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Fetzer On Dieugenio

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 6:12 am

Albert Rossi wrote:Precisely my thoughts.

Well Jim, what do you say?

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by James DiEugenio on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 6:27 am

After having worked laboriously on two books in the last  years, I am not all the eager to launch on another.  Especially since the last one just came out three months ago.

But other people have also asked me to do such a thing.

It all depends on some other things going on right now.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 30 Dec 2013, 7:48 pm

If he keeps pressing, Cliff Varnell may soon become another non-person over at ED:
 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20918

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 1:05 am

No rush, Jim. However, I think we really need such a book from somebody like you. If you could have it written by the 51st anniversary, it will be a hat trick for you. Now that would be quite a record.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by James DiEugenio on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 5:03 am

Stan Dane wrote:If he keeps pressing, Cliff Varnell may soon become another non-person over at ED:
 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20918


That is really something isn't it?

Jon Simkin rules the roost with an iron fist.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Guest on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 8:27 am

Frankie, I am interested in obtaining that zip file of the EF archives if you're able to e-mail that to me. I have hopes this winter of researching it for a definitive re-write of "The Elevator Escape Theory".  Many thanks in advance.    cat

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Guest on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 10:08 am

James DiEugenio wrote:
Stan Dane wrote:If he keeps pressing, Cliff Varnell may soon become another non-person over at ED:
 
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20918


That is really something isn't it?

Jon Simkin rules the roost with an iron fist.

I tried to contact Cliff today to explain what had happened to the thread he is complaining about.  It has disappeared because Dave Reitzes started it and any threads he started will completely disappear when the admin team deleted his content.  This is the same as what occurred with Jim and Martin - the only content still there from Reitzes are posts contained in other members posts who have quoted him.  The software cannot remove these.

Unfortunately Cliff cannot accept PM's so my explanation didn't go through.

It's amazing isn't it - that a culture of "if we don't mention it then it isn't happening" seems to have taken over the moderating team over there.  Maybe at some point of fumbling around enough they may find a pair of testicles between them to speak up about this - although I fear to gain the necessary gonads they may have to take the pair that are currently hanging down from the centre of Pat Speer's head.  Transparency has been removed from the John Simkin dictionary and been replaced with the words 'sneaky weasel' 

Ironically enough I was today looking around the Internet for some information on Loran Hall.  I regrettable got a hit of Gerry Patrick Hemming's first post he made on the Education Forum.  It didn't take the serial liar, lunatic, and bigot very long to start talking out of his bum pipe and raining all kinds of homophobic and racist comments down onto the forum readership.

Interestingly, Simkin lapped it all up but one member spoke out against the man who would have served society better by being locked in a padded cell.  Al Carrier said:

"My question to John is, why do you put up with this dribble from this low-life wanna-be who has never produced anything of value in his entire life? He speaks of operations of similar wanna-be's who have succeeded in nothing more than he ever had. He makes indirect connections with those who are no longer around to challenge and then goes into poisenous attacks on minority groups and persecutes others of religous backgrounds. 

GPH, go burn a cross in your own back yard and leave the intellectuals to decide on issues of fact. 

I dealt with dereclicts of his type and the safe passage was to stay away from them as they were clinger-oners. He is nothing more than a pecker gnat to the truth of our history. We are doing nothing more than allowing him to feed on those who cannot comprehend that he is a worthless deposit of information. And now he is dissing you in such a bold manner. Why do you put up with this dork?"


Simkin's response was his usual bullshit self-proclaimed values:

"The main reason is because I believe in freedom of speech. It is true that Gerry gets a bit aggressive at times, but I can take that. 

I also think that Gerry has some knowledge about the events surrounding the assassination. He is unlikely to tell us the full story. However, he does give out interesting information sometimes, especially when he is angry."


Simkin also seemed to accept, and take, Gerry's insistence on calling people who didn't share his worldview "queers."  Free speech is free speech after all and it appears you can be as angry as you want, just as long as you've got some information that Simkin finds interesting.  Spartacus doesn't pay for itself after all.

