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Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

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Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 1:14 pm

I respect the sincerity and the commitment of author Bill Simpich to uncovering the truth. I call it as I see it as accurately as I am able to. In this case I think Bill Simpich should be presenting more photo evidence of Oswald's fellow defector to the Soviet Union in that era, US Navy Veteran Robert E. Webster in support of his conclusion.


http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/State_Secret_Chapter1
State Secret
Wiretapping in Mexico City, Double Agents, and the Framing of Lee Oswald
by Bill Simpich
Chapter 1: The Double Dangle

How the double dangle was created
Now that we’ve discussed how to set up a molehunt, let’s discuss how a double dangle was created. As seen below, Oswald and Webster looked almost exactly the same.

Lee Oswald and Robert Webster
These photos are particularly eerie. I believe that the similar appearance of Oswald and Webster was designed to entice Soviets to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two men, or to express their confusion regarding these two men......

http://www.ebay.com/itm/111165667773


http://www.classmates.com/yearbooks/Zelienople-High-School/157749?page=24



http://www.ebay.com/itm/350876723705

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 3:04 pm

In one of those photo's Webster bears an uncanny resemblance to Bing Crosby.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by greg parker on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 3:42 pm

Tom,

it is a stone cold fact that myriad people in myriad places mistook Larry Crafard for Oswald.

To me anyway, Webster looks more like Oswald than Crafard does. 

And you are aware that Ruby thought Oswald looked like Paul Newman?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 3:53 pm

I guess I tend to wear my prejudice against still and moving image evidence and interpretation of it on my sleeve, sorry!




http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/Photos_-_HSCA_Mugbook_-_p2



Since this man won the best actor Oscar award a few years ago, at least 75 people upon first meeting me have asked if anyone has ever told me that I look just like the actor. I do not see the resemblance but he is nearly 15 years younger and much more talented than I. I have tried to post both of us much closer in age, (my photo was taken in 1996) but the comparison began more recently and several times in recent months.


http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000450/?ref_=fn_nm_nm_2



Last edited by Tom Scully on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by greg parker on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 4:56 pm

I agree - if we're talking about two pixels in a bush and pretending we see a police cap... which is nothing more than a Rorschach test for crazies and promulgated by those wishing to exploit the heightened gullibility of such people for their own ends. 
 
But who looked like Oswald and to what degree that did, is a different kettle of fish. What I think doesn't really matter. A lot of people mistook Crafard for Oswald and that is historical fact. I therefore think it is at least possible that Oswald and Webster got mistaken for each other at some time or other. 

And Prayer Man is in a different category again. You cannot rule it in or out as being Oswald based on the image alone. But it has pretty much been narrowed down to Oswald based on a raft of other material and evidence.


Last edited by greg parker on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 5:06 pm

I agree with everything you just posted, but Bill Simpich is taking it much further than the images I have found and posted of Webster would permit me to push it. Again my point is that the image he provided in the chapter and the one on the linked page do not, IMO, support what he presents and the images I found and posted would not promote this results. Again, just in my opinion.


http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/State_Secret_Chapter1
........
I believe that the similar appearance of Oswald and Webster was designed to entice Soviets to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two men, or to express their confusion regarding these two men. These conversations could then be picked up by American wiretaps and bugs planted in strategic places such as Soviet government buildings. Covert operations of this type were run by the CIA’s Staff D.
......

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by greg parker on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 5:48 pm

Tom Scully wrote:Since this man won the best actor Oscar award a few years ago, at least 75 people upon first meeting me have asked if anyone has ever told me that I look just like the actor. I do not see the resemblance but he is nearly 15 years younger and much more talented than I. I have tried to post both of us much closer in age, (my photo was taken in 2001) but the comparison began more recently and several times in recent months.
I suspect, Tom, that you don't see the resemblance for the same reason that siblings - including twins - will often argue they look nothing like each other...

FWIW,

Two gay guys back in my school days once had an argument over who I looked like - one claimed I looked like Paul Newman - the other argued I looked like Marlon Brando.

