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Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:02 pm
Seems she went to see what it cost. From Ruth PAine New Orleans Parish testimony:
Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Ruth10
Not a thing about being turned down.
And 150 bucks is pretty specific and expensive.
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:03 pm
So Marina and Lee go to see if they qualify for aid perhaps and what it would be.
Not turned down per se.
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:14 pm
Mrs. Murret. Well, she seemed the same way. They seemed to get along very nicely together, I thought, when they were here in New Orleans. They would take a ride out the French Market and buy some crabs and some shrimp and come149 home and boil and cook them. They got a big bang out of doing things like that.
Now, Marina was pregnant about that time, and we asked them if we could do anything for her in the way of getting some sort of treatment before the birth of the baby, but Marina didn't want any treatment. She said she didn't need any, and it seemed like Lee must have had her at Charity Hospital, I think at least one time, because he said they told him that when she was ready to have the child, to just come right on in.
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:18 pm
Smashed and demolished, another failed or floated theory by Priscilla Johnson McMillan. Where is that Letter from Leo Kerne, director, New Orleans Charity Hospital, to the author, ... I want to see it.

Cheers,
Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 14 Nov 2016, 8:58 pm
Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Charit13
greg parker
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Tue 29 Aug 2017, 10:55 am
bump

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Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Wed 30 Aug 2017, 5:11 pm
There is a large gap between H and the "i" and a casm between that HI and the dell
No matter what it 'reads' it is written oddly.
https://i.servimg.com/u/f37/17/60/28/90/hdell10.png
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 2:49 pm
My take, Take 2.

DVP's JFK ARCHIVES: LEE HARVEY OSWALD'S POST OFFICE BOX ...
jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/07/post-office-applications.html
Jul 15, 2010 - The likelihood is that he probably DID list that name, but the portion of the application that revealed such information was discarded after Oswald closed out the box. If he listed Hidell on his New Orleans P.O. Box forms (which he definitely did), then why wouldn't he list Hidell on his Dallas P.O. Box form?


Answer:

AJ Hidell lived in Louisiana, and was president of the FPCC in N.O.
He would not need or want mail from Texas.
But if some mail went to 30061 by mistake then Lee would need to accept it.

Lee had his own Po Box of 30061.

FPCC and AJ Hidell had Po Box 30016

Could Aj have been a doctor?

Lee had a vacination cert (faked)
and used Dr Hideel and his 30016 box.

Bugliosi claims:
He failed to notice his misspelling of his favorite alias, "Hidell." More seriously, he misprinted Dr. Hideel's post office box address, reversing the last two digits... 

Oh wait, isnt that the same exact excuse for the FPCC flyers with Po Box 30016. 
"Gerald Posner - 2013 - ‎History
Most were marked “L. H. Oswald, 4907 Magazine Street” or “A. J. Hidell, P.O. Box 30016” (the dyslexic Oswald transposed the last two digits of his post-office box, as it should have been 30061)."

So Lee consistantly and "wrongly" addresses certain items,. and rightly and consistently addresses other items never mixing the two.
OKAY! hmmmm.
That is not logical for dyslexia or even a mistake.
No, IMO Lee would have known the address for Hideel and or Hidell was 30016 and is thusly documented.

So Lee loaded a stamp holder with the wrong numerals, twice?
Oh wait the flyers were printed by a print shop.
So, gave the wrong address to them, or they are dyslexic?
Or no one proofed the handbills??? 
Really?..., who is going to pay for wrongly addressed flyers?
And hand them out wrongly addressed........boggles the mind that this would go uncovered for as long as it did.


We are told Po Box 30016 doesn't exist...physically isn't there at the Post Office... so wouldn't anyone writing to AJ Hidell-Hideel end up having their letters returned undeliverable? Unless a temp box was set up by PO inspectors to capture that wrongly addressed mail????? 

The bad address, if intentional, is so no mail is actually generated at a Po Box. Nothing to collect. 

