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Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

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Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Sun 15 Aug 2010, 10:06 am

"He returned to hdq and put his bike away. He gave a statement and found out from the officer who had also taken a statement from Mr Truly that the man he accosted on the second floor of the TSBD was Oswald."

The officer who took statements from Baker & Truly was Marvin Johnson. However, since Truly's statement is dated 23/11, he could not have informed Baker of what Truly had said until after that date.

In his own UNDATED statement, this is what Johnson had said:
After determining the origin of the shots, he jumped from his motor and ran into the building. He found a man who said he was the building manager. Officer Baker and the building manager then went to a stairway and started up the stairs to search the building. On the 4th floor Officer Baker apprehended a man that was walking away from the stairway on that floor. Officer Baker started to search the man, but the building manager stated that the man was an employee of the company and was known to him. Officer Baker released the man and continued his search of the building. Officer Baker later identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man he had seen on the 4th floor of the Texas School Book Depository."

At the end of his statement, he added,
"When Patrolman ML Baker identified Lee Harvey Oswald as the man that he stopped in the Texas School Book Depository Building, Patrolman Baker was in the Homicide Bureau giving an affidavit and Oswald was brought into the room to talk to some Secret Service men. When Baker saw Oswald he stated, 'that is the man I stopped on the 4th floor of the School Book Depository.'"

Which contradicts his own earlier statement that Baker identified Oswald LATER i.e. some time after his statement was taken - not during.

Baker went on to testify that he had recognised Oswald while he was giving statement to Johnson.

It appears to me that Baker let out a little of the truth to the HSCA interviewer when he said that Johnson informed him that it was Oswald he had accosted on the 2nd floor.

They held off any official statement from Truly until it became clear what they could safely say.

The problem was, it was NOT Oswald Truly had vouched for on the 3rd or (probably) 4th floor, and Mrs Reid had said she had seen Oswald on the second floor with a coke. Oswald himself was saying he bought a coke from the second floor to have with his lunch down on the first floor.

That story was then given to Baker, who would never again talk about any 4th floor encounter.

The chronology then, appears to be:

Baker's statement taken on 11/22

Problems for police case identified as a result of above Baker statement

Further investigation uncovers what Reid witnessed

Reid & Truly give statements 23/11. Truly debuts new official story

Johnson gives this version to Baker who has some trouble reconciling events to fit - particularly in regard to whether or not Oswald had a coke.

See also: thread, "Oswald's two cop encounters"

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 5:53 am

Confirmation from Stavis Ellis that Baker stopped a man on the 3rd or 4th floor of the TSBD (page 3 of the following link):
 
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/7204/rec/8
 
 
Captain Fritz's December 23 report to Curry, where he explains that Baker stopped "Oswald" on the 3rd or 4th floor, and as he was coming down the stairs (page 4 of the following link):
 
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/26334/rec/9
 
 
Greg, it sure seems strange that Fritz would report to Curry that Oswald was stopped coming down the stairs instead of inside the lunchroom, and it seems to me that Roy Truly was the mastermind behind this storey; in order to discredit both Baker's encounter with Oswald on the first floor, and also the encounter with the real shooter.
 
Also, see page 16 of the following link:
 
"They noted that Oswald had been seen running down the stairs...."
 
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/26565/rec/8

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 9:56 am

Hasan, that John Armstrong collection is great. There really is enough evidence for 5 or 6 mutually inconsistent conspiracies buried in there. Surprised)

One thing I learned skimming through it, in Baker's September 23, 1964 affidavit for WC, he had this cross out--- "I saw a man standing in the lunchroom, holding a coke" (I've made the point that in most of the US South, coke is a generic term for soda, inclusive of Pepsi and Dr. Pepper).  He has also had this crossout I had never seen before--- "On the second or the third floor, where the lunchroom was located". (page 2)
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34249/rec/118

I suspect Baker really did stop someone on the third floor at the drinking fountain (as Major Ellis recounted to HSCA what Baker told him, your first link). And it probably really was a third floor employee (weren't there publishers on that floor?) because Dorothy Garner would have noticed someone coming down past the 4th floor before Truly and Baker came up.

