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Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:00 pm

No, that was really it Greg; I only meant to say 2 things there:

1. I don't want to say anything (more, ever again) that would lead to utter silence.

2. The hats are different.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:37 pm

dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:No, that was really it Greg; I only meant to say 2 things there:

1. I don't want to say anything (more, ever again) that would lead to utter silence.

2. The hats are different.
Dan, yes. I'd have to agree: the hats are different. It would have helped enormously if Lee had been wearing a black hat and Harvey a white one so we can tell the good from the bad apple.

I think sometimes too much can be read into a non-response. Not always. But sometimes. Poor old Bob is probably a prime example of someone who could never read too much into it. 

I for one, didn't deliberately ignore your past posts in this thread. 

You were a bit ahead of the curve. It's difficult when someone is one or two steps ahead. Either you're left scratching your head until you catch up, or you dive in and risk sounding like an utter idiot in formulating a reply which may or may not actually be responsive, let alone comprehensible. 

FFS Dan. What can I say? We all love ya, mate (but don't get me wrong - not in a deer sort of way... )

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:44 pm

Paul Klein wrote:
greg parker wrote:
Overview of Oswald Photos 

A UPI story about Oswald's "defection" ran in the Fort Worth Star
Telegram (285), accompanied by a photo that John Armstrong says "appears
to be Lee Oswald, recognizable to residents of Fort Worth (White #26).
Harvey Oswald's photograph did not appear in Fort Worth newspapers in
1959 -- no one would have recognized him as 'Lee Oswald" (286).

The article ran on November 1, 1959, the day after Oswald appeared at the
American Embassy in Moscow and had his confrontation with Richard Snyder.
The photograph (White #26) may have originated with UPI. The author
believes that this is actually a retouched and greatly (but
unintentionally) distorted version of the outdoors photograph taken by
George Wilkins at Atsugi (White #25), the original of which is of poor
quality. This photograph bears virtually no resemblance to either Lee or
Harvey Oswald. Jack White has noted the similarity to #25, but does not
suggest it was the basis for #26. Such details as the hairline and eyes
are compelling evidence that George Wilkins' photo fell into the hands of
a retouch artist with inexplicably poor eyesight or abilities or both. If
in a charitable mood, one can see how the artist misinterpreted shadows
in the photo to make the AP Oswald's nose far too large, but the AP
Oswald's chin borders on the inhuman, and relates in no way to the
Wilkins photo. The shape of Oswald's head is further distorted by an
undisguised cropping of the background, probably to remove the edge of
the hut seen behind Oswald in the Wilkins photo. This photograph should
be disregarded as a true representation of Lee Harvey Oswald; however, no
sinister overtones need be attached to its alteration. Retouching is the
rule, not the exception, in print media. This is in all probability is an
unbelievably incompetent example; there is no apparent purpose served by
the severe distortion of the subject's appearance; in fact, it could only
raise suspicions among those who knew him.

http://www.acorn.net/jfkplace/03/JA/DR/.o-dr.html
What a bunch of fucking bullshit. This photo here:


has been deliberately inserted over the original. Why didn't the Star Telegram originally use the  touch upped photo?
This is the third time I started to respond to this; the 1st time was when I made my earlier posts and realized I didn't even know how to make my point about the long paragraph clear. The second time I just erased after realizing what the whole issue is about as I posed my own questions about it. Derrr

So just to make completely sure I'm not totally confused, the defection article is what we need to find (as it will prove whether the above image is or isn't in that original article), and as of now we can't find that original article? And the long paragraph where Armstrong talks about said shitty image is in reference to that article -- in other words, this article with shitty image is in Armstrong's book (and/or on website) and that's the ONLY place it appears outside of Armstrong's evidence-material (for lack of a better word)? If that's the case, then I'm completely with Paul's assessment here. That whole long paragraph is a piece of rationalizing about something that is fraudulently presented (as a real thing, when it's OBVIOUSLY not). It's damned near theological in that respect.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:50 pm

Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Having read your response, Greg, see my last post -- I'M the one BEHIND the curve because it took me until about a half hour ago to figure out exactly what you guys were talking about here. (and that's assuming I HAVE got it right this time)

On the "silence" issue, that was finding out yesterday that there'd been NO activity about 6 hours after I'd made my early morning postings ...... and thus, the "farted in church" observation.

