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Prayer Man Poll

Page 1 of 7 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next

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Who is Prayer Man?

2% 2% 
[ 1 ]
79% 79% 
[ 33 ]
2% 2% 
[ 1 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
0% 0% 
[ 0 ]
10% 10% 
[ 4 ]
7% 7% 
[ 3 ]
 
Total Votes : 42

Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Thu 19 Sep 2013, 11:08 pm

Where do you stand?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Wed 25 Sep 2013, 5:35 am

I voted Oswald but I wish I could see a photo of Shelly.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Goban Saor on Wed 25 Sep 2013, 7:03 am

My understanding of Sean Murphy's EF 'Prayer Man' exposition is that he has proved that the chances of Prayer Man being anyone other than Oswald are as close to zero as makes no difference, and the chances of him being Shelley are precisely zero.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by ianlloyd on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:28 pm

Why isn't "An Unknown Male" listed?

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 7:46 pm

ianlloyd wrote:Why isn't "An Unknown Male" listed?
Ian,

Only a max of 10 options allowed, and I was trying to second guess what others might come up with. Okay. I also threw in one or two joke ones...

"unknown female" tick
"ray edward lewis" tick
"houston st employee" tick
"unknown male" I think is more or less covered though by "stranger from the crowd".

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by ianlloyd on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:29 pm

Hi Greg,

Yes, I realised that some were jokes, just didn't realise the 10 item limit.

For my tuppence worth at the moment, I'm going with an unidentified male...I think that, to be standing in that particular location, it had to be someone who worked in the TSBD or had some close association with it, I can't imagine a complete stranger going up the steps and standing there. I think it's a man who looks relatively comfortable standing there. I'm not entirely convinced at the moment that it's Oswald just based on interpretation of various testimonies etc. and a blurred image, though I do appreciate Sean's work (and, of course, all others but primarily it's Sean's work) on this and I am leaning more toward Oswald, and am actually convincing myself more as I write this!!!!...

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Thu 26 Sep 2013, 9:48 pm

Ian,

when this was first brought to my attentions (I think a few years back, and I think by Sean himself), it suited my own hypothesis to accept it was Oswald - but I couldn't do it. For the same reason others were initially reluctant. This person looked too solidly built to be Oswald.

I think that has been adequately explained now, and Sean has made the case for eliminating all other reasonable possibilities.  

Maybe "unknown female impersonator" is the closest we can get to your position!

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Tue 12 Nov 2013, 3:21 am

I see someone voted for "A Stranger from the crowd."

Hmmm.  I wonder who cast that vote?

Anyone but Oswald, eh?  Give me strength.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 6:00 am

The fact that no one can recall PM leads me to believe he is Oswald. Never mind the other fact that PM looks like Oswald.
I find it odd that he has not been accounted for.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Albert Rossi on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 7:10 am

Lee Farley wrote:I see someone voted for "A Stranger from the crowd."

Hmmm.  I wonder who cast that vote?

Anyone but Oswald, eh?  Give me strength.
You think it might have been the visitor we had on 10/XI/2013 who was booted?

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by deepsnow1 on Sat 05 Apr 2014, 5:51 am

I have been wondering, with films and photos, such as the one being scrutinized, is computer enhancement a possibility?

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Sat 05 Apr 2014, 8:32 pm

The task is to elicit useful information from enhancements. Enlargements don't always result in the required resolution to say, for example, whether Prayer Man is holding a Coke or an apple or a cat. There's a real tricky interplay in getting a bunch of pixels to not say nonsense vs. finding a hidden gunman atop the stockade fence in the Nix footage. Robin Unger is probably the best computer photo-enhancer around and the Couch & Darnell films are too blurry for him to get unequivocal resolution of Prayer Man's face. You have to achieve photo-certainty in order to convince the legion of doubters. They don't have the time of day for logic-filled arguments eliminating all other candidates but LHO.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 3:15 pm

I would make two points on this issue. The image is not nearly clear enough to determine with certainty who that is.