On the other hand, if Garner did see someone (whose initials were not LHO) pass through 4th floor or worse saw him confronted by Marrion Baker right in front of her, she'd surely get the "don't be a hero, just walk away" speech from the Feds and then never breathed a word of it.

Final point, in Baker's original Nov. 22 affidavit (same link as above, pg. 14) there's a crossout I can't decipher, replaced by allcaps words in "I SAW A man walking away..."
There's a second crossout, "I ???? called to the man", I'd wager Baker started to write "hollered" and replaced it with "called".

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 2:34 pm

Great finds, Hasan! I think Sean Murphy may have found the second one before - but the other two are definitely new to me.

It's more nails in the coffin of a 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 4:02 pm

"it sure seems strange that Fritz would report to Curry that Oswald was stopped coming down the stairs instead of inside the lunchroom, and it seems to me that Roy Truly was the mastermind behind this storey; in order to discredit both Baker's encounter with Oswald on the first floor, and also the encounter with the real shooter."

I don't think Truly really had leverage here. If Baker did stop someone on the third or fourth floor that Truly had vouched for, he's on the hook for accessory to murder or obstruction of justice if the person he said worked there actually didn't (even if mystery man wasn't the shooter he could have been an accomplice or a witness and now there's no employee records for the police to follow up on).

Llike Mark Twain said, history is a lie agreed upon.  If the official story was that Truly vouched for a non-employee on third floor who's now in the wind, then he's sure to be prosecuted. The second floor story was handed to him and he hung out to it like it was a parachute, which it kind of was. If the man he vouched for (albeit now on the 2nd floor) as an employee was Oswald, then he is blameless. Of course the FBI might have discovered later that the 3rd or 4th floor man was in fact a harmless publisher employee (that is, a TSBD the building employee but not a TSBD the company employee) but by then Truly's story was set in concrete.

Personally, I think that's a dry hole. The shooters either came down on the elevator and went out the back or since they likely had police or Secret Service credentials, just wandered around with the proverbial deerstalker cap and magnifying glass, looking for clues, to blend in with the rest of the coppers doing likewise.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:13 pm

beowulf wrote:Hasan, that John Armstrong collection is great. There really is enough evidence for 5 or 6 mutually inconsistent conspiracies buried in there. Surprised)

That's true - just as it is true of the volumes of evidence the WC collected.  

One thing I learned skimming through it, in Baker's September 23, 1964 affidavit for WC, he had this cross out--- "I saw a man standing in the lunchroom, holding a coke" (I've made the point that in most of the US South, coke is a generic term for soda, inclusive of Pepsi and Dr. Pepper).  He has also had this crossout I had never seen before--- "On the second or the third floor, where the lunchroom was located". (page 2)
http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/compoundobject/collection/po-arm/id/34249/rec/118

The point about "coke" being generic is one that has long been made - but it is obviously not a universal practice in the South because Buell referred to "Dr Pepper" not "coke". I'm not sure of the utility of this knowledge if it is not a universal (Southern) practice.

I suspect Baker really did stop someone on the third floor at the drinking fountain (as Major Ellis recounted to HSCA what Baker told him, your first link). And it probably really was a third floor employee (weren't there publishers on that floor?) because Dorothy Garner would have noticed someone coming down past the 4th floor before Truly and Baker came up.

Ellis was recalling this years later -- there is no mention of any drinking of water from a fountain by anyone else Baker spoke to on day one or the immediate days following.

The Stroud document and the Ernest interview regarding Garner are interesting, but I think she most likely saw Inspector Sawyer and the employee who escorted him up. According to his testimony, he took the elevator to the fifth floor (accompanied by an employee and a couple of cops) "and we went back to the storage area and looked around and didn't see anything." Trouble is that by his own words and description, he took the passenger elevator - which did not - even for an important police inspector on the hunt for a presidential assassin - ever go higher than the 4th floor. According to the Ernest interview, Garner said she had gone to the storage area for reasons unrecalled. 

