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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:30 pm

Vinny
 
Is that a portrait of Frazier on the wall?
 
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:31 pm

Barto

Yes behind that philanderer..........
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Stan Dane on Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:33 pm

Thread rebuild complete!
 
You may now resume regularly scheduled posting!

Thanks, Stan
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by barto on Thu 22 Sep 2016, 2:07 am

NYT NOv 23rd


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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 14 Oct 2016, 6:44 pm

Other than having to click on the article to read it , thx Bart.

" ...Behind that philanderer" haha gift from "50th Lips Sealed Society Luncheon"
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Vinny on Sat 15 Oct 2016, 7:42 pm

That guy is Jim Leavelle.The woman is former first lady Laura Bush. This photo was taken at some exhibition in Dallas earlier this year.  Wonder what they are smiling about.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 17 Oct 2016, 6:11 am

http://ochelli.com/podcasts/10142016-friday-rob-clark-the-lone-gunman-himself/

Thanks Barto.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by barto on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 5:16 am









Read esp the last page with Fritz wanting to have "busted" Oswald if only Hosty was not there......
This is a transcript of a Garrison Conference among his team.
Frazier is discussed quite a bit as well.

Found by Denis Morissette.

Nice and just a another confirmation as to how "this legend" Will Fritz did his thing. Just like he wanted to wack Frazier while questioning him.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Greg Martin on Sat 19 Nov 2016, 8:38 am

Now isn't that just telling

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by alan on Sat 17 Dec 2016, 11:02 pm

I am a big believer that there was a shoot to miss plot that was manipulated. The crap rifle, the crap position of the sniper's nest etc makes sense. Also to create an excuse to invade Cuba only required an assassination attempt by a Castro-linked (or someone who could be made to look like one) person, not a successful assassination.   I call it the 'shoot to miss' model. As per that podcast posted above, the really wild shots could have been the shots designed to miss.

Another thought is this would have meant that whoever as to be framed for this was going to be framed not for murder but for an attempt or even what could have been spun as a protest gesture.  Probably the simplest scenario IMO is that in a shoot to miss plan the gunman was not meant to be caught and the framing would have been restricted to Patsy accomplices - prob LHO and/or Molina.

That of course never happened and I suspect it was either hijacked inside by CIA/military intel or perhaps it was an elaborate framing plan from the get-go where one team though they were just helping a shoot to miss but were manipulated into patsies for an assassination.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 12:38 am

Welcome to the forum Alan. I've heard your theory being bandied about before and while I won't go as far as disregard it outright, I will say that it would be impossible to prove. I take your point but at the end of the day Oswald was left holding the bag and probably realised as much. I do agree with you that he may not have been the only patsy that day but let's not forget he managed to get away quite easily. I don't think he was killed to shut him up about any plot but simply because he had an alibi. By that stage he was the only suspect. I'm not sure if you are one of those who believe Oswald was somehow implicated in your assertion but I believe he played no part. His business at the TSBD was probably as an informer maybe to look into Molina but that's just a guess. A stunt to shoot and miss that took a sinister turn is less likely than an cold blooded shooter/ shooters. The invasion of Cuba that you argue is made even more possible by murdering the President and we know that didn't happen.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by greg parker on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 9:57 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:Welcome to the forum Alan. I've heard your theory being bandied about before and while I won't go as far as disregard it outright, I will say that it would be impossible to prove. I take your point but at the end of the day Oswald was left holding the bag and probably realised as much. I do agree with you that he may not have been the only patsy that day but let's not forget he managed to get away quite easily. I don't think he was killed to shut him up about any plot but simply because he had an alibi. By that stage he was the only suspect. I'm not sure if you are one of those who believe Oswald was somehow implicated in your assertion but I believe he played no part. His business at the TSBD was probably as an informer maybe to look into Molina but that's just a guess. A stunt to shoot and miss that took a sinister turn is less likely than an cold blooded shooter/ shooters. The invasion of Cuba that you argue is made even more possible by murdering the President and we know that didn't happen.
I have considered it in the past as well - mainly on the basis of "well, if the Walker attempt was a phony attempt..." and also the shocked look when he learns JFK is dead.

But as you say, impossible to prove. I'd go one step further and suggest it's also extremely difficult to muster any evidence for it at all, except the two points I made - neither of which are proven facts themselves, with the latter being mere assumption.  And I have actually looked for something - anything that might support it, including if civil defense authorities ever carried out simulated attacks. I even looked at how it might fit into Northwoods - but there was no plan within Northwoods which included simulated attacks on US officials.

