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Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Mon 19 Dec 2016, 7:53 pm

alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by alan on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 6:09 am

Paul Francisco Paso wrote:
alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
The very existence of Prayer Man images shows the risk involved in relying on intimidation, killing and alteration of the statements of witnesses etc.  It can come go tits up if non-witness hard evidence like Prayer Man images emerge.  It was an obvious risk when you consider how many cameras might be flashing at a slow turn like that and it may be impossible to control a situation like that with a large moving crowd involved.  Dont get me wrong.   I do believe PM is LHO.  I just find it hard to believe they planned from the beginning to frame LHO relying only on intimidation and murder and therefore didnt give a damn if he was out front standing in front of loads of cameras.  And if I am wrong and that is exactly what they did then it certainly doesnt have the feel of an intelligence operation masterpiece and therefore might have implications on just who organised the framing (Keystone Cops?).  

I almost wonder sometimes why they just didnt leave it at 'the gunman got away' but planted evidence to implicate Cuba or whatever group they wanted to frame rather than introduce the huge complication of a live patsy.  

Another thing that has been speculated is something went wrong and Oswald was meant to die in the building. I certainly can believe that. However, if he was meant to be rubbed out in the building then LHO's location and movements during and just after the assassination made that impossible to do without it looking blatant.  I even wonder if LHO positioning himself at the door and not going deep into the bowls of the building afterwards is indicative that he twigged to the possibility he might be a Patsy and might be rubbed out if he gave an opportunity for that to happen.  His leaving of the building may been a similar self preservation move by LHO as did his behavour in the Cinema.  IMO his behavour in the cinema shows he knew he was a patsy already then and I suspect he knew it the minute he knew JFK had been killed.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Paul Francisco Paso on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 8:09 am

alan wrote:
Paul Francisco Paso wrote:
alan wrote:Paul - I agree that no shots ever needed to come from the TSBD. That would still be the case in a shoot to miss scenario whereby the nest was set up to look like that of a shoot to miss person. I still feel the nest looks like it was set up to look like that of an incompetent nut.  its almost like it was made to fit a lone nutter scenario BUT not one who made a successful assassination.  The nest, gun etc would be perfect to frame a nutcase who missed.  It looks like a nutters nest rather than a pro assassin's. Problem is JFK was assassinated and pinning that on an assassin from that nest, with that rifle, with that scope is not convincing. So i just wonder if it was originally set up to frame someone for killing JFK or was it set up to look like the nest of a lone nut who missed? It works far better for the latter than the former.  

Another mystery to me is why, if they had people in the building willing and able to set up the nest, and perhaps had the boss on board with the framing of a patsy, did they not find a pretext for sending LHO to the correct floors at the time of the assassination. All I can guess about that s perhaps the delay in the motorcade messed up the plan to get Oswald up there and detain him???
There were at least 3 rifles in the TSBD that day IMO. The Carcano, the Mauser and the Enfield 303 (probably Fraziers hence him being threatened).That's 3 patsies right there. They went with Oswald. I agree with Greg. Minimum risk if you have options. As far as I am also concerned Prayer Man is Oswald out on the steps of the TSBD. Did it end up mattering? No one vouched for him and he said he didn't shoot anyone so after they framed him they killed him and his alibi while custody. What's Frazier going to say after he drove him to work supposedly and reports of an Enfield 303 are coming out the same type of rifle he owns? The others don't know who PM is  even though there are reports that Oswald was hanging around the first floor. The FBI panicked when they saw Altgens 6. They knew Oswald was a possibility. The tired story of someone would have vouched for him is utter crap. No one in their right mind would dare refute the official investigation/ cover up while it was going on and sanctioned especially after they shot him in a police station. No pretext needed after that. This is just speculation on my part but you cannot ignore the intimidation factor when it comes to witnesses. They had their man and that was it.
The very existence of Prayer Man images shows the risk involved in relying on intimidation, killing and alteration of the statements of witnesses etc.  It can come go tits up if non-witness hard evidence like Prayer Man images emerge.  It was an obvious risk when you consider how many cameras might be flashing at a slow turn like that and it may be impossible to control a situation like that with a large moving crowd involved.  Dont get me wrong.   I do believe PM is LHO.  I just find it hard to believe they planned from the beginning to frame LHO relying only on intimidation and murder and therefore didnt give a damn if he was out front standing in front of loads of cameras.  And if I am wrong and that is exactly what they did then it certainly doesnt have the feel of an intelligence operation masterpiece and therefore might have implications on just who organised the framing (Keystone Cops?).  