The last eight years haven't been too kind to old Simkin - his self-proclaimed values have now been shown to be a complete falsehood and I'm sure when the image you have spent years manipulating people into believing suddenly blows up in your face - you leave people staring back at the real you.  A vindictive and sad little man who takes pleasure in erasing not just your name but all of your work from his website.

The fact that 90% of Jim DiEugenio's contributions were flushed down the toilet through sheer vindictiveness is an absolute travesty.


Last edited by Lee Farley on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 2:29 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by James DiEugenio on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 11:07 am

Of all people, Jerry Patrick Hemming, that good friend of disinformation artist Gordon Winslow.

The guy who once said Eladio Del Valle was killed in a drug deal.

And the deal just happened to go down, within a stone's throw of Bernardo De Torres' apartment.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Albert Rossi on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 11:15 am

James DiEugenio wrote:
The guy who once said Eladio Del Valle was killed in a drug deal.

And the deal just happened to go down, within a stone's throw of Bernardo De Torres' apartment.

At the same time David Ferrie leaves two typed unsigned suicide notes and dies of natural causes.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by James DiEugenio on Tue 31 Dec 2013, 11:47 am

Right.. just  a coincidence of course.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 6:57 pm

Lifton started complaining to him that he needed it for research purposes. That is why he reopened it.
Lifton needed it for research purposes? Crap. He needed it to continue "acquiring" the research of others and pretending it's his. 

John Simpkin's friendship with this utter prick is what really shocked me. That and his wilful blindness concerning Lifton and the twin lap dogs, Speer and Jeffries.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
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Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Martin Hay on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 7:24 pm

Oddly, I just discovered that even though all my posts have been deleted, my EF membership actually still exists.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by James DiEugenio on Fri 03 Jan 2014, 5:36 am

The thing is, I really don't know why Simkin keeps it open now.

Because of Lifton?

Besides the Prayer Man thread, what  is there of any value there?

Its pretty much all ephemera.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Fri 03 Jan 2014, 8:15 pm

Looks like Varnell and John Dolva are making sure to placate the Master before he gets his axe out again.
Cliff Varnell wrote:"There is a peculiar strain of thinking which mistakes the right to free speech for a license to abuse one's host with inflammatory language.

"This is John Simkin's joint.  A man of the Left, our John...."

Bwaaaahahahahahahaha       (there's no Emoticon for a mouth agape and eyes blinking, stunned)

"Of the Left" in the sense that an old Soviet Commissar for Political Education is "of the Left"??

Hostage taker. Killer of hostages taken. Every single post and thread there is and will remain hostage to the arbitrary whims of a sad fellow who continues to constantly show that sycophancy is the highest value in his moral universe.

But then you'd have to excuse Varnell, since he's American and consequently hasn't the slightest fucking idea what "the Left" could possibly mean.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by JFK Student on Thu 09 Jan 2014, 8:48 pm

Wow.Fetzer claims that both Bush Senior and Dubya were in Dealey Plaza that day.


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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by JFK Student on Thu 09 Jan 2014, 8:50 pm

Could Fetzer be a disinfo guy working for the other side?

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Fri 10 Jan 2014, 1:09 am

JFK Student wrote:Could Fetzer be a disinfo guy working for the other side?


That's possible, but I just think he's a twit with a big ego and a very vivid imagination.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Albert Rossi on Fri 10 Jan 2014, 1:42 am

I would doubt he is working for the other side.  Someone like that would not, for instance, have taken on the JAMA in defense of Crenshaw the way he did back in the 1990s.  It just seems his powers of discrimination have declined over the years to such an extent that he is no longer able to distinguish fruit from nuts. Blinded by a big ego, no doubt.  But then there are many 9000 lb. gorillas in this business.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Guest on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 6:25 pm

dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:Looks like Cliff Varnell and John Dolva are making sure to placate the Master before he gets his axe out again.
Cliff Varnell wrote:"There is a peculiar strain of thinking which mistakes the right to free speech for a license to abuse one's host with inflammatory language.

