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StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Thu 11 Aug 2016, 6:23 pm
First topic message reminder :

This is full rebuild of the hugely popular thread created by Mick Purdy at the Webs forum in February 2015. – Stan

Mick Purdy

I believe Buell Wesley Frazier lied about seeing Lee Oswald with a package, a package two feet long on the morning of Friday November 22nd 1963.

I believe Linnie Mae Randle lied about seeing Oswald with a package, a package 27 inches long on the Morning of 22nd Nov 1963.

I believe both Linnie Mae Randle and Buell Wesley Frazier fabricated the curtain rod story.

I think there is ample evidence in their WC testimonies, affidavits and FBI interviews to support each of these contentions.

I have also come to the conclusion (after having a closer look at the testimonies and the various reports), that Buell Wesley Frazier lied about another crucially important matter that day. In my opinion the totality of the evidence suggests Frazier lied with regards to driving Lee Harvey Oswald to work that fateful morning.

Take a moment to reflect upon the importance of that drive to the case against Oswald before reading on.

The story was very likely fabricated not merely to have Oswald appear to carry a sack into work – but also to create the illusion of Oswald carrying a rifle. This conclusion is drawn from a study of the WC testimonies of both Randle and Frazier regarding Oswald, the package and his alleged arrival at the Randle residence that morning. Ten or more neighbours considered to be best placed to spot pedestrian movement in the vicinity were interviewed by the FBI as to whether they saw Oswald carrying a package from the Paine’s home to the Randle home. To a person, they stated they had not seen Oswald that morning – with or without any suspicious package which the police on more than one occasion, described as being similar in size and shape to a rifle case.

Frazier’s WC and Shaw trial testimony regarding the journey into work with Oswald appears rehearsed. Any questions relating to the “sack” or what was said in the car on the way in is met with what sounds very much like scripted answers that have become Frazier’s Lore. The sack, the curtain rods, the weather, and my favourite, Oswald’s kids, are IMO all part of the charade. Away from the small talk and banter about kids, he constantly flip flopped on testimony in a manner redolent with patterns of deceit.

Frazier’s WC testimony with regard to his arrival at work is at complete odds with the HSCA interview of Edward Shields. Though it could be argued Shields, unlike Frazier, was not under oath, and therefore is a witness of lesser value, the fact is that Shields was as close as you can get to a disinterested party merely reporting for the first what he had heard. Sadly, it took well over a decade for him to receive any relevant questions. In any event, it is highly unlikely he ever realized the import of his information.
  
From the HSCA interview of Shields
 
SHIELDS: I think Charles Givens hollered out there and asked Frazier where was his rider and he told him: "I dropped him off at the building." Yeah, that was it...Well, I was down on the floor when they hollered out and said and the answer he gave them, I don't know, I think he said: "I dropped him off at the building." Now, whoever it was hollering asked him, I don't know.
DAY: This is the morning of the assassination?
SHIELDS: Mm-hmm.
DAY: Somebody hollered out the window and say: "Where is your rider?" And to your recollection, Frazier says, "I dropped him off at the building."
SHIELDS: Yes.
DAY: Alright. The day of the assassination, did you see Oswald come to work with Frazier?
SHIELDS: No I didn’t.
 
To summarize what we have so far… no one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald walk to the Frazier residence that morning. No one claimed to see Lee Harvey Oswald in Frazier’s car that morning – except Frazier himself. No one saw Lee Harvey Oswald that morning with any package except Wes and Linnie Mae.

Frazier also testified that he let Oswald get well ahead on the walk from the car park to the loading dock entrance. But in the form of Edward Shields, we have a potential reason for Frazier to construct that story.

In the above two short paragraphs alone, we have three “firsts” – firsts that are needed for the official story to hold. Oswald had never walked to the Randle residence for his lift before. He was always picked up at the Paine house. Oswald had never taken a long package to work before. Oswald had never neglected to take a packed lunch before. Oswald had never even needed a lift on a Friday morning before. Frazier had never let Oswald walk ahead of him from the car park before. They had always walked in together. That is a lot of “firsts” – all reliant on a very tight little knit of witnesses outside of which, no corroboration exists. Nobody else, not one person can verify Frazier’s version of events in Irving except for his sister. At the other end of the journey at the TSBD parking lot, we rely solely on Frazier. It beggars belief that there are no other witnesses. That walk was at least 2 and 1/2 blocks long. Shields and Givens smash his fairy-tale apart.

This “story” IMO has the same stench wafting around it, like the rest of the days fables contain.