If nothing else, we get good laughs here   Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

And now, I need to work through more of my issues with my Drago blocks
good day all

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:54 pm

the defection article is what we need to find (as it will prove whether the above image is or isn't in that original article), and as of now we can't find that original article? 
Yep. That's about where it stands. I have just found some more on this from one of Armstrong's disciples. I'll post after dinner.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 5:57 pm

dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Having read your response, Greg, see my last post -- I'M the one BEHIND the curve because it took me until about a half hour ago to figure out exactly what you guys were talking about here. (and that's assuming I HAVE got it right this time)

On the "silence" issue, that was finding out yesterday that there'd been NO activity about 6 hours after I'd made my early morning postings ...... and thus, the "farted in church" observation.

If nothing else, we get good laughs here   Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

And now, I need to work through more of my issues with my Drago blocks
good day all
Well... in the last 20 hours, you may have been passed on the expressway... but 20 hours ago... you were indeed, the man! 

Here's a pirate for no particular reason.  pirat

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 6:45 pm

dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy  Having read your response, Greg, see my last post -- I'M the one BEHIND the curve because it took me until about a half hour ago to figure out exactly what you guys were talking about here. (and that's assuming I HAVE got it right this time)

On the "silence" issue, that was finding out yesterday that there'd been NO activity about 6 hours after I'd made my early morning postings ...... and thus, the "farted in church" observation.

If nothing else, we get good laughs here   Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

And now, I need to work through more of my issues with my Drago blocks
good day all

Those bastard timezones and having to go to work bring nothing but problems.  I'm going to start a petition to eradicate both.

No timezones and no work.  Only by destroying these two timewasting concepts will we be able to all congregate here at the same time.

Get ready for dark days and blazing nights, Parker.  But on the plus side - you won't be very tired because - NO WORK!  Hoorah!!

 cheers

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 7:35 pm

No work... ha... I've been at at since 5:30 am... now I have to delay the post I promised because I forgot I have to disassemble the boys beds and assemble their new ones.  I've already preemptively torn up and tossed the instructions. I think the boys will be couching it tonight.

I'll be out in the doghouse.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 8:20 pm

greg parker wrote:No work... ha... I've been at at since 5:30 am... now I have to delay the post I promised because I forgot I have to disassemble the boys beds and assemble their new ones.  I've already preemptively torn up and tossed the instructions. I think the boys will be couching it tonight.

I'll be out in the doghouse.

I don't know what you're talking about. It's 11:19am.  Plenty of time, intructions or no instructions.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 10:58 pm

Shit. I forgot we abolished time zones.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
Admin

Posts : 3443
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 11:19 pm

LEE Oswald's Photograph (Not HARVEY) in the FWS-T

In 1959 live interviews of people involved in the current events, such
as Oswald's "defection," were rare.  Harvey may have successfully
replaced Lee and "defected" to Russia, but there were still risks that
the "defector's" identity would be questioned by people who lived in
Fort Worth who knew the real Lee Oswald up to age 12.  This problem
was solved, or at least in Fort Worth, when a photograph of LEE Oswald
(not Harvey) was published in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram on November
1, 1959.

The S-T published a front page article titled, "Brother's Turn to Reds
Puzzles Fort Worth Man."  On page 2 there is a photograph of a husky
young man with a thick neck and a wide nose who appears to be wearing
a Marine uniform-LEE Oswald.  Any resident of Fort Worth who saw this
photograph and knew the real Lee Oswald would probably recognize him.
The author located a copy of LEE Oswald's photo in the archives of the
FWS-T.  There was no notation as to the origin or source of this photo,
yet it was published in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram only one day after
Oswald's "defection."

When the author was asked for a copy of the photo, he was told to get
in touch with Wide World Photos, Rockefeller Plaza, New York City.  He
wrote a letter and asked WWP if they knew the source of the photo.
They responded and said they did not know the source of the photo. SO,
how did the Fort Worth Star-Telegram get this photo only one day after
Oswald's "defection?"


                  Origin Of The FWS-T Photo

The first reporter who attempted to interview Oswald in Moscow was Abe
Goldberg, early in the afternoon of Oct. 31, shortly after Oswald left
the U.S. Embassy.  Goldberg told the FBI that he did not take a
photograph of Oswald.  Robert Korengold spoke briefly with Oswald at
the door to his room at the Hotel Metropole, but took no photographs.
Aline Mosby was the first person to actually interview Oswald in mid-
afternoon of Oct. 31, but there is no indication from her notes or
testimony that she tok a photograph of Oswald.  Priscilla Johnson was
the 2nd person to interview Oswald, but not until November 15, and
there was no indication she took a photograph of Oswald.

