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alex_wilson
Posts : 909
Join date : 2019-04-10

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Sun 02 May 2021, 2:41 am
Inspired by Jeremy B...

To make up for Jimbo Baggins and Fezzo the Fez's extended sabbaticals from the fast paced world of internet troofing, and to provide a little much needed light relief, to give the old little grey cells a break too...after the usual high octane cerebral cogitating and the quite frankly mind bending disclosures(  who would have thunk a line in Dylan's " I Contain Multitudes" actually referred to the " vampirising' of " Mozart's Vortex"?...did you know that the vortex in question was actually taken from Vienna to America by Gustav Mahler? Presumably stashed away in his suitcase beneath his underwear)...the stalwarts of the Everything is Fake Gang have re emerged..

To provide a much needed comic antidote to the weightier issues our cranially enhanced chums are, as always,   wrestling tirelessly with...( was the 17 year old George W Bush photographed ambling thru Dealey Plaza? Was JFK killed to stop him revealing the truth about the " Alien Presence"? Is there some dastardly deep state plot linking the deaths of JFK, LOH( sic) and Brian Sicknick?.... and most importantly will Vince Palamara be mentioned in an upcoming book on the Secret Service? The latter has had me in a frenzy!!!!Consulting Tarot hotlines,  Facebook psychics, bloodily hacking and eviscerating poultry to peer at their entrails)

But as usual, just when things were getting interesting, just when the Pythagoras of Clinical Paranoids himself, John Butler, linked us to none other than Larry Rivera's website ( aptly titled " Merdeist!!" Parlez vous francais, M Rivera?) and the site of the flagship historical research podcast " the New JFK Show" ( a safely padded romper room where elderly and " intellectually challenged ( cough cough)" " researchers" can play, have fun and ring their " jew bell" without harming themselves)... Jeremy B, spoil sport that he is, has to show up and ruin it all with logic, common sense and rational thinking!!!

What is it with these characters? Squinting at blurry pixelated internet reproductions ( Armstrong alone knows how many generations removed from the original) of 60 year old home movies or still photographs, fixating on any apparent " anomalies" and claiming they prove " alteration"

According to these clowns practically all the films and photos have been tampered with, or somehow forged...

What makes it even more bizarre and nonsensical none of these self anointed experts seem to have any real knowledge or real world professional ( even amateur) experience dealing with film. None evince even the slightest technical competence

It's exactly like someone attempting to review a book written in a language they don't speak...

How could films  the big bad evil gub'mint never watched, nor indeed physically possessed , have possibly been altered?

The idea of seamlessly faking all these films and photos strikes me as bizarre.... Each film congruent with the others... using early 60s technology? Why? What purpose could it possibly serve? How is the Lone Nut lie strengthened by turning boys into girls? Changing the colour of some hapless bystanders shoes? Or transforming Mrs Frantzen into a 8 foot giant?

It's conspiracing for the sake of conspiracy...it doesn't need to make any sense....

Has there ever been a more worthless advocate for rational criticism than David Healy? His sole contribution has been spraying streams of mindless non sequiturs the way he sprays streams of piss down the peeling wall of his bedroom hovel after a binge...or accusing anyone who doesn't agree with his warped understanding of conspiracy of being " lone neuter trolls" or variations thereof...

How could the Muchmore film, bought sight unseen by a TV company and broadcast that very fucking day have possibly been tampered with?

None of the arguments make any sense whatsoever...why go to the trouble of faking ( or according to the more extreme believers fabricating the entire fucking thing) the Zapruder film only to leave the " back and to the left" sequence in. Probably the single most compelling visual representation of conspiracy. The arguments offered have been counter intuitive..." Oh they wanted to take out the limo stop"... Take out the limo stop but leave JFK being hurled back with some considerable force? See his skull exploding from an obvious frontal shot??? It makes absolutely zero sense...then there's the technical arguments...ok even if the government possessed advanced technology, say 15 years advanced, that still leaves us in the late 70s...

Alteration is an utter dead end, a complete waste of time. What has it achieved? 

Fuck all... Except causing much rancour and exposing all rational critics to scorn...

The Altgens 6 claim is quite frankly utter  lunacy...

The militant " alterationists" who peddle this brain dead dross expect people to believe that someone in Dealey Plaza was somehow able to anticipate Ike Altgens line of sight, and knowing what the potential patsy looked like, was somehow able to traduce, threaten or bribe the photographer, rustle up a suitable headshot of Billy for immediate Loveladyfying...find a suitable lab.etc etc etc all within half an hour!!!!

Jeremy is the first one i've noticed whose really honed in on the sheer mind scrambling doltage of the central claim.... replace  Oswald's face with someone who looked so much alike him he was mistaken for Oswald!!!!

I can almost hear the faint warblings of the " we know the truth" choir...admonishing the unenlightened for not grasping the whole devilish  complexity... But the above isn't an example of conspiritorial machinations at their most divinely insidious... it's an example of fucking stupidity...

With conspirators of that intellectual calibre JFK would have lived until 96... dying of apoplexy betwixt the golden thighs of some Vegas showgirl...

In honour of Jeremy B, whose postings are an absolute masterclass in deconstructing pompous windbags , paranoid goofballs and their assorted enablers, and in wry salutation to Paul Rigby, the corpulent puce faced court jester of the Conspiratocracy...a man with the edgy wit of Dick Emery, the gravitas of Benny Hill and an intellectual style that conjures up grotesque images of an alchemical wedding between Peter Lemkin and Pee Wee Hermann...one dark and stormy night in a dank cobblestoned Prague alleyway...

I give you a ROKCified version of the satire that was plagiarized by the Okhrana and turned into one of the Korans of the Konspiratocracy...

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion( quite fitting in many respects...a genuine hoax that has bamboozled earnest conspiracists who believe everything BUT this is a hoax .) 

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll...

ACT ONE 

Scene- An oppressively claustrophobic Texas night...hot, clammy and close...timid moonbeams just managing to slip through the dense shroud of low hanging clouds...far to the east there's the flash of forked lightning and the dull rumble of distant thunder...

Jim Angleton, as gaunt and cadaverous as in life, is leaning against the picket fence, his pipe drooping from his lips, the puffs of acrid smoke curling lazily up , gripping the fence he peers over, down at the grassy knoll itself, perhaps thinking what orchids he would like to plant..as he gazes up at the brooding outline of the TSBD , a crooked sardonic grin creeps across his hollow features...perhaps he's savouring the memories, marvelling at his handiwork..or perhaps he's just thinking about what type of orchids he'd like to plant here...in memory of Jack...

With a thoughtful sigh he lets go of the fence, and tapping his pipe against it he stares up at the sky...an impressionistic melancholy blur , it frames the plaza, the familiar skyline, with an almost magisterial sense of loss, of loneliness...a sense of restless longing..as if the storm about to break will somehow relieve the stress of the storm thatst been brewing all these years...

Jim starts laughing, a low earthy cackle .it is drowned out by another peal of thunder ..then another..

Then by a voice..

A soft musical tenor..