The bus trip, the cab ride, the sack, the run, the walk, the ducking, the escape, the 2nd floor, the first floor, the sixth floor, the lunch bag, the rifle case, the back seat, the front seat, the white jacket the grey jacket, the gun, the revolver ……………
 
An alternative scenario

Postal Inspectors interviewed Mr and Mrs CP Schneider at 2707 West Fifth St in the early evening of November 22. Mr Schneider confirmed he had seen Lee Oswald in front of the 2515 residence at approximately 6:00pm of the previous evening. He also stated that a neighbour, Mrs Ed Roberts of 2519 West Fifth St had told him that Willie Randle, 2439 West Fifth St, had driven Oswald to work on the morning of November 22, and that Oswald was carrying a package large enough to have contained a rifle. (CD 296)

What sort of investigation is it that receives hearsay evidence such as the above and fails to follow up to confirm or refute it with the parties involved? WE are indeed, expected to believe that no follow up was done, because there is no evidence any follow up was done. Yet, there is actually circumstantial evidence that the authorities did believe that Randle was the man who gave the lift because that same night, the FBI was attempting to trace the origins of the scope in the names of Lee Oswald OR Willie Randall [sic]. (CD 87) It is virtually impossible to believe that the FBI would act on hearsay alone, when a few houses from where the hearsay was received, lived the person who had passed on that hearsay. You would almost have to believe that this “Willie Randle” lead was followed up and that it checked out given the ease with which such a lead could be checked out. To further complicate matters, the DPD already had Oswald’s alleged driver in custody. If Frazier truly was the driver, there would no reason at all to be checking on “Willy Randle/Randall” as a co-conspirator!

Randle had arrived in Austin at about 7:00pm on what was said to be work-related business in company with co-worker named Berry Caster. (FBI 105-82555 Oswald HQ File, Section 32, p44) It is between a 3 and 4 hour drive from Irving to Austin, so it is far from impossible that “Willie” drove Lee to work that morning on the basis that Frazier had already left.

Because of the holes in the official investigation, some conjecture is needed if we are to try understand the mess we have been left. What follows is some of my conjecture.

Frazier left that morning on his own – with the throwdown M-C rifle. The call from Givens of “where’s your rider?” was code giving Frazier the all clear to bring “the package” in, or was code for simply it’s clear to come inside.

Since Lee had missed his ride, Willie Randle offered to give him one, but needed to borrow Ruth’s car since his own was full of work gear for the trip to Austin later on. This leads to Oswald’s statement in front of Roger Craig concerning Craig’s description of a certain station wagon that "That station wagon belongs to Mrs. Paine. Don't try to tie her into this. She had nothing to do with it."

Doesn’t that sound like someone talking about a car that was being driven by someone else?

I’d like to thank Greg Parker for his enormous support and encouragement.


Last edited by greg parker on Wed 28 Jun 2017, 3:27 pm; edited 8 times in total (Reason for editing : Updated information)

StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:52 pm
Mick Purdy

This would be our Benny then.

frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Benny

https://www.facebook.com/benny.caster
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:53 pm
Mick Purdy

Now we need to recheck if Benny (Not Berry) was related to Warren. Cool
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:54 pm
Mick Purdy

The first name of Berry struck me as unusual so I've done some searches.

I'm glad you found that name unusual, Phil!
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:58 pm
Mick Purdy

From the old forum:

Sat 14 Jun 2014, 12:46 pm
 
Caster's grandfather, father, father's siblings, etc,:
(His name was Benny J., not Berry J.....)
 
http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=19683503
 
Proof of the Berry/Benny name mix up.:
http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php/topic,1186.msg315689.html#msg315689
 
....and links to Warren D Caster obit, his wife's obit, and his brother's obit.:
http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=7214&p=235504
 

I find no near, blood relationship between Benny and Warren Caster.
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 1:59 pm
Mick Purdy

Now, did Benny look like Oswald back in the day?
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:03 pm
Mick Purdy

Far Left: pinned - 2519 W Fifth St Dorothy Roberts: 

Top: pinned - Counter Top Irving 1826 Parkside Ave Irving:

Far Right: pinned - Benny Caster. 214 W Shady Grv Irving:

Far Left also: pinned - Randle residence 2439 Westbrook Drv Irving:


frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Benny%20Caster%20Residence
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:05 pm
Mick Purdy

The questions for me are - was Benny Caster picked up by William Randle that Friday morning from home - or the office to make the trip to Austin? And if so what time?

Did Benny make his own way to the Randles? If so in what vehicle?

For Roberts to have claimed what she had told the Schneiders - that she saw Willie with Lee in a car on the Friday morning, then if it was not Lee then the only other person it logically could have been is Benny.