I didn't think I looked like either -- but hey, in retrospect... maybe I did look like Newman - because when I first posted my pic as an avatar to a JFK forum... I got told by multiple people I looked like Oswald (and since Ruby thought Oswald looked like Newman...)Wink 

And one of my uncles got married on the basis that the woman he married thought he was a dead ringer for Elvis...

These days, I just look like Buddha...  or maybe Colonel Kurtz...

 

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Posts : 3440
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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Mark A. O'Blazney on Tue 08 Oct 2013, 7:52 pm

Kurtz looks like Uncle Fester (Coogan?) in the lab after one of Gomez' (Astin's) failed experiments! 
 But that was a great piece you wrote, Mr. Simpich.  Good to compare with others who have written on these matters.  Thank you very much.  And you look nothing like Mr. Capote up there next to you, Tom.  We see what we see.  Clouds..... from both sides now.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by AllenLowe on Wed 09 Oct 2013, 7:36 am

skinny guys all look alike to me; and remember, back in those days, almost everybody was thin. And an African American guy I worked for told me he thought all white people looked alike.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Fri 11 Oct 2013, 5:34 am

IMO, it is of little help to Bill Simpich to post of his abilities and reliability until he is persuaded to clear up this weakness of evidence in the prominent first chapter of his new book. Strongly support "an uncanny resemblance of these two men," with better photo images or reword the claims of resemblance. This issue has already become an unnecessary distraction.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11517&p=279279
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=11517&p=279332

https://deeppoliticsforum.com/forums/showthread.php?12306-State-Secret-Wiretapping-in-Mexico-City-Double-Agents-and-the-Framing-of-LHO&p=77684#post77684
Alan Dale Posted on 9 October, 2013

You're welcome, Bernice.

Bill is a meticulous and cautious investigator and analyst. I feel that his work is some of the most valuable that we will see during this anniversary year.
Maybe I am taking many of these seemingly over enthusiastic statements too literally. Does anyone actually accept that Soviet intelligence management took notice of the uncanny resemblance of Webster to Oswald? The problem for me is that Bill SImpich did not direct anyone to images of Webster that are extraordinary enough to support his extraordinary claim of obvious resemblance. IMO, he has not made the case in this instance. He did not make a cautious statement about the resemblance of the two American defectors, considering the vague images he directs his readers to in support of his very confident descriptions of resemblance. IMO, he should be able to post images of Webster such as these, given his confident conclusions.::

In chrionological order.:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gDWlRokzSyM/UlNTTVEdxHI/AAAAAAAABYQ/eZtthe8B6qw/s484/RobertEdwardWebsterZelienoplePA1946HS.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/--t45Lffgt2A/UlNeRu4aM9I/AAAAAAAABZI/CBRekLbBlYI/s499/RobertEdwardWebsterHat1962.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-BMgQDxxQWVc/UlN2u-f09nI/AAAAAAAABZY/JUBnj5KZd8g/s800/RobertEdwardWebsterReturnsFromSoviet.jpg

http://www.maryferrell.org/wiki/index.php/State_Secret_Chapter1
State Secret
Wiretapping in Mexico City, Double Agents, and the Framing of Lee Oswald
by Bill Simpich
Chapter 1: The Double Dangle

How the double dangle was created
Now that we’ve discussed how to set up a molehunt, let’s discuss how a double dangle was created. As seen below, Oswald and Webster looked almost exactly the same.
.....These photos are particularly eerie. I believe that the similar appearance of Oswald and Webster was designed to entice Soviets to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two men, or to express their confusion regarding these two men......
The two photos of Webster that Bill Simpich presented to readers are not of a quality to be reasonably described as "particularly eerie," and the better photos I have posted support no "uncanny resemblance between these two men,", so where are we on this point, or on Alan's description of Bill's cautiousness?

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by James DiEugenio on Fri 11 Oct 2013, 10:33 am

I agree with you Tom. 

Bill did not make his case there.

I don't know why he tried either.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Mark A. O'Blazney on Fri 11 Oct 2013, 7:10 pm

It is good to compare with others who have written on these matters.  A noble attempt, Mr. Simpich.  Looking forward to your refutations!

