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Carlos Bringuier testimony

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Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by Guest on Wed 05 Mar 2014, 6:28 am

Mr. BRINGUIER. You see, that is a hard question, because here in the city you have a lot of persons. There are some who are pro-Castro, there are many who are anti-Castro. Even among the Cubans you could have some Castro agents here in the city and you could not have control of everybody.
But there is something else: The owner of the Havana Bar--the Havana Bar is located in 117 Decatur Street, just two door or three door from my store--the owner of the Havana Bar is a Cuban, and he and one of the employees over there, gave the information to me after Kennedy's assassination--not before that Oswald went to the Havana Bar one time. He asked for some lemonade. He was with one Mexican at that moment, and when Oswald was drinking the lemonade, he start to say that, sure, the owner of that place had to be a Cuban capitalistic, and that he argue about the price of the lemonade. He was telling that that was too much for a lemonade, and he feel bad at that moment, Oswald feel bad at that moment--he had some vomits and he went out to the sidewalk to vomit outside on the sidewalk. These persons here from the Havana Bar told me that the guy, the Mexican, who was with Oswald, was the same one that one time the FBI told them that if they will see him, call them immediately because that was a pro-Communist. I remember that was between August 15 and August 30 was that period of time. I could not locate that because I start to find out all these things after the Kennedy assassination, not before, because before I did not found any connection. They did not told nothing of this before to me. Between the 15th and the 30th the brother of the owner of the Havana Bar came to my store asking me to call the FBI, because he already saw one automobile passing by the street with two Mexicans, one of them the one who had been with Oswald in the bar, and he told me that the FBI, one agent from the FBI, had been in the bar and told them that if they will see those two guy to call them. This person, the brother of the owner of the bar, he gave to me at that moment the number of the plate of the automobile, but he didn't get from what State. I called the FBI, because this person don"t know to speak English. That was the reason why he came to me. I talked to the person in the FBI. I explained what was going on, but looked like thi s person on the telephone didn't know nothing about that matter and he took the--I believe that he took the notes of what I was telling to him, and that was all.

Orly?

To your knowledge, has anyone ever followed up on this?

Do we know the name of the Mexican in the bar that the FBI was looking for?

???

Guest
Guest


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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by Guest on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 9:57 am

I've just re-read the testimony from the people around this issue, and it seems the short answer is "no".

The Warren Commission interviews are pretty astounding though. You have two people who were present at the scene, the bartender and the owner of the bar -

Let me see if the system will let me post links yet:

Orest Pena: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/pena_o.htm

Ruperto Pena: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/pena_r.htm

Evaristo Rodriguez: http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/rodrigue.htm

Evaristo Rodriguez is the bartender, he describes the Mexican as 5'8 and 155 lbs or so, somewhat short and stocky looking, with very hairy arms. And he's not really sure if it was a Mexican, it might have been a Cuban he says... but there is an interesting break in his testimony, an "off the record" discussion that happens exactly during Evaristo's recall of the physical description of the man, when he's talking about the hairline...

Orest Pena is the bar owner. He was also present, but he must have been "in back" or something, we don't know exactly (he just says somewhere "away from there" where the discussion occurred) - but Evaristo the bartender asked him how much to charge Oswald for the lemonade. He saw the Mexican too, but says he was actually Cuban, although it's clearly a hunch on his part. But note the Commission never asked Orest for a physical description of the man.

And Ruperto Pena the brother mainly enters this equation peripherally as someone who confirms the behavior of his brother Orest, and Evaristo, reporting these types of people and activities to the FBI. All three of them claim they were writing down license plate numbers and giving them to Bringuier (who would then report them to the FBI, and presumably to DRE intelligence or some such thing) or directly reporting them to the FBI.

The interesting thing about these testimonies is there are "breaks" in them, there seem to be some discussions that the Warren Commission doesn't want to have, and some discussions that the witnesses don't want to have. There's some amount of evasiveness in all these three testimonies, for instance there seems to be some issue about the date of Orest's trip to Puerto Rico.

But the combined testimony makes it pretty clear that the FBI knows about the Mexican. (I'm calling him "the Mexican", just to identify him - I have no way of knowing who or what he actually is).

So, the FBI should have some report of this somewhere, is there one?

Guest
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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by Guest on Thu 06 Mar 2014, 1:35 pm

Yeah, well, so it seems there isn't one (an FBI report "before the fact").

In fact, the FBI claims they never got any phone call from Bringuier or anyone else, about two communist Mexicans.

If you look up "Evaristo Rodriguez" in the national archives (or on google), you'll see an FBI interview that occurred after the Warren Commission depositions. It includes some "adjustments" to the testimony of Carlos Bringuier (although his story basically stays the same).

However it gives no indication that the FBI was in any way or at any time interested in "the Mexican". Unless this appears in someone else's file someplace? A different file, maybe?

Guest
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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by Guest on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 8:04 am

'Kay, well, there seems to a super-classified box of records in NARA's "Postponed in Full" category, that contains information related to Bringuier and Orest Pena. Here it is:


AGENCY INFORMATION

             AGENCY : HSCA
      RECORD NUMBER : 180-10097-10491
     RECORDS SERIES : NUMBERED FILES
 AGENCY FILE NUMBER : 014118

DOCUMENT INFORMATION

         ORIGINATOR : HSCA
               FROM : PENA, OREST
                 TO : [No To]
              TITLE : [No Title]
               DATE : 01/20/1978
              PAGES : 10
      DOCUMENT TYPE : SUMMARY
           SUBJECTS : PENA, ORST; FBI; NEW ORLEANS; OSWALD, LEE, POST
                      RUSSIAN PERIOD, POLITICAL AND SUBVERSIVE; ACTIVITIES;
                      FERRIE, DAVID; BRINGUIER, CARLOS
     CLASSIFICATION : UNCLASSIFIED
       RESTRICTIONS : REFERRED
     CURRENT STATUS : POSTPONED IN FULL
DATE OF LAST REVIEW : 08/08/1993
           COMMENTS : Tabbed 251-3. Box 251.

http://jfkcountercoup2.blogspot.com/2012/11/postponed-in-full.html (about a third of the way down the page)

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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by capone81 on Fri 07 Mar 2014, 3:15 pm

Sylvia Odio described one of the visitors to her home with Oswald as Mexican-looking

capone81

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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

Post by Guest on Wed 12 Mar 2014, 4:08 pm

Carlos Bringuier wasn't "just" DRE. He wasn't "just" another Cuban student trying to recruit more Cuban students.

Carlos Bringuier was one of the original field agents for Operation 40.

He was in there with Carriles, Bosch, Veciana, Masferrer, Del Valle and all the rest. He had training as a case officer. (What, another spy in a bookstore?)  Go for it!

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Re: Carlos Bringuier testimony

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