I almost wonder sometimes why they just didnt leave it at 'the gunman got away' but planted evidence to implicate Cuba or whatever group they wanted to frame rather than introduce the huge complication of a live patsy.  

Another thing that has been speculated is something went wrong and Oswald was meant to die in the building. I certainly can believe that. However, if he was meant to be rubbed out in the building then LHO's location and movements during and just after the assassination made that impossible to do without it looking blatant.  I even wonder if LHO positioning himself at the door and not going deep into the bowls of the building afterwards is indicative that he twigged to the possibility he might be a Patsy and might be rubbed out if he gave an opportunity for that to happen.  His leaving of the building may been a similar self preservation move by LHO as did his behavour in the Cinema.  IMO his behavour in the cinema shows he knew he was a patsy already then and I suspect he knew it the minute he knew JFK had been killed.
Alan please stick around this forum because your observations are incredibly sound and very well thought out. You belong here bro and we need more of your kind. Yes it could have gone belly up like you said and Prayer Man is a classic example. Most cameras were shooting the motorcade and most were confiscated so that could be easily maintained back in those days and probably was. The risk was minimized in the case of Oswald by eliminating him and his obvious alibi. Witnesses were intimidated and threatened especially Frazier. One only has to see what he thinks of Fritz and his tactics he used on him to this day. It may have panned out a different way if things didn't go right but it ultimately did and we have 53 years of proof that it worked. I firmly believe they would have made some more shit up if they had to. Even as far as involving someone else they had up their sleeve and that could've been Frazier. I agree 100% with you that Oswald was probably meant to be shot earlier and hung around too long. He might have saved his hide initially with his intuition especially at the cinema but he was a dead man walking when they transferred him. The rest was just building a case against him. Henry Wade's history should tell us these guys were experts in that and with the FBI involved with the evidence side of things this was going to be covered up any which way. The Cuba angle didn't do much other than distract. IMO this was a Dallas thing. Intelligence may have had nothing to do with any of this but fuck if they were going to admit any knowledge of Oswald. After JFK was shot the most efficient thing to do was comply with the clean up and cover up. Contain as much as they could. No way was it in the nations best interest to delve any deeper. They took the murder scene and the body to Washington and dealt with it there. Don't forget the DPD wasn't even reprimanded for anything that happened. The WC did what they had to do. Try to convince the public this was a lone gunman who was a dirty commie. It became official.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by greg parker on Thu 22 Dec 2016, 8:55 am

Just a few quick things:

in my third book I will be showing that he was meant to be killed in the theater for a very specific reason.

In the 60s, police around the world were still pretty much a law unto themselves - some jurisdictions more so than others and though modern methods were slowly being introduced, cops  were still unsophisticated on the ground. How many times in the 1960s did anyone get exonerated on the grounds of police incompetence or corrupt practices? Rarely if ever happened anywhere - yet incompetence and corruption were rife. 

I can remember as a kid in Sydney (late 60s) seeing graffiti everywhere "Stop police verbals!" At that time, all cops here had to do was testify that the accused stated blah blah blah..." and it was game over. That evidence was accepted because you know, it's the cops word vs the criminal...


http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%20%2010.%20Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99 wrote:10.16 The joint majority judgment in Kelly (Gleeson CJ, Hayne and Heydon JJ) took a narrow view of the term ‘in the course of official questioning’. They accepted that the object of the section is to overcome ‘the “perceived problems” with the so-called police “verbal”’, including the possibility of fabrication of evidence by police, especially alleged admissions that are uncorroborated and which the accused would have the practical burden of disproving.[url=http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/ 10. Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99#_ftn28][28][/url] However, the majority held that the ‘purpose or object’ of a section does not compel any particular construction. Rather, the correct construction depends on the ‘quite detailed language’ used in the Act.[url=http://www.alrc.gov.au/publications/ 10. Admissions/meaning-%E2%80%98-course-official-questioning%E2%80%99#_ftn29][29][/url]
Which is exactly what happened with Oswald. He was "verbaled" then killed so he couldn't disprove anything. Usually killing the accused was unnecessary because the whole legal system was keyed in to these practices and in Dallas, 90% of criminal defense lawyers were were in Wade's pocket. But of course, they had the whole world watching... and waiting for the trial. There was no way they could allow it.

