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William Morgan & Lee Oswald

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William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by greg parker on Tue 08 Jun 2010, 10:22 pm

Morgan had served in the army in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge. Oswald served in the Marines in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge.

Morgan went to Cuba to join the revolution in late 1957. Oswald went to Russia in late 1959 threatening to provide radar information to the Soviets.

Morgan stated in mid 1959 that he would "kill any American Marines" who attempted to invade Cuba or to interfere with Castro's objectives. Oswald wrote to his brother Robert that same year from Moscow that "In the event of war I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government – Any American."

A novel was written based on Morgan's exploits called "The Great American". A novel was written based on Oswald's exploits prior to the assassination called "The Idle Warriors"

Morgan is generally accepted as having been an agent of the CIA when he went to Cuba.

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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 2:09 pm

greg parker wrote:Morgan had served in the army in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge. Oswald served in the Marines in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge.

Morgan went to Cuba to join the revolution in late 1957. Oswald went to Russia in late 1959 threatening to provide radar information to the Soviets.

Morgan stated in mid 1959 that he would "kill any American Marines" who attempted to invade Cuba or to interfere with Castro's objectives. Oswald wrote to his brother Robert that same year from Moscow that "In the event of war I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government – Any American."

A novel was written based on Morgan's exploits called "The Great American". A novel was written based on Oswald's exploits prior to the assassination called "The Idle Warriors"

Morgan is generally accepted as having been an agent of the CIA when he went to Cuba.
From Nelson Delgado's testimony:

Mr. DELGADO - Right. We were going to become officers, you know, enlisted men. We are dreaming now, right? So we were going to become officers. So we had a head start, you see. We were getting honorable discharges, while Morgan--there was a fellow in Cuba at the time, he got a dishonorable discharge from, the Army, and he went to Castro and fought with Castro in the Escambres. 
Mr. LIEBELER - A fellow named Morgan? 
Mr. DELGADO - Yes; Henry Morgan--not Henry, but it was Morgan, though; and at the end of the revolution he came out with the rank of major, you know. So we were all thinking, well, honorable discharge, and I speak Spanish and he's got his ideas of how a government should be run, you know, the same line as Castro did at that time. 

From http://www.wnd.com/2002/04/13606/

"In September 1959, the U.S. State Department, at the insistence of Pennsylvania Rep. Francis E. Walter, revoked William Morgan's citizenship. Walter, chairman of the House Un-American Activities Committee, demanded the action based on a section of the Immigration and Nationality Act that forbids U.S. citizens to serve in foreign armies. Morgan was said to be devastated by the action. He argued that he had never done anything against the interests of the U.S."

One visitor to Morgan in Cuba was Leo Cherne. Cherne was head of the International Rescue Committee (CIA sponsored) and was also involved in the anti-Castro group, Citizens Committee for a Free Cuba. It was the Rescue Committee which sponsored LHO back from the Cold.

From a footnote in LHOCW, Nathan Straus, III was involved with Cherne from at least 1971 in a group called The American Friends of a Free Haiti. 

Straus was from the same family that was instrumental in establishing and financing Youth House, the migrant apartments which housed the Rosenbergs and they also owned the department store that employed the wife of George Hunter White and the publishing company which produced E Howatd Hunt's spy novels. Additionally a member the family was a regular on Naushon Island - holiday playground of the Paine's - and one of the places Ruth Paine visited before picking Marina up in New Orleans.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by M.Ellis on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 4:04 pm

greg parker wrote:Morgan had served in the army in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge. Oswald served in the Marines in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge.

Morgan went to Cuba to join the revolution in late 1957. Oswald went to Russia in late 1959 threatening to provide radar information to the Soviets.

Morgan stated in mid 1959 that he would "kill any American Marines" who attempted to invade Cuba or to interfere with Castro's objectives. Oswald wrote to his brother Robert that same year from Moscow that "In the event of war I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government – Any American."

A novel was written based on Morgan's exploits called "The Great American". A novel was written based on Oswald's exploits prior to the assassination called "The Idle Warriors"

Morgan is generally accepted as having been an agent of the CIA when he went to Cuba.

Small point of correction, on 11 September, 1959, Oswald received a 'Hardship Discharge'. That was basically an an early 'honorable discharge' due to a hardship. He was released to inactive military reserve status. 

His discharge was changed to 'Undesirable' Discharge, almost one year later, on 13 September, 1960, after it was learned he defected to the USSR. 