"This is John Simkin's joint.  A man of the Left, our John...."

Bwaaaahahahahahahaha       (there's no Emoticon for a mouth agape and eyes blinking, stunned)

Nice removal of context.  I was referring to Dave Reitzes comparing John Simkin's policy of removing the posts and threads to the Winston Smith Experience, which I find a shrill over-reaction.

99% of everything written on-line about the JFK assassination could be shit-canned and the world wouldn't be worse off for it.

If the Ed Forum goes down tomorrow, oh well...I kick it at Deep Politics nowadays, anyway.




"Of the Left" in the sense that an old Soviet Commissar for Political Education is "of the Left"??

Sure.  There are authoritarian/totalitarian types of all ideological stripes.

I can't put a guy who runs a forum on the internet in the same league as those at the levers of real power.



Hostage taker. Killer of hostages taken. Every single post and thread there is and will remain hostage to the arbitrary whims of a sad fellow who continues to constantly show that sycophancy is the highest value in his moral universe.


Killer?  Wow.  I'm not as impressed with the significance of these posts and threads or with the outrage over Simkin's villainy.

Hyper-dramatic over-reaction, seems to me...


But then you'd have to excuse Varnell, since he's American and consequently hasn't the slightest fucking idea what "the Left" could possibly mean.

You have no idea of the ideological battles that raged in the American hardcore punk rock scene in the 80's.


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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by greg parker on Mon 03 Mar 2014, 7:29 pm

Cliff, it's always over-the-top... until it happens to you. I think the main point being made was in the work that was put up that is now gone. 

There is no comparison here to the "ideological battles that raged in the American hardcore punk rock scene in the '80s." The type and quality of democracy we live in didn't ride on the "ideological battles in the hardcore punk rock scene of the '80s." And I'm pretty sure there's an oxymoron embedded in that phrase somewhere.

The JFK assassination was a game-changer.  It matters, and because it matters, things can and do get heated.

But while you're here, you're welcome to fill us in on those halcyon days of hardcore punk in the "odds and sods" forum.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 3:43 am

I agree with Hassan, Fetzer is ego driven. His claims grow more ludicrous in my opinion the less relevant he becomes. His use of insults is troubling to me, he might concentrate more on verified sources. His personal attacks and research seem crafted of the same material, rampant speculation.

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Guest on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 6:30 am

Andrea Skolnik wrote:Over the last 5 years I have learned to ignore Fetzer though I was not vocal about my opinions beyond the occasional stray post in a Facebook forum if his name was brought up .
I did not in any way start a grass roots movement to discredit him or gather the horde of sycophants that I am constantly accused of having and insist that they all remove him from their Facebook walls.
In fact he is still on my personal wall so that I can stay informed as to his more ridiculous posts in the event that accurate information is required to be posted in response.
When I removed 600 from my Facebook I left authors so that they could be contacted once the JFK Annie library was built and if I owned their books and posted links to their work  I wanted to give them the opportunity for feedback with readers.
Over the years I have always felt that the furious fight to prove that the Z film was faked and the insistence that this and this alone proves a cover up was not only absurd but also a smokescreen and a ploy to diminish the film as evidence.
After the Stone film resulted in so much attention on the records and led to the ARRB , Stone had a spotlight on him.
One of the main points he repeated in every interview was the value of the Z Film as EVIDENCE.
It was not until THEN did I start to see the vicious struggle within discussion forums to diminish the film as evidence by questioning its authenticity.
It was in these forums as the Fetzer brigade grew that you could see a pattern and trace it back to its roots.
Those that disagreed with Fetzer were attacked violently in forums , pushed out and silenced if they could not first be discredited.
The other side of the Fetzer coin plays in to the psyche memo to paint critics as illogical, gullible , believing any stray theory no matter how absurd , financially motivated , disagreeable and argumentative for no reason . 
I have questioned for the past few years why Black Op Radio still advertised for his books.
Now we have come full circle with Fetzer biting one of the hands that has fed him.
If as he claims he truly believes that Black Op is handled why has he allowed his book to be sold and advertised there all these years?