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Frankie Vegas on Sat 12 Oct 2013, 12:00 pm

This might be way out of the ball park, but sometimes people remind me of other people and they look nothing alike, but they have similar mannerisms, accents,  characteristics or even an aura or charisma. It could be in the way they light a cigarette, walk or describe things.
If these men looked vaguely similar to someone who didn't know them well and had similar attributes then it might be easier to pull off.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Stan Dane on Sat 12 Oct 2013, 12:56 pm

Frankie Vegas wrote:This might be way out of the ball park, but sometimes people remind me of other people and they look nothing alike, but they have similar mannerisms, accents,  characteristics or even an aura or charisma. It could be in the way they light a cigarette, walk or describe things.
If these men looked vaguely similar to someone who didn't know them well and had similar attributes then it might be easier to pull off.
I think you're in the ballpark and sitting behind home plate.
 
I love impressionist Frank Caliendo. He doesn't look like George W Bush, Bill Clinton, former black NBA superstar Charles Barkley, comedian Robin Williams or actor William Shatner, but he imitates the voices, mannerisms and aura of these men and others so convincingly that people pay to see him perform.
 
It goes far beyond just looks.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Sat 12 Oct 2013, 1:26 pm

Stan, are you replying mainly to Frankie's comments, or to the points of the opening post of the thread.

Bill Simpich:
....As seen below, Oswald and Webster looked almost exactly the same.
Stan Dane:
I think you're in the ballpark and sitting behind home plate.
I love impressionist Frank Caliendo. He doesn't look like .....
......it goes far beyond just looks. .....
I can relate to Frankie's remarks, although I do not think they apply because Bill Simpich is writing about two Americans inserted inside the Soviet Union at the height of U2 spy plane tensions with the U.S. in the midst of an unprecedented cold war between the two most massive overkill capable world powers in history. The "audience" the two Americans are positioned to perform in front of are supervisors of surveillance agents who obtain photographic intelligence and pass the images along with their trained observations to these supervisors.
The Americans and the Soviets are under life and death, politcal, and career pressure to get it right. A select and specialized audience of the Amercan presentation were the supervisors of Soviet internal and military intelligence had to be fooled to this degree.:
.....to entice Soviets to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two men, or to express their confusion regarding these two men......
Bill Simpich wrote these conclusions and goals. Stan, are you saying what Frankie posted solves the problem of a seemingly misleading photo presentation intended to support Bill Simpich's written contentions, or are you saying something else? Do you think a book about these matters needs to be well supported in its extraordinary conclusions with, or will feelings substitute sufficiently for weak supporting images?

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Stan Dane on Sat 12 Oct 2013, 1:36 pm

Tom Scully wrote:Stan, are you replying mainly to Frankie's comments, or to the points of the opening post of the thread.

Bill Simpich:
....As seen below, Oswald and Webster looked almost exactly the same.
Stan Dane:
I think you're in the ballpark and sitting behind home plate.
I love impressionist Frank Caliendo. He doesn't look like .....
......it goes far beyond just looks. .....
I can relate to Frankie's remarks, although I do not think they apply because Bill Simpich is writing about two Americans inserted inside w Soviet Union at the height of U2 spy plane tensions with the U.S. in the midst of an unprecedented cold war between the two most massive overkill capable world powers in history. The "audience" the two Americans are positioned to perform in are supervisors of surveillance agents who obtain photographic intelligence and pass the images along with their trained observations to these supervisors.
The Americans and the Soviets are under life and death, politcal, and career pressure to get it right. A select and specialized audience of the Amercan presentation were the supervisors of Soviet internal and military intelligence had to be fooled to this degree.:
.....to entice Soviets to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two men, or to express their confusion regarding these two men......
Bill Simpich wrote these conclusions and goals. Stan, are you only replying to what Frankie posted, or to a combination of what she posted and what the thread is about?
I was only replying to Frankie's point about "sometimes people remind me of other people and they look nothing alike…." Just a thought that came to me as I read it. Nothing more.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Sat 12 Oct 2013, 2:02 pm

Thanks, Stan.