" So this is it, this is America"

A small saturnine figure, swathed in black velvet, with a slim rapier suspended from his belt, steps out of the shadows cast by Lee Bower's watchtower..

To be continued...


Last edited by alex_wilson on Wed 05 May 2021, 2:01 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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alex_wilson
Posts : 909
Join date : 2019-04-10

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Mon 03 May 2021, 1:29 am
ACT ONE ( continued)

Glancing warily over at the looming silhouette of the TSBD, hovering over his shoulder like a hangman at his daughters wedding feast, and holding a silk hankerchief up to his nose, the newly materialised figure approaches Jim , who watches him glide towards him with an amused grin..

Jim " Watch out for the mud!! It gets everywhere"( wry chuckle) " or so I've been told"

Niccolo ( noticing the mud splashes on his elegant silk hose) " Fanculo!

Jim( squinting through the clouds of pipe smoke) " Edgar is that you? Why are you talking Italian? And what's with the funny clothes?... What have you been up to down there?"

Niccolo ( bemused) " Edgar? Chi e Edgar? Mi chiamo Niccolo, Niccolo Machiavelli, El Principe?"

Jim " Talk English man!( Looks over his shoulder) " They say the unquiet spirit of Senator McCarthy roams around these parts on stormy nights...if he hears you speaking Italian like that he'll think you're a commie spy and summon up the disembodied head of Roy Cohn..."( shudders)

Niccolo " Si, signori, I mean , yes, if you wish" Bowing deeply " I am Niccolo Machiavelli, the legendary author of The Prince. A timeless meditation on the gaining and the wielding of power"

Jim( testily) " Yes, yes I know that... I play Scrabble with Cesare Borgia and Ludovico Sforza... what are you, the celebrated Renaissance political commentator and author doing here? In Dallas? On the Grassy Knoll of all places?" ( Looks up at the sky..at the banks of menacing black clouds gathering above the Dal Tex building , the County Records Building and the Old Courthouse) " and on a night like this...all sorts of dark forces come out to play on nights like this" ( his skull like face suddenly breaks into a sinister Cheshire cat grin) " all sorts of gloomy phantoms rise up from their sleepless abodes to gather here ..in this most hallowed ground"

Niccolo ( sighs) " Poor Cesare!! He could have been the ideal Prince!! Bold, cunning, duplicitous, completely without shame or morals...but alas his tragic demise only confirmed my most critical maxim..."( clearing his throat, then with a dramatic flourish)" never rely upon the strength of others! The true prince should always build a firm base of his own!! It is absolutely essential!! Once his own father, the holy father Alexander VI died, and that cur Della Rovere moved against him...ah signori!! What use is a papal gonfalonerie without the backing of a living Pope? He is but dust in the wind...ah Cesare!! Last time I saw him he was wearing a great leather mask!! Half his face eaten away by syphilis!! And such a noble handsome face it once was!!! But to the business at hand!!! I have come here to see you Signor Angleton of course!!! To learn about the mystical art of assassination!! It was you was it not who arranged the murder of the most powerful man on earth? The President of this great country!! I find the parallels between JFK and my late lamented Cesare most instructive!! Both are sons of scheming immoral father's!! Rodrigo dies and Cesare falls...Old Guiseppe becomes incapacitated and within a couple of short years his son is blown away in the street...you had another arquebusier hidden up here, no? I wanted to test my hypothesis Signor Angleton.. for the true teacher never stops learning!"

End of Act One


Last edited by alex_wilson on Wed 05 May 2021, 9:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Vinny
Posts : 2262
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 05 May 2021, 2:07 am
Quite hilarious, Alex.

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Out With Bill Shelley In Front.
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alex_wilson
Posts : 909
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 05 May 2021, 3:23 am
Thanks Vinny. We're in the process of selling our old house and moving permanently down south, so things are a tad hectic. On top of that I've got a lot of work to do, hopefully Armstrong ( and the various Zionist Illuminati CIA Freemason Deep State minions , you should see our fucking street!!! With all the ice cream trucks it's like the 4th of July outside Jim Fetzer's house!!) permitting I'll be able to finish the last couple of acts tomorrow....

Seriously, reading some of the incoherent, slapdash rubbish that the self styled " alterationists" excrete, seemingly  under the  quite frankly bizarre misapprehension that this hackneyed gibberish somehow constitutes a logical, persuasive argument....I think ridicule is the only intellectually honest response...

It makes for demoralising reading. Paul Rigby, a man who seems to equate a Secret Service agent firing a chrome plated revolver, at point blank range , into the skull of the sitting President of the USA, on a relatively crowded public thoroughfare, in full view of Armstrong only knows how many cameras, in front of the First Lady, Governor and Mrs Connally with  what Marcus Aurelius termed " Rational Continuity", attempting to lecture people about Conspiracy!!!

David Healy, a man who has done more damage to the cause of rational criticism of the Warren Commission than a whole fleet of clown cars crammed full of lone neuter trolls, demanding people attempt to DISprove an argument he and his merry band of chronically paranoid pranksters have come nowhere near proving...in nigh on 30 fucking years... wasting everyone's time with a series of increasingly ridiculous " anomalies"...

The " Alterationists", along with their closely related kin, the doppelgoves, are perhaps the very embodiment of the failed notion of conspiracy " research". People who possess absolutely no technical expertise, Butler's crosseyed gibberish about " Billy Lovelady facemasks" is the equivalent of me turning up on a forum for nuclear physicists and claiming that a stick of fucking celery is a key component in a Hydrogen Bomb...

Their ignorance is forgiveable, their arrogance and their utter refusal to learn however is most definitely not..

Butler is in a class of his own...his ignorance, his arrogance and his unwillingness to learn ( anyone who opposes his hysterically incontinent idea of what constitutes a conspiracy is automatically dismissed as a Lone Gunner or a COINTELPRO operatives) are utterly terrifying...he's over on the 13 Inch Head forum raving about JFK smiling and waving after BEING SHOT SEVERAL TIMES IN THE BACK AND APPARENTLY AT LEAST ONCE IN THE HEAD!!!!!

Ask Rigby for any probative evidence... anything...to demonstrate even a rudimentary understanding of how the films and photos were altered, anything at all in fact...all we get is the same tired old rhetorical tomfoolery...false premises a plenty , the same old worn out paeans to paranoid populism... government = Bad... He tries to sound condescending but ends up sounding barely coherent ( barely conscious perhaps)

Think about it for an instant...one of the cornerstones of their, ahem, " arguments" are video technology etc didn't exist at the time...indeed it didn't, so why go to all the bother of altering films and photos?. especially when the supposed alterations do absolutely nothing to support the lone nut lie...on the contrary many of the film's and photos, in their extant states, indicate the likelihood of Conspiracy!!!

I can accept the notion of.. the back of JFKs skull being blackened to disguise the avulsive wound, but wholesale alteration...no fucking way!!!

It's an example of the Alice in Wonderland Conspiracy mindset... detached from all notion of empirical reality..
 
Anyone who has seriously studied Cold War era covert operations, and I don't just mean gorging on the high fat revisionist stodge, understands the two key factors were compartmentalization and keeping things as simple as possible...