Undesirable discharges no longer exist. Today, they're called 'Other than Honorable' discharges. Back then, they were given out for what was perceived as moral failings or unfitness for military. Back then, hey were also known as 'Section 8's' - drugs, homosexuality, defecting to the USSR, inter alia. They're handed down following an administrative proceeding - not a court martial.

On 20 June, 1962, LHO wrote to the Navy Discharge Review Board asking that his discharge be reviewed and changed back from 'undesirable' to what it had been originally. On 25 July, 1963, that request was denied. (Note: LHO wrote a handwritten brief to accompany his application. I think I will make an effort to read that.)

Undesirable discharges were considered a notch or two above Dishonorable Discharge, which was the lowest of the low. However, they could be disastrous to one's employment prospects because of the moral taint that accompanied them. 

A Dishonorable Discharge OTOH, could only given out following a judicial proceeding called a General Court Martial. So Morgan would have had to have been found guilty of some serious offense and likely done prison time, to merit a Dishonorable Discharge.


CE 780, 
Wiki on Military Discharges
Appendix 13, page 689, WC.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/undesirable-discharge/

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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:18 pm

M.Ellis wrote:
greg parker wrote:Morgan had served in the army in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge. Oswald served in the Marines in Japan and received a dishonorable discharge.

Morgan went to Cuba to join the revolution in late 1957. Oswald went to Russia in late 1959 threatening to provide radar information to the Soviets.

Morgan stated in mid 1959 that he would "kill any American Marines" who attempted to invade Cuba or to interfere with Castro's objectives. Oswald wrote to his brother Robert that same year from Moscow that "In the event of war I would kill any American who put a uniform on in defense of the American Government – Any American."

A novel was written based on Morgan's exploits called "The Great American". A novel was written based on Oswald's exploits prior to the assassination called "The Idle Warriors"

Morgan is generally accepted as having been an agent of the CIA when he went to Cuba.

Small point of correction, on 11 September, 1959, Oswald received a 'Hardship Discharge'. That was basically an an early 'honorable discharge' due to a hardship. He was released to inactive military reserve status. 

His discharge was changed to 'Undesirable' Discharge, almost one year later, on 13 September, 1960, after it was learned he defected to the USSR. 

Undesirable discharges no longer exist. Today, they're called 'Other than Honorable' discharges. Back then, they were given out for what was perceived as moral failings or unfitness for military. Back then, hey were also known as 'Section 8's' - drugs, homosexuality, defecting to the USSR, inter alia. They're handed down following an administrative proceeding - not a court martial.

On 20 June, 1962, LHO wrote to the Navy Discharge Review Board asking that his discharge be reviewed and changed back from 'undesirable' to what it had been originally. On 25 July, 1963, that request was denied. (Note: LHO wrote a handwritten brief to accompany his application. I think I will make an effort to read that.)

Undesirable discharges were considered a notch or two above Dishonorable Discharge, which was the lowest of the low. However, they could be disastrous to one's employment prospects because of the moral taint that accompanied them. 

A Dishonorable Discharge OTOH, could only given out following a judicial proceeding called a General Court Martial. So Morgan would have had to have been found guilty of some serious offense and likely done prison time, to merit a Dishonorable Discharge.


CE 780, 
Wiki on Military Discharges
Appendix 13, page 689, WC.
http://definitions.uslegal.com/u/undesirable-discharge/
You are absolutely right. Thanks for the correction.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 5:27 pm

A Dishonorable Discharge OTOH, could only given out following a judicial proceeding called a General Court Martial. So Morgan would have had to have been found guilty of some serious offense and likely done prison time, to merit a Dishonorable Discharge.

This was my source


After only a few weeks in Japan, Morgan married an attractive Japanese woman who worked in a nightclub. A short while later, he went AWOL at least twice, was court-martialed on Nov. 7, 1947, and thrown into the Kyoto stockade for three months. He promptly escaped after overpowering a guard and stealing his uniform and weapon. Recaptured, he was again court-martialed, found guilty of escape, assault and robbery, and sentenced to five years of hard labor.

Declared a “recalcitrant military prisoner,” Morgan was transported to the maximum-security disciplinary barracks at Camp Cooke, Calif. (today Vandenberg Air Force Base). At Camp Cooke, he entertained other prisoners by spinning fanciful stories about his being a direct descendant of another William Morgan who, in 1826, became quite notorious after vanishing from his upstate New York home. Morgan’s chatter soon earned him the nickname “Gabby.”