We can't look at this through millennial eyes. That era was a whole different ball game. 

Another thing to keep in mind: the intelligence, political and organizational connections within the DPD.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 8:11 pm

Can someone refresh my failing memory. Would it be fair to say Dougherty is unaccounted for during the assassination, and would Piper be another. I am so sorry if I've got this horribly wrong just checking for a fast track on this.Obviously we can account for Lee O. JD as near as I can tell has no real alibi during the shots...not sure about Piper...anyone else??
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by greg parker on Wed 01 Feb 2017, 8:40 pm

Mick,

One of the early reports had a porter (in some versions, janitor) escorting Oswald to the 6th floor and then going back down to the 1st floor to watch the parade.

The FBI rightly zeroed in on Piper. He was the only janitor and his story was that he watched the motorcade from a 1st floor window. Moreover, he stated he had a brief chat with Oswald at lunchtime and claimed Oswald said he was going up or out (piper couldn't recall which) to eat. 

Piper also fit the description of Rowland's "elderly Negro" on the 6th floor and  had 3 different versions of his talk with Oswald -- one around 10, one around noon and in the last version, it was both.

Without going into all the details here, I think the conversation was at 10 and included Jarman and Norman and had to do with where they would watch the parade.

Jarman, Norman and Williams went to the 5th.

Dougherty testified he had lunch with Piper in the Domino room. I believe they both then went to the 6th.

I think Dougherty was who Rowland saw standing at "port arms". Dougherty's testimony as vague as it was about his movements that day, was sharp as a tack in recalling the exact number of years, months and days he was in the army. That and another piece of his testimony clearly shows he was somewhat fixated on the military.

I am reasonably certain up to this point. Somewhat less certain about what follows but I think it is possible he (Dougherty) spent time up there helping to frame Oswald, and may have even fired a shot from up there - a deliberate miss. If he did have some "issues" socially, developmentally or psychologically, he may have easily been duped into doing all of that as a joke on Oswald.

Whatever Piper witnessed up there I think made him run down to the first floor to where West was stationed.

_________________
Mixing Pop and Politics he asks me what the use is
I offer him embarrassment and my usual excuses
While looking down the corridor
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I'm looking for the Great Leap Forward

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 Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
             Lachie Hulme            
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              Me

“God favors drunks, small children, and the cataclysmically stoned...” Steve King
"The worst thing about some men is that when they are not drunk they are sober." Billy Yeats
"You're not drunk if you can lie on the floor without holding on." Dino Martin



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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 02 Feb 2017, 12:45 pm

Thanks Greg.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 02 Feb 2017, 5:33 pm

I'm planning on condensiing this topic and trying to give it a timeline, a more concise streamlined version.

I'll be back!

Thanks to some sterling work here recently, I believe more than ever that Wesley and JD may have conspired to frame Oswald by the end of that Friday, and just maybe they were unwitting stand-by patsy's too, waiting in the wings.

And as Ed has said Wes could still give us an accurate description of JD and he should be pressed in the most rigorous way to tell us who the person is standing next to him on the steps of the TSBD immediately after the shots rang out....he has all but let us know in the past with his telling us who that person in the Darnell frame is not.

JD had keys to the back entrance door, he had access to all areas, he had ample opportunity to enter the building before others had arrived that morning, and I still believe Wes arrived alone at the TSBD that morning. Its not beyond the realms that JD and BWF met one another early on Friday at the warehouse. (imo)
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 1:24 pm

We also know from the HSCA interviews of Shields and Jarman that it was thought that Oswald rode to work every day with Frazier.

Here is Jarman:

Maxwell: Did he associate with any particular person there?


Jarman: No one but -- I can't think of the dude's name, the one that brings - that brought him to work all the time. 
---------------
Maxwell: And you didn't see him [Oswald] anymore after that?


Jarman: No. And the dude he used to ride with Wesley -- I can't think of his name.


Maxwell: Does he still work in the book department [sic]? 


Jarman: Wesley, no. I don't think he's here now --


Maxwell: Did they come to work there together?



Jarman: Yes, he always brought Oswald to work.



Credit G. Parker


This along with Sheilds HSCA Interview supports the notion that Oswald did travel to work every day with BWF, and we know that has far reaching implications in many aspects of this case.