A frabjous bandersnatching Conspiracy with a cast of thousands, with a team of cackling surgeons stashed in the hold of Airforce One...with their saws and knives at the ready....with swarms of paperclipped doppelgoves circulating round the Plaza...with Madeleine Brown ready to play Lady MacBeth to Nixon's Banquo at Murchison's pre Assassination bacchanalia....it's not reality.... the .handful of serious historical researchers remaining understand this...

It fills me with anger and despair...it really does...to think of all the really great work that's been done, and make no mistake this is still a crucially important subject...but it's been reduced to slapstick...a crowd of buffoons in the dayroom at Bellevue... throwing custard pies at each other and giggling inanely...
If some enterprising mainstream journalist happened to stumble across Butler's posts and published them ...tha t really would be it...Game Over...Do not pass " Go" do not collect £200 ... anyone even tangentially associated with the subject would be reduced to an absolute laughing stock...

Can you imagine the likes of Saturday Night Live doing a skit?

An average day on the Education Forum?....

Facemask wearing doppelgoves, bodysnatching surgeons, the teenage Dubya out for a leisurely stroll through the Plaza...fake Marguerite Oswald imposters giving birth to identical twins and more faked films than you could shake Harvey fucking Weinstein's misshapen cock at...

Not forgetting the air of utterly humourless self righteous fundamentalism...

Armstrong save us all...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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JeremyBojczuk
Posts : 57
Join date : 2017-10-02
http://22november1963.org.uk/

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 05 May 2021, 10:26 pm
Good points, Alex, about the dangers these people pose to the public perception of the assassination debate.

Your suggestion that young Master Rigby thinks the driver shot JFK - is that true? Does he really believe that? If he does, he must be the last person in the world who still takes that nonsense seriously. But I suppose it's no crazier than claiming that omnipotent masterminds faked all of the films and photos.

As I understand it, the 'driver shot JFK' nonsense came about through uncritical acceptance of visual artefacts generated by poor-quality reproductions of the Zapruder film. Yet Master Rigby seems certain that the whole of the photographic record was faked. So if the film really does show Greer shooting Kennedy, why did the masterminds leave that bit in? Still, who cares about such trivial inconsistencies when you've got an impossibly vast conspiracy to believe in!

It's difficult to know exactly what tone to take when replying to these people. If someone has a mental health problem, you don't want to push them over the edge.

I'd guess that the 'everything is a fake' believers fall into three main categories:

A - Those who have a passing interest in the assassination but aren't closely acquainted with the evidence. They land on the Ed Forum, read the stuff about faked films, faked photos, faked Oswalds, faked presidential corpses, and all the rest of it, and assume that this nonsense is widely accepted. These people are basically OK, and usually you can get through to them. In due course, they'll either see through the craziness or lose interest and find something else to occupy their time.

B - Those who want to make a contribution to research for whatever reason, but don't know how to do it. They can't be bothered to read the original documents, and they don't have the knowledge or brain power to properly analyse the photos and films. All they can do is hunt for worthless anomalies. It makes them feel that they are achieving something, when they are in fact wasting their lives. These people are idiots.

C - Those who are genuinely paranoid and deluded. They really believe that the assassination was an almighty conspiracy, involving large numbers of people, in which super-powerful Bad Guys planned out all the details and faked all the evidence. It doesn't occur to them that this is preposterous, because that's how they view the world in general.

As for taking Alex's cast of intellectual lightweights and working out which lightweight fits into which category, I'd better not speculate.
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alex_wilson
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Join date : 2019-04-10

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 05 May 2021, 11:22 pm
ACT TWO

Niccolo ( gazing inquisitively at Jim's pipe) " Forgive my curiosity Signor Angleton , but I have noticed many men, and women too, placing similar contraptions into their mouths, and ( lowering his voice to a confidential murmur) just between ourselves ,as men of the world, or rather ex men.... ( breaks out into a sardonic grin, his round boyish face resembling the lascivious countenance of a wicked cherub).... various other orifices too"

Jim ( with a libidinous cackle, his cold grey eyes illuminated by a mischievous twinkle) " Ah so you've met Allen then? He's still up to his old tricks.... I'm not a particularly sympathetic man but I must confess I pitied his wife Clover,! That poor woman!!! He made her play a little game....he called it " the Choo Choo train to Treblinka"...he'd fire up his pipe and blow smoke up her , well, how shall I put it tactfully, lady garden, until the smoke came billowing out her nose and her ears...."

Niccolo ( wondrous look) " Signor, you leave me speechless!!! I spent some time at the Court of the Borgia's...I went whoring with Gioffre, I witnessed  the purple faced Pontiff wheezing his way through his various debaucheries... I even drank from the divine Lucretia's poisoned chalice...but this Allen you speak of,  the many nameless depravities , the immorality and salaciousness you hint at.... I confess you make me feel like the naïve young  innocent I once was...but Signor Angleton please indulge me, before we commence our dialectic, what is that strange ornament? How is the smoke created? I once beheld the immortal Leonardo produce a similar implement...to ease the Duke of Milan's rampant syphilis...perhaps this Allen you speak of was simply performing his holy spousal duties...by relieving his wife's distress...."

Jim( slyly) " The wily old coot was certainly relieving her of something...but this?( he removes his pipe, waving it around, creating, perhaps deliberately, a series of weird symbols with the trailing clouds of thick blue smoke) this is just a pipe...and this( he points a gnarled finger at the smouldering bowl) is tobacco...a plant, discovered in the New World by the conquistadors...ah yes! I think the Englishman Raleigh brought it back to Europe...."

Niccolo ( looking puzzled) " Signor Angleton, I believe you are having a little bit of sport at my poor humble self's expense... the Spanish conquistadors you speak of were fine Godly men...pilgrims Signor!! Acting in the name of the Pope and the Emperor Charles...they would not have dealt with such frippery... Come sir! I have travelled far to seek your council...let us speak as fellow seekers!! Adepts eager to unravel the mysteries of the powerful... I confess I am eager to learn how you managed to assassinate such a powerful man..."

Jim ( with a shrug) " I am, or rather, I wasn't the sporting type Signor Machiavelli...you asked about my pipe and I told you the truth... Even in death it seems I cannot escape the burdens of life...when a liar speaks the truth the listener hears only lies...no one listened to me!! No one believed me!! They dismissed me as a self seeking liar...desperately trying to justify the ruins he left in his wake...but are ruins not to be cherished? Ruins are but glorious echoes!! Palaces! Abbeys! Great cathedrals...great people too... instead of the greatness the fools see only ruins!!! They ignore the great deeds to focus instead on the ruins...all great lifes must end in tragedy!!! I saved my country Signor Machiavelli...I saved it from the communists... I helped remove a traitor!! But the traitor is glorified..a weak immoral spineless coward!!! They have all but deified his memory!! The golden aura they have manufactured... Camelot!!  conceals the wretched truth...It is quite ironic...for Camelot itself ended in ruins...in betrayal and in patricide...( lapses into a morose silence... staring gloomily up at the gathering storm ....)