If it was Oswald then why did he never claim in his interrogation or in televised statements that he was standing outside during the shooting? That would have given him the perfect alibi and undoubtedly, some of his coworkers would have corroborated him.

But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Terry W. Martin on Mon 21 Apr 2014, 8:02 pm

Robert Harris wrote:But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.

Actually, I believe it was in Capt. Fritz' notes that he claimed he "had lunch with Bill Shelley out front".

Fritz notes at Mary Ferrell Foundation
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=29103&relPageId=3

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 6:26 am

Robert Harris wrote:I would make two points on this issue. The image is not nearly clear enough to determine with certainty who that is.

If it was Oswald then why did he never claim in his interrogation or in televised statements that he was standing outside during the shooting? That would have given him the perfect alibi and undoubtedly, some of his coworkers would have corroborated him.

But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.
If I recall correctly:

  • In his same-day statement to reporters, Ochus Campbell said Oswald was seen on the first floor just after the shots.
  • According to the 11/22 Bookhout-Hosty joint interrogation report, Oswald claimed to be on the first floor.
  • Both the Dallas Morning News and  the New York Herald Tribune (written on 11/22, published 11/23) reported Oswald being spotted in a (small) storage room on the ground floor immediately after the shooting.
Any first day stuff is more reliable than later "adjusted" statements to help "Fritz the case" (cinch). Oswald said he was on the first floor. He was reportedly seen on the first floor.

In the relatively few moments he had before the press, I don't know why he didn't say certain things either. Maybe had he known he was going to be killed while in police custody, he might have blurted out some things out in desperation.
 
As far as his coworkers corroborating him if he said he was standing outside, Buell Wesley Frazier wouldn't even identify himself when shown the Prayer Man picture standing precisely where he testified to be standing!


 
 
There are certain "things" people just don't talk about with this case. 

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 7:15 am

Stan Dane wrote:
Robert Harris wrote:I would make two points on this issue. The image is not nearly clear enough to determine with certainty who that is.

If it was Oswald then why did he never claim in his interrogation or in televised statements that he was standing outside during the shooting? That would have given him the perfect alibi and undoubtedly, some of his coworkers would have corroborated him.

But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.
If I recall correctly:

  • In his same-day statement to reporters, Ochus Campbell said Oswald was seen on the first floor just after the shots.
  • According to the 11/22 Bookhout-Hosty joint interrogation report, Oswald claimed to be on the first floor.
  • Both the Dallas Morning News and  the New York Herald Tribune (written on 11/22, published 11/23) reported Oswald being spotted in a (small) storage room on the ground floor immediately after the shooting.

Any first day stuff is more reliable than later "adjusted" statements to help "Fritz the case" (cinch). Oswald said he was on the first floor. He was reportedly seen on the first floor.

In the relatively few moments he had before the press, I don't know why he didn't say certain things either. Maybe had he known he was going to be killed while in police custody, he might have blurted out some things out in desperation.
 
As far as his coworkers corroborating him if he said he was standing outside, Buell Wesley Frazier wouldn't even identify himself when shown the Prayer Man picture standing precisely where he testified to be standing!


 
 
There are certain "things" people just don't talk about with this case. 
Oswald didn't initially claim any knowledge he was being charged with JFK. If true, he had no need to give the world his alibi. I don't think he was afforded too many chances after being arraigned - except in the interrogations where his words were not uniformly recorded with any accuracy.

From "the Last Words..."

Midnight Press Conference
When asked, "Did you kill the President?" Oswald replied, "No. I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question. . . . I did not do it. I did not do it. . . . I did not shoot anyone."


He was (allegedly) arraigned a couple of hours later... ("allegedly" because it was not done according to Texas law).

Robert, your argument here is what I would expect from McAdams or DVP.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 10:15 am

terlin wrote:
Robert Harris wrote:But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.

Actually, I believe it was in Capt. Fritz' notes that he claimed he "had lunch with Bill Shelley out front".

