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A New Oswald Lookalike

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Martin Hay on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 6:28 pm

Somebody posted this photo to facebook apparently showing a bunch of witnesses in the sheriff's office later that afternoon. I'm thinking our man is the guy on the right:


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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 7:03 pm

Thanks Martin.

I'm going to do back-flip now and say it is Robert Edwards.


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Martin Hay on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 7:15 pm

Do you have a picture for comparison?

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 7:57 pm

Martin Hay wrote:Do you have a picture for comparison?

No. I base it on his and Fischer's testimony.

I think this testimony establishes that Edwards is around the right age:
Mr. BELIN - Where do you live, Mr. Edwards?
Mr. EDWARDS - Tahlequah, Okla.
Mr. BELIN - What do you do up there?
Mr. EDWARDS - I am going to school, college, Northeastern State College.
Mr. BELIN - What year of school are you in? Are you a freshman?
Mr. EDWARDS - No; I am a senior.
Mr. BELIN - You are a senior.
Mr. EDWARDS - Right.
Mr. BELIN - You have been going up to school there for several years?
Mr. EDWARDS - Two years I went there. I laid out last year and worked here in Dallas.
Mr. BELIN - Are you originally from Dallas?
Mr. EDWARDS - No; Graham, Tex.
Mr. BELIN - Where did you go to school?
Mr. EDWARDS - Graham High School in Graham, Tex.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got out of school?
Mr. EDWARDS - I attended Abilene College.
Mr. BELIN - For a year?
Mr. EDWARDS - One year.
Mr. BELIN - Then what?
Mr. EDWARDS - Decatur Baptist College, which is a junior college.
Mr. BELIN - Then what did you do?
Mr. EDWARDS - Northeastern State College in Tahlequah, Okla.
Mr. BELIN - Laid out last year?
Mr. EDWARDS - Yes; I am finishing up this semester.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do last fall?
Mr. EDWARDS - I worked at the courthouse there.
Mr. BELIN - Is that the Dallas County Courthouse?
Mr. EDWARDS - Right.

Then we go to Fischer...

Mr. BELIN - What did you do after that, then?
Mr. FISCHER - After that, we went back up to the building where we work--the records building--and went on upstairs to the office. And that's where Bob and I separated and--he had some things to do---I think he had some stuff that had to go down to another office and he left. After we got up there, he got some paper and then left. I stayed there for a little while and---
Mr. BELIN - Well, first of all, about when did you get back to the records building do you feel?
Mr. FISCHER - Uh--it must have been 5--5 minutes after the first shot was fired. Something like that.
Mr. BELIN - All right. When you went back there, did you walk by the front of the Texas School Book Depository Building?
Mr. FISCHER - No; when we went back, we came we went back the same way we came. We went straight across Elm and then up to Houston on the south side of Elm, and then crossed.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice whether or not people were going in or coming out of the School Book Depository Building?
Mr. FISCHER - There seemed to be a lot of people around--uh--the front; but, of course, there were a lot of people all over the street.
Mr. BELIN - All right. You got back up to the building--the records building--and then what did you do?
Mr. FISCHER - Well, as I said, we went up to the fourth floor to our office. Uh---I stayed there for 5 or 10 minutes. Bob had left. And then I went next door in the purchasing department where they've got a radio. I was trying I didn't---I don't guess I really believed yet that it had happened--that the President had been shot. And--uh--I was trying to find out on the radio just exactly what did happen.
And I stayed in the purchasing department 5 minutes or so--well, 5 or 10 minutes, and then I went back down the hall where some people had a radio standing out in the hall. They had another station on, and still nobody knew anything. Then, I went back to the office about--oh, maybe 5 or 10 minutes till 1, and--uh--we heard a bunch of sirens, police cars, and leaned out the window, and police cars were all surrounding the Texas School Book Depository Building. And when I saw all that and saw the detectives in the window, the officers, I knew that--I realized that the shots--that they must have the assassin in there or the man who did the shooting--or something was wrong with the building.
So, I realized then that it possibly was the man I saw since he was the only one I remember in a window and that it had something to do with the building--that it's possible that the man I saw had something to do with it.
About that time a deputy from the sheriff's office came up and asked me if I was Ronald Fischer, and I said, "Yes ;" and he said that Sheriff Decker wanted to see me in his office right now.
Mr. BELIN - About what time was this now?
Mr. FISCHER - This was at--oh--1 o'clock on or about 1 o'clock.
Mr. BELIN - You then went to Sheriff Decker's office?
Mr. FISCHER - I went to Decker's office and--uh--Bob Edwards was in there. He looked up--and he had given them my name and told them--at least, this is what he told me that he told them that we had both been standing there together and had seen this man in the window of the School Book Depository Building. So, that's why they came to get me because he had told them.
There were a lot of other people in the office 12 or 15 other people. They all seemed to be connected with it in some way or another. And I noticed, too, in Sheriff Decker's office was this man and woman and two boys that we had talked to down the street there on Elm that had hit the ground when the shots started.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 7:59 pm

