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A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

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A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 5:26 am

Most (if not all) of us here are aware of the Oxnard “call”; which Greg has discussed in length. However, how many of you were also aware of the following alleged phone call from Irving, Texas to North Richland Hills, Texas at about 2 pm on the day of the assassination?
 
The information on this call can be found on pages 6 and 7 of the following file:
 
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/A%20Disk/Assassination%20Information%20Center/Item%2005.pdf
 
In case the above link doesn’t work for you, the information can also be found in page 4 of the following John Armstrong Baylor file:
 
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/23499/rec/61
 
The relevant information is the following:
 
“When she [the Irving caller] returned to the phone (approximately 5 – 10 second later) she blurted out, ‘Will Lee get the bonus loot?’
 
A man at the Fort Worth number said, ‘what are you calling me, and don’t mention my name on the phone. Kennedy has to be dead for to get the bonus.’
 
‘He is dead’, the Irving customer said, ‘They’ve just announced it on the radio’.
 
I closed the key, stunned. I do have a witness to this, whom I did not report because I will not involve an innocent person.
 
I then made a call back check on the Irving number (for the correct number charge). I monitored the connection again, not believing my ears. ‘Don’t you call back here again. You will be contacted. They are not suspicious of him, no.’”
 
Naturally, the thought occurred that the caller from Irving was Ruth Paine. However, there is also Linnie Mae Randle. The “Lee” referred to above is by all likelihood Oswald. Like many others who have been researching the assassination, I have come to believe that Ruth Paine was involved in framing Oswald; and that Oswald wasn’t a shooter. With this in mind, I am puzzled as to why she would ask the following:
 
“Will Lee get the bonus loot?”
 
This implies that the caller actually believed Oswald was an assassin. So I thought to myself that instead of Ruth Paine, it was actually Linnie Mae Randle who was the Irving caller. Now, take into consideration the following from the man in North Richland Hills:
 
“They are not suspicious of him, no.”
 
This could be referring to Oswald, since it was not known at about 2 pm that Oswald was suspected of being the President’s assassin by the media. If this was Randle, and if she did ask if Oswald would get the bonus loot, then she obviously thought that Oswald was actually the assassin. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that she saw Oswald carrying a long package; and I do NOT believe for even a nano-second that Oswald did carry the MC rifle into the TSBD.
 
But who else could the man from North Richland Hills have been referring to when he said “They are not suspicious of him, no.”? Well, maybe Wesley Frazier? If Randle was the caller, and if she thought that Frazier and Oswald were involved in the assassination, then I think this could explain why she had sent the DPD to the wrong hospital to find her brother. As Richard Gilbride has explained, Frazier cut the power to the elevators inside the TSBD shortly following the assassination; so he definitely is a very suspicious person.
 
I should note that the call could have been made by either Paine or Randle at about 2 pm, as DPD officers Gus Rose, Richard Stovall, and John Adamcik had arrived at the Paine home after 2:30 pm according to the report by Rose and Stovall to Chief Curry:
 
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/08/0896-001.gif
 
I know that there are some researchers who will find this story to be a crock because the woman never disclosed her name, but I think that is understandable if she didn’t want her family or herself to be harassed after revealing her identity.
 
Anybody know of any assassination suspects who lived in North Richland Hills? Perhaps there is much significant information related to this story amongst the still classified documents.

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 5:27 am

I should add here that Jack Ruby called North Richland Hills twice on February 10, 1963. Though, I don't know how much significance I would place on these calls for the time being.
 
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=76611

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by greg parker on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 9:22 am

Hasan Yusuf wrote:Most (if not all) of us here are aware of the Oxnard “call”; which Greg has discussed in length. However, how many of you were also aware of the following alleged phone call from Irving, Texas to North Richland Hills, Texas at about 2 pm on the day of the assassination?
 
The information on this call can be found on pages 6 and 7 of the following file:
 
http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/A%20Disk/Assassination%20Information%20Center/Item%2005.pdf
 
In case the above link doesn’t work for you, the information can also be found in page 4 of the following John Armstrong Baylor file:
 
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/23499/rec/61
 
The relevant information is the following:
 
“When she [the Irving caller] returned to the phone (approximately 5 – 10 second later) she blurted out, ‘Will Lee get the bonus loot?’
 
A man at the Fort Worth number said, ‘what are you calling me, and don’t mention my name on the phone. Kennedy has to be dead for to get the bonus.’
 
‘He is dead’, the Irving customer said, ‘They’ve just announced it on the radio’.
 
I closed the key, stunned. I do have a witness to this, whom I did not report because I will not involve an innocent person.
 