Niccolo ( gently) " I understand Signor Angleton...all truly great men are vilified by the weak minded fools who make heroes out of cowards...we could spend many a long hour speaking of such men....and women too...but( glancing nervously into the shadows) I have very little time... I wanted to ask you how you managed to pull off such a spectacular feat...not only the assassination itself but the shroud of lies...In my own time it was a crude unsophisticated business!! The dagger's blade or the poisoner's cup....my own dear Cesare for example...murdered his own brother Giovanni!! Both of them were sleeping with the wife of their brother Gioffre!!! They had him killed and dumped into the river!! Cesare was cunning, a talented soldier too! but the guileful subtle arts eluded him...they killed blatantly...a an without shame...but you Signor Angleton!! Were you not the master of duplicity? Tell me did you employ a highly skilled band of condorotteri? Florentines? Aragonese? Or Englishmen perhaps? Like the great Hawkwood? Crafty mercenaries...of course you hired another band of assassins to kill the first...where did you position your arquebusiers? And the city officials? And the generals? What about the dead king's advisors? The cardinals? Did you bribe them? Threaten them? Or maybe you killed them too? I recall reading of the dark times they call the Saeculum Obscura...or the Pornocracy... when the Papacy, the Throne of Saint Peter was in the possession of gangs of cut throats...families of brigands who killed with impunity and turned St Peters into a brothel....Teenage Popes!! Incest!! Fornication!!!Pope Joan!!! The Cadaverous Synod!! Surely you were much more sophisticated? Using only the finest assassins...in small handpicked bands"

Jim ( proudly) " First of all he was a president and not a king...a small group of mercenaries? Many astute observers have presumed this to be so....but they are all quite mistaken! On the contrary the conspiracy involved 1000s.... I, the head of the FBI, several dozen generals and admirals, Texas oil men, Mafia chieftains, four future presidents, five if you count one of the future presidents 17 year old son, numerous intelligence agents, many of whom decided to show up and be photographed and filmed, strolling around the assassination site, am I forgetting anyone? oh yes several geriatric ex Nazis , several of whom were notorious highly recognisable war criminals, I even managed to convince old Asmodeus ( sniggering) after all he wouldn't want You Know Who to see that photo of him and Mary Magdalene..to lend me a couple of conspirators..." The Georgetown liberal elites would really appreciate that" I thought!! Having their darling Jack assassinated by a plan masterminded by a couple of high ranking Nazi War Criminals who had been dead for nearly 20 years... I thought that added a real touch of finesse...Yes there must have been quite literally thousands of conspirators, all busily conspiring away...how could I have forgotten dear little Judy!! What a prodigy!! Despite having an unlimited budget and the best brains in the country working in cutting edge laboratories I thought it would be more prudent to hire some teenager who had won a prize ribbon at a science fair to weaponise cancer to kill a head of state...not only did I decide to break all known security protocols by telling her who the target was, I decided it would be better if carried out their experiments in a kitchen belonging to a highly recognisable ex pilot under investigation for molestation, who had a degree from a shoddy Italian diploma mill.... compartmentalization, discretion and security protocols? Who needs them!!! I decided to let them hack, chop and blend to their heart's content... allowing them to process thousands of mice and monkeys...are you feeling alright Signor Machiavelli? You seem a tad paler than before? A quite brilliant plan I thought!! Do the exact opposite of what you would expect highly disciplined professional assassins to do!! Oh yes we had a big party too!! The night before!!! Everyone was invited, even key conspirator's mistresses!!! Let me relight this damn pipe before I tell you the REALLY cunning part!!! Hold onto your hose!!! I decided we should fake all the home movies and photographs...here's the real kicker...using technology that wouldn't be invented for at least another decade or so!! Not only that we faked the films in such a way that no highly trained expert would notice the fakery... only untrained amateurs squinting at blurry pixelated internet reproductions would be able to foil our cunning scheme....Not only that we faked the films in such a way it made it obvious there had been more than one arquebusier, I mean gunman!!!"

END OF ACT TWO...
Intermission... the John Butler Trio will now be performing  their version of Jack Whites highly regarded " Zapruder Waltz" Before our special guest flautist will perform her unique rendition of the old Bob Dylan classic " Stuck inside of Mahler's Suitcase with the Vienna Vortex Blues Again"


Last edited by alex_wilson on Thu 06 May 2021, 3:44 am; edited 2 times in total

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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alex_wilson
Posts : 909
Join date : 2019-04-10

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 05 May 2021, 11:33 pm
Jeremy, to answer your question about Master Rigby he was most certainly a very vocal advocate of the bizarre " Greer didit theory"...

Presumably relying on the infamous frame from a particularly degraded copy of the Zapruder film...a film he thinks is fake!!!

Armstrong preserve us all!!! That's a prime example of Quantum Conspiracing... the chaos theory of conspiracy...

Base your theory on a film you believe to be faked!!!!

This super advanced level of conspiracing is way beyond my meagre cognitive faculties...

In fact Messrs Butler and Rigby may well be the conspira centric reincarnations of Beaker the mad scientist from Sesame Street and his crazed sidekick...
The really fucking depressing thing is with the level of intellect on display over on the 13 Inch Head forum I'm almost certain more than a couple of our more discerning conspiracy loving chums would consider that proposition a valid avenue of research...

As far as I am aware M Rigby has in no way disavowed this belief. Not only that I'm certain I remember none other than Ralph Cinque using some of his " research" to bolster his Altgens 6 nonsense...

I think you'll soon be adding the Oak Leaf cluster to your Tin Foil Cross!!

You have my respect for having the courage and the fortitude to stand up to the peddlers of such inane taradiddle...

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
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Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Thu 06 May 2021, 3:18 am
I've just finished reading Paul's latest reply to Jeremy...

Paul, if you happen to read this reply I hope you can forgive the whimsical japery... I find some of your ideas intriguing, completely fantastical and ahistorical, but most definitely interesting. 

You weren't referring to the CIA/ MI6 led coup in Iran perchance? Known as Operation Ajax or the somewhat less poetical Operation Boot?

If you were I'd seriously reconsider the source material you rely upon to draw such outlandish conclusions...

That particular operation descended into a bloody confused hetacomb, with the Western intelligence agencies reduced to hiring groups of thugs, and paying malleable ayatollahs to fire up the faithful with apocalyptic tales of Mossadegh inspired godless communist takeovers...

If you have any evidence pertaining to Iranian Zapruders and faked films I'd be fascinated to see it.

It's just more of the same old same old... highly idiosyncratic interpretations of dubious sources...not only was the Zapruder film massively altered it was shown on live TV on the 23rd/24th November 1963...

It's just more fanciful speculation and anomaly hunting..

Some woman claiming she saw the film in late '63( I hope it's not the woman I have in mind) on an internet forum in 2007 is not evidence of alteration..

Your skewered interpretations of what certain newspaper editors may or may not have said is not evidence of alteration..

If you seriously think conspirators were " storyboarding" Dealey Plaza with all due respect I think it's time you found another hobby...