Did no one try to contact this address, a reporter, anyone

Some handbills or flyers had 544 Camp Street address. Some of the "Hands Off Cuba"
handbills showed the named and address of 
"L. H. Oswald, 4907 Magazine Street, New Orleans, Louisiana"; 
whereas others showed
"A. J. Hidell, P.O. Box 30016, New Orleans, Louisiana." (PCR, p.
409.)


Dates:

As Lee Farley noted;

The date of June 8th on the vaccination card coincides with Marina being turned down treatment at the New Orleans Charity Hospital. The P.O. Box on the vaccination card is 30016 rather than 30061. The Warren Commission tell us that P.O. Box 30061 was opened on June 3rd 1963, when in fact the post office box opening slip is stamped June 11th:
P.O. Box Assignment
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...WH17_CE_817.pdf


Passport application:
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/wc/w...WH17_CE_781.pdf

Strangely, Lee spell's his own mothers name completely wrong on the above application form. ~Lee Farley 

So how do you give a Po Box that is not yet rented... you do not.
IMO this makes the document a 'Paine derived fake' to send Lee down the proverbial river.


Can we add some input from you Greg, and Lee too about the R J Electric company and the son, R.J. jr.
I know you covered this area but is there any THERE there?
Of course an capitalized R at times when written looks like an capital A ...
So our AJ Hidell could really be an R. J. Haydel. 
The FBI finds the address associated with  ????? are the Haydel's when asking about Ruby...? 

"LANCE A. GARCIA, Assistant Manager, Retailers Commercial
Company; Room 212, Delta- Building, 348 Baronne'Street, was recontacted and advised that a thorough search of his files had failed to reveal any listings identifiable with any individual named JACK RDBENSTEIN or JACK RUBY.
GARCIA stated that there were three separate listings
of credit reports contained in his files for the following listed
persons at the addresses indicated:


R . J . ELECTRIC COMPANY
4909 Danieel Street
New Orleans, Loulaiana
(Report bears dote of March 15, 1983,
according to GARCIA).

R. J . HAYDEL, JR .
1935 Dpperline Street
New Orleans, Louisiana
(Report bean date of July 12, 1983,
according to GARCIA) .

ROGER HAYDEL, SR .
331 Octavis Street
New Orleans, Louisiana
(Report bears date of
November 11, 1982,
according to GARCIA).

GARCIA stated that the above named files were no longer
in his possession as he had temporarily furnished them to a Special
Agent of the U.S . Secret Service named VIAL and added that he had
made them available to this Special Agent on a short term basis and
explained that he would not hesitate to furnish any files to the
FBI when they were made available to him. He .stated for information
that one R. J. HAYDEL, JR . referred to above had "skipped- and was
generally considered a very bad risk credit wise as approximately
thirty claims had been made against him for non-payment"

Now Patricia La Caze tells the FBI Jr was in Angola prison and in '61 was released, she then became engaged to him.
She goes to great lengths to explain a purchase from the Lee Rubber and Tire Corp, some white walls??? Saying it was RJ and no one else.
Tho I cannot find any talk to RJ Haydel jr by FBI
Or why the Lee Rubber n Tire purchase was suspicious or did RJ look like Lee Oswald?? What is up???

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1141.pdf

FBI searches, they used Hidell and its variants.
But on 11/27 and only once it seemed they searched Haydel variants...then avoided it again later.

Odd stuff don't you think guys.

Cheers, Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 4:37 pm
What I guess I need is how the Haydel's names came to the attention of the FBI ( edit: add Secret Service), as such they were very interested in a tire purchase by Jr.

What address was it that the FBI were targeting and why, what does some tire purchases by some guy named R J Haydel got to do with it?
La Caze says Lee Oswald is not one of Jr's friends. So they asked her if Lee Oswald was associated with her fiance, but no Ruby questions. Okay!

But wait they search for Ruby and Hidell variants with Hevron... 