If we could find out from Benny what time he left with Randle to go to Austin and where they departed from - then that IMO would go a long way in establishing if Willie Randle did or did not have Oswald in his car that morning.

Of course there is the possibility that Roberts got it wrong and had observed Wes and Lee in Wes's car. 

But for Roberts to observe this event, the pair would have probably had to have departed from the Paine's house - which is after all what had happened nearly every other time they left for work.

Marina in her WC testimony has stated that on another occasion she thought Linnie Randle may have picked Lee up for work and driven him to the bus stop. 

Either way for Roberts to have observed Lee in a car with somebody else at or near her home then the car would have most likely had to pass her home driving West along W Fifth street that's assuming either Linnie Mae, Bill Randle or Wes had picked Oswald up from the Paine's.

Roberts would have never seen or observed Lee in a car with a driver, if he'd made the walk to the Randles as they would have departed for the TSBD driving East - avoiding driving past 2519 West Fifth street.

It is more than possible that Roberts observed Randle and Caster together in a car. But this matter could be settled if Benny Caster could divulge the detail of the when how and where of that trip to Austin.


It would be mildly interesting if we could eliminate Caster as the passenger in Willies car at around the time Oswald was leaving for work that Friday morning.

frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Benny%20Caster%20Residence%202

North: Top
South: Bottom
West: Left
East: Right
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:06 pm
Ed Ledoux

Aloha Phil,
Aces on the Berry - Benny interchange. Never trust the FBI or WC is giving he correct spelling,  So what was BENNY up to?

AIRMAN BENNY J. CASTER. son of Martin E. Caster d 214 W. Shady Grove, Irving« Tex., has completed his ini- tail course of Air Farce basic military training here. He has been selected to attend the technical training school for Aircraft Missile Maintenance at Chanute. AFFi 111. Airman Caster attended Irving High School.
Irving Daily News » 1958 » October » 30 Oct 1958, Thu » Page 58
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/48089797/

Two Men Injured In Irving Wrecks Two Irv'ing men were injured in separate accidents, both on Shady Grove Rd., Thursday morning. One was hospitalized in Dallas and the other was treated in Irving and released. Jack Covington, 23,of 1510 Rindle, was in fair condition at Parkland Hospital Thursday afternoon after undergoing surgery. The extent of his injuries were not available. Covington was injured at 12:25 a.m. Thursday when the 1955 Pontiac he was driving crashed into a parked ditching machine on Shady Grove Rd. near Bowman St, According to John W, Looper, Accident Investigator, Covington's car was traveling west when it passed another car and the left wheels left the road. Covington allegedly lost control of the car, and it swerved off the road on each side before striking the machine, owned by E, L, Dalton Construction Co, of Dallas. Damage to his car was said to be $300, \vhlle the machine received $100 damage. Benny Joe Caster, 214 W. Shady Grove Rd., was Injured when the cycle he was riding and a car driven by Eugene Edward Wariner collided at the E. Shady Grove Rd. -Trinity V'iew Intersection. Caster was treated at Gilbert Medical Clinic and released. According to police reports, Caster was going east ^ on Shady Grove, and a Ford I driven by Wariner was preparing to turn left onto Shad>' Grove Rd. when the accident occurred. After the cycle struck the car, It overturned and skidded to a stop on the north shoulder of Shad>' Grove.
The Irving Daily News Texan » 1962 » September » 28 Sep 1962, Fri » Page 1

He was the usher at the Don Carlile wedding of Joan Davis, The Irving Daily News Texan » 1963 » August » 25 Aug 1963, Sun » Page 19
https://www.newspapers.com/newspage/51450989/

And groom in '75
Benny J Caster and Alice F Ray were married on October 18, 1975 in Dallas County, Texas.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:07 pm
Ed Ledoux

Any have their set warmed up?
KE5WMJ
Alice F Caster
Grand Prairie, TX
Technician
Individual
Active
KE5WMI
Benny J Caster
Grand Prairie, TX
Technician
Individual
Active
They have their HAM licenses.
StanDane
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:09 pm
Ed Ledoux

This may be as close to what he'd look like in '63, I can grab it if you want.

http://www.e-yearbook.com/yearbooks/Irving_High_School_Lair_Yearbook/1957/Page_16.html

Funny he is with a Charles Randle..
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:10 pm
Alan

Is there any evidence that BWF after the assassination came into money you wouldn't expect from his career path? Just wonder how much carrot and how much stick has been used on him.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:12 pm
Alan

Let's say (as seems very likely to me) that LHO and BWF are standing together and apparently communicating with each other at the back step.  Is there any significance to the fact they are in what I assume is a position that only people arriving last out the building would take up due to better spots already having been taken?  Is there anything that would lead them to taking up a bad position or leaving a little late? Location in the building?