And we now know thanks to Shanklin's report that Lee was in the DR at or about 7.45-7.50am and we know thanks to Sheilds that Wes arrived just after 8.00am. This IMO eliminates the possibility of Wes dropping Oswald at the TSBD door as he claimed and then parking his car as described by Sheilds HSCA interview.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Ed. Ledoux on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 1:47 pm

"And we now know thanks to Shanklin's report that Lee was in the "Domino Room" at or about 7.45-7.50am and we know thanks to Sheilds that Wes arrived just after 8.00am. This IMO eliminates the possibility of Wes dropping Oswald at the TSBD door as he claimed and then parking his car as described by Sheilds HSCA interview."


Wes could have dropped Lee off.

Lee would walk into the TSBD and kill a minute while Wes...
parked way down at the other warehouse's lot,
watched trains,
ran his motor,
charged his battery,
watched more trains,
then sauntered in the back door about 8am.

Sounds like a good ten minutes,
... and Molina opened the front about then too?

Cheers, Ed
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 2:20 pm

Ed. Ledoux wrote:"And we now know thanks to Shanklin's report that Lee was in the "Domino Room" at or about 7.45-7.50am and we know thanks to Sheilds that Wes arrived just after 8.00am. This IMO eliminates the possibility of Wes dropping Oswald at the TSBD door as he claimed and then parking his car as described by Sheilds HSCA interview."


Wes could have dropped Lee off.

Lee would walk into the TSBD and kill a minute while Wes...
parked way down at the other warehouse's lot,
watched trains,
ran his motor,
charged his battery,
watched more trains,
then sauntered in the back door about 8am.

Sounds like a good ten minutes,
... and Molina opened the front about then too?

Cheers, Ed
Hahah.

cheers Ed
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 05 Feb 2017, 5:01 pm

Wesley Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle are not victims in the JFK case IMO.

They were participants.


Maybe this explains Fraziers behaviour over the years.



My version of Wesley's day would be something like this:










Wes makes a sack at home either with or without Linnies knowledge.
Couldn't do it at work could he?


Probably Thursday night.


Lee waits for his ride at the Paines house as per usual Friday morning sometime around 7.15-7.20am and Randle W collects him and takes him in to the TSBD telling him Wes is running late.


Wes heads off at about 7.40-7.45 am. with a brown paper sack.


Lee is dropped off at or near the rear entrance of the TSBD by Bill Randle


Lee is witnessed by JD at the rear entrance and Givens in the Domino room around 7.45am.




Sheilds and Givens sights Frazier on his own at 8.05 in the parking lot near Houston Nth warehouse
telling them after being asked where his rider was , that he has dropped him off at the building.


Frazier walks into the TSBD rear entrance at around 8.10am with the hidden sack on his person.


He will give this sack to JD to plant on the fifth just before the assassination takes place.


Moments after planting the sack, JD will go from the fifth to the sixth and plant the throwdown MC rifle which Piper witnesses and runs from the scene.


JD and Wes will cross paths post assassination, this will be covered up by JD testifying he is running around looking for Truly and Wes will tell authorities he was down in the basement eating lunch.


Once Wes has confirmation from JD that the sack has been left in place on the fifth floor he drives to meet with Linnie to let her know jobs done.




Randle tells Wesley to lay low, knowing he will be a person of interest with the police as soon as she divulges the sack story to them.



Randle drives to the Paines house to drop the dime on Lee and gives police false information regarding Wes's whereabouts
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 06 Feb 2017, 11:27 am

JD should be considered a candidate for planting evidence on the sixth floor IMO


Credit G. Parker


He is mentally retarded and has difficulty in remembering facts, such as dates, times, places, and has been especially confused since the assassination.




Let's try and verify the memory problems through his testimony:

Mr. BALL - How long were you in the service?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - 2 years, 1 month, 17 days, to be exact.


"To be exact". Nothing wrong with long term memory, anyhow...

He served his time in Seymour, Indiana while his peers were used as cannon fodder in Europe and elsewhere.

Mr. BALL - Did you ever leave the United States during the War?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, yes.
Mr. BALL - Where did you go?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I was stationed, oh, for about a year up in Indiana up there---Seymour, Ind.
Mr. BALL - Then where did you go from there in the service? 
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Well, I stayed there until I got discharged. 
Mr. BALL - You didn't ever go outside the country to Europe?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Oh, no.
Mr. BALL - Or to the South Seas?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - No.
Mr. BALL - You stayed in this country all the time?
Mr. DOUGHERTY - Yes.

