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Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

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Oswald: Dyslexic or Aspie?

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Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Sun 28 Mar 2010, 11:31 am

Oswald’s periodic poor spelling: Oswald was known for his poor spelling and messy writing. However, there are examples of his writings which bear no misspellings.

From Dr Asperger’s original case-notes:
"His handwriting, as would be expected from his general clumsiness, was very poor. He carried on writing carelessly, and messily, crossing out words, lines going up and down, the slant changing. His spelling, however, was reasonably accurate. As long as his attention was focused on one word, he knew how to spell it. It was very significant then that he made more spelling errors when copying than at dictation. Really, one would expect that copying should not present any problems at all since the words were in front of him; but this very simple and straightforward task simply did not interest him".


Common Signs of Dyslexia – Adult (my comments in brackets )
The difficulties noted below are often associated with dyslexia if they are unexpected for the individual's age, educational level, or cognitive abilities. A qualified diagnostician can test a person to determine if he or she is truly dyslexic.

* May hide reading problems. (did not apply to Oswald)

* May spell poorly; relies on others to correct spelling. (Oswald was a poor speller, but not always)

* Avoids writing; may not be able to write. (Oswald did not avoid writing)

* Often very competent in oral language. (unknown)

* Relies on memory; may have an excellent memory. (appeared to have very good memory)

* Often has good "people" skills. (Oswald generally had poor people skills)

* Often is spatially talented; professions include, but are not limited, to engineers, architects, designers, artists and craftspeople, mathematicians, physicists, physicians (esp. surgeons and orthopedists), and dentists. (n/a)

* May be very good at "reading" people/intuitive. (the opposite may be closer)

* In jobs is often working well below their intellectual capacity. (did apply to Oswald)

* May have difficulty with planning, organization and management of time, materials and tasks - SEE EXECUTIVE FUNCTION (does not appear to apply to Oswald)

* Often entrepreneurs. (n/a)

Sources:
Basic Facts about Dyslexia: What Every Layperson Ought to Know - © Copyright 1993, 2nd ed. 1998. The International Dyslexia Association, Baltimore, MD.


Typical adult symptoms of Asperger’s
More males than females have Asperger syndrome. While every person who has the syndrome will experience different symptoms and severity of symptoms, some of the more common characteristics include: (my comment in brackets)
• Average or above average intelligence (applied to Oswald)
• Inability to think in abstract ways (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Difficulties in empathising with others (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Problems with understanding another person’s point of view (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Hampered conversational ability (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Problems with controlling feelings such as anger, depression and anxiety (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Adherence to routines and schedules, and stress if expected routine is disrupted (Oswald was a prolific writer of “to do” lists)
• Inability to manage appropriate social conduct (some evidence that this applied to Oswald)
• Specialised fields of interest or hobbies. (Oswald memorised the Marine Manual at age 15, and had an ongoing special interest in political movements and learning languages)

The emotions of other people
A person with Asperger syndrome may have trouble understanding the emotions of other people, and the subtle messages that are sent by facial expression, eye contact and body language are often missed. (Oswald could not make eye contact with Ruanne Kloepfer on her visit to the Oswald residence in Sept, 1963) Because of this, a person with Asperger's syndrome might be seen as egotistical, selfish or uncaring.(these terms or similar were used by a number of the White Russians who met Oswald in Dallas) These are unfair labels, because the affected person is neurologically unable to understand other people’s emotional states. They are usually shocked, upset and remorseful when told their actions were hurtful or inappropriate.

Sexual codes of conduct
Research into the sexual understanding of people with Asperger's syndrome is in its infancy. Studies suggest that affected people are as interested in sex as anyone else, but many don’t have the social or empathetic skills to successfully manage adult relationships.(Marina has mentioned the problems they had in this area)

Delayed understanding is common
For example, a person with Asperger's syndrome aged in their 20s typically has the sexual codes of conduct befitting a teenager. Even affected people who are high achieving and academically or vocationally successful have trouble negotiating the ‘hidden rules’ of courtship. Inappropriate sexual behaviour can result. (despite not being able to make eye contact with Ruanne Kleopfer, she nevertheless felt he was flirting with her – despite Marina being home at the time)

Being a partner and parent
Some affected people can maintain relationships and parent children, although there are challenges.