What I would say is it's the last position you would take up if you thought you needed to get away.  Its a bad position if you really wanted to keep an eye on the motorcade or events during and after the shooting. However it's also a bad spot if you had some prior knowledge of the plot and consciously wanted to make sure you have an alibi by being seen by as many colleagues as possible. It also isn't a spot you would choose to stand in if you had prior knowledge and knew police would be charging towards the door soon.

It's kind of the spot someone with only a minimal interest in seeing the event would take if their main goal was to have a slight advantage in getting back into the building to have lunch, get to the coke machine before others or whatever. if, as seems very likely, it is LHO then it doesn't speak of a man with prior-knowledge or a peripheral role in the assassination.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:13 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Alan

Let's say (as seems very likely to me) that LHO and BWF are standing together and apparently communicating with each other at the back step.  Is there any significance to the fact they are in what I assume is a position that only people arriving last out the building would take up due to better spots already having been taken?  Is there anything that would lead them to taking up a bad position or leaving a little late? Location in the building?

What I would say is it's the last position you would take up if you thought you needed to get away.  Its a bad position if you really wanted to keep an eye on the motorcade or events during and after the shooting. However it's also a bad spot if you had some prior knowledge of the plot and consciously wanted to make sure you have an alibi by being seen by as many colleagues as possible. It also isn't a spot you would choose to stand in if you had prior knowledge and knew police would be charging towards the door soon.

It's kind of the spot someone with only a minimal interest in seeing the event would take if their main goal was to have a slight advantage in getting back into the building to have lunch, get to the coke machine before others or whatever. if, as seems very likely, it is LHO then it doesn't speak of a man with prior-knowledge or a peripheral role in the assassination.

Terry Martin
 
Alan,
 
Very good points about the position taken at that time. If it can be proven to be Oswald, all the theories about his involvement will be precisely dick.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:15 pm
Alan

I saw someone on Facebook raise a theory that had occurred to me as well. I tend to think the whole framing LHO was a military originated thing which was aimed at giving the US an excuse to invade Cuba and topple Castro.  However, it was not necessary to actually kill JFK to do that. It just had to look like a Cuban linked person (LHO's legend) had tried. So individually I came up with the same theory as the guy on Facebook that there could have been a 'shoot to miss' plot by military types itching to get at Cuba that as hijacked into a fatal plot. I don't know if this is a reasonable theory or just over complicating things. I tend to think if a 'shoot to miss' JFK thing with fake Cuban connections had taken place it would have been a whole lot less messy but the military would still in all likelihood got their excuse to invade Cuba.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:16 pm
Greg Parker
 
Alan, either Mr. X was tapped to get on board because of his connections to certain individuals by using his personal problems which would be fixed with an assassination as the bait, or Mr. X tapped into his military/intel/Cuban connections using an invasion of Cuba as bait. Either way, fixing his own problems was his main priority. Any other outcomes were just cream. Using Cubans would also help muddy the waters.
--------------------
I wouldn't entirely discount the "deliberate miss" theory because it can work in just about any scenario. It may also cause the Walker shooting to take on a new perspective as a "practice run".

At the moment though, it hasn't got a lot of evidentiary support. Just something to keep in the back of the mind as a remote possibility.
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frazier - Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A - Page 40 Empty Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part A

Mon 22 Aug 2016, 2:18 pm
Stan Dane wrote:Greg Parker
 
Alan, either Mr. X was tapped to get on board because of his connections to certain individuals by using his personal problems which would be fixed with an assassination as the bait, or Mr. X tapped into his military/intel/Cuban connections using an invasion of Cuba as bait. Either way, fixing his own problems was his main priority. Any other outcomes were just cream. Using Cubans would also help muddy the waters.
--------------------
I wouldn't entirely discount the "deliberate miss" theory because it can work in just about any scenario. It may also cause the Walker shooting to take on a new perspective as a "practice run".

At the moment though, it hasn't got a lot of evidentiary support. Just something to keep in the back of the mind as a remote possibility.

Alan
 
So when you are saying Mr. X you mean there was a single individual driving the whole thing?  One thing that has always baffled me is how messy the whole thing is.  Either the people involved were like the keystone cops or something went badly wrong. So much of the cover-up seems like on the hoof improvising done rather badly. My impression from several essays and books is an awful lot of people know more than they let on. It's an extraordinary mess with far too many people knowing something. Why did so much messy improvisation have to happen? The KGB would probably just have put radioactive material in JFK's suntan lotion :0)  So in your opinion was this just a keystone cops operation which would have been laughable to most intel agencies or did something go badly wrong with the plan which required lots of desperate improvisation?

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