Fritz notes at Mary Ferrell Foundation
http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=29103&relPageId=3

While I don't agree with everything Pat Spears believes, I think he did a good job analyzing this issue. From his site: (quoting)

According to Captain Will Fritz's handwritten notes on his 11-22 interrogation of Oswald, Oswald claimed that in the hour before the shooting, he'd went "to 1st floor had lunch/out with Bill Shelley in front."  While this might sound like Oswald was claiming to have had lunch out in front of the building with Bill Shelley, Fritz's typed up notes reflect that, at the time of the shooting, Oswald said "he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor." (24H265) This suggests then that Oswald told Fritz he saw Shelley at a different point, presumably when he was leaving the building after the shooting.

Oswald was asked about this a second time, in an interrogation performed the next day. [size=13]This time, however, he was asked if anyone could confirm he'd eaten his lunch on the first floor. According to Fritz's typed-up notes, Oswald said he'd "ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him. One of them was called 'Junior' and the other man was a little short man whose name he did not know." (24H267) The report of Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley confirms this account, moreover, stating "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described one of them as 'Junior,' a colored boy, and the other was a little short negro boy." The report of FBI agent James Bookhout (WR622), however, gives a slightly different account of Oswald's statements. Bookhout relates: "Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room of the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two negro employees walking through the room in this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called 'Junior' and the other was a short individual whose name he could not recall, but whom he would be able to recognize." Bookhout's version in which Oswald did not eat lunch with these men, but merely saw them walk by, for that matter, receives solid support from an unexpected source: Fritz's origin[size=13]al notes. In his hand-written notes, Fritz reports that Oswald "[/size][/size]saw two negroes come in one Jr. - & short negro" and says nothing about Oswald's claiming to have had lunch with these men.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 2:31 pm

Robert Harris wrote:While I don't agree with everything Pat Spears believes, I think he did a good job analyzing this issue..........
I believe he would prefer to be known as Pat Speer.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Stan Dane on Tue 22 Apr 2014, 7:23 pm

Robert Harris wrote:While I don't agree with everything Pat Spears believes, I think he did a good job analyzing this issue. From his site: (quoting)

According to Captain Will Fritz's handwritten notes on his 11-22 interrogation of Oswald, Oswald claimed that in the hour before the shooting, he'd went "to 1st floor had lunch/out with Bill Shelley in front."  While this might sound like Oswald was claiming to have had lunch out in front of the building with Bill Shelley, Fritz's typed up notes reflect that, at the time of the shooting, Oswald said "he was having his lunch about that time on the first floor." (24H265) This suggests then that Oswald told Fritz he saw Shelley at a different point, presumably when he was leaving the building after the shooting.

Oswald was asked about this a second time, in an interrogation performed the next day. [size=13]This time, however, he was asked if anyone could confirm he'd eaten his lunch on the first floor. According to Fritz's typed-up notes, Oswald said he'd "ate lunch with some of the colored boys who worked with him. One of them was called 'Junior' and the other man was a little short man whose name he did not know." (24H267) The report of Secret Service Inspector Thomas Kelley confirms this account, moreover, stating "He said he ate his lunch with the colored boys who worked with him. He described one of them as 'Junior,' a colored boy, and the other was a little short negro boy." The report of FBI agent James Bookhout (WR622), however, gives a slightly different account of Oswald's statements. Bookhout relates: "Oswald stated that on November 22, 1963, he had eaten lunch in the lunch room of the Texas School Book Depository, alone, but recalled possibly two negro employees walking through the room in this period. He stated possibly one of these employees was called 'Junior' and the other was a short individual whose name he could not recall, but whom he would be able to recognize." Bookhout's version in which Oswald did not eat lunch with these men, but merely saw them walk by, for that matter, receives solid support from an unexpected source: Fritz's origin[size=13]al notes. In his hand-written notes, Fritz reports that Oswald "[/size][/size]saw two negroes come in one Jr. - & short negro" and says nothing about Oswald's claiming to have had lunch with these men.
I'm struggling to follow the point you're trying to make here, Robert. You quote Pat Speer but I had to go to his website to get the big picture. The main heading was "The Strange Reliance on Charles Givens." The first sentence sets the tone:
Pat Speer wrote:First, we look into the question of whether or not Oswald was on the sixth floor in the moments leading up to the shooting. 
This is the question to be explored. Are you trying to answer this question with the words you quoted? If you are, I'm not seeing it. Pat's entire section is a long piece—9,372 words long. I read for a few minutes but my eyes began to glaze over (that tends to happen when I labor through long wordy paragraphs). I gave up before I could determine how Pat Speer answers this question.
 