I am trying to persuade contributors to this thread to read what Bill actually wrote and compare it to the two photos he supported what he wrote with. If you take into account that Soviets who would be "enticed to talk about the uncanny resemblance of these two me, or express confusion regrarding the two," also had access to recent, good quality photos of both of them taken for internal Soviet identififcation issued to both Americans, I wonder how long confusion would be expressed by anyone who mattered much to American eavesdrop counterintelligence?

That is even assuming the ruse fell just short of convincing the Soviets of an uncanny resemblance, triggering the right Soviets to express confusion.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Thu 10 Apr 2014, 2:11 am

Earlier today I made a discovery relevant to Bill Simpich's chapter on Robert Webster by backing into it. I had been researching Nixon's friend John M Shaheen, posthumously implicated in the 1980 October Surprise Op. Shaheen had also
been a close friend of William Casey. Shaheen's sister was the wife of TV journalist Hugh Downs.  I've found that in 1951 Shaheen married and spent his honeymoon at Marathon Key in Florida with Webster's sponsor H James Rand and Dan T Moore. Edwin A Link was also in this party of ship wreck treasure hunters. Moore was the brother of Luvie Moore Abell Pearson, wife of Drew Pearson. Rand was best man in Shaheen's May, 1951 wedding. In his book, Bill Simpich refers to a 1960 CIA document describing Dan T Moore's intention to go
to Moscow with James Rand to retrieve Rand's car and use it to smuggle Webster out of the Soviet Union.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Mark A. O'Blazney on Fri 11 Apr 2014, 12:08 am

What a Merry-Go-Round, indeed, Drew !  Thanks for the great new data, Tom…. agin'.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Guest on Fri 11 Apr 2014, 5:26 pm

Thank you, Mark, and its sad to see the passing of Peter. I might
have stayed unaware of it if you had not pointed it out. "They" have a tendency, a lot of them, to embrace nature after their cloak and dagger phases. E.U."Chip" Bohlen is but one other example. Now....where was I ?......

(Note: I've found that there is a tendency to confuse RAND Corp. ...named by simply merging R & D
with the completely unaffiliated Rand Development Corp., named after H. James Rand, who in his youth changed his name from Henry James Rand III. His father was involved in the Sperry-Rand Corp.)

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=5&ved=0CEIQFjAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Famericanradiohistory.com%2FArchive-BC%2FBC-1956%2F1956-03-12-BC.pdf&ei=jChHU4-RD-iZ0QHtoYGYAg&usg=AFQjCNEcalHis8sIO3qsOnUMr5kh69jO1Q&sig2=A8cp6GNn1gBlQ7t8I3N0eA
Page 5
Radio Stations 1955







Re: Kanmon Undersea Railway Tunnel & the Invasion of Japan
Post Number:#46  by Mil-tech Bard on 23 Mar 2013, 00:00
It turns out the Javaman TV camera was a US Navy one from R.C.A.’s chief scientist Dr. Vladimir Zworykin that was adapted for Operation Crossbow -- the attack on German V-weapons -- via the USAAF Weary Willie and US Navy Aphrodite heavy bomber conversions.

It was also used on the later TDN-1/TDR-1 TV guided missile.

See below:

http://www.mugualumni.org/secretarsenal/page9.html

Post Number:#47  by Mil-tech Bard on 23 Mar 2013, 00:05
There turns out to be a declassified report on "Project Campbell" on the US Army's CARL Digital Library site.

See the link for a PDF document on it --

http://cgsc.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/sing ... 041/rec/11

The data I downloaded for Campbell is a 100% match for Javaman.

The OSS-USAAF organizational link for Javaman came from the China-Burma-India theater, where Gen. H. H. "Hap" Arnold put a lot of his "Imperial focus" on supporting the UK Chindits and OSS field units with his "Air Commandos" and where one of Arnold's guided weapon projects, the VB-1 Azon bomb, was the most successful.

According to pages 337 & 338 of Joseph E. Persico's "Roosevelt's Secret War; FDR and World War II Espionage" Generals Arnold and Donavan (OSS director) sold Project Javaman to a dying FDR in a White house meeting in late March 1945. The order to reserve the Kanmon tunnel for Project Javaman went to General Kenney's Far Eastern Air Force in Early April 1945 during the deliberations around approving the invasion of Japan.