A common marital problem is unfair distribution of responsibilities. For example, the partner of a person with Asperger's syndrome may be used to doing everything in the relationship when it is just the two of them. However, the partner may need practical and emotional support once children come along, which the person with Asperger's syndrome is ill equipped to provide. When the partner expresses frustration or becomes upset that they’re given no help of any kind, the person with Asperger's syndrome is typically baffled. Tension in the relationship often makes their symptoms worse. (Marina often complained he did not help enough)

The workplace
The Commonwealth Department of Family and Community Services, in conjunction with a range of specialist employment services, helps to place people with disabilities in the workforce. A person with Asperger syndrome may find their job opportunities limited by their disability. It may help to choose a vocation that takes into account the individual’s symptoms, and plays to the strengths rather than the weaknesses. (I believe this is exactly how he was used as an intelligence asset/agent – they played to his strengths)

Source:
Autism Victoria

Dyslexia and Learning Foreign Languages
“Early research into the learning of another language suggested that because dyslexic children normally manage to cope with the spoken and listening aspects of their own language, there was no reason whey they would not cope with a foreign language. This has not generally proved to be the case however as my own research has found.” (Source: Margaret Crombie, Foreign Language Learning and Dyslexia, as adapted for the Dyslexia Yearbook, 1999).

Asperger’s and Learning Foreign Languages
“Sometimes the person with Asperger’s Syndrome can have a natural talent and special interest in foreign languages. The person can acquire the ability to speak many languages without the pronunciation errors expected when a typical person from a specific home country learns that language. For example, when an Englishman learns French, a Native of France can easily detect that the speaker’s first language is English. When a person with Asperger’s Syndrome learns a foreign language, there can be a remarkable ability to pronounce the words as spoken by a native speaker. This can lead to a successful career in languages such as a translator or interpreter.”
(Source: The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome By Tony Attwood p 225)

Opportunities to Diagnose Oswald with Dyslexia
The first real opportunity to detect dyslexia was at Youth House. By the early 1950s, there had already been studies done linking dyslexia with truancy and crime (Preyser 1935; Frederick & Bond 1936; Von Ebel 1949 - 1959 to name three) so YH no doubt did look for dyslexia in their observations and testing.

A second opportunity to detect it was in his entry into the Marines, though this may not have been sufficient to bar his entry.

Opportunities to Diagnose Oswald with Asperger’s
Such opportunities were non-existent as Asperger’s was not recognised in the US in the 1950s/60s.

If Oswald were to be tested for AS now, a definite diagnosis would be made from the following:

From the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders: DSM IV

"(I) Qualitative impairment in social interaction, as manifested by at least two of the following:

(A) marked impairments in the use of multiple nonverbal behaviors such as eye-to-eye gaze, facial expression, body posture, and gestures to regulate social interaction
(B) failure to develop peer relationships appropriate to developmental level
(C) a lack of spontaneous seeking to share enjoyment, interest or achievements with other people, (e.g.. by a lack of showing, bringing, or pointing out objects of interest to other people)
(D) lack of social or emotional reciprocity
Oswald had trouble with eye-to-eye gaze (per my interview with Ruanne Peters (nee Kloepfer). To some extent, B,C & D also applied to Oswald.

(II) Restricted repetitive & stereotyped patterns of behavior, interests and activities, as manifested by at least one of the following:
(A) encompassing preoccupation with one or more stereotyped and restricted patterns of interest that is abnormal either in intensity or focus
(B) apparently inflexible adherence to specific, nonfunctional routines or rituals
(C) stereotyped and repetitive motor mannerisms (e.g. hand or finger flapping or twisting, or complex whole-body movements)
(D) persistent preoccupation with parts of objects
Oswald had intense focus on the Marines at 15, memorising the entire manual. It was reported by the likes of Mike Paine and others that Oswald was inflexible in discussions on politics and when cornered would simply repeat the same arguments.

(III) The disturbance causes clinically significant impairments in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

It is a fact that Oswald worked in jobs below his intellectual capacity. It is inconclusive as to all the factors which contributed to this.

(IV) There is no clinically significant general delay in language (E.G. single words used by age 2 years, communicative phrases used by age 3 years)

No delay noted in the existing records.

(V) There is no clinically significant delay in cognitive development or in the development of age-appropriate self help skills, adaptive behavior (other than in social interaction) and curiosity about the environment in childhood.

No delay noted in the existing records.

(VI) Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or Schizophrenia."