I then made a call back check on the Irving number (for the correct number charge). I monitored the connection again, not believing my ears. ‘Don’t you call back here again. You will be contacted. They are not suspicious of him, no.’”
 
Naturally, the thought occurred that the caller from Irving was Ruth Paine. However, there is also Linnie Mae Randle. The “Lee” referred to above is by all likelihood Oswald. Like many others who have been researching the assassination, I have come to believe that Ruth Paine was involved in framing Oswald; and that Oswald wasn’t a shooter. With this in mind, I am puzzled as to why she would ask the following:
 
“Will Lee get the bonus loot?”
 
This implies that the caller actually believed Oswald was an assassin. So I thought to myself that instead of Ruth Paine, it was actually Linnie Mae Randle who was the Irving caller. Now, take into consideration the following from the man in North Richland Hills:
 
“They are not suspicious of him, no.”
 
This could be referring to Oswald, since it was not known at about 2 pm that Oswald was suspected of being the President’s assassin by the media. If this was Randle, and if she did ask if Oswald would get the bonus loot, then she obviously thought that Oswald was actually the assassin. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean that she saw Oswald carrying a long package; and I do NOT believe for even a nano-second that Oswald did carry the MC rifle into the TSBD.
 
But who else could the man from North Richland Hills have been referring to when he said “They are not suspicious of him, no.”? Well, maybe Wesley Frazier? If Randle was the caller, and if she thought that Frazier and Oswald were involved in the assassination, then I think this could explain why she had sent the DPD to the wrong hospital to find her brother. As Richard Gilbride has explained, Frazier cut the power to the elevators inside the TSBD shortly following the assassination; so he definitely is a very suspicious person.
 
I should note that the call could have been made by either Paine or Randle at about 2 pm, as DPD officers Gus Rose, Richard Stovall, and John Adamcik had arrived at the Paine home after 2:30 pm according to the report by Rose and Stovall to Chief Curry:
 
http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/08/0896-001.gif
 
I know that there are some researchers who will find this story to be a crock because the woman never disclosed her name, but I think that is understandable if she didn’t want her family or herself to be harassed after revealing her identity.
 
Anybody know of any assassination suspects who lived in North Richland Hills? Perhaps there is much significant information related to this story amongst the still classified documents.
Hasan, there were Oswalds living in Richland Hills fwiw
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=171371

As for the call, it may well have happened, but I'd caution against getting too excited just yet. What you have is a story from a conspiracy journal known to vary in quality. Moreover, the story comes second hand via the son of the anonymous telephone operator. And there does not appear to be any proof she ever took the story to the police or FBI.

That's in stark contrast to the Oxnard call where we know the FBI was contacted straight away, and all parties were interviewed with due haste. Which brings me to the first part of the Baylor document which is a transcript of an interview between unknown parties discussing the Oxnard call. Not that it impacts on, or even has anything to do at all with the alleged Richland Hills call, but what is being said in that interview completely and utterly misrepresents the Oxnard call. Far from being "frantic", she was in total control of herself -- and the operators listening in. Nor was she trying to warn anyone that the assassination was about to take place, nor was she talking to any other party - anywhere - at least not on that line. That said, I know you were not posting about that, nor endorsing what it says. I point all this out for the benefit of anyone who reads the whole document. 

Here are the Oxnard FBI reports:
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11503&relPageId=107

What you need to find is a viable suspect in Nth Richland Hills and any supporting information about the call (maybe it was reported to authorities at the time, and is just difficult to find the docs because we don't have a name? Or maybe a fellow employee reported it?)

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by beowulf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 10:02 am

The operator didn't overhear it, it was an illegal FBI wiretap that the Feds sterilized by playing the tape for a cooperative operator who could then testify she overheard the conversation in the course of her duties.

If the Feds were wiretapping the Paine's home number (notice the operator specifically mentioned she had the number of the Irving address), that'd also explains how the cops knew where Oswald's boarding house was so quickly.  At some point, Lee had shared the address over the  phone to Marina or Mrs. Paine.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=7608.5

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 10:14 am

I didn't mean to compare it to the Oxnard call, Greg. You are right in stating that I need to find a suspect, and hopefully I will. As for what Beowulf said, Oswald did not live at 1026 North Beckley.