I'll tell you somebody I think analyzes this question brilliantly and succinctly: Sean Murphy. Let me quote him:
Sean Murphy wrote:If you had a suspect for the shooting of President Kennedy in front of you and had just one question to ask him, that question would surely be: Where exactly were you at the time of the shooting?
 
Yet, as we have already seen, there is a remarkable silence in the interrogation reports when it comes to telling us how Oswald actually answered this question. All we are told is that he claimed to have been on the first floor when the President passed the building. That's it. "On the first floor." Could be anywhere on the first floor.
 
I submit that this striking vagueness is indicative not of Oswald's refusal to give specifics but of the 'investigating' authorities' wise refusal to allow his all too specific answer be entered into the official record. For that answer was a disastrous one: I was out front having my lunch at that time.
 
**
 
There is, curiously, only one interrogation report that actually goes so far as to claim that Oswald explicitly admitted to not having watched the motorcade. That report is titled "First Interview of Lee Harvey Oswald". It is written by Secret Service Inspector Thomas J. Kelley.
 
Here's the sentence that is meant to break the hearts of anyone daring to claim that Oswald was indeed out front:
 
I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not.
 
Game over for those longing to cry, Stop the lies, Oswald outside!
Right?
Wrong.
 
Here's that devastating sentence in context in Kelley's report:
 
At this time Captain Fritz showed a Selective Service Card that was taken out of his wallet which bore the name of Alex Hidell. Oswald refused to discuss this after being asked for an explanation of it, both by Fritz and by James Bookhout, the FBI Agent. I asked him if he viewed the parade and he said he had not. I then asked him if he had shot the President and he said he had not. I asked him if he has shot governor Connally and he said he had not.
 
The content of the sentence in green is clearly reflected in rough notes jotted down during the interrogation.
The content of the sentence in blue is clearly reflected in rough notes jotted down during the interrogation.
The content of the sentence in purple is clearly reflected in rough notes jotted down during the interrogation.
The sentence in red is not however reflected in any way in rough notes jotted down during the interrogation.
 
How do we know this? Kelley's notes have never seen the light of day, have they? Didn't he destroy them after using them to write up his report?
 
Correct.
 
And yet... even though we don't have Kelley's notes anymore, we do have access to the notes of someone else who was listening closely to Oswald's answers during the exact same moments of that interrogation session.
 
Who was that someone else?
 
Does this look familiar to anyone?
 


That's right--it's Captain Fritz's handwriting.
But these are not, contrary to myth, Captain Fritz's contemporaneous interrogation notes.
 
They are, like all five pages of the much-ballyhooed 'Fritz notes', in reality a transcription of the contemporaneous interrogation notes of FBI Special Agent James W. Bookhout.
Much better and much easier to follow. It's all exhaustively covered here:
 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=1
 
It answers the question of whether Oswald was on the sixth floor in the moments leading up to the shooting.

(Spoiler alert: He wasn't.)

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Sat 26 Apr 2014, 1:50 am

greg parker wrote:
Stan Dane wrote:
Robert Harris wrote:I would make two points on this issue. The image is not nearly clear enough to determine with certainty who that is.

If it was Oswald then why did he never claim in his interrogation or in televised statements that he was standing outside during the shooting? That would have given him the perfect alibi and undoubtedly, some of his coworkers would have corroborated him.