The Warren Commission sought an opinion on Oswald from Dr Rome of the Mayo Clinic based on examples of Oswald’s writing. Dr Rome diagnosed “constitutional dyslexia”. This was once referred to as “word blindness”, and indeed, Dr Rome confirmed in his letter to the commission (CE 3134) that this is what he had in mind, saying, “It is a specific disorder of function and not merely the result of external factors. It was established early that difficulties in reading are always accompanied by difficulties in writing and spelling…” Thus Rome, never having examined Oswald, assumed incorrectly that Oswald had a reading disability as the basis of his spelling problems.

Conclusion
Asperger's Syndrome is similar to high functioning autism often characterised among other things by poorly developed social skills, narrow interests, special skills in learning languages, maths or music, and writing that is often less legible than that of peers. Dr Asperger referred to the group of children he studied as Little Professors due to their special gifts/knowledge and above average intelligence. People with AS usually lead "normal" lives -- and because of their intense and narrow interests, sometimes land in good careers in various fields.

Among those suspected of having AS:
Bill Gates
Albert Einstein
Wolfgang Mozart
Alan Turing

To that list, I now wish to add Lee Harvey Oswald.


Last edited by greg parker on Thu 08 Nov 2012, 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Thu 15 Dec 2011, 6:59 am

Oswald was diagnosed with a "personality pattern disturbance" while at YH by Dr Hartogs. Hans Asperger referred to the syndrome bearing his name as a "personality disorder".

Research has since shown that because of crossover "symptoms" between personality disorders and AS, incorrect diagnosis is possible. And Hartogs did not have the option of diagnosing AS as it was not recognized in the US.

Despite the battery of tests, apparent access to school records, and interviews with Oswald, one thing not diagnosed was dyslexia.

_________________
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Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Sun 27 May 2012, 10:55 pm

New Zealand psychiatrist pegs Oswald as having Asperger's (while explaining why she thinks Julian Assange has the syndrome)

I share Jack's concerns about Wikileaks being some kind of disinformation campaign. The hundreds of thousands of cables are extremely hard to research being released en masse like this and rarely contain information that isn't already available somewhere on the Internet.

I don't think Assange is the problem, though. I think US intelligence has been using him as a mule for their own purposes. I think Julian is a sweet boy with Asperger's. His lack of understanding of social relationships made him extremely easy to set up on the rape charges, and his concrete black and white thinking made it hard from him to recognize some of his associates (for example Applebaum, who teaches TOR to the Arab Spring activists) work for the CIA.

I think he's a classic Lee Harvey Oswald, another famous geek who seems to have suffered from Asperger's.

Dr Stuart Jeanne Bramhall
MAY 03, 2012 06:32 PM
http://open.salon.com/blog/stuartbramhall/2012/05/03/the_world_tomorrow_-_assange_as_chat_show_host

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Mon 18 Feb 2013, 12:59 pm

Ralph Cinque's at it again:

According to Ralph..."Oswald did not learn Russian on his own; it was impossible."
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/alt.assassination.jfk/S0sHHQuD7x0%5B1-25-false%5D

Here is someone diagnosed with high functioning (mild) autism
From Understanding the Nature of Autism And Asperger's Disorder: Forty Years Of Clinical Practice and Pioneering Research by Edward R Ritvo, MD.
http://books.google.com.au/books?id=-eHcvtAfhrcC&pg=PA140&lpg=PA140&dq=asperger%27s+%22learning+russian%22&source=bl&ots=Bv5ScnVr3S&sig=wLFf0dC4IIs6Nn9qG4IPKbz2-6U&hl=en&sa=X&ei=DW4hUcr0F42hmQWG9oDICQ&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=asperger's%20%22learning%20russian%22&f=false

Patient No. 2
This patient was a white male born in 1937 in Utah, the father of five autistic children (daughter born 1957, IQ 25; son born 1964, IQ 23; son born 1966, IQ 27; daughter born

1968, IQ 25: son born 1971, deceased 1987. IQ 35) and one nonautistic son. He had a high school education and 1 year of trade school. He was a clerk in a tool room for a railroad, working the midnight to 8 AM shift for more than 15 years. His income was always marginal, and he periodically required welfare assistance. His spouse was uncooperative. disheveled, withdrawn. and reported by a welfare worker to be borderline mentally retarded and depressed. At the time of the mental status examination, he was disheveled and obese, maintained a constant vacuous smile, had a flat affect. was socially inappropriate, had no sense of humor, and had an excellent rote memory. He spoke to his autistic children in Dutch and English. He knew three other languages and was learning Russian “just because I like languages". He was completely unaware of the social implications of his children’s disabilities and was falsely accused of molesting his autistic daughter. He attended only to concrete issues.