To me the notion of omniscient, almost godlike conspirators does not represent reality. The idea that such " sponsors" could anticipate what researchers would be doing decades later is downright absurd...
The assassination has been ridiculously over complicated, certain types of conspiracists seem to delight in the near fetishization of wildly impractical Byzantine like plots...

To me the assassination was a relatively straightforward military style ambush, carried out by a relatively small tightly bonded paramilitary team, with ostensible turn of the head approval and/ or support of certain high placed personages high up in the sprawling labyrinthine National Security infrastructure...

I think the lone nut cover story represents the dread hand of Washington. The continuity of government types prevailing. Shutting down all talk of conspiracy...

Hoover, the CIA and all the usual dramatis personae were most certainly complicit in the cover up... but I suspect some of that was down to bureaucratic CYA... perhaps helped by the dormant " virus" injected into the system... and LHOs pre assassination relationship with one or more intelligence agency.

I think people confuse beneficiaries for active conspirators. JFKs style and his policies, most prominently his willingness to co operate with the dreaded communists had made him many powerful enemies...this emnity no doubt encouraged the conspirators...

No one has managed to answer the one simple pertinent question...Why? Why go to the trouble of faking practically all the films and photos? How did this elaborate fakery help shape the narrative?

The concept makes absolutely zero sense...

Surely to God after all these fucking years it's time to realise the amateurish bumbling Jack White School of Conspiracing...hunt the anomalies is an absolute dead end...

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Thu 06 May 2021, 7:13 pm
Also there are photos and videos which did not show up for years or even decades after the assassination. How would the conspirators have been able to alter these when they were not even aware of their existence?

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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Fri 07 May 2021, 10:10 pm
Master Rigby obviously picked up a trick or two from his extended sojourn with our late lamented Fooish chums. Perhaps from Fezzo too...

If ya can't beat 'em bamboozle the fuck out of 'em ..

His latest offering was not too dissimilar to the end result if the scriptwriters from one of those ghastly 70s sitcoms ( On the Buses or the Two Ronnies...and no John Butler before you ask the show wasn't part of a decades long double doppelganger project involving MI6 and BBC Light Entertainment) performed a manuscript cut up a la William Burroughs with some obscure technical journal....

It's virtually illegible gobbledegook...

Jumping to all manner of wonderfully unfounded conclusions and treating them as factual... even quoting from Fetzer's ' magnum opiod' ... the Great Zapruder Film Hoax...aw bless.... what's next? 

The Professor Larsen edited Barney the Dinosaur goes Conspiracing ( Brigham Young University Press)???

The Great Zapruder Film Hoax is so discredited and such an embarrassing relic from a bygone era ( like those awful racist TV commercials or cigarette ads encouraging you to smoke yourself healthy) it's been rumoured a certain individual , who must remain anonymous, was arrested with the book hidden inside one of those eye poppingly graphic  Scandinavian hardcore... publications...

" He" was less embarrassed to be seen with " Fiona's Farmyard Frolics"!!!!!

The problem boils down to a fundamental question of epistemology...

Namely : what should be considered " evidence"?

Doug Horne's speculative musings ARE not evidence...

Making fantastically unproven ( and virtually unprovable) claims of cloak and dagger skullduggery involving imaginary film switching ( Zapruder for Muchmore) is not evidence...

Apart from a self professed dementia sufferer recounting events that happened nearly 40 years previously no self styled " Alterationist" has come up with any evidence that could be considered remotely probative...

No one has come anywhere close to answering the various serious technical questions...

The case for film alteration boils down to highly speculative interpretations of eye witness testimony...comparing certain witnesses statements( or idiosyncratic interpretations thereof) with the extant films; claiming that the disparity between them somehow proves alteration.

Eyewitness testimony, especially non expert testimony relating to traumatic events, is perhaps the least reliable evidentiary sources...

Anyway when studied closely and without any predetermined agenda ( surprise surprise) often the statements contradict the frabjous claims of the alterationists...

The Alterationists???? They sound like some fucking whacked out religious sect....led by a balding ex pest exterminator from Poughkeepsie!!!! Who claim Pontius Pilate employed a team of crack Greek physicians to break into the tomb and alter Jesus's wounds...

" I tell you brothers and sisters they must have altered the wounds!! Punching in the holes in his hands!!! Either that or they switched bodies man!!! Why do you think the SPQR complex had Barrabas released!!! The Good Shepherd don't want no sheeple man!!!"

Either that or it's the never ending quest for the anomaly of the week...

A bunch of untrained amateurs, usually of a certain age , squinting through their bifocals at degraded pixilated internet reproductions...

The results have been utterly ridiculous and cringe enducing...

The analogy of someone attempting to read then criticise a book written in a language they don't understand is perfect. People who have absolutely zero technical knowledge: be it of lenses, film grain...in fact there's a whole host of technical issues...

In many ways the extreme conspiracists who believe everything, and I mean EVERYTHING, is a conspiracy... the handiwork of virtual demigods who are able to anticipate the future as easily as they can divine the innermost workings of the human soul...are every bit as naïve and unsophisticated as the so called sheeple they like to denigrate...

Believing everything is a conspiracy is just as ridiculous as believing nothing is....

Chris Davidson is perhaps the brightest of the bunch...but even his work borders on the incoherent...

These characters seem to exist in some sort of limbo. Their increasingly untenable claims threaten to dilute, and indeed completely undermine the potency of the argument that can be made about the one piece of photographic evidence that does appear to have been faked...

The BYP....

It's almost as if some bizarre doppelganger phenomenon DOES exist...

The most compelling pieces of pro Conspiracy evidence seem to attract , for want of a better expression, their very own doppelgangers...

Not only do these doppelgoves decrease the impact and the potency, and indeed the evidentiary value ..but they present the Skeptics, lone neuter trolls etc with the perfect avenue of attack. Allowing them to dismiss the pieces of evidence without even having to discuss them....

It happens all the fucking time...

Obligingly the more extreme advocates of the Grand Super Duper Director's Cut Conspiracy ( complete with storyboarding, doppelgoves bodysnatching surgeons  doppelettes and kitchen sinks a plenty) served up a veritable smorgasbord of wide eyed troofery...James Files, Juddufki,. Loy Factor, H and L, body alteration, Doorwayman, the other film, Z film alteration and on and on ad infinitum...allowing the likes of the late Professor McAdams Six Gun Stevie Roe, the last surviving member of the Gang Who Couldn't Shoot Straight and the odious Reichsleiter Hess to avoid having to confront the authentic pro conspiracy evidence...

In the decades since the release of JFK and the creation of the ARRB the subsequent antics of a very loud very media savvy very obnoxious gang of researchers, led initially by Fat Professor in all his farting frothing and fallumphing glory and bumbling old Jack White, proceeded to decimate serious historical research into the assassination...turning it into a lurid tabloid friendly free for all...

With fake witnesses sprouting like mushrooms after a rainstorm...

Apart from a tiny handful who kept on keeping on ( despite the accusatory howls of lone neuterism) they've all but alienated the subsequent generations.... the vast majority of smart politically literate millenials equating assassination research with fucking Nessie or Sasquatch hunting...

