show a missing tooth, does not in fact show that  -  unless blown up and all other possible explanations are ignored.

So "Curt" can agree with Dawn all he likes. Saying I have no right to comment without reading the book first is just a convenient way for this group of acolytes to avoid facts that are antithetic to their beliefs.

Faith holds them together. It sure as hell isn't facts. 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/212288358867993/


Last edited by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 6:38 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 5:27 am

I guess the Harvey and Lee cult don't like reasonable questions being asked, Greg. Their argument that you should have first read the book is obviously a bullshit one, since all the evidence you cite is in the Warren Commission volumes and in the Armstrong Baylor files anyway.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 5:58 am

Maybe they should join the OIP.  They're just as fucked up.  Of course they would have to negotiate on a name change.  Something like "One of the Oswald's is Innocent Project."

I can't stand all this fake name shit either.  "Curt Jester" WTF?  Are they taking the piss?  Quite ironic don't you think?

The more I read around the different forums and different FB pages the more I just want to jack it all in.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 6:14 am

The more I read around the different forums and different FB pages the more I just want to jack it all in.
I get they way, too. Just a sick feeling reading some of the garbage floating around.

I joined that group because a member here was trying to provide some balance there by suggesting they look at some of my material. I thought I should help out, but some of them just have the knack for rubbing me the wrong way. And debating "Curt" is excruciating because it's often difficult to decipher wtf he's trying to say.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 6:18 am

Of course they would have to negotiate on a name change.  Something like "One of the Oswald's is Innocent Project."

lol!  Good one, Lee.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 6:37 am

greg parker wrote:
The more I read around the different forums and different FB pages the more I just want to jack it all in.
I get they way, too. Just a sick feeling reading some of the garbage floating around.

I joined that group because a member here was trying to provide some balance there by suggesting they look at some of my material. I thought I should help out, but some of them just have the knack for rubbing me the wrong way. And debating "Curt" is excruciating because it's often difficult to decipher wtf he's trying to say.

 I've never looked at their page so might have a looksie.  On the subject of leaving this behind I know it's certainly going to happen in the near future.  I cannot justify spending my time doing this any longer and I just don't have the passion or energy for it like I used to.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 7:14 am

I've never looked at their page so might have a looksie.  On the subject of leaving this behind I know it's certainly going to happen in the near future.  I cannot justify spending my time doing this any longer and I just don't have the passion or energy for it like I used to.
No one could blame you for that, Lee.  

I've had a change of plans, as well. At the moment, the plan is to release the first couple of chapters as an ebook - volume 1 in a 3 or 4 volume set. Hopefully if sales are good enough, a publisher might come on board and I'll get it out as one volume in print. This also means I have a chance of getting something out by the 50th - even if it is just a couple of chapters. If I get a publisher, the book will include photos and timelines.  

After that, I'm going to slow right down, too. My business is in free-fall at least partly because every spare second is devoted to this (we're just barely keeping afloat and have used up most of our savings in the process). Also as my boys grow up, I'd like to spend more time with them - at least until they get to that age where I become an embarrassment to be seen with affraid 

Then I intend to hang out with them constantly...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 7:23 am

Sorry to hear that you'll be leaving this all behind in the near future, Lee. I honestly think it would be a huge loss to the research community to lose someone as honest and competent as you. I only hope that you reconsider. Ultimately however, it's your choice. Greg, I'm also sorry to hear about your business. Hopefully it will pick up mate.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 7:27 am

greg parker wrote:
I've never looked at their page so might have a looksie.  On the subject of leaving this behind I know it's certainly going to happen in the near future.  I cannot justify spending my time doing this any longer and I just don't have the passion or energy for it like I used to.
No one could blame you for that, Lee.  

I've had a change of plans, as well. At the moment, the plan is to release the first couple of chapters as an ebook - volume 1 in a 3 or 4 volume set. Hopefully if sales are good enough, a publisher might come on board and I'll get it out as one volume in print. This also means I have a chance of getting something out by the 50th - even if it is just a couple of chapters. If I get a publisher, the book will include photos and timelines.  

After that, I'm going to slow right down, too. My business is in free-fall at least partly because every spare second is devoted to this (we're just barely keeping afloat and have used up most of our savings in the process). Also as my boys grow up, I'd like to spend more time with them - at least until they get to that age where I become an embarrassment to be seen with affraid 

Then I intend to hang out with them constantly...

 However you decide to get your work out doesn't matter.  The fact that it is formally in print (physical or electronic) is the main thing.  If it comes out in chapters or volumes , who cares?  You have such a balanced understanding of this case that the world needs to have access to your thinking and knowledge.

I'm sure once you have got something out there and it's dedicated to your boys they'll know their Dad wanted to leave something behind that was important in understanding the world we live in.  Now, that's some legacy

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 9:28 am

Lee, very kind of you, mate. There's been a lot of outside influence, but from a concentrated few. I have a huge debt...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Mon 29 Jul 2013, 11:09 am

Hasan Yusuf wrote:Sorry to hear that you'll be leaving this all behind in the near future, Lee. I honestly think it would be a huge loss to the research community to lose someone as honest and competent as you. I only hope that you reconsider. Ultimately however, it's your choice. Greg, I'm also sorry to hear about your business. Hopefully it will pick up mate.