I highly recommend reading about all 15 patients discussed with mild adult autism. And think of Oswald as you read. If you don't note numerous similarities to LHO, you just haven't read enough about him.

Oswald of course, was even higher functioning and with a much higher IQ - having (imo) mild Asperger's(recalling that Hans Asperger had dubbed these kids Little Professors). Bear in mind that each individual is different. Some will have greater problems in some areas than others with the same condition. Some will have lesser problems in some areas.

In any case, a person with Asperger's or mild autism - could certainly learn Russian without any help. Cinque is an idiot surrounded by goons, con artists and fools.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by 9K116 on Tue 18 Jun 2013, 9:25 pm

I have few comments on this...

1. I tend to agree that LHO could suffer from Asperger syndrom.
2. However, this theory has some consequences, i.e. - person with Asperger traits will be bad choice for intelligence officer. Because of:
- problems with interacting with other persons - intelligence officer should be a good psychologist to feel, understand and manipulate other people. Person with poor social skills won't be able to perform such tasks.
- problems with controlling his own reactions and gestures - every intelligence officer should have certain skills of actor, to behave differently, according to needs of certain situation.

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Tue 18 Jun 2013, 9:56 pm

9K116 wrote:I have few comments on this... 


1. I tend to agree that LHO could suffer from Asperger syndrom. 
2. However, this theory has some consequences, i.e. - person with Asperger traits will be bad choice for intelligence officer. Because of: 
- problems with interacting with other persons - intelligence officer should be a good psychologist to feel, understand and manipulate other people. Person with poor social skills won't be able to perform such tasks. 
- problems with controlling his own reactions and gestures - every intelligence officer should have certain skills of actor, to behave differently, according to needs of certain situation.
You are absolutely correct - totally unsuited to be a CIA Officer.


But that is not the same thing as a CIA agent.

Agents are the foot soldiers for the officers and they may be fully aware of who the officer is, and what their own role is (known as a "witting" agent) - or they may not have any idea that they are being used by the CIA (known as an "unwitting" agent). 

Just for the record, I don't think he was working for the CIA (or ONI) when he went to the Soviet Union. I think he was on a mission for Ike's Special Group and given support by existing CIA operations (Redskin, Redsox & Redcap).

At some stage after that, he may have become a witting or unwitting agent of someone within the CIA as a rogue operation.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 7:21 am

I think both you and 9K116 have made some good points, Greg. I was never too comfortable believing that Oswald was a CIA agent when he went to the Soviet Union. And I suspect he was merely manipulated by CIA Officers such as David Phillips after he returned to the US. Just out of curiosity, do you believe Veciana's story about Oswald meeting with Phillips in Dallas?

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 19 Jun 2013, 7:23 am

I should add that I think Veciana was a credible witness.

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by Faroe Islander on Thu 20 Jun 2013, 11:08 am

Hi
I was attending a conferemce on Autism two months ago, there was a Psyciater that told her life story, she had started in the RAF being there for ten years, and doing very well because of all the rules,
She got 2 or 3 kids and then she was headhunted to the Infantri, because she was able to think outside the box, she felt even better there because there were even more rules about everything, Oswald was in the marines where he was told when to eat when to sh.. and when to do everything.
I do not know what to think of the Asperger theory,  I think he could manage in the Sovjet union as a spy, with Aspergers as the Real time empati and real time thinking could be disguised in translation and maybe also the patriarchal society back then would help him, if he was a Asperger.

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Thu 20 Jun 2013, 9:25 pm

Faroe Islander wrote:Hi
I was attending a conferemce on Autism two months ago, there was a Psyciater that told her life story, she had started in the RAF being there for ten years, and doing very well because of all the rules,
She got 2 or 3 kids and then she was headhunted to the Infantri, because she was able to think outside the box, she felt even better there because there were even more rules about everything, Oswald was in the marines where he was told when to eat when to sh.. and when to do everything.
I do not know what to think of the Asperger theory,  I think he could manage in the Sovjet union as a spy, with Aspergers as the Real time empati and real time thinking could be disguised in translation and maybe also the patriarchal society back then would help him, if he was a Asperger.
Thanks for sharing that.