In fact, Sawyer inadvertently confirms he was on the 4th later in his testimony:

Mr. BELIN. Was there anything other than a warehouse or storage area there? 
Mr. SAWYER. Well, to one side I could see an office over there with people in it. Some women that apparently were office workers. 


If Mrs Garner insists she saw Truly, that also is possible because he saw officers on the 4th on the way back down. If he saw others - then others could see him.

Mr. TRULY. Then we continued on down, and we saw officers on the fourth floor.

I don't recall that we stopped any more until we reached the first floor. But I do recall there was an officer on the fourth floor, by the time we got down that far.

An encounter with a third floor employee? These were all office workers. Back in the day, they all wore suits. I also don't recall any males claiming to have stayed up on the third floor - let alone any that matched Baker's description or any having a run-in with a gun-toting cop and Roy Truly. 

Here are all the employee statements.  http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?absPageId=171462 If there is someone in there who fits the bill, I will need to re-evaluate this entire scenario.

On the other hand, if Garner did see someone (whose initials were not LHO) pass through 4th floor or worse saw him confronted by Marrion Baker right in front of her, she'd surely get the "don't be a hero, just walk away" speech from the Feds and then never breathed a word of it.

Final point, in Baker's original Nov. 22 affidavit (same link as above, pg. 14) there's a crossout I can't decipher, replaced by allcaps words in "I SAW A man walking away..."
There's a second crossout, "I ???? called to the man", I'd wager Baker started to write "hollered" and replaced it with "called".


Last edited by greg parker on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 7:11 pm; edited 3 times in total

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:34 pm

beowulf wrote:"it sure seems strange that Fritz would report to Curry that Oswald was stopped coming down the stairs instead of inside the lunchroom, and it seems to me that Roy Truly was the mastermind behind this storey; in order to discredit both Baker's encounter with Oswald on the first floor, and also the encounter with the real shooter."

I don't think Truly really had leverage here. If Baker did stop someone on the third or fourth floor that Truly had vouched for, he's on the hook for accessory to murder or obstruction of justice if the person he said worked there actually didn't (even if mystery man wasn't the shooter he could have been an accomplice or a witness and now there's no employee records for the police to follow up on).

There are some things that are yet to be made public. You may or may not find it persuasive, but in any case... all in due course!

Llike Mark Twain said, history is a lie agreed upon.  If the official story was that Truly vouched for a non-employee on third floor who's now in the wind, then he's sure to be prosecuted. The second floor story was handed to him and he hung out to it like it was a parachute, which it kind of was. If the man he vouched for (albeit now on the 2nd floor) as an employee was Oswald, then he is blameless. Of course the FBI might have discovered later that the 3rd or 4th floor man was in fact a harmless publisher employee (that is, a TSBD the building employee but not a TSBD the company employee) but by then Truly's story was set in concrete.

Personally, I think that's a dry hole. The shooters either came down on the elevator and went out the back or since they likely had police or Secret Service credentials, just wandered around with the proverbial deerstalker cap and magnifying glass, looking for clues, to blend in with the rest of the coppers doing likewise.

May not be that crazy. According to Mrs Garner, it was pretty much bedlam:

  "It was total confusion," she said.  "The Dallas police, FBI, 
Secret Service were coming up the stairs, in the elevators, in all the 
offices.  The news media and workers and outsiders were going 
everywhere." 



_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Guest on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:40 pm

What timescales do you guys put on Luke Mooney being inside the TSBD? I know it's difficult to ascertain times with any degree of accuracy but Mooney claims he heard the shots and at full speed ran to the knoll, looked in the car park, saw the "negro porter" but within seconds was asked to help seal off the TSBD. He claims he put a civilian on the back gates to guard it, then got into the NorthWest elevator, got to the second floor before the power cut off then started up the stairs and he stopped on sixth floor. In his testimony he claims:

Mr. MOONEY - It was a push button affair the best I can remember. got hold of the controls and it worked. We started up and got to the second. I was going to let them off and go on up. And when we got there, the power undoubtedly cut off, because we had no more power on the elevator. So I looked around their office there, just a short second or two, and then I went up the staircase myself. And I met some other officers coming down, plainclothes, and I believe they were deputy sheriffs. They were coming down the staircase. But I kept going up. And how come I get off the sixth floor, I don't know yet. But, anyway, I stopped on six, and didn't even know what floor I was on.