All right, please bear with me here (I'm a noob).

What is Black Op?

What is JFK Annie?

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by greg parker on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 7:00 am

All right, please bear with me here (I'm a noob).

What is Black Op?

Block Op Radio 
http://blackopradio.com/

What is JFK Annie?

An online name used on FB by Andrea.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 7:10 pm

Greg: I'm going to reply to a direct response to my post. I don't have any intention of turning it into one of those Trejo-Lazar unending marathons, or the older Bill Miller-David Healy-Craig Lamson photo "debates" with which we're all too familiar. I will have my say and Cliff can respond to that if he wants, but I'll try to avoid adding more to it. Especially since I've been much too busy in the midst of blog material. Also, I'm not going to volunteer Albert for anything ever again, and obviously I'm not going to comment on any issues involving the Spanish language. Take care, mi amigo

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 7:22 pm

Hello, Cliff, and welcome to this forum. It's a good place to be if you're interested in intelligent discussion that might amount to something instead of going around in the usual circles. I will say at the outset that I'm sorry for any insults. I had a cold. wrote:
dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:Looks like Cliff Varnell and John Dolva are making sure to placate the Master before he gets his axe out again.
Cliff Varnell wrote:"There is a peculiar strain of thinking which mistakes the right to free speech for a license to abuse one's host with inflammatory language.

"This is John Simkin's joint.  A man of the Left, our John...."

Bwaaaahahahahahahaha       (there's no Emoticon for a mouth agape and eyes blinking, stunned)

Nice removal of context.  I was referring to Dave Reitzes comparing John Simkin's policy of removing the posts and threads to the Winston Smith Experience, which I find a shrill over-reaction.

99% of everything written on-line about the JFK assassination could be shit-canned and the world wouldn't be worse off for it.

If the Ed Forum goes down tomorrow, oh well...I kick it at Deep Politics nowadays, anyway.
=============================

I quoted 2 and a half sentences you wrote. I made the explicit point that I felt it is absurd to think of "our John" being "a man of the Left." I left unsaid the implicit point that you were sucking up to "our John." The context had no bearing on the main point I made: a couple of people were "making sure to placate the Master before he gets his axe out again."

You can disagree with my take on it, and you can and should feel insulted by my phrasing of it, but it's not like the "removal of context" is what made you look bad, or that the addition of the context would have improved things. I think it would have actually made it worse, since you were/are defending Simkin's arbitrary ego-driven censorship.

And unfortunately you've now provided still more information about your attitude towards what some of us are trying to do in these endeavors. I guess as long as you, yourself and you have a place to hang out, everything else can go to hell.



"Of the Left" in the sense that an old Soviet Commissar for Political Education is "of the Left"??

Sure.  There are authoritarian/totalitarian types of all ideological stripes.

I can't put a guy who runs a forum on the internet in the same league as those at the levers of real power.
=========================

My comparison might be a little exaggerated, but an old Soviet Commissar would have been a bureaucratic functionary, not someone "at the levers of real power." But then again, anyone who runs a forum geared to "conspiracy research" (particularly President Kennedy's assassination) certainly does hold a position of some authority within the community of "conspiracy researchers." It would be a different story if it were a comic book forum or a fishin'-an'-huntin' forum. In any event, the questionable attitude was to the idea that ANY person of an authoritarian mindset can or should be considered as "of the Left."
===================


Hostage taker. Killer of hostages taken. Every single post and thread there is and will remain hostage to the arbitrary whims of a sad fellow who continues to constantly show that sycophancy is the highest value in his moral universe.


Killer?  Wow.  I'm not as impressed with the significance of these posts and threads or with the outrage over Simkin's villainy.