She sounds like the paediatrician that used to look after my boys. He said to us once that he thought he was "on the spectrum" because all he was interested in was the "raw numbers" - in other words he was far better at assessing charts, test results and instrument readings that could be quantified than in assessing from say interviewing. 

Not sure how serious he meant his comment to be, though... 

In looking at Oswald, you have to take into account that it was a condition that was not recognised in the US - so if he had it - no one realised it - it was simply put down to him being a "queer duck" as someone put it... "a bit odd..." "nuts"... or else in the kind of medical terminology used at Youth House.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 7:59 am

Marina explains to the Warren Commission Oswald's obsession with butter:


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?mode=searchResult&absPageId=15044


Note how she says that Oswald would become very angry if dinner was even five minutes late, and that Oswald wouldn't actually touch the butter if it was at the dinner table. Alexander Kleinlerer confirmed (in so many words) that Oswald had an obsession with butter:


7. There was another occasion when I was at the Mercedes Street apartment. George Bouhe had called me and asked me to meet him there. This had nothing to do with the Oswalds. George Bouhe and I are good friends and he was calling to say that he was going to be in Fort Worth at the Oswalds and asked me to drop by so we could have a friendly visit. On this occasion I saw the Oswalds briefly. I recall that Anna Meller came with George Bouhe and there was an older lady whose name I do not now recall. I remember that Oswald and Marina were seated at the dining table eating. We were sitting there talking with Mr. George Bouhe when suddenly Oswald noticed there was no butter on the table. He rose red faced and angry and in our presence rudely and in a domineering and overbearing manner, and as though Marina was a mere chattel, proceeded to vigourously reprimand her. It was like a sergeant bullying a new recruit. We were all embarrassed and shocked.


http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/kleinler.htm


Dr. Tony Attwood writes about some of the odd special interests which Aspies can develop on page 175 of his online book and onwards:


[url=http://www.peaknt.com/files/The Complete Guide to Aspergers Syndrome_Attwood.pdf]http://www.peaknt.com/files/The%20Complete%20Guide%20to%20Aspergers%20Syndrome_Attwood.pdf[/url]


Note how he writes: "The attachment to objects can be remarkably intense with considerable distress if one is missing..."

I think that what I have highlighted above are more indications that Oswald had Asperger's syndrome. What do you make of it, Greg?

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by greg parker on Tue 08 Jul 2014, 8:23 am

Good pick-up. It could be a sign of other conditions, as well... or just a simple peccadillo. The same could be said of other aspects of the person, but when you put them down side by side, it takes on a whole different appearance. 

I am certain if he were alive today, he would be diagnosed with Asperger's (or at least the more general diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder - ASD). What I will add that in taking any test for the disorder, I believe his score would make him very high functioning - or to put that another way - his score would only just tip him over into the ASD/Asperger's range. But most definitely "in" he would be.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 8:03 am

greg parker wrote:Good pick-up. It could be a sign of other conditions, as well... or just a simple peccadillo. The same could be said of other aspects of the person, but when you put them down side by side, it takes on a whole different appearance. 

I am certain if he were alive today, he would be diagnosed with Asperger's (or at least the more general diagnosis of Autism Spectrum Disorder - ASD). What I will add that in taking any test for the disorder, I believe his score would make him very high functioning - or to put that another way - his score would only just tip him over into the ASD/Asperger's range. But most definitely "in" he would be.




Thanks for the feedback, mate. Although I have mentioned this elsewhere, I thought that it is also worth mentioning here that on page 339 of his book, Attwood writes that:






“Experience has indicated that people with Asperger’s who have committed a [criminal] offence have often been quick to confess and justify their actions.”




According to Attwood, this is because “They cannot understand what all the fuss is about; their actions were logical, justified and appropriate and described without any associated emotions or remorse.”




On page 335 of his book, he writes that:






[size=13]“The overwhelming majority of people with Asperger’s syndrome are law-abiding citizens, often with very clear and conventional opinions as to what is morally and legally right and wrong.”[/size]




If Oswald had Asperger's, then the implication of the above is quite obvious (at least to me anyway).

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Re: Why Oswald was More Likely to Have Suffered Asperger’s Than Dyslexia

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