The photo of LEE Oswald that appeared in the Fort Worth Star-Telegram
on November 1, 1959 appeared again in the November 26th issue of the
Evening Star in Washington  D.C.  This time the photo was credited to
the the Associated Press (AP), yet they claim to have no record of
it's origin.  The origin of this photo, published within 24 hours of
Aline Mosby's interview with Oswald in Moscow remains unknown.  (Once
again information about Oswald, in this case a photo, was given to the
media by an unidentified source only one day after his "defection."
The most LIKELY souce was a CIA media asset.

Harvey and Lee 269-73

CJ 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/alt.conspiracy.jfk/ZOTTmk7IObQ/SYiR3ltZEGwJ
The Star Telegram reporter got the Mosby story off the wire and went looking for Robert. He found him and interviewed him. Robert seems the most likely source - however, the photo itself appears to be the one of Robert shown earlier (damnit, I've forgotten the designations already!) - just as brother John indicated when shown the Life copy. 

I have found no previous questioning of the ST photo until the White/Armstrong team pounces. This in itself is pretty amazing given it is so obviously fake. Once again - all evidence so far points to the fakers being the discoverers.   
 
Note that the google group post goes back to ignoring the blatant retouching and is arguing that the people of FW would recognize him as LHO!

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by greg parker on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 11:35 pm

Just as an addendum to the last post - another FW paper also tracked Robert down and interviewed him. They showed a photo of Robert - correctly labelled as Robert. 
http://cdm16084.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm/singleitem/collection/p16084coll6/id/28/rec/3
This shows he was indeed the source of some photos for the press at the time of the defection.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

greg parker
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Wed 09 Jul 2014, 11:59 pm

Hello Hello wrote:
dwdunn(akaDan) wrote:On the "silence" issue, that was finding out yesterday that there'd been NO activity about 6 hours after I'd made my early morning postings ...... and thus, the "farted in church" observation.

If nothing else, we get good laughs here   Very Happy  Very Happy  Very Happy 

Those bastard timezones and having to go to work bring nothing but problems.  I'm going to start a petition to eradicate both.

No timezones and no work.  Only by destroying these two timewasting concepts will we be able to all congregate here at the same time.

Get ready for dark days and blazing nights, Parker.  But on the plus side - you won't be very tired because - NO WORK!  Hoorah!!

 cheers

Lee,

I second your notion about abolishing the timezones. I have never been a fan of them and USED TO live in a state which ignored them as well. Talk to Stan, he lives there now in the relatively calm disencumbrance of that insanity.

Abolishing work would certainly help us all getting together at one time and that would be a great boon. Camp out in front of the computer, armed with two cases of Red Bull and I would be ready to pull an "all-weeker".

And Dan,

I know about the feeling of "farted in the church". I get that a lot, too. But the echoes die and the smell goes away.

Keep posting.

I too searched for the article in the Star-Telegram. Tried two search engines (Yahoo & Google) trying each line or phrase in what I could see of the article (with quote marks) and got a big goose-egg. There seems to be nothing on the internet, surprisingly.

One place had the photo reproduced and indicated it had been showed to Robert Oswald (maybe by the WC) and he claimed it wasn't Lee.

Of course, I still have not looked through the bowels of the MFF or the wonderfully un-indexed Oswald photo collection Lee turned us on to.

****************************************

I'm at work and it takes a while to post these things. And I see Greg has gotten something new before me, making a lot of my info useless.

Dan did start the process in cataloging the photos and Greg and I both seem to have a problem remembering which is which. Perhaps we need to come up with a better system rather than just a numerical assignment. Like ST-1 (for orig phoo) ST-1A for the faked one. Something like that, maybe?

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:01 am

Lee,

When can we start the "abolish work" scenario?

Greg has posted twice since I started my response. This job is getting in the way of me getting any "real" work done!!

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:17 am

terlin wrote:Lee,

When can we start the "abolish work" scenario?

Greg has posted twice since I started my response. This job is getting in the way of me getting any "real" work done!!