Hyper-dramatic over-reaction, seems to me...
=======================

Yes, I've already gathered that you don't think much of this project you're involved in. But as some are aware, the Simkin Forum began as an actual Education Forum and has a lot more to it than just the JFK section; while the JFK section itself has an enormous amount of important historical information beyond this whole issue of a bunched-up collar on a suit-jacket, or the great T1 vs. T3 vertebrae debate. I will re-post what I said a couple months ago to Traveller11, as a summary of what the whole mess was about (at least from my perspective, and if anyone here strongly disagrees with my take on it, they haven't as yet made it known):


I became a member of the Simkin Forum on April 4, 2006. I subsequently made about 520 posts there. This included taking the time and trouble to type out long passages from books by authors like Fedor Dostoevski, Gabriel Garcia-Marquez, William Shirer, Michael Moorcock, among many others. (In the interests of "education," you see) I also confronted issues like antisemitism and bigotry in general as well as taking the trouble to defend Mr. Simkin himself (from public detractors like Don Bohning) and his Forum (from members who seemed intent on being completely disruptive, like those who went on to form the Deep Politics Forum). I also had the chance to debate and question people like Mel Ayton and Dan Moldea. And I've encountered just about every kind of person possible there, including a few that I regard as complete loons. (Doesn't make them bad people necessarily; their minds are just in a different place than most)

About 7 months ago there was a bit of controversy as Mr. Simkin decided to turn Jim DiEugenio and Tom Scully (one of the EF moderators) into "guests" because of their questioning of one of Simkin's friends. Some of us wrote posts very critical of this decision. Martin Hay, for instance, subsequently asked for his membership to be deleted (Simkin responded, "Will do."). Robert Charles-Dunne, after making a typically thorough and fair-minded critique, advised that it would be his last post unless the decision was reversed. And I made a fairly challenging 2nd post on the subject and then removed my avatar (as I intended for it to be my last word at that forum).

Unfortunately, Ray Carroll responded to my post, closing with a quote from a Mafia figure about how "shedding a little blood helps clear the air"; since my own post had closed with mention of the massacre of schoolchildren at Newtown, Connecticut, the implications of Ray's concluding statement seemed just horrible and I wanted to plead with him to clarify that he was not thinking of the Newtown events in making the Mafia quote. When I went to log in, I found I was unable to reply and after checking my profile found I was under a "restriction from posting." Since I was still able to send PMs, I sent one to Gary Loughran, then an Admin, to advise of my new status and to ask him to make the overture to Carroll that I had wanted to make myself (he did so, and Carroll came to his right mind long enough to clarify that Newtown had been the last thing on his mind in making the quote, particularly as he lived only 80 miles from there).

A couple nights later I went back to the forum and found that my posts in the critical thread had disappeared. I looked around a bit and found that I didn't appear to have ANY posts anywhere. Then I checked my profile and found that I had 0 posts. No warning given, no advisement, just summary deletion of all 520 or so posts. Then I came here, in order to advise that people should move quickly if they wanted to retrieve their own posts there (in light of the promised shutdown of EF), and also to brighten Greg's days.

But then you'd have to excuse Varnell, since he's American and consequently hasn't the slightest fucking idea what "the Left" could possibly mean.

You have no idea of the ideological battles that raged in the American hardcore punk rock scene in the 80's.
It would help if you presented some idea of these "ideological battles" occurring among hardcore punk rockers in the 1980s. It's possible I may have missed it, but I can't recall hearing about punk rocker protests against Honduras being turned into a US staging area for covert operations to overthrow the government of Nicaragua. Or about punk rockers being responsible for uncovering the Iran-Contra scandal. Or about punk rockers being involved in any progressive domestic causes.

An "ideological battle" is not a debate about whether whiskey is preferable to heroin, or anal sex preferable to vaginal; and being "of the Left" has a lot more substance to it than how cool is it to take a shit onstage. Self-indulgence and self-destructive behavior due to a pessimistic angst-ridden world-view doesn't count; it's just being submissive while pretending to be "tough."


Last edited by dwdunn(akaDan) on Tue 04 Mar 2014, 7:24 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : the usual formatting issues)

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Re: Fetzer On Dieugenio

Post by Sponsored content Today at 10:34 pm


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