Joseph Ball was, as was his usual practice, not interested in these "plainclothes...deputy sheriffs" who were on their way down the stairs so soon after the assassination. How did Mooney know they were Deputy Sheriffs and who were they?

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:43 pm

greg parker wrote:Great finds, Hasan! I think Sean Murphy may have found the second one before - but the other two are definitely new to me.

It's more nails in the coffin of a 2nd floor lunchroom encounter.

Thanks, Greg. The Baylor files are a treasure trove of information.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:45 pm

Joseph Ball was, as was his usual practice, not interested in these "plainclothes...deputy sheriffs" who were on their way down the stairs so soon after the assassination. How did Mooney know they were Deputy Sheriffs and who were they?

Could they have been ATF agents?

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Guest on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:49 pm

Whoever they were, Hasan, it appears they were in there quick to be coming down so soon. Not one question from Ball concerning them. If this was an honest investigation Joseph Ball would have been all over this like a rash.

I take it you are referring to the Frank Ellsworth revelations?

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 6:59 pm

I take it you are referring to the Frank Ellsworth revelations?

Yep, that's what I was referring to.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Tue 30 Jul 2013, 7:55 pm

Looks like Jim Di has joined the forum. Welcome Jim! cheers

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 5:57 am

Good point about the different dress code of white collar workers vs blue collar workers, something you don't see in our business casual world. If the men working for the publishers wore coat and tie to work, then the tan jacket man couldn't have been one of them.

"The point about "coke" being generic is one that has long been made - but it is obviously not a universal practice in the South because Buell referred to "Dr Pepper" not "coke". I'm not sure of the utility of this knowledge if it is not a universal (Southern) practice."

The utility of the knowledge is precisely because it was not universal (Texas was split between using coke/soda probably because Dr. Pepper is based there) so it created ambiguity. Remember too, Hoover intentionally assigned FBI agents far from their home states. Even where used as a generic term, "coke" would be replaced, when relevant, by a specific term like Dr. Pepper or Pepsi or Coca-Cola (or "Coke-Cola" as we say in Georgia). In his crossout, Baker has "coke" not Coke (as Fritz called it) or Coca Cola (as Hosty and Bookhout term it)
. If the truth was that Baker or Truly had volunteered to Fritz that Oswald was holding a coke (whether Coca Cola or Dr. Pepper) in front of the coke machine (i.e. Dr. Pepper machine) by the 1st floor backstairs, it made it easy for investigators desperate to place Oswald above ground floor to "fix that" so Oswald's in front of 2nd floor Coca Cola machine.

Whether this was willful or just bias is unclear (Baker & Truly knew the score, but were smart enough to keep their mouths shut). If Oswald told his interrogators he went upstairs to get change for a coke and drank it downstairs, Special Agent Hosty (from Missouri, a soda state) would interprete this as he bought a Coca Cola on the 2nd floor-- and of course Fritz famous for keeping his cases in his head (as ADA Alexander put it) probably just copied the FBI notes.
 

Its confusing, I think Holmes described what was going on as well as anyone.
"But he went downstairs, and as he went out the front, it seems as though he did have a coke with him, or he stopped at the coke machine, or somebody else was trying to get a coke, but there was a coke involved. He mentioned something about a coke."
 



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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 6:13 am

One more thing then I've got to get back to work. Its possible then, Mrs. Reid's story of seeing Oswald w/ a coke 2 minutes after shooting-- which contradicted Mrs. Hine's statement Reid came in with a group-- was invented simply to bolster the 2nd floor coke machine story invented for Baker & Truly (who was after all Reid's boss, besides, its not really lying to the cops when they tell you what to say) and assassination researchers have been chasing a ghost ever since.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 7:11 am

Thanks for the clarifications. Got it now.

