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suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

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suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by greg parker on Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:06 am

Posted by Lee Farley at the Ed Forum on Dec 10, 2012.


Sean,

Want to read something interesting?

On June 15, 1978, William Ira Trantham from the Dallas County Sheriff's Office was interviewed by Jack Moriarty of the HSCA. The interview as follows:

Name: Ira Trantham
Date: 6/15/78
Time: 1400
Address: 10119 Newcomb Street, Dallas, Texas

INTERVIEW: Watched the motorcade pass Main and Harwood from the press room of Dallas Police Department Headquarters. Then checked out a cruiser and headed in the opposite direction not having an assignment germane to the Presidential visit.

Had not driven more than a few blocks when the police department radio blared the shooting report at Dealey Plaza. Reversing his direction he responded to that area parking in the freight yard near the rear of the TSBD. Observing uniformed men in the rear with shotguns, then seeing Inspector Sawyer at the front door, he reported for instructions. Sawyer advised they were still not certain where the gunfire came from, but the best guess at that time was the TSBD.

By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W. H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed "acting suspiciously" on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being there.

N.B. The name Desham above should read Denham.

New York World-Telegram an The Sun, Nov 22, 1963

"Police found a foreign made rifle. Sheriff's officers were questioning a young man picked up at the scene."
http://www.downhold.org/lowry/pres.jpg

The Knickerbocker News, Nov 23, 1963
"Sheriff's officers took a young man into custody at the scene and questioned him behind locked doors."  
http://www.downhold.org/lowry/pres90.jpg

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by beowulf on Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:28 am

I was skimming through Dallas PD JFK files (Box 5)  and noticed something curious-- weren't these guys supposed to have been stopped in Daltex Building?
-----------------------------

Voluntary Statement, by Jim Braden. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository after the assassination, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001272 1 page 05 02 011 1272-001.gif 1271-002.gif
23. Voluntary Statement, by Larry Florer. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001286 1 page 05 02 023 1286-001.gif
(emphasis added)

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by greg parker on Sun 08 Sep 2013, 10:44 am

beowulf wrote:I was skimming through Dallas PD JFK files (Box 5)  and noticed something curious-- weren't these guys supposed to have been stopped in Daltex Building?
-----------------------------

Voluntary Statement, by Jim Braden. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository after the assassination, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001272 1 page 05 02 011 1272-001.gif 1271-002.gif
23. Voluntary Statement, by Larry Florer. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001286 1 page 05 02 023 1286-001.gif
(emphasis added)
Yep.

Had to be one one of these guys. Third floor just sticks out.

Their stories are very similar - and Braden's in particular just does not make much sense with someone escorting him up and then back down and then deciding he shouldn't have done and reporting him!


I think it's time to revisit the "Eddie Piper / janitor escorting LHO upstairs" stories because of the similarities to Braden's story.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by greg parker on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 8:51 am

By this time they were joined by Jerry Hill and he and Hill went inside. Hill continued upstairs and an officer W. H. Desham (#7140 DPD) approached him with a prisoner. Advised this subject had been observed "acting suspiciously" on the third floor without a reasonable explanation for being there.


N.B. The name Desham above should read Denham.
Denham was one of the officers who went to the aid of the "epileptic". The WC asked Curry to give full details of all officers in the vicinity, duties etc. Statements were also obtained from each.  Denham doesn't mention anything about being in either building - let alone anything about an arrest.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=11654&relPageId=2
In all honesty, I don't know what to make of it.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by beowulf on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 10:51 am

Interesting that Braden and Florer were taken by officers to Sheriff's office for interrogation and not city police station.

Denham was a city cop, if he was going to take someone in, it wouldn't be the sheriff's office. Just as an aside, Its common in US cities (but not very sensible really) for a mayor appointed police chief to handle law enforcement inside city limits, while outside city limits (but within same county), an elected sheriff is in charge of law enforcement. Since the sheriff also has duties to guard the courthouse and perform other duties for judges, his office is invariably actually within the city police's jurisdiction.
EDIT: Its one thing if the sheriff's office was helping out with witness interviews, but if these guys were caught inside TSBD for no good reason, they'd fall under the category of "suspects". Captain Fritz would have wanted to have a chat with them.

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by Guest on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 12:09 pm

In the minutes after the shooting stopped, the TSBD was as leaky as a sieve.

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=146425&relPageId=42
Paul K. Wilkins: DPD #1469

....SIx flights of stairs later the sixth floor resembled a maze. There were stacks of books in all kinds of configurations. Some of the piles had five or six cartons and others had more. There were a number of officers from different agencies already present. I found out later there were even a couple of officers from the Federal Game Management Agency. There were Sheriffs Deputies and both uniformed and plainclothes Dallas Police Officers. ...

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by greg parker on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 12:21 pm

Can't recall the exact details, but there was some sort of split in the workload so that those deemed to have potentially the most important information were interviewed by sheriff's office and the rest by city police. Or possibly the other way around. Not sure where "suspect" fits in that, but I would hope you're right. But then, I guess the guideline would be how long it took Fritz to show any interest in Frazier. I think it was a fair while, so it does make you wonder about the man's priorities....

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3453
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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

Post by Guest on Mon 09 Sep 2013, 9:23 pm

I still think it a possiblility that the "arrests" we are told were made in other buildings were actually made in the TSBD and later moved.  We cannot ignore that Baker's first day affidavit stated 3rd or 4th floor.

Anything that has got Gerry Hill's name attached to it is suspect IMO and he did not go anywhere near the Dal-Tex building after the shooting.

Let's not forget Fritz's little detour for his chat with Bill Decker immediately after his short stint in the TSBD rather than going out to Irving like he said he was going to.

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Re: suspect arrested on the 3rd floor

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