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Mauser Rifle in TSBD

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Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by 9K116 on Wed 11 Aug 2010, 9:16 pm

Duncan MacRae posted frames from Aleya footage in Education Forum, showing the second rifle:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16383

Then there are question:
Could that be a weapon belonging to one of the DPD/sheriffs?
Imho, the Swedish Mauser rifle is wierd choise of American law enforcement officers. Traditionally, they prefer shotguns and, besides, shotgun is more safer for use in populated urban terrain (high powered rifles are overkill for distances policemen usually confront suspects, and their bullets has excess range, which in populated are can result in unwanted collateral damage). So, I believe it is unlikely the second rifle (Mauser) belongs to law enforcement officers.

This image, posted in the same forum, imho depicts shotgun as well:


I believe it is worth to ask any Weapon Expert in Education Forum (my observation indicates there are such people) how credible it is for Texas law enforcement officer to be armed with Mauser Rifle in 1963?

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Alyea Film. Interesting Stuff. What Say You Parks?

Post by Lee Harvey Coogan on Wed 18 Aug 2010, 7:55 pm

9K116 wrote:Duncan MacRae posted frames from Aleya footage in Education Forum, showing the second rifle:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=16383

Then there are question:
Could that be a weapon belonging to one of the DPD/sheriffs?
Imho, the Swedish Mauser rifle is wierd choise of American law enforcement officers. Traditionally, they prefer shotguns and, besides, shotgun is more safer for use in populated urban terrain (high powered rifles are overkill for distances policemen usually confront suspects, and their bullets has excess range, which in populated are can result in unwanted collateral damage). So, I believe it is unlikely the second rifle (Mauser) belongs to law enforcement officers.

This image, posted in the same forum, imho depicts shotgun as well:


I believe it is worth to ask any Weapon Expert in Education Forum (my observation indicates there are such people) how credible it is for Texas law enforcement officer to be armed with Mauser Rifle in 1963?

Now I think this is pretty interesting footage. What trained idiot cop would compromise a crime scene by leaving a gun barrel in a downward position possibly bending it or blocking it? (in contravention to any and all gun owner practice) in a location where another rifle had been discovered. Some may say 'only in Dallas'. But this type of stuff is the stuff that even if Oswald was guilty (which is something of a myth nowadays).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WQr4y1j4Gw&feature=related

Regardless, this looks glum for the LN'rs it looks like two freaking rifles are in the vicinity. Parks whats your take on this. Oh and could you be a darling if you get time. I wanna get your views on the Men on the 6th Floor and what you make of Mac Wallace. I don't really buy it myself.


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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by greg parker on Sun 22 Aug 2010, 10:45 pm

Regardless, this looks glum for the LN'rs it looks like two freaking rifles are in the vicinity. Parks whats your take on this. Oh and could you be a darling if you get time. I wanna get your views on the Men on the 6th Floor and what you make of Mac Wallace. I don't really buy it myself.

I agree with 9K. DPD used shotguns. Do we know for a fact that this is a Swedish Mauser? If so, how do we know? I have as much expertise with weapons as I do with picking Lotto numbers...

Sorry mate. Never read The Men on the 6th Floor.

The Mac Wallace allegation is a crock.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Guest on Tue 30 Nov 2010, 2:20 pm

what about roger craigs account of the mouser in the TSBD

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by greg parker on Tue 30 Nov 2010, 9:50 pm

jerry craig wrote:what about roger craigs account of the mouser in the TSBD

Jerry, I think your uncle's statements on this cannot be dismissed lightly.

The weapon in the photo here, I believe has been identied at the Ed Forum as Dallas Police issue.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Guest on Wed 01 Dec 2010, 3:26 pm

Jerry,

Any memories you might share about your uncle would be a pleasure to hear sometime, even in bits and pieces. I've never bought into the jive from his character-assassins.
Here's what he had to say in Evidence of Revision, Part 1, Episode 4:

"I believe Day pulled the rifle out and handed it to Captain Fritz, who held it up by the, uh- it had a strap on it. He held it up by the strap and asked if anyone knew what kind of rifle it was.

Well, by this time, Deputy Constable Seymour Weitzman had joined us. And, uh, Weitzman was a gun buff. He had a sporting goods store at one time. He was very good with weapons.

And he said, 'It looks like a Mauser'. And he walked over to Fritz. And Captain Fritz was holding the rifle up in the air. And I was standing next to Weitzman, who was standing next to Fritz, and we weren't any more than 6 or 8 inches from the rifle, and stamped right on the barrel, of the rifle, was '7.65 Mauser'. That's when Weitzman said, 'It is a Mauser', and pointed to the 7.65 Mauser stamp on the barrel."

INTERVIEWER: "There's an intonation to that statement that it should mean something."

ROGER CRAIG: "Well, the shells we found came from a 6.5 Eye-talian rifle. The two don't relate."

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:02 am

I was looking through some photos and I saw one that came from DVP's site (upper left) that gave me pause. I looked elsewhere for something to compare it with and discovered the same (?) photo in Robin Unger's gallery (upper right).
 

 
DVP's picture doesn't show the entire trigger guard assembly (if that's what it's called) in the same shade. The extended part is just a white outline; you only see the well-defined trigger guard. Unger's picture (upper right) shows the entire thing in white, as if all of it is reflecting light.
 