I remain concerned as to why Sweatt did not send James Crawford to the Sheriff's office for a statement.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Martin Hay on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 8:45 pm

Thanks, Greg.

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Wed 18 Dec 2013, 10:35 pm

Is there any film verifying that Fischer and Edwards were together any stage, before, during, after the assassination?

The whole lookalike/white shirt thing is bothering me. Edwards is not asked about his post-assassination moves or how he come to end up in the sheriff's office.

We learn from Fischer that Edwards had to go to another office (presumably within the court house building), but he somehow instead winds up in Decker's hands?

And then there is this from Fischer "He looked up--and he had given them my name and told them--at least, this is what he told me that he told them." It just seems a curious comment to make...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by beowulf on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 6:17 am

In that picture of the sheriff's office, the guy on the right sitting down wearing glasses and a suit, he looks familiar. Anyone recognize him? I guess its too much to hope that its either Mac Wallace or Larry Florer. Surprised)

Speaking of Florer, interesting that Dallas PD records place him and Jim Braden in TSBD (and not DalTex building).
----
Voluntary Statement, by Jim Braden. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository after the assassination, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001272 1 page 05 02 011 1272-001.gif
Voluntary Statement, by Larry Florer. Statement regarding use of a telephone inside the Texas School Book Depository, (Photocopy), 11/22/63. 00001286 1 page 05 02 023 1286-001.gif
(emphasis added)

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 6:47 am

I'm pretty sure it was Florer who was arrested and had the two man police escort to save him from potential mob violence...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by beowulf on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 7:04 am

Right, and then Florer gave a voluntary witness statement (in which he's rather vague about which building he went into to use the phone).

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Larry Florer being taken into custody

Post by Guest on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:20 am




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Larry Florer being interviewed

Post by Guest on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:23 am


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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:30 am

That Sheriff's Department photo was taken by Jim Murray:

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=19

I'm virtually certain the guy on the extreme right is James Crawford, who is the man in that youtube clip, from outside the TSBD, posted earlier. He just happens to have a similar facial profile to Robert Oswald.

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:32 am

The wave in his hairdo is just like that of the man in the 1st picture posted in this thread.

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Mark A. O'Blazney on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 8:25 pm

Note Mr. Edwards' (Crawfords'?) tie clasp, with the great State of Texas.  Our eyes are upon thee!  Seeing things again.  Thanks for all this.  I get mixed up sometimes.  Don't we all?


Last edited by Mark A. O'Blazney on Fri 20 Dec 2013, 8:46 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Thu 19 Dec 2013, 9:07 pm

Richard Gilbride wrote:That Sheriff's Department photo was taken by Jim Murray:

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=125&pos=19

I'm virtually certain the guy on the extreme right is James Crawford, who is the man in that youtube clip, from outside the TSBD, posted earlier. He just happens to have a similar facial profile to Robert Oswald.

I agree it's the same person, but there is no statement by Crawford in the DPD files and what we see in the sheriff's office photo strongly suggests it is Bob Edwards (see Fischer testimony posted earlier).