That's what the likes of Rigby, Healy and most of the others don't seem to grasp...

Horne's speculative meanderings may well have convinced the 30 or so who trekked to Duluth for the " Is Seeing Believing Symposium"( I like to imagine the shades of Edward Lear, Ogden Nash and of course Lewis Carroll hovering in the vicinity, nodding approvingly as Humpty Dumpty held them spellbound before the Walrus and the Carpenter did their thing) back in 03...and it may well sound convincing to the few remaining diehards...but even the most devout fundamentalist is now starting to emerge from their trance...

With his Z fake and his family of fakettes waddling along behind, like MK Ultra'd ducklings through Dealey Plaza ...and with his fantasy of in car shootings and Marcus Aurelius Master Rigby is heading out to Dickie Hooke territory...if you think Greer didit why not Jackie too?

And James Files? Badgeman and Otto Skorzeny too?

Armstrong have mercy on us all...


Last edited by alex_wilson on Fri 07 May 2021, 10:17 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : A dopplegove in dark glasses and a cowboy hat told me to change my blue sneakers into white highheels)

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Sat 08 May 2021, 10:20 am
Prof. Fez was almost right.

"The anomaly is the conspiracy" is what he meant to say.

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Sat 08 May 2021, 10:32 pm
I have to hand it to Master Rigby...his notion of " Conspiracy" may well be the most illogical self contradictory pile of shite i've ever had the misfortune of encountering amidst the weeds, long grass and strangely aromatic poppies....that  sprouted round the beanstalk- grown out of the "magical seeds" the fresh faced young David Lifton was sold, nearly 20 years ago, behind the ladies toilet at the bus station in seedy downtown Duluth....having been sent there by Professor Fetzer , who using his now legendary " critical thinking skills" reasoned Lifton, with his creepy persona, akin to a venomous trouser snake in an ill fitting turtleneck, would look perfectly at home amongst the winos, the johns, the pimps and the other denizens of Duluth's seemy underbelly ( that perhaps not coincidentally got a lot seemier when a corpulent conspiracy crazed " philosopher of science" rolled into town, but I digress...)

The intrepid best selling author was hot on the trail of a copy of the infamous " other " film...a film that apparently confirms the alterationists suspicions of wide limo turns, upwards of 10 shots fired at the stationary limo and other " anomalies" . Amongst the select handful who have reported viewing this enigmatic footage , " Monk" Burnham, oberbefehlshaber of the now defunct " Der Forum", steadfastly refused to give any further details of the circumstances under which he was shown the  film, " I'm not at liberty to say" he sniffed...

Anyhoo.. the good Professor heard via the " alterationists grapevine" about a copy circulating round certain " collector's circles" in Duluth...after organising his " symposium" he hurriedly dispatched Lifton to procure the copy...The rotund Lifton set off...huffing and puffing like a polygamous pigman on a leash...

The meet having being brokered by one of David Healy's " underground contacts"....A hefty Hungarian hausfrau in a luminous pink shellsuit with more gold teeth than Albert Doyle 

Lifton, fetchingly attired in one of Mr Healy's less soiled raincoats and wearing the false whiskers Howard Hunt had worn when negotiating with the  ambassadors of the alien presence ( supplied by Doug Caddy), spent several hours loitering around outside the toilets, until a disreputable looking individual in a black trenchcoat sidled up to him..." psst Gringo, you wanna buy shit?"

To cut a long story short shit ( in the shape of 3 florescent green seeds) was indeed purchased, seeds the enraged portly professor hurled out the window ....at once they sprouted and a giant purple veined beanstalk shot up...three whole miles into the dull Minnesota sky...

Fetzer bravely sent Jim Hackett II to investigate...he returned 3 years later talking of the wondrous sights...

A wild wacky world....where the laws of physics are about as useful as a polygraph machine at the annual JFK assassination conference...a place where nickel plated revolver totin' Secret Service agents with corkscrew necks wander around through the cellophane flowers arm in arm with giant Dallas housewifes and midget Billy Lovelady impersonators...gazing up at the marmalade skies as they try to hitch a ride on a newspaper taxi ..( the estate of John Lennon firmly deny the allegations made by one John Butler... the girl with kaleidescope eyes most certainly did NOT work as a stripper with Beverly Oliver and Jada at the Carousel Club)...

Mister Rigby now claims the " back and to the left" frames were actually the result of yet more alterations....as the great Stoic philosopher SpongeBob Squarepants says " Isn't imagination wonderful"..

That's right folks us poor benighted " anti alterationists"( " scratch an anti alterationist and youll find a Warren Commission lawyer" quoth Master Rigby) are stumbling around , like Gordon Arnold and "Hard hat man" atop the Grassy Knoll, we don't understand the cover up merchants/ conspirators, in their near omniscience , who forcefully pushed the lone nut lie, shutting down all talk of conspiracy, actually altered the Zapruder Film to make it appear there WAS INDEED a conspiracy...

It's conspiracing meets the Droeste effect meets a Chinese Puzzle box...the proponents of a frabjous all encompassing Conspiracy keep having to create extraneous layers of conspiracy...one layer opening up to reveal another and on and on and on....

After one theory is debunked they simply declare " Ah but what about..." creating yet another layer...

The Zap film was faked to conceal evidence of more than one shooter...no, wait it was faked to conceal the limo stop...no wait it was faked to SHOW evidence of conspiracy to create cognitive dissonance amongst researchers decades later...and on and on...deep into the stormy Dallas night( or the Stormy Daniels night for certain of our ahem less discriminating conspiracy loving chums)

Like H and L, like Mary Pinchot Meyer,  Ralph Yates, the stalwart defenders of the sanctity of the 2FLRE, like countless other myriad " theories" it eventually boils down to a never ending cycle of " What Aboutism"...

The attempted shifting of the burden of proof is a favourite ruse de guerre, beloved of all true tin foil hat wearing believers in the Great Universal Conspiracy...

Nothing so clearly and so unambiguously reveals the lack of intellectual honesty , integrity and even a modicum of rational thought...


Time and time again " lone neuter trolls" are challenged to DISprove an argument that has yet to be proven...

I find the subject of alteration both baffling and intriguing...poring over blurry pixelated internet reproductions of almost 60 year old films and photos looking for " anomalies" seems like a complete exercise in futility...What the fuck for? What has alterationism ever proved? How has hunting for 3 legged dwarves , hermaphroditic children and other more esoteric phenomena furthered research?

Au contraire...it seems like an absolute waste of time..pseudo research at its worst...but yet somehow it seems to have exerted an almost hypnotic influence on otherwise clear thinking rational critics...who become intoxicated by the apparent allure of scouring the films and photos for anomalies....

Fetzer, Healy and co have brought the whole subject into disrepute thanks not only to their amateurish bungling but their toxic overtly aggressive style of " debate"..

Healy, bless the poor old soul, still considers contibuting to the Great Zapruder Film Hoax as something to be proud of....in reality of course his " technical arguments" were laughably naïve..