After his sentence was reduced to three years, Morgan was transferred to the federal correctional institution in Chillicothe, Ohio. There he was placed in solitary confinement for attempting to escape, fighting and refusing to work. He spent his last months of imprisonment at the federal facility in Milan, Mich., and was released on April 11, 1950.

A confidential FBI memorandum dated May 5, 1959, states that Morgan was given a dishonorable discharge from the Army in 1950, and that “he reportedly is [a] veteran of the Korean War and is described as a judo expert.” Oddly, none of Morgan’s surviving family remember his being in Korea. His brother-in-law, Edric Costain, said, “I don’t know where that came from. He was an Army veteran, not one that anyone is very proud of, who had been in Japan, not Korea.”


Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2002/04/13606/#Pyyy6KB4FtlRS5xi.99
So there was another point of similarity I previously missed: "After only a few weeks in Japan, Morgan married an attractive Japanese woman who worked in a nightclub." Oswald was seeing a Japanese girl in a nightclub, as well.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by M.Ellis on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:01 pm

Interesting story about Morgan. He was no patsy. He was a real warrior. 

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4975

----
Re: The undesirable discharge, deMohrenschildt mentions a banker friend of his, who refused to give LHO a job. His final pretext was the undesirable discharge. 

If one were setting up a patsy, an undesirable discharge would fit right in with the defection to the Soviet Union. You start to get the picture of a morally unfit weird-o. 

But I wonder how did a guy with an undesirable discharge and a history of defection to the USSR get a trainee position at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall?

Strange. 

LHO's discharge was changed in September, 1960. John Connally did not become Secretary of the Navy until 1961 and only stayed eleven months in the job. LHO did not apply to change his dischrge until 20 June, 1962, long after Connally was gone. 

So the idea that LHO blamed Connally for his discharge is not supported by the dates involved. 

His hand-written brief to the Navy was pretty good actually. Well-written. 

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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by greg parker on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:09 pm

M.Ellis wrote:Interesting story about Morgan. He was no patsy. He was a real warrior. 

You can be both. He was executed after all.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4975

----
Re: The undesirable discharge, deMohrenschildt mentions a banker friend of his, who refused to give LHO a job. His final pretext was the undesirable discharge. 

If one were setting up a patsy, an undesirable discharge would fit right in with the defection to the Soviet Union. You start to get the picture of a morally unfit weird-o. 

But I wonder how did a guy with an undesirable discharge and a history of defection to the USSR get a trainee position at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall?

Strange. 

Agreed.

LHO's discharge was changed in September, 1960. John Connally did not become Secretary of the Navy until 1961 and only stayed eleven months in the job. LHO did not apply to change his dischrge until 20 June, 1962, long after Connally was gone.

It had nothing to do with Connally or the discharge status. 


So the idea that LHO blamed Connally for his discharge is not supported by the dates involved. 

His hand-written brief to the Navy was pretty good actually. Well-written. 

I've been told his discharge could easily have been fixed with help from competent attorney. The basis for it was in error. He had not defected.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: William Morgan & Lee Oswald

Post by M.Ellis on Tue 26 Aug 2014, 8:31 pm

greg parker wrote:
M.Ellis wrote:Interesting story about Morgan. He was no patsy. He was a real warrior. 

You can be both. He was executed after all.

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=4975

----
Re: The undesirable discharge, deMohrenschildt mentions a banker friend of his, who refused to give LHO a job. His final pretext was the undesirable discharge. 

If one were setting up a patsy, an undesirable discharge would fit right in with the defection to the Soviet Union. You start to get the picture of a morally unfit weird-o. 

But I wonder how did a guy with an undesirable discharge and a history of defection to the USSR get a trainee position at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall?

Strange. 

Agreed.

LHO's discharge was changed in September, 1960. John Connally did not become Secretary of the Navy until 1961 and only stayed eleven months in the job. LHO did not apply to change his dischrge until 20 June, 1962, long after Connally was gone.

It had nothing to do with Connally or the discharge status. 


So the idea that LHO blamed Connally for his discharge is not supported by the dates involved. 

His hand-written brief to the Navy was pretty good actually. Well-written. 

I've been told his discharge could easily have been fixed with help from competent attorney. The basis for it was in error. He had not defected.

You're right. You can be both.  I hadn't thought of that. Morgan must have been a charismatic, swashbuckling guy though. LHO had anti-charisma IMO. 

It would not surprise me if an attorney helped him with that brief. It was not bad. 
On-point and few misspelled words or grammar errors.

Article on Morgan in the New Yorker.  http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/05/28/the-yankee-comandante

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