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Vinny- Posts : 3356
Join date : 2013-08-27
Was the Baker, Truly Mystery Man encounter actually on the 5th?
Sat 01 Oct 2016, 7:32 pm
From the webs forum.
Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049
Greg
Site Owner
Posts: 2049
I am in the middle of udating one of my old pieces on the bakey/truly/oswald encounter and decided I needed to take into account Colin Crow's theory that the elevator that Baker/tTruly claimed was on 5 was actually on 6. This is important because of the following from Baker's testimony:
If the elevator was on 5 than, according to this statement, the encounter must have happened on 4. But if Colin is correct, then the encounter actually took place on 5. What are the ramifications of this, if true? Can the statements of the 3 workers help confirm or refute this? Does it bring Dougherty into the picture as the mystery man? All thoughts appreciated. | ||
| -- I'm just one of the Dregs of Society from South Bunyip Valley Heights In an expanding universe, time is on the side of the outcast. Those who once inhabited the suburbs of human contempt find that without changing their address they eventually live in the metropolis. Quentin Crisp http://gregparke4.wix.com/gregrparker
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- Vinny
- Posts : 3356
Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Was the Baker, Truly Mystery Man encounter actually on the 5th?
Sat 01 Oct 2016, 7:35 pm
Redfern
Member
Posts: 60
Although we've never seen a authenticated photograph of Dougherty, the description given by Baker doesn't match in terms of age or size, as described by Truly. The mystery man was wearing a jacket, which is another factor suggesting he wasn't Dougherty. The lift (probably the west elevator) being on the 5th tallies with BRW's affidavit. | ||
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Colin Crow Member Posts: 262 | I am now having to reconsider the positions of the elevators at the time of the shots. On the day after the assassination Williams said he departed the sixth floor by the stairs. On January 14th he said he used the west elevator to go down. It was not until his March 24 tortured testimony that he said he used the east elevator. This was after a session 4 days before with Jarman and Norman, under the direction of Ball. Jarman and Norman claimed to have taken the west elevator about 12.25 to the fifth floor. They shut the gate so that it could be called. They said that they went to the east elevator first after entering the back door and it appeared to be on six. It has been assumed that it was Williams who used the elevator about 12.10 to go up. Perhaps Williams used the west elevator and then closed the gates on six. This means that someone else used the east elevator to go to six. Dougherty claimed he went to six, if so, he must have used the elevator after Jarman and Norman. He likely arrived on six just before the shots "to get some stock". He then claimed to go down on the west elevator to five. As Truly tried to call the west elevator but was unsuccessful, the gates must have been left open at that time. I find it hard to believe Dougherty was on the fifth floor at this time as he was not seen or heard by the three guys and failed to react to Truly's call for the elevator gates to be shut. Truly said he thought both elevators were on the fifth floor when he arrived at the back stairs. It is possible that they were both on six, if Williams used the stairs to go down as he originally claimed, and Dougherty was actually on six at the time of the shots. By the time Truly and Baker arrived on five, Truly notices the east elevator is there. Who brought the east elevator down one floor? Dougherty? Who closed the gates on the west elevator for it to descend? | |
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- Vinny
- Posts : 3356
Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Was the Baker, Truly Mystery Man encounter actually on the 5th?
Sat 01 Oct 2016, 7:36 pm
Big Boss Member Posts: 3 | Its amazing how so much went on in the TSBD and yet there isn't too much (or as much as I'd imagine excluding a conspiracy lol) on anyone seeing the 'mechanics' or shooters inside the bldg. They were definitely very slick operators... | |
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Beowulf Member Posts: 179 | The tell that neither elevator was on 5th is that a week after shooting, FBI ran 10 different escape routes, none of which involved 5th floor elevators (but did include 1st, 2nd, 4th and 6th floor elevator scenarios). The story of calling for elevators stuck on 5th floor was invented to add wasted time to Baker & Truly route upstairs, they had to very slowly go up back stairs because what they actually did-- immediately go up front stairs-- would get them to 2nd floor lunchroom way too fast for Oswald to ever beat them there from 6th floor. Once they passed the lunchroom (whether or not they saw anyone there), they could have opened door to landing and then taken either elevator or back stairs up from there. If you think of the FBI time trials has describing both the Oswald exit route and the Baker & Truly entry route, B&T taking 2nd floor elevator up is scenario 8 in reverse--- in front door, up front stairs to 2nd floor lunchroom (the 30 second pause here is also about how long it took Baker to reach TSBD front door, I believe film analysis shows it to be 23 seconds), then back towards rear stairway to go up on freight elevator. Scenario 8 has elevator running between 6th and 2nd floor but 2nd floor to 5th floor is close enough (Scenario 7, run in reverse, would have B&T going up front stairs, pause in lunchroom, and then up from 2nd floor on back stairs). Ironically the weakest part of this argument is that there is no 5th floor elevator (coming or going) mentioned in any of the FBI's 10 time trials. Of course the WC Report has TWO elevators on the fifth floor, making it twice as weak an argument. http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=57697&relPageId=130 | |
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_________________
Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
- Vinny
- Posts : 3356
Join date : 2013-08-27
Re: Was the Baker, Truly Mystery Man encounter actually on the 5th?
Sat 01 Oct 2016, 7:38 pm
Beowulf Member Posts: 179 | BB, shooting teams could hide in plain site if they carried fake Secret Service credentials. There were no genuine SS agents immediately on the ground in Dealey Plaza yet local cops were shown credentials by "agents" on grassy knoll and behind TSBD. | |
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Colin Crow Member Posts: 262 | I believe that the elevators "stuck on five" story was developed about March 20, by Ball and Belin, when confronted by the conundrum of the possible elevator movements. I believe it is likely, that at least the west elevator and possibly the east, were on the sixth floor at the time of the shots. If the east was on six, someone moved it to five before,the arrival,of Baker and Truly. Another possibility was that Baker and Truly caught the east elevator on six, not five. | |
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