The estimable Bernie Laverick said it best:
" When a non entity like Craig Lamson can tan your arse on a regular basis it really is time to bow out"

Their fucking buffoonery made Lamson, a purveyor of the most odious reactionary bile ,seem like a virtual paragon...

I don't know how Jeremy does it!! He must have the zen like inner calm of a troll punk Trappist....attempting to reason with people who seem determined to be as stubbornly UNreasonable as possible...

Armstrong help us all if some enterprising " lamestream media" stooge of the ZOG stumbled across Messrs Butler, Rigby and Healy's posts...

Fuck it, if they actually took time to examine some of the more exotically frabjous contributions on the three other main assassination forums anyone even remotely interested in the case would be vilified and considered a pariah...or a hateful crackpot.....if Der Forum was the assassination research equivalent of the Fuhrerbunker then Deep FooFoo is rapidly transforming into an abandoned nuclear fall out shelter deep in the Ural Mountains...its dilapidated walls defaced with Dickie Gilbride's ever more demented scribblings....our paint sniffin' UFO chasin' chum attempted to rally support for his latest theory by addressing his fellow Fooites as  " arrogant egomaniacs with inferiority complexes"

How charming..

Stinky Mac's Imaginarium is increasingly starting to resemble some sort of halfway house for the chronically gullible, militant lone nuts battling with determined advocates of the Hickey didit theory with a liberal sprinkling of far out troofer zaniness...

As for the 13 Inch Headed gang...apart from a small handful of notable exceptions the place is transformed into a cross between a retirement home for baby boomers and a derelict warehouse crammed full of almost 60 years worth of nightmares...

Someone comes along from time to time, prodding the slumbering ghosts , who obediently begin chattering and babbling away...

Reading some of the stuff that passes for research I don't know if I should call an archaeologist or an exorcist...or maybe those nice chaps in the white coats with the butterfly nets...


Last edited by alex_wilson on Wed 12 May 2021, 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Mon 10 May 2021, 2:47 am
Jeremy, just to let you know I let my friend's grandfather, who worked for the BBC back in the 60s and the 70s, working with various outside contractors ( modelmakers etc) to provide the primitive special effects for many shows, read Healy's " Technical Aspects " paper, or whatever it was called.

It was his section in The Great Zapruder Film Hoax...

For starters Healy had no idea about the daytime loading procedures for Zapruder's camera, he misindentified the film stock and had absolutely no idea about the film used in post production...and that was just for starters....it became painfully obvious he didn't have a clue...

The idea of using optical printers to enlarge 8mm film ( up to 35mm I think) for alteration is absolutely ridiculous...

As his his idea of travelling mattes...

When confronted with a genuine expert, and not with some CTwinkie neophyte who wants to believe in alteration , its blatantly obvious he doesn't have a fucking clue about what he's talking about..

I'm pretty certain Professor Fielding, the guy who wrote the special effects book Healy always likes to wave around, called his ideas " technically naïve"

Not only is he back trying to shift the burden of proof, but consider the sheer hypocrisy of him suggesting you ( if I'm successfully translating the monosyllabic ersatz waffle , commonly known as HealySpeak, back to English)
compare the in camera original....Healy himself, at least a decade ago, announced he was making his " formal claim", presumably to the National Archives...

Of course like all blowhards and internet wannabes he ended up doing sweet fuck all... It's just a bullshit smokescreen...

It takes no real talent to sit carping on the sidelines...

His " argument" is so feeble and he personally is so bereft of any real understanding all he can do is make vague insinuations and cast aspertions...as if everyone who doesn't buy his inane crapulence and are struck dumb by his uberconspiratorial taradiddle must be some sort of lone nutter...or COINTELPRO operative..the childlike arrogance and lack of self awareness is absolutely breathtaking...

To be brutally honest it's absolutely pathetic...

As are his almost laughable attempts at patronisation...he's gotten so used to being surrounded by credulous gullible CT hungry goofballs , he assumes everyone else is similarly dull witted and unsophisticated, automatically accepting ANYTHING vaguely conspiratorial...


Last edited by alex_wilson on Wed 12 May 2021, 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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Mon 10 May 2021, 3:10 am
Alex,

I recommend that you show this to any animation film expert you so desire and have them explain it to you, if you don't understand the concept.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17YMObID2SD96awJejHuZiTi5VzbBOGac/view
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Mon 10 May 2021, 4:14 am
Thanks Chris.

I'd be happy to.

If you want to contact me via PM i'll be delighted to send you the summary my friends grandfather made. 

Could he be mistaken? Of course

And of course he was almost 90 at the time... and long retired. It would be unbelievably hypocritical of me not to accept the fact that the same problems relating to the frailty and unreliability of memory are equally applicable in this case..

Although I'd argue someone offering an opinion on a subject they were extremely knowledgeable about, is completely different from attempting to reconstruct a memory of an inconsequential topic...for example someone claiming they saw a nondescript kid crossing the street 40 years before...

This was a guy who made his living working with film. In the early 60s,. Stating quite categorically that alteration would be impossible. To do what Healy and co claim was done... impossible. Chris, I think a lot of self styled conspiracists have quite intentionally avoided seeking out expert opinion. If a reasonably competent Russian language expert had been consulted and crucially asked the right questions, the whole " mystery" about Oswald's Russian language skills could have been solved over half a century ago. Likewise and with all due respect to you( sincerely meant because it's clear you are a gifted mathematician) I think it's experts on film, people who are experienced with the contemporary technological capabilities whom we should be listening to...

Chris, who knows you maybe ultimately proven right. I wouldn't insult you by attempting to criticize something I am unable to understand. I have to be honest though I find your mathematical equations somewhat incoherent... that perhaps says more about me than it does about you !!!

I think I've said before itsi not so much the subject of alteration but certain individuals interpretations of what alteration constitutes I find difficult to accept. I think the fundamental notion of conspiracy has been wildly over complicated. And I believe very strongly that the vast percentage of these overcomplications have been highly detrimental to the subject. Having studied contemporary covert operations pretty extensively I find the notion of wholesale alteration extremely difficult to accept...

Then again that may well be down to me. Again it would be extremely hypocritical of me to pretend I have all the answers.

I can completely understand how you, or indeed anyone, could find my style rather off putting ( to put it politely) and you were absolutely in the right before.

I stepped way over the line.

You were right to object and I was happy to apologise.

But I don't apologise for criticising those who I believe are making an absolute mockery of this subject. Or those who are happy to consort with holocaust deniers etc...

Or those who cling to a failed paradigm...stereotypical conspiracy theorists who buy into any old shite, who are absolutely intolerant of dissenting opinion..who've turned this entire subject into a tin foil tabloid friendly jamboree..

I'd be fascinated to discuss the subject with you....if you have the patience to explain your theory in a manner a mathematical simpleton like myself could understand I'd be intrigued...

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" Now can we work on getting Von Pein legally prohibited from using the internet" Albert Doyle. Champion of Free Speech and Credible Moderation
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Mon 10 May 2021, 5:28 pm
I recall the name Fielding, and the description of David Healy as "technically naive". I'll have a look and see if I can dig out the reference.


