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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by greg parker on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 9:46 am

Truly doesn't seem in any hurry to quit for lunch to watch the parade (or Campbell). Doesn't even seem to have it on his agenda until he gets outside and realizes it's coming:

Mr. BELIN. Now, when did you leave for lunch, Mr. Truly? 
Mr. TRULY. As near as I know, it was between somewheres around 12:10 or shortly after, possibly 12:15. 
Mr. BELIN. At that time did you go out to lunch? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Where did you go to eat? 
Mr. TRULY. We didn't go anywheres. Mr. Campbell and I-- 
Mr. BELIN. That is Mr. O. V. Campbell? 
Mr. TRULY. Mr. O. V. Campbell, vice president--and I had started out for lunch. I don't know as we had any particular place in mind. We ate at several places around there.
It was around 12:10 or 12:15, I would say, to the nearest of my memory.
As we got to the outside of the building, we noticed that it wouldn't be long until the motorcade would come by, and we decided to wait and watch the President come by. 

--------------------------

So the workers need to get off at 11:45 but the bosses know they can just amble out at 10 or 15 past the hour...?

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by greg parker on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 9:47 am

Could it be that those workers need to be seen to get clear of that area to make a sniper's prep more believable?

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by greg parker on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 10:12 am

Just as a reminder, here is what Jarman told the HSCA:


from the leads thread wrote:James Jarman told a HSCA investigator that he heard on the day of the assassination that Oswald had been allowed to leave the building after coming down the front stairs. This permission was given by Roy Truly and the same police officer who ordered Norman and Williams and himself back inside. See: HSCA transcript at main site.
By the way, those transcripts are (slowly) going up at my new site.

https://www.thenewdisease.space/collections

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
Out to where the van is waiting
I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

            Billy Bragg
-----------------------------
 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 11:49 am

greg parker wrote:
greg parker wrote:We all know now the type of information the likes of Norman, Jarman and Shield had because of their HSCA interviews.

But it looks very much like Norman at least, may have given that same info to the WC -- but it was taken "off the record"

Mr. McCLOY. You testified that you had not seen Oswald except this one occasion in the morning. Did you hear any of your friends or coworkers say whether they had seen Oswald on that morning? 
Mr. NORMAN. Not until after 
Mr. McCLOY. After the assassination? 
Mr. NORMAN. Yes, sir; that is the only time. 
Mr. BALL. Off the record. 
(Discussion off the record.) 
The CHAIRMAN. Did you see Brennan down there when you came downstairs? Did you come out the front door? 


What did Norman say  about Oswald's movements that we weren't allowed to hear?
I think Warren gives us a major clue as to what was being discussed. They went from talking about Oswald sightings that morning before going off the record to discussing seeing Brennan outside post-assassination. That is a major hint that this was about Oswald leaving the building.


Spot on!
I was thinking about this,
I was thinking Buell said Lee waited for him to charge the battery, so Lee is near the car.
Not hard to spot with his HUGE lunch sack.
Lee is still close when Buell gets out and starts walking.
Lee a small lead.

So how at this point could Lee not hear a shout of:
Hey Where's Your Rider?
Or Buell shouting back?

Hmm Buell no bueno?

This thread is hawt
Ed
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 1:25 pm

Stan Dane wrote:
Ed. Ledoux wrote:I find the whole mess a bunch a crap.
There was no COKE.
Lee drank Dr Pepper.
The bottle on the steps is a DP.
There were DP's left in the machine as Sawyer is drinking one out front!

We know the second floor lunchroom encounter is bullshit. Overwhelming direct and circumstantial evidence that it never happened. Beyond any reasonable doubt. Period.
 
With this established, what is the one thing, the one term, you always hear in discussions involving Oswald's movements in the 3 minutes following the assassination?
 
A Coke.
 
It is doctrine for both lone nutter and conspiracy theorists alike.
 
If your beverage of choice is Dr. Pepper—and it is available on the first floor—why go to the second floor to get a Coke?
 
The Coke fetish that most have is simply a supporting piece of the fiction—the preponderance of phony evidence—to show Oswald was in the second floor lunchroom 90 seconds after the shooting.
 
There was an empty Dr. Pepper bottle close to where Prayer Man was standing as seen in a photo following the assassination. Prayer Man seems to be holding something in his hand(s) in Wiegman. (Who else was seen drinking a soda pop during this time?)
 
When one lies, everything they say must be questioned. I question the Coke.
 