After that, Javaman sat like a huge lead weight on any local Pacific commander's initiative to strike the Kanmon tunnel prior to the week of July 18th thru 25th 1945, when the reality of 12,000 troops a day moving through the tunnel shattered that inertia.

Then it was a case of the 20th Air Force dropping the ball on sealing the Kanmon tunnel and being shown the door by Nimitz & MacArthur Olympic invasion plans in early August 1945. (more)....

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1314&dat=19710604&id=ZR1OAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2ewDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6080,1110710


http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1499&dat=19681229&id=Y8AdAAAAIBAJ&sjid=XygEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7384,2778544


(Entire article text available at link above article image.)


http://seattletimes.com/html/obituaries/2018564333_mccawobit30.html
Opera supporter Marion McCaw Garrison dies
By Paul de Barros
Seattle Times staff reporter
June 29, 2012
.....
The family moved to Seattle in 1953. In 1969, John McCaw died suddenly. Facing lawsuits claiming all but $20,000 of his $12 million estate, Mrs. Garrison spent years resolving the company's finances, enlisting the help of attorney William H. Gates Sr.
She saved the business, and her sons took the helm, creating McCaw Cablevision & Cellular Communications. She remained as chairman emeritus.
In 1994, the family sold the company to AT&T for $11.5 billion......



OSS: The Secret History of America's First Central ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=1599216582
Richard Harris Smith - 2005 - ‎History
Wisner's Bucharest team included George Bookbinder, now president of the Rand Development Corporation, and Columbia political scientist Henry Roberts.....

https://www.google.com/#q=cia.gov+wisner+bookbinder+




  1. [PDF]
    [url=http://www.foia.cia.gov/sites/default/files/document_conversions/1705143/BISHOP, ROBERT_0064.pdf]Download PDF for 51966ece993294098d50b3c6 - CIA FOIA[/url]
    www.foia.cia.gov/.../BISHOP,%20RO...‎
    Central Intelligence Agency (CIA)
    End Lt. F.k.. Frank G. Wisner. Robert Bishop. William L. Cary. Wallace Fair. Louis L. Madison. Richard F. Won. George H. Bookbinder ... Finance 0 and Russian. ....




Bookbinder NY Times 15 Nov 1959




https://www.google.com/search?q=elroy%20mcgaw%20site:news.google.com/newspapers&source=newspapers#q=%22around+to+O%27Brien%2C%22+Chotiner+said%2C+%22don%27t+worry+about+that.%22+rand&tbm=bks
The President's private eye: the journey of Detective Tony ... - Page 184
books.google.com/books?id=ToRLAAAAYAAJ
Tony Ulasewicz, ‎Stuart A. McKeever - 1990 - ‎Snippet view
if my existence as Nixon's private eye wasn't going to receive any support from the White House if my identity was disclosed.
But as Caulfield explained, Chotiner had files on people which
I had to take a look at so I'd know the type of information the President was looking for when I got the call to go to work.
When I met with Chotiner, the first thing he did was to hand me a file he had been keeping on the Rand Development Corporation and its officers. He made it clear that he kept exhaustive records on everyone who played the political power game. He told me that if, instead of Nixon, I had gone to work for the Democrats, I'd probably be meeting with Larry O'Brien instead of him. "We'll get around to O'Brien," Chotiner said, "don't worry about that." Chotiner said that O'Brien, Chairman of the Democratic National Committee in 1968, still had some dues to pay from the 1960 election that Nixon had lost to Jack Kennedy......

http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=16720&relPageId=2


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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

Post by Mark A. O'Blazney on Fri 11 Apr 2014, 8:24 pm

Churning the waters again with that wieldly oar of yours, Tom!(?)  Make sure 'they' don't think it's the wrong Peter, though.  Thanks for more genuine pieces in this puzzle.

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Re: Bill Simpich: "Oswald and (Robert Edward) Webster looked almost exactly the same."

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