JOHN E HEVRON, Assistant Secretary and Treasurer,

Louisiana, New Orleans Public Service Company, 317 Baronne Street, advised that it would be impossible to check listings for names of persons only without addresses, as records of  of thousands of New Orleans residents would have to searched . He advised however, that it was possible for
him to check records of a deposit ledger kept by this Company in name only and added that the following names had
been searched through this file,'and no listing identifiable
with the following-named persons had been located therein:


A . J . HIDELL
ALEX HIDELL
ANA HIDELL
JACK RUBENSTEIN
JACK RUBY


HEVRON stated that during the search he noted
that all variations in spelling of the above names were
searched.


HEVRON stated for information of the Federal
Bureau of Investigation that during the afternoon of November
25, 1963, a Secret Service Agent by the name of ROBERT
VIAL had contacted him and requested a record check through
his files for one R . J . HAYDEL, JR ., at an address listed as
1935 Upperline Street, New Orleans, Louisiana . BEVRON advised
that a check of his record. revealed that one ROGER J .
HAYDEL, SR ., lived at this address and not only held an 
account with the utility company but was employed as a bus
driver with this Company .

HEVRON stated to his knowledge

ROGER J . HAYDEL, 92, had been employed in the 1920's with
this Company .and terminated his employment at that time to
be re-employed as a bus driver on June 5, 1945, and continues
to be employed in this capacity at .the present time . He
stated this employee's date of birth was listed as June 5,
1945 and a previous address for HAYDEL, SR ., was listed as
331 Octavia Street . New Orleans.

NEVRON stated that to the best of his knowledge, Secret Service Agent VIAL informed him that supposedly R . J . HAYDEL, JR ., was .connected with the R . J. Electric Company at 4909 Daneel Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, and requested that this address and name be searched through public Service files to determine if any record might be found of service at this location

HEVRON stated that a check revealed that no service had been installed at 4909 Daneel Street, however, application for installation of such service had been made on !larch 22, 1962, by a person who listed his name as J LACAZE, 4909 Daneel Street, who identified his former residence as 5306 .Magazine Street, Apartment 7, and furnished the following telephone numbers: 895-7874 TN . 9-0334 HEVRON stated that the subject of the assassination of President JOHN F . KENNEDY had such a profound effect upon him that he had.followed very carefully all newscasts and newspaper accounts and added that if he was not mistaken, he recalled hearing a report somewhere that circulars bearing the words "Hands Off Cuba" had been passed out at New Orleans, Louisiana, .by OSWALD sometime in August, 1963, and some of these circulars bore the name HYDEL or HAYDEL with a Post Office Box at New Orleans, Louisiana, of 30016 .



Of note there is no Daneel but there is a Danneel Street in NO.
They also check these set of name variant at the sanitation and water board


The IRS is searched for the Hydel variants on 27th!!

N ove mb e r 27, 1963 Mr . A . O . FONVILLE, Inspector in Charge, Inspection Service, Internal Revenue Bureau, U . H . Treasury Department, 337 Federal Building, South Street, New Orleans, Louisiana, advised that at the request of the Assistant Regional lnspector in Charge of Internal Security, Internal Revenue Bureau, Dallas, Texas, he had caused a check to be made of persons filing income tax returns with the Internal Revenue Bureau at Now Orleans, Louisiana, having the following surnames :
HIDELL
HYDELL
HYDEL
HIADELL
HIDELL

His request was to determine whether persons of any of the above surnames having any combination of the following initials or first names had filed a return for the calendar years 1961 or 1962
&
A . J .
A . T .
ALEK
ALEK J .
ALEX J .
ALEX JAMES
JAMES

Mr . FONVILLE stated he caused a check to be made and determined that no one having the last same HIDELL had filed an income tax return at New Orleans for either calendar year . He also determined that no one with the other surnames having any variation of the above initials or first names had filed an income tax return at New Orleans for the calendar years 1961 or 1962 . Upon request, Mr . FONVILLE caused a check to be made and advised that no income tax return was filed for 1961 or 1962 by LEE HARVEY OSWALD, by anyone with the last name HAYDELL or by anyone with the name O . H . LEE . Mr . PONVILLE furnished the following information concerning returns filed by persons with - last name HYDELL and HAYDEL. 
 