I agree, Ed. There was no Coke. How do I know this? Because most everybody talks about it, and as with the second floor lunchroom encounter, most everybody is wrong.
Their damn Coke Addiction has harmed many.
It's as if Nike needed to sponsor Lee to get him to Tippit crime scene,
and Coke sponsored Lee's dash from Sixth to Two!
You know why they went with the second floor bs, Dr Pepper wasn't red, and we all know
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Stan Dane on Thu 29 Jun 2017, 3:32 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:
greg parker wrote:The curtain rod story never made sense to me.  
There is your first clue
Who was supplying the curtains to put on the rods?
The Curtain Fairy, whom else?
Supposedly Marina and Buell tried to pass this stone along

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 2:10 pm

Hahaha

Linnie Mae did have a day job!
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 2:55 pm

Buell and the gun shaped package?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3326233/I-drove-Lee-Harvey-Oswald-book-depository-don-t-believe-shot-JFK-52-years-assassination-Oswald-s-friend-says-convinced-patsy-real-gunman-grassy-knoll.html

Buell's evidence that Oswald walked into work with a package the same shape as a rifle was deemed as crucial


Interesting rifle shaped curtain rods?
That Curtain Fairy is resourceful!~Ed
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:10 pm

Buell Wesley Frazier was on an upper floor of the Texas School Book Depository filing orders when he sprinted down the staircase shortly before 12:30 p.m. to get a glimpse of the first couple.

http://www.richmond.com/news/special-report/jfk/they-were-there-memories-of-a-dark-day-in-dallas/article_5053dc5c-9685-5dfb-b06e-9b0f160b67ac.html
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:16 pm

MR. FRAZIER -- "Well, yes, sir. .... I worked in a department store
before and I had uncrated curtain rods when they come in, and I know if you have seen when they come straight from the factory, you know how they can bundle them up and put them in there pretty compact
, so
he told me it was curtain rods, so I didn't think any more about the
package whatsoever."
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 3:33 pm

James R. Foliard on The Buell and The Bag

2. "Cooking" The Evidence
Nearly 50 pages later, Posner discusses the single Oswald fingerprint and the single Oswald palmprint that the FBI found on the "sniper's nest bag" - prints not found by the Dallas police. Remember Linnie Randle asking Ball which end was the bottom of the package? And Ball's remarkable statement that he wasn't sure? All the more remarkable because the Warren Commission concluded that the palmprint was at the bottom of the bag, which, according to Posner, "concurred with how Buell Frazier and his sister, Linnie Mae Randle, testified he carried the package." (p. 272;) Of course, Mrs. Randle did not testify to this method of carrying the bag. And of course Posner made absolutely no allusion to this testimony of Frazier - alone - in his earlier, principal discussion of the Randle-Frazier evidence on pp. 224-225. There he distorted testimony by conflating it, combining elements of two seperate accounts into one. Frazier's "armpit" combined with Randle's package "not far from the ground" allows him to posit a package plenty long enough to accommodate a rifle, and to claim the testimony of two witnesses in its support. Now on page 272, Posner distorts by ommission: not a word about an armpit, and specifically how Frazier alone saw Oswald with one end of the bag tucked under his armpit, the other end held by his right hand. Having made his main point on pp. 224-225 about the length of the bag, Posner qualifies the point 47 pages later. On a "technicality," Posner could claim to be complete and accurate. After all, he has mentioned both methods used to carry the bag. And both witnesses did say Oswald gripped the bag in his right hand! Posner's distortions may not necessarily be deliberate, but only the result of slipshod methods and/or unfamiliarity with the issues and evidence. No matter: the book simply abounds with similar attempts to "have it both ways." Examples:
*On page 225, the unqualified assertion that "The FBI discovered the bag contained microscopic fibers from the blanket with which Oswald kept his rifle wrapped in the Paine garage." Case closed? Flip to p. 272, where we find that the fibers "were too common to be linked exclusively to that blanket."
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Fri 30 Jun 2017, 5:11 pm

JArman reads paper, assumes motorcade will be by about 12:15

Jarman stated that he was standing outside “until about 12:20, between 12:20 and 12:25”.

Jarman waits till the very time the parade is due by to go back inside?
If you got off early at 11:45 you would need to be back at work at 12:30
...back in the building by 12:30


Givens is directly asked about seeing Lee at 11:50 reading a paper in the domino room, which Givens of course denies he ever said that...
The idea is it was 7:50am and he would be reading yesterdays paper.
Can't have that either as Lee would need that ride from Bill.

But Givens was pretty clear he came down washed and was walking about the first floor getting ready to go out.
Not getting ready to go to work by washing up...
So its more likely Lee was doing what Shelley was doing, starting lunch break, as witnessed by Givens

http://bookoflife.org/images/2013/jfk_oswaldalibi_cd5_329.gif
Billy Lovelady thought he saw Oswald there around 11:50 (WCD 5 p. 332)

Why is Billy knocking off early?

Again the lunch period is 12 noon.
Why is it everything points to an approximate 11:45 time for that days lunch break.

Buell needs to translate again for us.
As how is it that 11:45 or 11:50 means 12 noon in his language as an Old Texas Boy

And about the fingerprints on the sack,
I saw this page with the fingerprint details and an unconnected picture of Lee passing out flyers. I thought there was something odd about Lee's grip. I highlighted in yellow the pertinent parts.
What do you think?






Is that how these strange prints are on there, they showed it to him and he handed it back?
Or made the sack from paper they knew he had touched.
Maybe when you put a new roll on the wrapping table dispenser you need to get the tape and paper started so you rip the first few feet off.

Grab paper from a roll of paper and grip it.
Ahha you would leave a print of both your index fingers (thumb side) and both thumbs, or with an odd grip the thumbs don't do the gripping but index finger and palm do.

Thanks for looking! Ed
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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