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Sep 17, 1963

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Sep 17, 1963

Post by greg parker on Sun 28 Mar 2010, 10:36 pm

Mexican Tourist Card, FM-8 number 24085 issued by Mexican Consulate General, New Orleans in name of LEE, HARVEY OSWALD [sic], photographer, age 23. Card sent to FBI lab, and on Dec 6, the lab concluded that two signatures on the card were made by Oswald, and that no latent fingerprint impressions "of value" were developed on the card.[1] Informant T-2 tells FBI that other info furnished with application included place of employment as 640 Rampart St, married, that he was taking $300 with him as an "in transit tourist" and that a birth certificate was used as proof of residency.[2] The balance of information supplied on the FM-8 was, religion - Catholic, duration of trip - 10 days, address - 4907 Magazine, means of transportation - bus.[3]

Other info for this day:
Oswald at Employment Office, 630 Camp St.
• FBI unable to locate anyone (employee or customer) who recalled seeing Oswald in Mexican Consulate.
• Tourist Card 24082 issued to Samuel Thomas North.
• Tourist Card 24083 issued to Judyth Marie Muth North.
• Tourist Card 24084 issued to William Gaudet. (this was missing from list supplied by Mex authorities)
• Tourist Card 24086 issued to Florence Parson de Men.
• Tourist Card 24087 issued to George Henry De Men.
• George and Florence de Men traveled by car to Mexico with neighbors Lenus Melvin Pluche and Marie Grace Pluche crossing at Cuidad Miguel Aleman - 100 miles south of Laredo.
• Torbitt Document claims the De Men's, the Norths and someone travelling under name of Anthony W Oswald were all Russian Solidarists and crossed the border together. The tourist card "Torbitt" ascribes to "Anthony W Oswald" actually belonged to Gaudet. Does not mention the Pluches. Mary Ferrell suggests De Mens may be De Morhenschildts in disguise.
• Above claims appear to be unfounded. George de Men listed by daughter, Cindy Kaupp, as missing following Hurrican Katrina. She lists his DOB as 10.13.1920 and place of residence, Chalmette, Louisiana.
• Marina stated on 3 separate occasions that she knew nothing of Oswald's plans to go to Mexico, but changed her story for her WC appearance, saying she first learned of his plans to go to Mexico and Cuba in August.
• Gaudet self-described CIA agent. Publisher of "Latin American Report" from ITM offices. Connection to Citizen's Committee for Free Cuba. Stated he picked up Mex tourist card early afternoon. Did not see LHO. 1963 telephone directory has him listed as at 640 Audubon (recall LHO listed 640 Rampart as place of employment).


[1]CE 2121 pp 3-5. See also latest opinions on fingerprints in this case eg Lee, Starrs and Baden all now agree that there is value to rifle trigger guard print, despite original reports indicating no latent prints "of value" were found.

[2]CE 1142. T-2 further explained that an "in transit tourist" is someone who will be travelling to other countries after departing. FBI did only cursory investigation on the address of employment supplied by checking a local street directory. This showed (it was claimed) that 640 Rampart did not exist, nor was there a 640 N Rampart. 640 S Rampart had the offices for the Louisiana Weekly Publishing Co Inc (a Black newspaper), HL Wilcox Real Estate, and a Dr Thelma Boutee. A search of New Orleans Public Library online however, shows her correct name as "Thelma Boutte (nee Coffey) - elsewhere shown as "Thelma Coffey Boutte". She is described as "the first Black female doctor in New Orleans, starting in 1937". There are a couple of African-American doctors from Louisana now with the surname Boutte who may be the grandchildren of, or otherwise related to, Thelma, including a Dr Kenneth Boutte, an associate Professor of Biology with main interest being immunoparasitology. Past ties to Tulane, Dillard and to Student Abroad and Student Exchange programs. Did Thelma Boutte have an interest in immunology? Book-keeper for black newspaper was interviewed. Told FBI, Oswald not employed there during September, and did not recognise Oswald photo (CE 1907). Neither Doctor Boutte, nor the real estate agent were interviewed. Fred Powledge meanwhile reported in the NYT that there was a boarding house at 640 N Rampart, and that none of the residents recalled Oswald. Was this information leaked by FBI to Powledge, only to be scrubbed from the records soon after?

[3]CE 2481.

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Re: Sep 17, 1963

Post by greg parker on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 1:26 pm

bump

_________________
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I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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              Me

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Re: Sep 17, 1963

Post by Stan Dane on Sun 17 Aug 2014, 2:54 pm

From Walt Brown's Master Chronology of JFK Assassination

September 17, 1963— time unstated, CST; Lee Oswald appeared at the Mexican Consulate to secure a visa for a tourist visit to Mexico City. According to the published documentation in the Warren volumes, "On November 23, 1963, T-1, a confidential source abroad, advised that the official records of the Mexican government reflected that one Lee, Harvey Oswald had entered Mexico on September 26, 1963, and Nuevo Laredo, Tamaulipas, and had departed Mexico at the same place on October 3, 1963."
 
"On November 24, 1963, source made available a copy of the Mexican form FM-8 (tourist card) used for the entry of this person into Mexico. The FM-8 is reproduced on the following page."
 
"The FM-8 bears No. 24085 and was issued on September 17, 1963, by the Mexican Consulate General in New Orleans, Louisiana. As noted above, it was issued in the name of Lee, Harvey Oswald. It would appear that the comma was placed on the card in error inasmuch as the signature appearing on the original and duplicate portions of the FM-8 is Lee H. Oswald.
 