Looks like Fonville come up with a Haydel on his own.
Garcia searched for Haydel as directed by Secret Service!
Whoa.

Cheers, Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 4:44 pm
So on the 25th Of November the Secret Service, and agent Vial has R.J. Haydel Jr. on his radar.

How so? 

Cheers ROKC'ers
Ed
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 4:50 pm
The SS's story

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=9893&relPageId=339&search=haydel 

Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Img_9893_339_300
Cheers, Ed
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Vinny
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 27 Apr 2018, 8:31 pm
Hope somebody will ask Ruth the hard questions before it is too late
Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Sat 28 Apr 2018, 7:51 pm
I know right Vinny.
As Greg pointed out its her Quaker way of avoiding those questions rather than lie outright.
She is a master of the dodge.

Cheers, Ed
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Tue 03 Dec 2019, 9:46 am
Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Don_mo10


Thanks to Malcolm Blunt. Scan by me.

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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 8:42 pm
I thought I read that Nagell had invented the name 'Hidell' and possibly used it himself. HID being the acronym for the South Korean Intelligence Service (of which Nagell was very familiar) and "ELL" was the ending of Nagell's surname.
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Mon 09 Dec 2019, 11:07 pm
Peter Johnsen wrote:I thought I read that Nagell had invented the name 'Hidell' and possibly used it himself. HID being the acronym for the South Korean Intelligence Service (of which Nagell was very familiar) and "ELL" was the ending of Nagell's surname.
No, you are right, Peter - you did read it. But it is not a fact, but conjecture.

Here is what is said in "JFK and the Unspeakable"

"Nagell's biographer Dick Russell believes it was Nagell who actually assigned the “Hidell” alias..." 

Unfortunately a huge amount of conjecture has been repeated so often, it wrongly believed to be fact. Just human nature to accept things if we see or hear them often enough.

Other conjecture includes that comes from HIDE FIDEL 

And yet other conjecture that it is an anagram

And finally, that it has been borrowed from William Hidell, the Secretary to the Vice President of the Confederacy, Alexander Stephenson. 

I'm rather partial to that last one myself.

_________________
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Peter Johnsen
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 1:49 pm
Thanks for that info Greg. When you are dealing with spycraft, it could originate from anywhere or anything. I thought also that Nagell had ID in his car trunk that also contained the name Hiddell. Meaning that Oswald wasn't the only one using that name during this period. I'm sorry, but I am a huge believer in Nagell and his story. He may have also been involved with deception towards the end of his years, but you can only forgive him that when it was a matter of access to his children and a secure and rightful income pension and in the end his very life, that was in the balance.
I think he did have photos, documents squirreled away that would have divulged much more information re. Oswald's spying activities in the lead up, but the insidious deep state operatives probably got to them and they exist no more.
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Tue 10 Dec 2019, 4:41 pm
Peter Johnsen wrote:Thanks for that info Greg. When you are dealing with spycraft, it could originate from anywhere or anything. I thought also that Nagell had ID in his car trunk that also contained the name Hiddell. Meaning that Oswald wasn't the only one using that name during this period. I'm sorry, but I am a huge believer in Nagell and his story. He may have also been involved with deception towards the end of his years, but you can only forgive him that when it was a matter of access to his children and a secure and rightful income pension and in the end his very life, that was in the balance.
I think he did have photos, documents squirreled away that would have divulged much more information re. Oswald's spying activities in the lead up, but the insidious deep state operatives probably got to them and they exist no more.
Peter,

Nagell had no Hidell cards in his trunk or n his person at any time. What he is supposed (I use that term advisedly, because the records are sketchy at best) had is FPCC and other pro-Cuba literature and a camera among other bits and pieces.