I've already handed my notice in, and assured my colleagues that by 4pm tomorrow they won't have to work either.  The revolution is on its way.

There is the question of money, which I should have thought about abolishing prior to the abolition of work but I'm sure there are workarounds.


Last edited by Hello Hello on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:33 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 12:37 am

Hello Hello wrote:
terlin wrote:Lee,

When can we start the "abolish work" scenario?

Greg has posted twice since I started my response. This job is getting in the way of me getting any "real" work done!!

I've already handed my notice in, and assured my colleagues that by 4pm tomorrow they won't have to work either.  The revolution is on its way.

There is the question of money, which I should have thought about abolshing prior to the abolition of work but I'm sure there are workarounds.

Fantastic work, Lee!!

Thinking about the money might have been a good idea beforehand but we're intelligent enough to think of something, I am certain.
Now if we can get Stan busy on the workarounds...

(at least it should be something FUN)

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 1:57 am

greg parker wrote:

To try to organize these, using my Drago blocks, I put together a draft legend that shows thumbnails of the images we want to keep straight, along with a ID and a description of the image. The format would look something like this:



If we go with this approach, we simply have to 1) ensure we include all of the images we want, 2) agree on an ID (e.g., LHO-1, etc.), and 3) make sure the description is correct. If you like this, I'll build it out, circulate for comments/revisions, then post the final in a new "Legend" thread in the Harvey & Lee section. That way it will be easily accessible for your Harvey & Lee needs. It can always be revised as well. Comments please.

Also, on the image above, where did the image on the right come from? If it came from Armstrong's website, I didn't see it. This may have been addressed, but is the crop image on the left supposed to have come from the image on the right? They look different to me. (I don't mean to have anyone go back over ground that's already covered but my head's a bit foggy this morning.)

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by dwdunn(akaDan) on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:27 am

Looks great to me Stan Nice work. On your question I'm gonna guess it's a 2nd Atsugi photo ORIGINALLY. Beyond that who the hell knows

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 2:59 am


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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:31 am

Damn, just when you think you've seen just about every visual variation possible with this guy. The dark hollow eyes, the flat right side of his head...looks like something out of a Lon Chaney, Boris Karloff flick.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:38 am

Hello Hello wrote:

Lee,

I'm impressed. Where did you find the damned thing!?!!

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:42 am

Not to distract from the serious discussion at hand (and it is getting really interesting!!) I came across another Harvey image but I don't know if it will help much.

It was from an old movie...

Jimmy Stewart starred as Lee - although his cover name was Elwood P. Dowd, I believe, or Lawrence Crafard or something.

Harvey is being played by some guy in a bunny suit.



The guys over at H&L assure me this photo has not been faked or retouched in any way.

Sounds good enough for me.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:49 am

terlin wrote:
Hello Hello wrote:

Lee,

I'm impressed. Where did you find the damned thing!?!!

It was in John Armstrong's files at Baylor.

I'll link to all of his folders once I've had dinner, Terry.

Guest
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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Guest on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:55 am

Stan Dane wrote:
greg parker wrote:

To try to organize these, using my Drago blocks, I put together a draft legend that shows thumbnails of the images we want to keep straight, along with a ID and a description of the image. The format would look something like this:



If we go with this approach, we simply have to 1) ensure we include all of the images we want, 2) agree on an ID (e.g., LHO-1, etc.), and 3) make sure the description is correct. If you like this, I'll build it out, circulate for comments/revisions, then post the final in a new "Legend" thread in the Harvey & Lee section. That way it will be easily accessible for your Harvey & Lee needs. It can always be revised as well. Comments please.

Also, on the image above, where did the image on the right come from? If it came from Armstrong's website, I didn't see it. This may have been addressed, but is the crop image on the left supposed to have come from the image on the right? They look different to me. (I don't mean to have anyone go back over ground that's already covered but my head's a bit foggy this morning.)

Looks good and works for me, Stan.

We may want to include the version I posted today as LHO-1 and the rest move down a digit numerically.

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

Post by Terry W. Martin on Thu 10 Jul 2014, 3:57 am

Hello Hello wrote:

It was in John Armstrong's files at Baylor.

I'll link to all of his folders once I've had dinner, Terry.

Thanks!!

Who'd have thought to look there, huh?

Enkoy your dinner, soldier, you've earned it!

Terry W. Martin

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Re: Harvey, Lee... and Ozzie...

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