But neither he nor anyone else made that claim.
If I recall correctly:

  • In his same-day statement to reporters, Ochus Campbell said Oswald was seen on the first floor just after the shots.
  • According to the 11/22 Bookhout-Hosty joint interrogation report, Oswald claimed to be on the first floor.
  • Both the Dallas Morning News and  the New York Herald Tribune (written on 11/22, published 11/23) reported Oswald being spotted in a (small) storage room on the ground floor immediately after the shooting.

Any first day stuff is more reliable than later "adjusted" statements to help "Fritz the case" (cinch). Oswald said he was on the first floor. He was reportedly seen on the first floor.

In the relatively few moments he had before the press, I don't know why he didn't say certain things either. Maybe had he known he was going to be killed while in police custody, he might have blurted out some things out in desperation.
 
As far as his coworkers corroborating him if he said he was standing outside, Buell Wesley Frazier wouldn't even identify himself when shown the Prayer Man picture standing precisely where he testified to be standing!


 
 
There are certain "things" people just don't talk about with this case. 
Oswald didn't initially claim any knowledge he was being charged with JFK. If true, he had no need to give the world his alibi. I don't think he was afforded too many chances after being arraigned - except in the interrogations where his words were not uniformly recorded with any accuracy.

From "the Last Words..."

Midnight Press Conference
When asked, "Did you kill the President?" Oswald replied, "No. I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question. . . . I did not do it. I did not do it. . . . I did not shoot anyone."


He was (allegedly) arraigned a couple of hours later... ("allegedly" because it was not done according to Texas law).

Robert, your argument here is what I would expect from McAdams or DVP.

Mr. Parker, I am disappointed that as an admin you would post such an ugly, personal insult. By equating me with McAdams and Von Pein, you are obviously suggesting that I am dishonest.

You are wrong.

I go with the evidence. I don't base my conclusions on what I want to have happened. And the simple fact is that you have no evidence at all, that Oswald was outside during the shooting. He said he was in the lunch room during the attack and in a televised statement, was crystal clear that he was inside the building then.

LEE HARVEY OSWALD: I don’t know what this is all about.
1st REPORTER: Did you kill the president?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: No, sir, I didn’t. People keep— [crosstalk ] Sir?
1st REPORTER: Did you shoot the president?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: I work in that building.
1st REPORTER: Were you in the building at the time?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir.

Should you at some point, choose to apologize for equating me with this scum, I will be happy to continue this discussion. But it's a waste of my time to discuss the crime with people who are this narrow minded.



Robert Harris

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Stan Dane on Sat 26 Apr 2014, 3:13 am

Robert Harris wrote:Mr. Parker, I am disappointed that as an admin you would post such an ugly, personal insult. By equating me with McAdams and Von Pein, you are obviously suggesting that I am dishonest.

You are wrong.
To me, Greg was focusing on your argument, not on you. Big difference, I think.
Robert Harris wrote:I go with the evidence. I don't base my conclusions on what I want to have happened. And the simple fact is that you have no evidence at all, that Oswald was outside during the shooting. He said he was in the lunch room during the attack and in a televised statement, was crystal clear that he was inside the building then.
 
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: I don’t know what this is all about.
1st REPORTER: Did you kill the president?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: No, sir, I didn’t. People keep— [crosstalk ] Sir?
1st REPORTER: Did you shoot the president?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: I work in that building.
1st REPORTER: Were you in the building at the time?
LEE HARVEY OSWALD: Naturally, if I work in that building, yes, sir.
It's okey dokey to focus on the evidence. I think that's what we all try to do here. So why don't we do just that and consider perhaps a richer context to this exchange. Since our good friend Sean Murphy addresses this so well, let's quote him:
Sean Murphy wrote:I think it is reasonable to allow for Oswald's having considered that front entrance area as part of the building. It's not as if the front door gave out immediately on to the street: there were steps, and those steps were roofed as well as enclosed on both sides. Very much part of the building.
 
Only when one had stepped down off the last step on to the street pavement could one be said to have properly left the building.
 
Two further things to bear in mind here.
 