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by greg parker on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 10:55 am

Hasan Yusuf wrote:I didn't mean to compare it to the Oxnard call, Greg. You are right in stating that I need to find a suspect, and hopefully I will. As for what Beowulf said, Oswald did not live at 1026 North Beckley.
Sorry Hasan. I tried not to give the impression that I thought you were comparing the two. Looks like I could have done better. Anything I said about the Oxnard call was meant for people unfamiliar with it, so that they would not make a comparison based on Armstrong lumping them together.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 10:58 am

No problem, Greg. One thing about the Irving/North Richland Hills phone call is that I haven't found any discussion of it on any other forum.

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by greg parker on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 11:19 am

beowulf wrote:The operator didn't overhear it, it was an illegal FBI wiretap that the Feds sterilized by playing the tape for a cooperative operator who could then testify she overheard the conversation in the course of her duties.

If the Feds were wiretapping the Paine's home number (notice the operator specifically mentioned she had the number of the Irving address), that'd also explains how the cops knew where Oswald's boarding house was so quickly.  At some point, Lee had shared the address over the  phone to Marina or Mrs. Paine.
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=7608.5
Normally, I would buy that scenario...

but here, it's not like this woman is on record, so what would be the point?

All we have at the moment is a story given to a conspiracy publication by the son of a deceased employee.

The conversation on the other hand, between Mike and Ruth that they gave one of their patented non-denial denials for, was almost certainly a wire-tap. This isn't about that call though.

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by greg parker on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 2:10 pm

Hasan Yusuf wrote:No problem, Greg. One thing about the Irving/North Richland Hills phone call is that I haven't found any discussion of it on any other forum.
Well, it's worth running down as far as it can be run down. If it's a blind alley, it shouldn't take too long to come to that conclusion, and it won't be the first blind alley any of us have run down in this case.  

I'm sure Beowulf will at least consider the possibility that LHO never lived at Nth Beckley once it's all out and on the table. 
The case for it is every bit as compelling as that of Prayer Man - maybe even stronger.

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by beowulf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 2:24 pm

Normally, I would buy that scenario...
but here, it's not like this woman is on record, so what would be the point?


Yeah, I take your point, I thought she had gone to the Feds. Anyone that has evidence in a murder case-- any murder case-- and doesn't bring it to the authorities' attention is not worth being taken seriously.

What I described above is called (I learned last month) "recreating evidence", its how federal agents use NSA surveillance in criminal cases by pretending they got it from another source.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/the-nsa-is-giving-your-phone-records-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

I haven't really tracked the North Beckley issue. If he wasn't living there, where was he sleeping? Does that mean he didn't change his shirt and retrieve his revolver?

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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by greg parker on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 3:01 pm

Yeah, I take your point, I thought she had gone to the Feds. Anyone that has evidence in a murder case-- any murder case-- and doesn't bring it to the authorities' attention is not worth being taken seriously. 

What I described above is called (I learned last month) "recreating evidence",

its how federal agents use NSA surveillance in criminal cases by pretending they got it from another source.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/the-nsa-is-giving-your-phone-records-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

I haven't really tracked the North Beckley issue. If he wasn't living there, where was he sleeping? Does that mean he didn't change his shirt and retrieve his revolver?
Most of the Nth Beckley stuff has been happening behind the scenes. It will be laid out eventually, in some form or another, but that's largely up to Lee as he has been the main driver of it.


As for where he was sleeping - we don't know. I suspect he was staying at the Paine residence all along - but I think that's far from a majority view. As Lee has said though, if he wasn't living at Nth Beckley, the answer to where he was living is "somewhere else". It's no different to the assassination. If we can show Oswald was innocent, it doesn't follow that we need to take on the responsibility of finding who was guilty.

Just on spook terminology... the key spook term for a lot of things in this case - including Nth Beckley is "backstopping".

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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: A sinister phone call from Irving, Texas.

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 04 Sep 2013, 7:36 pm

beowulf wrote:Yeah, I take your point, I thought she had gone to the Feds. Anyone that has evidence in a murder case-- any murder case-- and doesn't bring it to the authorities' attention is not worth being taken seriously.

Maybe she did, and the interview is amongst the still classified files. But yes, it does seems strange that the FBI would allow the information about the Oxnard call to be made available to the public, and not the Irving/North Richland Hills call.

What I described above is called (I learned last month) "recreating evidence", its how federal agents use NSA surveillance in criminal cases by pretending they got it from another source.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/the-switch/wp/2013/08/05/the-nsa-is-giving-your-phone-records-to-the-dea-and-the-dea-is-covering-it-up/

I haven't really tracked the North Beckley issue. If he wasn't living there, where was he sleeping? Does that mean he didn't change his shirt and retrieve his revolver?'

What revolver? He was framed inside the Texas Theatre by Gerald Hill with the revolver used to kill Tippit. I'll bet my life on it.

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