The card you are thinking of was a copy of Oswald's ID but with someone else's photo (possibly Nagell himself, but from when he was much younger). 

Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Nagel%20DOD%20card

This was found in the files on Nagell held by his lawyer, Bernard Fensterwald,  and I believe, found by Dick Russell.

Here's the thing. It is an EXACT copy of Oswald's own card - except for the photo and signature.

Oswald's card was NOT published in the Warren Commission volumes. It was not published anywhere until the publication of Judy Bonner's book, "Investigation of a Homicide" in 1969 and this pristine copy (the original was ruined by FBI tests) was given to her by Det. Jerry Hill.

I think Nagell's card is pretty obviously a photo or photocopy of what was published by Bonner, with the photo and signature being replaced. This would not have been difficult. They did not even bother changing the number of the card.

The only real uncertainty is whether Nagell made this poor copy, or whether it was that huge fraud, Fensterwald.

Fake evidence was produced by the authorities to help "prove" their case.

But it didn't stop there. Others have followed suit to help "prove" their theories. 

The fake police report showing Oswald and Ruby in a fight, is one such fake, off the top of my head, but there are a number of examples. In fact, the further time marches on, the more fakery is seeping through.  Fake Oswald rings and books at auction and fake witnesses by the dozen, some supported by more fake evidence. 

No one cares any more. It's a free-for-all and the fake with the most followers is the winner.

This place is the last bastion of sanity; the last place where facts actually matter.

_________________
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              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


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Vinny
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Thu 12 Dec 2019, 2:58 am
This place is the last bastion of sanity; the last place where facts actually matter.


Exactly.
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Sun 01 Mar 2020, 12:08 am
Thanks to Malcolm Blunt

Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Hidell11
Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Hidell10
Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Hidell12Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Hidell13

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Ed. Ledoux
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Wed 04 Mar 2020, 2:52 pm
https://servimg.com/view/19524087/1843
I'll finish #7.
....So one of them ran with the rifle upon seeing police, and hid the gun in the TSBD, ..that was being cleaned by ACME and/or happened to have a door or window open,. So its hidden upstairs behind some boxes where he hoped to retrieve it later.
Also upper floor provides a good view to see the cops check area and leave.
😉

Cheers, Ed
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 12:57 am
Great stuff, Ed!

_________________
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-----------------------------
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Mick Purdy
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 10:28 am
Shanklin and Hosty - key persons of interest IMO.
zangarathepatsy
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 4:06 pm
A. Hidell is an anagram for Delilah. Delilah was a bartender who worked for Ruby. It is believed she was connected to intelligence operations. She married a man who then killed her ten days later. Is it true? I don't know but its in the Garrison files.
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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

on Fri 06 Mar 2020, 9:55 pm
zangarathepatsy wrote:A. Hidell is an anagram for Delilah. Delilah was a bartender who worked for Ruby. It is believed she was connected to intelligence operations. She married a man who then killed her ten days later. Is it true? I don't know but its in the Garrison files.

From Mary Ferrell database

"Stripper booked at Carousel for 2 weeks 11/11/63. 27-yrs-old, married to John Miranda, Dallas drummer. Married Leonard Walle of New Orleans. Walle shot her in Omaha on 8/31/66."

And here it is
https://law.justia.com/cases/nebraska/supreme-court/1968/36631-1.html

She was a stripper, not a barmaid.

There is no evidence she was working in Dallas the first time the name Hidell is used (weapons orders).

And it was over two years later she was killed by her husband, not 10 days.

When it comes to Ruby's strippers and wait staff, there is no shortage of confusion - partly because they used so many names but also because of the sloppy work of Penn Jones and others.

The fact that A Hidell is an anagram of Delilah (and I appreciate you are not saying you believe it) would seem to be no more than a real coincidence . It also doesn't take into account that it was sometimes AJ Hidell.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


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Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless - Page 4 Empty Re: Hidell: the frame was bold and ruthless

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