Oswald listed his profession as "photographer," stated that he was 23 years of age and married, and presented a birth certificate as proof of his citizenship.
 
The FM- 8 was valid for a single journey to Mexico for a period of fifteen days." (CE 2121 —Continued, 24H 571)
 
The FBI report is notable for its total lack of any file reference number— essentially meaning that it was written with the intent of it going nowhere.
 
Points of emphasis: First and foremost, the FBI is treating the public like imbeciles to ask anyone to believe that they had an international informant, "T-1," (out of possibly thousands) who furnished this specific information. If there was, in fact, a T-1, it would suggest that person’s assignment was "Oswald’s shadow," and nothing else.
 
Secondly, the use of "Oswald’s" birth certificate is a serious anomaly, as no such document has ever been known to exist, and none was found following a thorough search of Oswald’s belongings— so thorough in fact, that it included inventoried items such as paper clip and rubber band—but no birth certificate.
 
The explanation of the typographical comma seems plausible, except that subsequent documentation is quite clear that the person who entered Mexico was No. 807, Harvey Oswald Lee, FM-8 No. 24085, issued by Mexican Consulate General, New Orleans, Louisiana, September 17, 1963. (CE 2121—Continued, 24H 581)
 
The record is also— perhaps intentionally so—deficient with respect to the reasons FOR Oswald’s visit. At the time he made application on September 17, he indicated he was a photographer, and his address as 640 Rampart Street. While it is not known to the editor or to the cited source as to what, if anything existed there in 1963, the Louisiana Weekly, a newspaper with black readership, was located at 640 South Rampart Street. (John F. “Jay” Harrison Genealogical Archives)
 
Footnote: Here is yet another example of "Oswald," the person who cannot maintain employment as a coffee-machine greaser, being politically knowledgeable enough to know that Cuba was making a huge and significant outreach to Third World nations, and one such outreach involved invitations to African journalists who could view the Cuban Revolution for themselves.
 
It is no coincidence that Oswald inserted himself into this "niche" and took this pose, although there is no known evidence that he represented himself as a photographer for a black newspaper once the 15-day Mexico visit card was issued.
 
It is unlikely that Oswald stumbled onto these “causes” by himself— the Clinton— Jackson voter event; the "Hands Off Cuba" posture; this specific pose.
 
He was being set up by forces far greater than he.
 
And he was plucked like a Thanksgiving turkey, one week before Thanksgiving, on November 22, 1963.
 
Finally, it has to be noted that the tourist visa issued immediately prior to Oswald’s went to William Gaudet, a CIA operative who maintained an office in the International Trade Mart, and "observed" the leaflet fracas on August 9, 1963 (see entry).
 
It is extremely curious that his tourist card immediately preceded Oswald’s, as anyone searching the day’s roster would look for entries after Oswald to see who else went along. But no matter—when the FBI turned over the appropriate (if that is the right term) documentation to the Warren Commission, they stated, "No record of FM-8 No. 24084 located," which, as John Armstrong noted, "was an outright lie." (John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald, pp. 595-596) Armstrong also added that when FBI records were declassified in 1975, the name of William George Gaudet, known to Banister, Ferrie, et al, was clearly listed alongside FM-8 No. 24084, making the FBI’s statement an egregious lie, not a simple mistake, both of which the FBI/ CIA is prone to.
 
Gaudet, according to Armstrong, told the HSCA that the event was pure coincidence, yet told the House Select Committee that he knew of connections between Oswald and the New Orleans "suspects": "Yes, I observed Banister talking to LHO in front of the International Trade Mart… I saw him (Banister) in deep conversation with Lee Harvey Oswald on Camp Street right by the post office. They were leaning over and talking and it was an earnest conversation…. It seemed to me Banister wanted Oswald to do something… I suppose you are looking into Ferrie. He was with Oswald…. Another person is Sergio Arcacha Smith. I know he knew Oswald and knows more about the Kennedy affair than he ever admitted (1) [or the Warren Commission ever asked…]." (John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald, p. 596)
 
The other obvious anomaly is that Armstrong reports the possibility that Lee Oswald was in New York City with Ruth Paine from September 16 to 23, and therefore could not have been in the Mexican Consulate on September 17.
 
The Ruth Paine/ New York story relies on the hearsay evidence of a self-styled undercover agent who cited Michael and Ruth Paine as equal undercover agents and Oswald’s "baby sitter."
 
As for the time duration, we do not know where, exactly, Ruth Paine was, as she had left Naushon Island in August, and did not make an obvious appearance until the end of this cited time frame, when she arrived in New Orleans to take Marina back to Irving, Texas, in order for her to have inexpensive medical care for the birth of her second child. (John Armstrong, Harvey and Lee: How the CIA Framed Oswald, p. 597)
 
Note: This possibility is also either challenged or strengthened, depending on one’s belief as to the "Two Oswalds" by the September 19, 1963 "library" entry. "Lee Oswald" could not have taken books out of the New Orleans Public Library on that date if he was in New York City.
 
Beyond that, the entire event is a misunderstanding, date-wise, because Lee Oswald— whoever he was—did not leave for Mexico until September 25, and all related events are in relation to September 27, not September 17.

(1) Despite his obvious proximity to every anti-Cuban matter occurring in 1963, Sergio Arcacha Smith, like David Ferrie, Clay Shaw , and Guy Banister—was NOT called by the Warren Commission.

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Re: Sep 17, 1963

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