Speaking of dress codes... this bit of testimony to the HSCA has always intrigued me...
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes. Well, this, gentleman came out to my place. Not Mr. Butler, somebody else. I do net recall his name. 
Mr. PURDY - Was his name Porter? 
Mr. McKEOWN - Yes, it damn sure was. Jack Porter. 
Mr. PURDY - Please explain the story. 
Mr. McKEOWN - Anyway, he told me that it was a very mysterious thing. He told me, he says, do you have any work clothes like khakis, khaki pants and things? I said well, I can get some. What is the occasion? He said we want you to go to the top floor of the Gulf Building in Houston. We want you to get off two floors before you get to the top and walk up and dress like a working person. So I did.

 I'm not saying that McKeown was the sniper. I'm not saying that Jack Porter was the mastermind. This was all shortly after Castro came to power.

I am saying that those are very specific instructions about what to wear, how many floors to go up in the elevator, how many to walk up...  and whatever those instructions were supposed to be about... one possibility is that they represent a blueprint for what happened inside the TSBD. 

If this had anything to do with any possible plot against Castro, or against someone in the US dealing with Castro (bearing in mind Castro was probably not yet regarded as "enemy no 1"), then elements of that plot may have been recycled for Dallas...

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 7:58 am

Very interesting, Greg.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 8:56 am

I've seen assassination references literature to "ATF agents" but the ATF wasn't creating until 1968. In 1963 the "Alcohol and Tobacco Tax Division" was part of the IRS (itself in the Treasury Dept)... I'm just not sure if in 1963 they'd be called Treasury agents, IRS agents or ATTD agents (or reading Richard downthread,AT&T agents).

edit: While on the topic of obscure federal law enforcement agencies, I find it odd that Postal Inspector HD Holmes was apparently an FBI informant. The Postal Inspection Service is a federal law enforcement agency, I've never heard of a federal agency recruiting an agent of another federal agency as an informant.  It sounds kind of shady, really. I can't imagine the Postmaster General (until the 1970s, a member of President's cabinet) would condone that if he knew.
 http://www.911jobforums.com/f58/us-postal-inspector-firearms-19666/#


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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:11 am

I put Luke Mooney entering the rear of the TSBD at 12:38/39. He came in with fellow deputy sheriffs Billy Joe Victory and Sam Webster, who took the stairs while Mooney took the elevator. He waited some moments while two unknown woman workers came running up and joined him at the elevator. And the power cut off once they reached the 2nd floor.

Mooney spent a few moments looking around in the 2nd-floor central office, then headed up the stairs. And he met a couple of ATF agents coming down. He testified that he called them "deputy sheriffs". They weren't among the 15 or so deputy sheriffs under Bill Decker's command. Mooney didn't know these guys. And we know 9 guys from the AT&T arrived at the TSBD by 12:40.

Now Victoria Adams ran into these same two AT&T agents only moments later. Because after a police-radio certified broadcast at 12:40, she went inside and tried the passenger elevator, but it wouldn't work. She went up to the 2nd-floor office and briefly listened to a radio with other employees, before walking down the hallway back to the freight elevator. Here she encountered "two men who were dressed in suit and hats".

So the passenger elevator was out at 12:40/41, and the freight elevator was out very near that time. Mooney only had 1-2 minutes of activity inside the TSBD before he too experienced the elevator power failure. So I put his arrival at 12:38/39.

There is a copy of that AT&T memorandum on the web somewhere and let me proceed to find it.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Guest on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 9:37 am

If you google "memo to Sorrels from Booth JFK" you should arrive at an old Lancer post of mine, in the topic "Re: Buell Wesley's Post-Assassination Sighting of LHO?". In post #52 of February 3, 2010, in Attachments #1 and #2 are my scans of this AT&T memo. Admittedly blurry, but so was the original. 

These Lancer links are totally funky, but this may work:

http://www.jfklancerforum.com/dc/dcboard.phpaz=show_mesg&forum=3&topic_id=85865&mesg_id=86006&page=8

Nope. Don't even bother. Try the Lancer search engine to get to that topic.