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Fri 20 Dec 2013, 12:57 am

I have to agree that Ronald Fischer's testimony, about seeing a man & woman w/ two kids in the Sheriff's Office (i.e. the Chism family) when he was in there with Edwards is very persuasive.  I had a memory of that photo being ID'd as Crawford, but couldn't locate the labeled photo last night. So the unidentified witness in all of the photos in question on this thread are probably of Robert Edwards.

But how James Crawford ever came to the authorities with a statement is still a puzzle. I can't find the relevant FBI interview on Mary Ferrell- 105-82555-1567 pp. 20, 22, 24. Both Crawford and his co-witness, Mary Ann Mitchell, made it into the Warren Repor, on p. 68. In her testimony she said she went back into their office as people started "milling around...I did not come out again... That's when I left and he came with me." And he said he talked to deputy sheriff Alan Sweatt about 10-20 minutes after the shooting.

I guess the conclusion is that Crawford also returned to his job at the Records Building after talking to Sweatt. Maybe he went to the authorities on his own initiative some days later. But that record got lost.

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Faroe Islander on Mon 23 Dec 2013, 1:33 am

http://www.jfkassassinationgallery.com/displayimage.php?album=37&pos=17
here are some pictures from the office where this guy is being interviewed by the Police

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 1:48 am

In the Dallas Police Department files held on the City of Dallas website there is a photograph that was originally in the JFK assassination folders.  It is described as "Oswald Lookalike" on the website.  Anybody know who it is or know whether anybody has looked into this before?


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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Robert Charles-Dunne on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 4:40 am

Lee:

I suspect it's a photo of Donald Wayne House who was arrested by Fort Worth police on 11/22/63.  There's a photo and film clip @:

http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?topic=7454.0

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 5:18 am

Thanks, Robert.

Donald Wayne House arrested in Fort Worth:


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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by James Richards on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 12:43 pm

Lee,

That photo you posted was also published in one of the Dallas papers at the time. It was claimed to be Lee Oswald. Now whether they just made a mistake and used the wrong photo, who knows?

I checked into this way back and there seemed to be no correction or follow up. I was told a few years back that this guy had been mixing in the Florida anti-Castro scene and was being handled by Hal Feeney.

I was not ever able to find anything to back this up. FWIW.

James

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by Guest on Wed 01 Jan 2014, 11:08 pm

James Richards wrote:Lee,

That photo you posted was also published in one of the Dallas papers at the time. It was claimed to be Lee Oswald. Now whether they just made a mistake and used the wrong photo, who knows?

I checked into this way back and there seemed to be no correction or follow up. I was told a few years back that this guy had been mixing in the Florida anti-Castro scene and was being handled by Hal Feeney.

I was not ever able to find anything to back this up. FWIW.

James

Cheers, James

You've done a lot of work on Hal Feeney in the past and even tried to contact him before he passed away.  What happened because you mention you wished you hadn't tried.

I've looked at every photograph of Donald Wayne House and see a resemblance with the lookalike posted but I'm not sure it is him.

Lee

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by greg parker on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 7:05 am

If it's not House, I'd look at one of these...

Bobby Joiner, 34; his three nephews, Roy Joiner, 17, Raymond Joiner, 16, and Gary Joiner, 17; Gene Guinn, 31, and William L. Cummings, 17, all from Grand Prairie, near Dallas.  

Just to show what a nice bunch they were...

ADULT CHRISTIANITY NEWS - AUTUMN 2000 LDS Priest Gets 68 Years for Molesting 10-year-old Girl 07.19.00 Dallas TX


Gene Guinn, 68, a Mormon hight priest has been sentenced to 68 years in prison for molesting a ten-year-old girl. Five other women testified at the trial claiming that Guinn had fondled or molested them also. Guinn faced a longer sentence due to a 1975 involuntary manslaughter conviction. SOURCE: AP

Unfortunately can locate any photos of any of them for comparison.

Ray Joiner's arrest form:


_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

Post by James Richards on Thu 02 Jan 2014, 8:47 am

Lee,

Hal Feeney was not very open to my advances. He made some threats regarding digging into his background and he also threatened me if I kept looking into Tony Izquierdo.

It was all very unpleasant.

James

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Re: A New Oswald Lookalike

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