Bottom line: as speculation goes, it beats the hell out of a lot of other speculation about what happened. But speculation isn't going to get the case reopened. That said, the possibility could be noted in a book or essay without making it a central thesis or article of faith.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by alan on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 11:16 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:Welcome to the forum Alan. I've heard your theory being bandied about before and while I won't go as far as disregard it outright, I will say that it would be impossible to prove. I take your point but at the end of the day Oswald was left holding the bag and probably realised as much. I do agree with you that he may not have been the only patsy that day but let's not forget he managed to get away quite easily. I don't think he was killed to shut him up about any plot but simply because he had an alibi. By that stage he was the only suspect. I'm not sure if you are one of those who believe Oswald was somehow implicated in your assertion but I believe he played no part. His business at the TSBD was probably as an informer maybe to look into Molina but that's just a guess. A stunt to shoot and miss that took a sinister turn is less likely than an cold blooded shooter/ shooters. The invasion of Cuba that you argue is made even more possible by murdering the President and we know that didn't happen.
yes certainly its purely speculation.  However, wrong or right,  a shooter that was a crap shot, a crappy rifle, a crap sight on the rifle, a crap awkward position in the window, a crap line of sight etc would have made a very nice set up for a shoot to miss scenario.  Would it have been beyond the resources of the CIA etc to place a decent rifle with a decent site at a better nest position within the TSBD?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Sun 18 Dec 2016, 11:41 am

alan wrote:
Paul Francisco Paso wrote:Welcome to the forum Alan. I've heard your theory being bandied about before and while I won't go as far as disregard it outright, I will say that it would be impossible to prove. I take your point but at the end of the day Oswald was left holding the bag and probably realised as much. I do agree with you that he may not have been the only patsy that day but let's not forget he managed to get away quite easily. I don't think he was killed to shut him up about any plot but simply because he had an alibi. By that stage he was the only suspect. I'm not sure if you are one of those who believe Oswald was somehow implicated in your assertion but I believe he played no part. His business at the TSBD was probably as an informer maybe to look into Molina but that's just a guess. A stunt to shoot and miss that took a sinister turn is less likely than an cold blooded shooter/ shooters. The invasion of Cuba that you argue is made even more possible by murdering the President and we know that didn't happen.
yes certainly its purely speculation.  However, wrong or right,  a shooter that was a crap shot, a crappy rifle, a crap sight on the rifle, a crap awkward position in the window, a crap line of sight etc would have made a very nice set up for a shoot to miss scenario.  Would it have been beyond the resources of the CIA etc to place a decent rifle with a decent site at a better nest position within the TSBD?
Yes quite possible, Alan but the end game was that the crap shot, crap rifle and sight and awkwardness led to the arrest and incrimination of LHO for murder and nothing else. I don't believe IMO that any shots were fired from the TSBD. There is a thread here by Ed Ledoux that argues that strongly and I'm of the same opinion. I think the shots came from somewhere else maybe the Dalyex building. Your hypothesis can easily be said it was part of the set up to frame Oswald without a shot being fired yet aloned missed. I know that the below window guys claimed they heard shots and shells fall from the top of them but after reading their testimony it sounds like a crock. IMO that was simply part of the frame up leaving the weapon  shells behind to divert attention from the better position the shooters struck from. Remember Dougherty only heard one shot while on the 5th and he kept working. That rifle and shells were put there to be found so the investigation could begin and end from there.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by alan on Mon 19 Dec 2016, 1:39 pm

Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by greg parker on Mon 19 Dec 2016, 2:07 pm

alan wrote:Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
Why risk being a puppeteer? Someone might notice you pulling the strings. Much easier to have an array of potential patsies to choose from and pin it on your main one if possible. If that doesn't hold, move on the next on the list.

No shortage of potential patsies in that building and with some effort, they did nail it on the main one.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Mon 19 Dec 2016, 7:53 pm

alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by alan on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 6:09 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:
alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
The very existence of Prayer Man images shows the risk involved in relying on intimidation, killing and alteration of the statements of witnesses etc.  It can come go tits up if non-witness hard evidence like Prayer Man images emerge.  It was an obvious risk when you consider how many cameras might be flashing at a slow turn like that and it may be impossible to control a situation like that with a large moving crowd involved.  Dont get me wrong.   I do believe PM is LHO.  I just find it hard to believe they planned from the beginning to frame LHO relying only on intimidation and murder and therefore didnt give a damn if he was out front standing in front of loads of cameras.  And if I am wrong and that is exactly what they did then it certainly doesnt have the feel of an intelligence operation masterpiece and therefore might have implications on just who organised the framing (Keystone Cops?).  

I almost wonder sometimes why they just didnt leave it at 'the gunman got away' but planted evidence to implicate Cuba or whatever group they wanted to frame rather than introduce the huge complication of a live patsy.  