First, Oswald doesn't say "I was in the building" in response to the question, "Where were you at the time of the shooting?".
He is instead asked a very different question: "Were you in the building at the time?".
And delivers a sharp rebuttal to the reporter's clear insinuation that his being there was somehow suspicious in itself: "Naturally if I work in that building, yes sir."
 
Second, intonation is important.
The reporter doesn't ask, "Were you IN the building at the time?".
He asks, "Were you in the BUILDING at the TIME?"
Oswald, who is having questions shouted at him left, right and centre, understands the question to relate to his basic LOCATION at the TIME of the shooting.
And he confirms that, yes, the TSBD was his location at the time.
He wasn't on the sidewalk on Houston St. He wasn't on the overpass. He wasn't in his rooming house. He wasn't at the movies.
He was at his place of work.
Hence the exasperated emphases: "NATURALLY, if I WORK in that BUILDING, YES, sir."
I agree with what you said above. Lee Oswald was inside the building. He was in the doorway. That's part of the building as I define it. I think as Lee defined it too. And I believe Lee is Prayer Man.
Robert Harris wrote:Should you at some point, choose to apologize for equating me with this scum, I will be happy to continue this discussion. But it's a waste of my time to discuss the crime with people who are this narrow minded.
Don't be so sensitive. I don't think you were being equated with scum. I actually tried following some of the things you posted, but what you were trying to say wasn't clear to me. So I looked at the evidence myself and commented. It's what we do here.

It's good to be open minded but not so open that your brains fall out. So color me a little narrow in the right places.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Terry W. Martin on Sat 26 Apr 2014, 3:58 am

Well put, Stan.

Robert,

It is easy to see how someone could take some of the evidence one way while another takes it the opposite. But that is the nature of so much of this case.

That is why we discuss it in this forum.

Preconceptions are not conducive to open discussion and if your presentation sounds a lot like MacAdams or DVP then perhaps that is something that should be worked on, not by attacking the party pointing it out to you.

I believe that impression is shared by others here - not just Greg - and the only person who called you dishonest was yourself.

Many people tend to identify with their ideas and this makes it difficult to separate an attack on the idea with an attack on the person.

Maintain a little focus.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Sat 26 Apr 2014, 6:13 am

Ironically, it is a tactic of McAdams et al to take a comment regarding an argument and pretend it was about them in order to de-rail the whole discussion.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by Guest on Sun 27 Apr 2014, 2:00 am

I personally liked Robert Harris' reply, and thought like he that it was an insult to be lumped in with McAdams & Von Pein simply because he had reservations about accepting Prayer Man as Oswald. It may have been an offhand remark, but remarks like that abound around here, where there is a tendency to gang-think behavior, discouraging independent thought & opinions.

Robert got me thinking that the Prayer Man ID is nothing you could take to the bank, so to speak. A case could be made that PM is actually the Oswald lookalike captured in a tramps photo about 2:15.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/3tramps.htm

Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever come up with a satisfactory hypothesis as to who that fellow is.

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

Post by greg parker on Sun 27 Apr 2014, 3:01 am

Richard Gilbride wrote:I personally liked Robert Harris' reply, and thought like he that it was an insult to be lumped in with McAdams & Von Pein simply because he had reservations about accepting Prayer Man as Oswald. It may have been an offhand remark, but remarks like that abound around here, where there is a tendency to gang-think behavior, discouraging independent thought & opinions.

Robert got me thinking that the Prayer Man ID is nothing you could take to the bank, so to speak. A case could be made that PM is actually the Oswald lookalike captured in a tramps photo about 2:15.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/3tramps.htm

Nobody, to my knowledge, has ever come up with a satisfactory hypothesis as to who that fellow is.
Richard,

was what I said in regard to Robert or what Robert said? 

He is not stupid. He is capable of reading what is in front of him. It was not about him. He knows it. You know it. But pretending it was about him did give him an excuse to bail out.

Are you being serious? The tramp looks nothing like Oswald, much less PM. 

Group-think is an indicator of a cult. For cults, look under Harvey and Lee. We're more your garden variety rabble.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Prayer Man Poll

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