Was there anything about Seymour, Indiana that might be of interest here?

How about this?
SEYMOUR, Ind.  (WDRB) -- Searchers in Seymour, Indiana, look underground for some of the secrets of World War II -- Nazi secrets, to be precise.

The Allies shipped Nazi planes to Freeman Field so pilots and engineers could fly them, take them apart, and put them back together again.

What they learned was important, because American planes weren't as advanced.

What happened to those planes after the war is still a mystery.
 http://www.wdrb.com/story/17041764/nazi-secrets-wwii-planes-buried-under-seymour-ind-airport

I think Jack was pretty good at keeping secrets.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Sun 12 Feb 2017, 11:25 am

HSCA: Okay, alright. If it showed two figures in that doorway at the same time, and you could positively identify one as yourself, would that have any bearing on your identification of that other figure?
LOVELADY: No, that’s still me at the left [of the] doorway.










Albert Rossi on Tue 30 Sep 2014 said:
 
    Hi all. I was at the AARC. I figured I might as well try it again, so I approached Buell with the
    Robin Unger enhancement of the Darnell frame on my laptop desktop, and asked him
    

    1. if that was him
    

    2. who the other figure was.
    

    He admitted 1. was him.
    

    He said 2. was not clear enough for certain identification, but it probably wasn't Lovelady
    because by that time he had taken off with Shelley for the RR yard.
 


    and:




    I first asked him if he could identify
    Prayer Man, and while he was mulling it over, I said to him, pointing
    to his image, 



    "By the way, Mr. Frazier, is that you?" To that he
    responded, "very probably ... look at the hairline." So yes, he seemed
    to be in a more forthcoming mood at that point.
    When he was answering questions after his talk (he repeatedly got choked
    up as if withholding tears as he spoke of the events of that day)





    It seems Wesley has indirectly supplied us with the answer as to who PM is.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Vinny on Wed 15 Feb 2017, 11:50 pm

It seems Wesley has indirectly supplied us with the answer as to who PM is.

Exactly.He stated it was likely not Lovelady. Lovelady resembled Oswald.So he seems to be basically saying that it is not Lovelady,it is the guy who resembles him.The guy named Oswald.Wink wink,nudge nudge.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 20 Feb 2017, 1:57 pm

I wonder if it’s a worthwhile exercise in trying to re-evaluate Key persons involved in the investigation of the JFK Assassination, re-examining their voice stress levels using the latest PSE Technology available. This IMO should include Frazier and Randle.
It should also include key law enforcement officials whom have long been suspected of lying to aid in the framing of Lee Harvey Oswald.
We have the material available, we know whom to target for evaluation. It’s a matter of establishing whether the latest technology is deemed to produce accurate results.
The following links suggest PSE is worthy of consideration.
 
Dektor Corporation.
PSE v Polygraph
 
http://www.dektorpse.com/information/pse-vs-polygraph/
 
Penthouse News release 1975 March 10
 
[url=http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/O Disk/O'Toole George Press Kit/Item 07.pdf]http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg%20Subject%20Index%20Files/O%20Disk/O'Toole%20George%20Press%20Kit/Item%2007.pdf[/url]
 
 
Independent Analysis of Dektor’s PSE technology.
 
http://www.experts.com/Articles/PSE-and-Voice-Stress-Analysis-for-Lie-Detection-By-Michael-Gervais
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 06 Mar 2017, 9:02 am

Stan Dane:




BWF was shown the Darnell Prayer Man frame for the first time in 2013 by Gary Mack. Gary Mack responded:
 
"While the image is an interesting find, the Prayer Man question has probably been answered.  I recently sent the Couch and Darnell frames to Buell Frazier and asked what he thought.  First, he wouldn’t confirm himself being on the top step because the image isn’t clear enough.  He then re-confirmed that Lovelady and Shelley were out on the steps with him, just as he has always said, but he couldn’t confirm Shelley, either, due to the image quality. 
 
"Next I asked about Shelley’s appearance and learned he was a little taller than Lovelady (who was 5’8”), had red hair and a slender build.  When I asked if Shelley usually wore a coat and tie to work Buell said no, he 'dressed daily in slacks and sport shirts.'  And he repeated that he, Lovelady and Shelley stayed on the steps for 'a short time' after the last shot, but he didn’t estimate how long.
 