I don't know how Jeremy does it!! He must have the zen like inner calm of a troll punk Trappist....attempting to reason with people who seem determined to be as stubbornly UNreasonable as possible...


The trick is to remind myself that it isn't the genuine tin-foil hatters that I'm actually trying to convince, but the basically sensible and rational people who might be tempted to take the far-fetched stuff seriously. I'm not expecting Rigby or Healy to suddenly announce: "You know what? I've been delusional! I'd better book an appointment with a psychiatrist, just in case. Better safe than sorry! Mind you, I'm still convinced that my alarm clock / next-door neighbour / pet cat is spying on me."

On the subject of medical appointments, it's jab day, so if over the next few days I'm a gibbering, barely coherent, Healy-like mess, that'll be the reason (I'm not sure what his excuse is).
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Chris_Davidson
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Mon 10 May 2021, 6:21 pm
@Chris_Davidson wrote:Alex,

I recommend that you show this to any animation film expert you so desire and have them explain it to you, if you don't understand the concept.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17YMObID2SD96awJejHuZiTi5VzbBOGac/view
Feel free to include this too.
Cel-frame step animation?
Watch Ready's shoulders and suit as the frames progress.
His suit will fill out with black but only to the top layer(not to the bottom/original film layer)of the two suits.
It's rather obvious in the last frame of the gif. The foreground layer isn't even close in size.

His shoulders get clipped.
Also, as the limo proceeds down Elm, directly attached to the filling-in of his suit is the background curbline, that simultaneously morphs into the beginning of a mountain range.
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Coup209ccf59b62d8ed1a
JFK_Case
JFK_Case
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 5:01 am
@Chris_Davidson wrote:
@Chris_Davidson wrote:Alex,

I recommend that you show this to any animation film expert you so desire and have them explain it to you, if you don't understand the concept.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/17YMObID2SD96awJejHuZiTi5VzbBOGac/view
Feel free to include this too.
Cel-frame step animation?
Watch Ready's shoulders and suit as the frames progress.
His suit will fill out with black but only to the top layer(not to the bottom/original film layer)of the two suits.
It's rather obvious in the last frame of the gif. The foreground layer isn't even close in size.

His shoulders get clipped.
Also, as the limo proceeds down Elm, directly attached to the filling-in of his suit is the background curbline, that simultaneously morphs into the beginning of a mountain range.
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Coup209ccf59b62d8ed1a

He has both hands resting together and he's looking to the left. He turns his body and his right hand leaves prior position and swings to the right. You can clearly see the hand and arm move from one position to the other as it's behind the bike rider's helmet. Big fucking deal.

So according to your logic, Chris, 67% of the frames were removed by the bad guys. You've spent [or wasted] numerous hours on silly mathematical formulas trying to prove this over and over and over again. So let me get this straight - the bad guys went through all of this bother to remove frames, right? According to you, right? Yet, I guess they totally overlooked the SS agent's body being "clipped." Uh huh.

I can just hear it now. Bad guy 1: "Whew! That was tough getting rid of all of those frames." Bad guy 2: "Yep...oops, look...look how the SS agent's body gets clipped." Bad guy 1: "Uh, right. Ah, fuck it. Just leave it in as I'm sure some genius who fiddles with math formulas will discover it years later."

And what exactly were they editing out, Chris, when they had to "clip" the agent's image? Perhaps his machine gun as he took aim at Kennedy?

Meanwhile, your cheerleaders over on EF - the usual suspects like Josephs and Healy - continue to cheer you on like you're some genius. Even on Duncan McCrae's forum, some goofball applauds you as some resident expert researcher.

You're none of this, Chris. You give all serious researchers of this case a bad name. And weren't you the one that took a frame of Darnell and blew it up to 500% to pass this on to goofball researchers so they can "prove" that the man in the doorway was a woman? And those folks call you a genius as well?
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Chris_Davidson
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 6:03 am
In this instance, I don't have to worry about missing frames, just altered.

It's obvious there are at least two layers of film from which Ready's upper torso is created.

The connected right swinging arm/shoulder is a joke.

Since you fail to see it, someone else can point it out to you.

A gif version for those who care not to visit the link provided:
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Suitsb481611923828031
JFK_Case
JFK_Case
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Tue 11 May 2021, 6:46 am
@Chris_Davidson wrote:In this instance, I don't have to worry about missing frames, just altered.

It's obvious there are at least two layers of film from which Ready's upper torso is created.

The connected right swinging arm/shoulder is a joke.

Since you fail to see it, someone else can point it out to you.

A gif version for those who care not to visit the link provided:
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Suitsb481611923828031

I "fail" to see it because, in truth, there's nothing there to "see." It's all in your head, like the nutty math formulas and the percentage of frames removed and the 500% blowing up of the Darnell frame to show folks that the figure in the doorway is a fat woman.

Funnily enough, you're not even consistent with your wacky conspiracy theories. You're obsessed with "proving" there's Z film alteration, yet there's a person up in the vestibule that has some resemblance to Oswald but you "fail" to see that. Instead, your "expertise" in this case leads you to believe that it's a fat woman up there.

And here, again, every single time someone asks you what you're seeing you never EVER leave a reply. What would be the purpose of this so-called alteration? We're waiting...

** Compliments of JFK Case **
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Chris_Davidson
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Tue 11 May 2021, 7:42 am
Maybe a little increase in size, speed and slightly more contrast between the fake pivoting arm swing and real shoulder will help:

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Large
greg_parker
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 9:34 am
@Chris_Davidson wrote:In this instance, I don't have to worry about missing frames, just altered.

It's obvious there are at least two layers of film from which Ready's upper torso is created.

The connected right swinging arm/shoulder is a joke.

Since you fail to see it, someone else can point it out to you.

A gif version for those who care not to visit the link provided:
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Suitsb481611923828031
Unless you were paying someone a compliment (other than yourself), it should read "compliments OF Chris Davidson".

Give me any old home movie and even I could find similar anomalies and flaws - even though this shit puts me to sleep because it is so simultaneously boring AND ridiculous. And those are its good points. On the flip side, it helps paint us all as little crazed Fetzer/White wannabes on the Yellow Brick Rd to Trooferville where White Knights hold off the hordes of Evil Illuminati Goons, all of whom wear yarmulkes.

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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 10:26 am
@Chris_Davidson wrote:Maybe a little increase in size, speed and slightly more contrast between the fake pivoting arm swing and real shoulder will help:

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Large

I prefer the guy behind who is bouncing a basketball.

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Checkmate.

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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 10:45 am
@steely_dan wrote:
@Chris_Davidson wrote:Maybe a little increase in size, speed and slightly more contrast between the fake pivoting arm swing and real shoulder will help:

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Large

I prefer the guy behind who is bouncing a basketball.
I thought they were both playing Stairway to Heaven on their air guitars???

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

https://gregrparker.com
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 11:00 am
That's the beauty of it. Ready is calling the cycle cop a wanker...and every guess is right!

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Checkmate.

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