It's an important memo, because none of these 9 AT&T (ATF) agents filed after-action reports. Those could have included some juicy details about what was going on inside the TSBD from 12:40- 12:50.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by beowulf on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 2:40 pm

Good info Richard, thanks. You know that Powell (who was a special agent in the Army Counterintelligence Corps) really put his neck on the line, he  broke the law by acting like he was a law enforcement officer at a crime scene. The FBI could have arrested him if they wished... not that it was worth the trouble but the threat gave them a lot of leverage on what he'd say.  There's a 19th century law on the books that bars the Army from policing civilians, Powell did not have authority to carry firearm or arrest/search civilians (the two real "badges" of law enforcement).

http://www.southeastsun.com/home/article_c607c89a-ad40-5fd2-8c6e-6454be2e3787.html

 Edit: I was going off-topic so I just summarized my point in a paragraph.


Last edited by beowulf on Thu 01 Aug 2013, 12:15 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by greg parker on Wed 31 Jul 2013, 11:39 pm

 Edit: I was going off-topic so I just summarized my point in a paragraph.

No problem. It's related and you guys have provided some food for thought here. Can't believe I haven't seen these things brought out before. Important points.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Guest on Thu 01 Aug 2013, 8:08 am

beowolf,

This video, at 4:45- 4:48, shows Terrence Ford of WFAA and then Pierce Allman of WFAA entering the 6th floor. Small wonder that Oswald mistook them for Secret Service agents, and apparently Allman had showed Oswald his bifold ID verifying he was a newsman. Personally I think Oswald knew there were phony SS agents around and didn't know who these two characters (Allman & Ford) could be. Oswald said he didn't even read the ID.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tsR8PGx2ZE

I've done a lot of work on James Powell, and feel secure in having spotted him in the crowd on the street between the Dal-Tex and County Records Building, i.e. the upper part of Elm Street. I used to feel like you, that he may have been the one who showed ID to Oswald on the steps, but the evidence is solid that Allman did.

You might look at "Is This James Powell?" on the Lancer search engine sometime. I do believe he was on assignment in Dealey Plaza. I do not believe that he ran to the parking lot with a bunch of deputy sheriffs, as he claimed. I strongly suspect that he diverted a policeman on the curb in front of the Depository, with a story about having his wallet stolen- as narrated by Wesley Frazier in Hour 2 of his HSCA transcript- that's in "This May Shock and Amaze Ya" on page 9 of the JFK section in this website, on page 2 of that topic.

Powell went into the Depository a 2nd time, in order to make another phone call to his office, the HQ of the 112th. But the building got sealed in the meantime by police. He was trapped inside until Special Service Bureau Lt. Jack Revill gave him a lift back to his Field St. headquarters, about 7 blocks away. He was only 24 at the time. And in his zeal to be a good doobie, he almost exposed the Army Intelligence complicity in the plot.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by Hasan Yusuf on Thu 01 Aug 2013, 8:14 am

Interesting thoughts there about Powell, Richard. I too don't believe he was the man who confronted Joe Marshall Smith. However, as I wrote on my blog, I believe Powell was the man Howard Brennan mistook for a Secret Service agent. I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts on Powell.

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Re: Baker's HSCA interview Shows He was Given His Later Story

Post by James DiEugenio on Thu 01 Aug 2013, 11:48 am

Fascinating thread.  I have always suspected that Baker was made to backtrack on his initial affidavit.  And man, I really wish Spence had that affidavit at that aphony London trial.  The thing that always bugged me was that Oswald was right there in front of him when he made it out.  And it looks like Johnson caught it and began to rewrite history.  Very nice find with Ellis and Ivon Hasan.

BTW, Dulles was very much aware of that affidavit also.  He and Belin went off the record four times with Baker.

I also have also found it so interesting as to what the heck Powell was doing there.  I mean, what was his excuse?  Just watching the motorcade?  And then he gets locked inside!

What do you think he was doing there Richard?

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