"So unless Buell Frazier is still part of the cover-up plot, TSBD 'Miscellaneous Department' manager William Shelley, by elimination, must be Prayer Man.  According to Shelley’s testimony, 'I didn’t do anything for a minute' following the last shot, so the man was standing on the steps before, during and after the time Darnell and Couch filmed those brief scenes."
 
Sean Murphy responded:
 
"This is a real breakthrough, and I for one am very grateful to Gary for taking the trouble to contact Buell Wesley Frazier.
 
"Why is it a breakthrough?
 
"Well, not because of the Shelley idea. For Shelley's own testimony, and that of the person with him Billy Lovelady, rules him out as Prayer Man:
 
Mr. BALL - How did you happen to see Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - We ran out on the island while some of the people that were out watching it from our building were walking back and we turned around and we saw an officer and Truly.
Mr. BALL - And Truly?
Mr. SHELLEY - Yes.
Mr. BALL - Did you see them go into the building?
MMr. SHELLEY - No; we didn't watch that long but they were at the first step like they were fixin' to go in.
Mr. BALL - Were they moving at the time, walking or running?
Mr. SHELLEY - Well, they were moving, yes.
 
"Darnell shows Baker just a couple of seconds away from the building entrance. Prayer Man is still standing up on the steps. So Shelley is ruled out. Period. (Unless, that is, someone wants to accuse him and Lovelady of lying in their WC testimony about their run out on to the 'island'. Who wants to go first?)
 
"The reason Buell Wesley Frazier's response is a breakthrough is that Bill Shelley appears to be the only possibility BWF himself can offer when presented with the Prayer Man image. (Although it's not quite clear from Gary's message whether BWF himself nominated Shelley or whether that's Gary's own suggestion.) 

"Given that he is not giving us some new revelation as to the presence of some hitherto unmentioned other person on the steps at that time (i.e. a stranger to the building), and given that Prayer Man cannot possibly be Shelley, we have just received startling confirmation that Prayer Man can only reasonably be Lee Oswald.
 
"BWF probably knows it's Lee but--for the most understandable reasons in the world--cannot say so.
However, to give him credit, he's just done the next best thing."

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=20354&page=52
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by barto on Sun 12 Mar 2017, 4:41 pm


_________________
Winner of the DPUK Annual Achievement Award 2017.
Winner of the JFK Lancer New Frontier Award 2016.

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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Mon 13 Mar 2017, 10:36 pm

Is it so wrong to feel smug. With a tinge of satisfaction.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Wed 22 Mar 2017, 9:48 am

Thanks Barto
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 12:21 pm

A file exists in the National Archives and generated with the Identifying number 836101 titled Buell Wesley Frazier's Polygraph.
There is a restriction on this file.


Privacy?

National Security?


[url=https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley buell frazier][url=https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley buell frazier[/url]]https://research.archives.gov/id/836101?q=wesley%20buell%20frazier[/url][/url]
 
 
 

Access Restriction(s):
[size]

Restricted - Possibly
Specific Access Restriction: John F. Kennedy Assassination Records Collection Act
Note: Some materials may have been withdrawn for reasons of personal privacy or national security.

(Emphasis Mine)
[/size]
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 23 Mar 2017, 12:35 pm

For anyone believing Frazier has somehow pleaded Oswalds innocence over the years , you might wish to have a rethink.

Credit Bart: The Lone Gunman Podcast

https://www.spreaker.com/user/thelonegunman/ep-137-clark-on-ochelli-on-frazier

Listen: Timecode- 87.55 through to 88.20

When you're listening to this sound grab, remember there was never any curtain rods, never any large paper sack, and never any rifle in Oswald's possession. And we now know who was standing next to Frazier immediately after the shots rang out on the steps of the TSBD.





If you can spare the time listen to the podcast in full. Fascinating stuff!



Personally I think Frazier was way more involved that anyone has credited him with. That's just me.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Mick Purdy on Thu 18 May 2017, 10:59 pm

A file exists in the National Archives and generated with the Identifying number 836101 titled Buell Wesley Frazier's Polygraph.


I have requested the release of this file in full. This was done about 6 weeks ago.


I have not had a response from NARA.


I will re-apply.
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

Post by Stan Dane on Fri 26 May 2017, 3:26 pm

This is an overview of Mick's work as introduced in this thread. Any errors are mine.
 
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Re: Buell Wesley Frazier: "Where’s your Rider?" Part B

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