Thanks Hasan, and I agree with you 100% about Lee. But I also understand where he's coming from. The shit that you have to wade through vs losses in other areas of your life. 

After the book is done, I'm thinking of pulling right back too. In that event, the sites will stay up, and if need be, and if you'll accept, I'll give you and Richard admin access.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3450
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 5:58 am

Thanks Hasan, and I agree with you 100% about Lee. But I also understand where he's coming from. The shit that you have to wade through vs losses in other areas of your life. 

After the book is done, I'm thinking of pulling right back too. In that event, the sites will stay up, and if need be, and if you'll accept, I'll give you and Richard admin access.
 
Greg,
 
I greatly appreciate that you are considering giving me admin access, and I'm happy to accept it, but it just wouldn't feel right. I hope that you don't leave this all behind, as I think it would be a terrible shame. I know that there are a lot of people who will agree with me.

Hasan Yusuf

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by beowulf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 10:15 am

Actually, giving Hasan (and Richard) keys to the car is a very good idea. That way Greg can jump in when he has time for it and leave things to run on their own when he doesn't.

To that end, Hasan should cross-post articles from his blog. He consistently writes a lot of good stuff but he'd get a bigger audience and more comments by posting them here (and will give the gang here stuff to chew on while Greg is busy IRL).
http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 10:55 am

Thanks very much for your kind words, Beowulf.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 12:17 am

Just had a gander at the H&L FB page.  What a waste of 15 minutes.  The only saving grace is Steve Duffy trying to bring a modicum of reality to proceedings.

Some of the idiotic material and opinions being bandied around on there are completely fucking ridiculous and make a mockery of some of the hard work that has been put into this thing over the last ten years.  I was right to compare it to the OIC.  I doubt many of them have read "H&L" because it's a terrible book to try and read.  I've managed to "read" it once and it was a damn chore and difficult to keep up with as it is more like a reference book that has a very thin Armstrong narrative interweaving through.

Dawn Meredith gets my vote year on year as the most boring and asinine JFK poster on the Internet.  Has she ever said anything remotely interesting?  Reading her nonsense makes me want to kick my own face in.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 8:32 am

Lee, that's a handsome picture. Is that your home in the background? It strikes me as a typical Liverpool flat.  

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:38 am

Dawn Meredith gets my vote year on year as the most boring and asinine JFK poster on the Internet.  Has she ever said anything remotely interesting?  Reading her nonsense makes me want to kick my own face in.

Don't know if Dawn is a member here or not, but I don't want to see any "Dawn of the Dead" jokes being slipped in, okay Mister?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Posts : 3450
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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:39 am

Richard Gilbride wrote:Lee, that's a handsome picture. Is that your home in the background? It strikes me as a typical Liverpool flat.  

 Only on the East side...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3450
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:43 am

beowulf wrote:Actually, giving Hasan (and Richard) keys to the car is a very good idea. That way Greg can jump in when he has time for it and leave things to run on their own when he doesn't.

To that end, Hasan should cross-post articles from his blog. He consistently writes a lot of good stuff but he'd get a bigger audience and more comments by posting them here (and will give the gang here stuff to chew on while Greg is busy IRL).
http://jfkthelonegunmanmyth.blogspot.com/

 That sounds like a plan. If Hasan and Richard are on board, I'll set it up.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3450
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:46 am

Thanks, Greg. I'm on board.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by beowulf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 1:28 pm

"That sounds like a plan. If Hasan and Richard are on board, I'll set it up."
--
"Thanks, Greg. I'm on board."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 4:15 pm

beowulf wrote:"That sounds like a plan. If Hasan and Richard are on board, I'll set it up."
--
"Thanks, Greg. I'm on board."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQlXNH36mI

I want one of those cigars.

Hasan, you're done. Just waiting on word from Richard.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3450
Join date : 2009-08-21
Age : 58
Location : Orange, NSW, Australia

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 4:22 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:Lee, that's a handsome picture. Is that your home in the background? It strikes me as a typical Liverpool flat.  

 It sure is.  The Conservative Government's new bedroom tax is seriously going to fuck me up!

It's actually quite a quaint little 11th century royal residence/prison you may have heard of on the north bank of the River Thames...king

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 8:13 pm

Greg, you're gonna have to explain to me what I need to do, if you're offering me the Administrator position. Probably privately in an e-mail. So only you, me & Edward Snowden will know. Laughing 

I'd gladly accept. But as you know my time is chock-full with running a painting business- at peak season right now- , ongoing health bureaucracy battles, and spending quality time with the apple of my eye. 

After going to Dallas this November, I certainly foresee being able to give ample time to this responsibility. I'd accept right now but Hasan should know he'll be doing the larger part of the work load 'til then. cat

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 8:42 pm

I'd accept right now but Hasan should know he'll be doing the larger part of the work load 'til then. 

I have no problem with that, Richard.

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Re: The FB Harvey and Lee Group

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