Another thing that has been speculated is something went wrong and Oswald was meant to die in the building. I certainly can believe that. However, if he was meant to be rubbed out in the building then LHO's location and movements during and just after the assassination made that impossible to do without it looking blatant.  I even wonder if LHO positioning himself at the door and not going deep into the bowls of the building afterwards is indicative that he twigged to the possibility he might be a Patsy and might be rubbed out if he gave an opportunity for that to happen.  His leaving of the building may been a similar self preservation move by LHO as did his behavour in the Cinema.  IMO his behavour in the cinema shows he knew he was a patsy already then and I suspect he knew it the minute he knew JFK had been killed.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 8:09 am

alan wrote:
Paul Francisco Paso wrote:
alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
The very existence of Prayer Man images shows the risk involved in relying on intimidation, killing and alteration of the statements of witnesses etc.  It can come go tits up if non-witness hard evidence like Prayer Man images emerge.  It was an obvious risk when you consider how many cameras might be flashing at a slow turn like that and it may be impossible to control a situation like that with a large moving crowd involved.  Dont get me wrong.   I do believe PM is LHO.  I just find it hard to believe they planned from the beginning to frame LHO relying only on intimidation and murder and therefore didnt give a damn if he was out front standing in front of loads of cameras.  And if I am wrong and that is exactly what they did then it certainly doesnt have the feel of an intelligence operation masterpiece and therefore might have implications on just who organised the framing (Keystone Cops?).  

I almost wonder sometimes why they just didnt leave it at 'the gunman got away' but planted evidence to implicate Cuba or whatever group they wanted to frame rather than introduce the huge complication of a live patsy.  

Another thing that has been speculated is something went wrong and Oswald was meant to die in the building. I certainly can believe that. However, if he was meant to be rubbed out in the building then LHO's location and movements during and just after the assassination made that impossible to do without it looking blatant.  I even wonder if LHO positioning himself at the door and not going deep into the bowls of the building afterwards is indicative that he twigged to the possibility he might be a Patsy and might be rubbed out if he gave an opportunity for that to happen.  His leaving of the building may been a similar self preservation move by LHO as did his behavour in the Cinema.  IMO his behavour in the cinema shows he knew he was a patsy already then and I suspect he knew it the minute he knew JFK had been killed.
Alan please stick around this forum because your observations are incredibly sound and very well thought out. You belong here bro and we need more of your kind. Yes it could have gone belly up like you said and Prayer Man is a classic example. Most cameras were shooting the motorcade and most were confiscated so that could be easily maintained back in those days and probably was. The risk was minimized in the case of Oswald by eliminating him and his obvious alibi. Witnesses were intimidated and threatened especially Frazier. One only has to see what he thinks of Fritz and his tactics he used on him to this day. It may have panned out a different way if things didn't go right but it ultimately did and we have 53 years of proof that it worked. I firmly believe they would have made some more shit up if they had to. Even as far as involving someone else they had up their sleeve and that could've been Frazier. I agree 100% with you that Oswald was probably meant to be shot earlier and hung around too long. He might have saved his hide initially with his intuition especially at the cinema but he was a dead man walking when they transferred him. The rest was just building a case against him. Henry Wade's history should tell us these guys were experts in that and with the FBI involved with the evidence side of things this was going to be covered up any which way. The Cuba angle didn't do much other than distract. IMO this was a Dallas thing. Intelligence may have had nothing to do with any of this but fuck if they were going to admit any knowledge of Oswald. After JFK was shot the most efficient thing to do was comply with the clean up and cover up. Contain as much as they could. No way was it in the nations best interest to delve any deeper. They took the murder scene and the body to Washington and dealt with it there. Don't forget the DPD wasn't even reprimanded for anything that happened. The WC did what they had to do. Try to convince the public this was a lone gunman who was a dirty commie. It became official.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by greg parker on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 8:55 am

Just a few quick things:

in my third book I will be showing that he was meant to be killed in the theater for a very specific reason.

In the 60s, police around the world were still pretty much a law unto themselves - some jurisdictions more so than others and though modern methods were slowly being introduced, cops  were still unsophisticated on the ground. How many times in the 1960s did anyone get exonerated on the grounds of police incompetence or corrupt practices? Rarely if ever happened anywhere - yet incompetence and corruption were rife. 

I can remember as a kid in Sydney (late 60s) seeing graffiti everywhere "Stop police verbals!" At that time, all cops here had to do was testify that the accused stated blah blah blah..." and it was game over. That evidence was accepted because you know, it's the cops word vs the criminal...


http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%2010.%20Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99 wrote:10.16 The joint majority judgment in Kelly (Gleeson CJ, Hayne and Heydon JJ) took a narrow view of the term ‘in the course of official questioning’. They accepted that the object of the section is to overcome ‘the “perceived problems” with the so-called police “verbal”’, including the possibility of fabrication of evidence by police, especially alleged admissions that are uncorroborated and which the accused would have the practical burden of disproving.[url=http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/ 10. Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99#_ftn28][28][/url] However, the majority held that the ‘purpose or object’ of a section does not compel any particular construction. Rather, the correct construction depends on the ‘quite detailed language’ used in the Act.[url=http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/ 10. Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99#_ftn29][29][/url]
Which is exactly what happened with Oswald. He was "verbaled" then killed so he couldn't disprove anything. Usually killing the accused was unnecessary because the whole legal system was keyed in to these practices and in Dallas, 90% of criminal defense lawyers were were in Wade's pocket. But of course, they had the whole world watching... and waiting for the trial. There was no way they could allow it.