The lower picture shows the entire assembly as one piece, so I am puzzled why DVP's picture would suggest the extended piece was whited out and the trigger/trigger guard looks distinct and different.
 
Just an observation.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Robert Charles-Dunne on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:38 am

Perhaps I'm just going blind, but why do I not see in the top two copies of the same photo the bolt that is clearly evident on the bottom photo?

If the bolt is harder to see because it is cocked upward on the top photo(s), was it found bolt upright?

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:58 am

Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:Perhaps I'm just going blind, but why do I not see in the top two copies of the same photo the bolt that is clearly evident on the bottom photo?

If the bolt is harder to see because it is cocked upward on the top photo(s), was it found bolt upright?
The bolt appears to this blind bat to be in the "up" position (I can see the knob about in the middle of the scope). I have no idea if it was found that way. Shoot, I thought they found a Mauser at first anyway.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Guest on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 9:13 am



Above is a photo of a 7.65x53mm Argentinian Mauser carbine. Though this calibre was not as common as the 7mm and 7.92mm Mausers, it did see widespread use in many South American countries, as well as Spain, Turkey and Belgium.

Note the unusual fixed box magazine that appears to be part of the trigger guard. This feature was shared by the 6.5mm Carcano, and it is easy to see how the two rifles might be confused.


Last edited by Traveller11 on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 1:46 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Ray Mitcham on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 11:01 am

Stan Dane wrote:I was looking through some photos and I saw one that came from DVP's site (upper left) that gave me pause. I looked elsewhere for something to compare it with and discovered the same (?) photo in Robin Unger's gallery (upper right).
 

 
DVP's picture doesn't show the entire trigger guard assembly (if that's what it's called) in the same shade. The extended part is just a white outline; you only see the well-defined trigger guard. Unger's picture (upper right) shows the entire thing in white, as if all of it is reflecting light.
 
The lower picture shows the entire assembly as one piece, so I am puzzled why DVP's picture would suggest the extended piece was whited out and the trigger/trigger guard looks distinct and different.
 
Just an observation.
Stan, the two photos appear to be from a slightly different angle, and are two separate photos taken at the same time. The one on the left is taken from slightly to the right of the one on the right. Rolling Eyes  There are several slight differences in each photo. That would account for the white reflection being different in each one.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Stan Dane on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 3:51 pm

Ray Mitcham wrote:Stan, the two photos appear to be from a slightly different angle, and are two separate photos taken at the same time. The one on the left is taken from slightly to the right of the one on the right. Rolling Eyes  There are several slight differences in each photo. That would account for the white reflection being different in each one.
Thanks Ray, I see that. In upper right and lower pictures, the fixed box magazine/trigger guard looks like once piece to me. In the upper left picture, the trigger guard looks like one you'd see on a conventional rifle while the fixed boxed magazine looks whited out. I thought that looked odd (i.e., the lighting should affect both the same) and should have just left it at that rather than making the post in the first place.
 
And thanks, Bob, for the clarifying what the fixed box magazine thingy was called.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by ianlloyd on Wed 15 Jan 2014, 6:34 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Robert Charles-Dunne wrote:Perhaps I'm just going blind, but why do I not see in the top two copies of the same photo the bolt that is clearly evident on the bottom photo?

If the bolt is harder to see because it is cocked upward on the top photo(s), was it found bolt upright?
The bolt appears to this blind bat to be in the "up" position (I can see the knob about in the middle of the scope). I have no idea if it was found that way. Shoot, I thought they found a Mauser at first anyway.
I don't believe it was found that way (check Studebaker's photograph of it "in situ" when found between the boxes).

It may have been left in that position after Day and Fritz had ejected the last live round from the weapon.

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Faroe Islander on Thu 16 Jan 2014, 7:48 am

on Ed Forum there is a short footage of two rifles one Carcano and one ? maybe a Swedish Mauser, but I remember seeing a rifle being taken out of the TSBD by a policeofficer, it was a Remington 8.
The magasin looks very much like the Carcano and the ammo is also round nosed like the Carcano and even the same caliber ? 
http://thegreatmodel8.remingtonsociety.com/

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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

Post by Guest on Thu 16 Jan 2014, 2:41 pm

The Remington Model 8 was chambered, in one version, in a .25 calibre model. However, while being close to the 6.5 mm calibre and being a roundnosed bullet, it would still not be the same bullet. Plus, things like rifling marks left on the bullet might be different, due to a different number of rifling grooves on the two rifles and possible different rates of twist of the rifling.

The Model 8 was, at one time, used as a police rifle, and was available in modified "police only" versions that accepted detachable 15 and 20 round magazines. Texas Ranger Frank Hamer, famed pursuer of Bonnie and Clyde, had a customized 15 round Model 8, and there were at least two Model 8's present at the ambush of Bonnie and Clyde.



Below, Dallas Police Dept. detective leaving the TSBD carrying a Remington Model 8. (possibly a Model 81 - both were used as police guns)



Comparison of Model 8 and Model 81; Model 8 on bottom.


Coincidentally, the Model 8 and 81 required a scope to be side mounted on the left side of the receiver, as with the 6.5mm Carcano.






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Re: Mauser Rifle in TSBD

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