We can't look at this through millennial eyes. That era was a whole different ball game. 

Another thing to keep in mind: the intelligence, political and organizational connections within the DPD.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Mick Purdy on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 8:11 pm

Can someone refresh my failing memory. Would it be fair to say Dougherty is unaccounted for during the assassination, and would Piper be another. I am so sorry if I've got this horribly wrong just checking for a fast track on this.Obviously we can account for Lee O. JD as near as I can tell has no real alibi during the shots...not sure about Piper...anyone else??
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 8:40 pm

Mick,

One of the early reports had a porter (in some versions, janitor) escorting Oswald to the 6th floor and then going back down to the 1st floor to watch the parade.

The FBI rightly zeroed in on Piper. He was the only janitor and his story was that he watched the motorcade from a 1st floor window. Moreover, he stated he had a brief chat with Oswald at lunchtime and claimed Oswald said he was going up or out (piper couldn't recall which) to eat. 

Piper also fit the description of Rowland's "elderly Negro" on the 6th floor and  had 3 different versions of his talk with Oswald -- one around 10, one around noon and in the last version, it was both.

Without going into all the details here, I think the conversation was at 10 and included Jarman and Norman and had to do with where they would watch the parade.

Jarman, Norman and Williams went to the 5th.

Dougherty testified he had lunch with Piper in the Domino room. I believe they both then went to the 6th.

I think Dougherty was who Rowland saw standing at "port arms". Dougherty's testimony as vague as it was about his movements that day, was sharp as a tack in recalling the exact number of years, months and days he was in the army. That and another piece of his testimony clearly shows he was somewhat fixated on the military.

I am reasonably certain up to this point. Somewhat less certain about what follows but I think it is possible he (Dougherty) spent time up there helping to frame Oswald, and may have even fired a shot from up there - a deliberate miss. If he did have some "issues" socially, developmentally or psychologically, he may have easily been duped into doing all of that as a joke on Oswald.

Whatever Piper witnessed up there I think made him run down to the first floor to where West was stationed.

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Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
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I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
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-----------------------------
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 02 Feb 2017, 12:45 pm

Thanks Greg.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 02 Feb 2017, 5:33 pm

I'm planning on condensiing this topic and trying to give it a timeline, a more concise streamlined version.

I'll be back!

Thanks to some sterling work here recently, I believe more than ever that Wesley and JD may have conspired to frame Oswald by the end of that Friday, and just maybe they were unwitting stand-by patsy's too, waiting in the wings.

And as Ed has said Wes could still give us an accurate description of JD and he should be pressed in the most rigorous way to tell us who the person is standing next to him on the steps of the TSBD immediately after the shots rang out....he has all but let us know in the past with his telling us who that person in the Darnell frame is not.

JD had keys to the back entrance door, he had access to all areas, he had ample opportunity to enter the building before others had arrived that morning, and I still believe Wes arrived alone at the TSBD that morning. Its not beyond the realms that JD and BWF met one another early on Friday at the warehouse. (imo)
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?"

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 1:24 pm

We also know from the HSCA interviews of Shields and Jarman that it was thought that Oswald rode to work every day with Frazier.

Here is Jarman:

Maxwell: Did he associate with any particular person there?


Jarman: No one but -- I can't think of the dude's name, the one that brings - that brought him to work all the time. 
---------------
Maxwell: And you didn't see him [Oswald] anymore after that?


Jarman: No. And the dude he used to ride with Wesley -- I can't think of his name.


Maxwell: Does he still work in the book department [sic]? 


Jarman: Wesley, no. I don't think he's here now --


Maxwell: Did they come to work there together?



Jarman: Yes, he always brought Oswald to work.



Credit G. Parker


This along with Sheilds HSCA Interview supports the notion that Oswald did travel to work every day with BWF, and we know that has far reaching implications in many aspects of this case.


And we now know thanks to Shanklin's report that Lee was in the DR at or about 7.45-7.50am and we know thanks to Sheilds that Wes arrived just after 8.00am. This IMO eliminates the possibility of Wes dropping Oswald at the TSBD door as he claimed and then parking his car as described by Sheilds HSCA interview.
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