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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 11:21 am
That sounds like a challenge.

Best gif caption receives one replica Jimbo Baggins Deluxe Goatee made of the finest fake* Elephant ballsack hair money can buy. 


*shaved from the asses of long-eared elephant shrews
A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 2Q==

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Jake_Sykes
Jake_Sykes
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 1:05 pm
It's all taken from the sprocket area, where each frame is a scrambled mix of the current frame along with image spillover from the previous and following frames, so big surprise there are parts of the image in the sprocket area that are over exposed and other parts that are correctly exposed. What a lot of crap about nothing.

Alex and Jeremy: Your writings are as garrotes slipped from behind a black curtain about the necks of untalented exhibitionists who stand upon a stage they feverishly attempt to steal. They are left there. Wordless heaps.

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alex_wilson
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 8:23 pm
Gif caption #1 " For the last time Mr Butler the shape of my nose is the result of evolution...Mac Wallace did NOT bend it and then use me to fire poison darts out of the ladies toilet on the 2nd floor of the Dal Tex building"

#2 " For the last time Mr Doyle I was NOT Jimi Hendrix's manager and intel spooks did NOT use me to pour 5 bottles of wine down the guitarist's throat "

#3 " No , Mr Hughes for the last time my name is NOT David Ferrie, I am NOT Jewish and I wasn't filmed on the Grassy Knoll wearing a snorkel and a purple Purim robe"

#4 " For clarification Mr Trotter I find the term " Curved Proboscis" highly offensive... and please tell your friend we most certainly do not hibernate in the handbags of 300lb grey haired women, nor is our natural habitat the doorways of School Book Depositories..."

"5 " What am I meant to be looking for up here Mr Pigby, sorry Rigby? Spent shells or CIA film alteration manuals"

#6 " No, Mr Healy I most certainly will not colonically irrigate you!! "

#7 " For the last fucking time I do not have a shrew doppelganger called Ichabod who comes from Moldova!! And the CIA most certainly DID NOT use my nose to alter frame 313"

#8 " No, Mr Butler I wasn't hiding up Marilyn Sitzman's skirt and I most certainly did NOT use my nose to film the footage known as " the Other film"

#9 " No, Mr Millegan I will not say I was a happy well adjusted young white mouse... I don't want to appear at your fucking conference and I most certainly will not allow Me Baker to disembowel me live on YouTube"

#10 " .... and then Don Jeffries said to me " What about if I bend over like this?"

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Tue 11 May 2021, 10:23 pm
I have to be honest with you Chris, to my ( layman's) eyes there doesn't seem to be anything remotely suspicious.

Master Pigby's posts comprise of obfuscatory waffle and meaningless non sequitur...

How does a CIA internal memorandum,  advising employees about taking photographs in FOREIGN countries, have anything to do with the alleged alteration of a film?

His argument has absolutely no internal coherence or consistency...it's just vague airy waffle , spiced up with illogical statements and totally unjustified evidentiary leaps....

I can't make head nor tail of his argument... I don't even think he's making an argument....at least not in any accepted sense.

And as for Healy?????

He's the absolute embodiment of your archetypal " conspiracy theorist"

Adopting an air of sneering condescension, predicated upon his self professed experience. No wonder " conspiracy theorists" are vilified...Healy is a prime example of the armchair expert. Apparently he is a reasonably competent video technician, but when it comes to evaluating film..he has displayed no real expertise. 

He insults and talks down anyone who has the temerity to ask him a basic question, or worse still, ask for an example of his work. 

Healy, like most of his compadres in the online troofer fraternity, refuse to apply the same rigor to their own beliefs. Somehow they have developed this wrongheaded notion that they are immune from any sort of scrutiny.

They are free to impugn the motives and/ or professional competence of those who have the damn cheek to disagree with their infallible pronouncements....but woe betide anyone who dares ask for examples of their own work...

Can you imagine the uproar if any " lone neuter troll" copied their modus operandi?

Making all kinds of grandiose claims , but never once displaying proof of their supposed area of expertise? They'd be absolutely eviscerated!!! Metaphorically hung drawn and quartered...in Armstrongs name I hope John Butler doesn't read this post!!! Can you just picture him trying to figure out what " hung drawn and quartered" means....I have a nasty feeling his " research" would lead him to certain Bangkok based websites.... imagine him contacting some bemused art teacher cum amateur portrait painter..." Yes hello I wonder if you could possibly draw me a well hung quarter back?"

Its precisely that sort of hypocrisy , and sickening self righteousness,  that's so off-putting...

Claiming anyone who dares stray from the Orthodox Conspiratocracy sanctioned narrative is a disinformation agent , paid by the " New York Establishment" or the CIA , is not only an example of an almost adolescent narcissism and/ or arrogance, it's utterly fucking preposterous...

I find that sort of doctrinaire intolerance absolutely nauseating.

The bizarre Orwellian notion of Free Speech that silences or marginalises anyone who dares stray from the accepted Orthodoxy...

Look at Deep FooFoo... their sanctimonious po faced " we know the truth" closemindedness quickly descended into farce and self parody...

To be honest ( a little too honest perhaps) I see echoes of my younger self in a few of the newish members of the 13 Inch Head forum...The first heady rush I felt when I read the Assassinations or , much as it pains me to admit it now, Bloody Treason and TMWKTM...

Full of the certainty of inexperience, still transfixed by the allure of it all, the intoxicating sensation of being part of something slightly dangerous.. illicit even. The vicarious thrill of discovery. Gazing upon secret knowledge. Being initiated into some fraternity of truth seekers...

The secret at the very heart of the machine. To them it's a wonderfully disorientating experience... they've been initiated into a very special, very elite group...while their contemporaries; friends, relatives and husbands/ wifes/ lovers are busily rotting their brains away watching Fox News, the sports channels or, Armstrong forbid, Keeping Up with the fucking Kardashians , or some such shite, they are busily exploring the secret darkness at the heart of this decaying society...

I can totally empathise with the newbies... I know what it feels like..it can be a genuinely profound, Damascene moment.. Realising that a lot of what you grew up thinking and believing was nothing more than propaganda at best...Hopefully as their understanding deepens it will mature. It's imperative I think to try to understand both sides of the argument. Facts are neutral after all...The false dichotomy between LNs and CTs is a waste of time..

That's why I have nothing but utter contempt for those who exploit that... passing off that which  they know to be false as some deeply esoteric hidden truth...Just to inflate their ego and/ or boost book sales ..

That's why I think all researchers, especially the more prominent ones, have a responsibility. A very great responsibility in fact. They must be absolutely scrupulous when it comes to facts. 

Some of the stuff I see being peddled makes me cringe. 

After 30 fucking years the argument for alteration, or at least some people's arguments, makes the Warren Report look like some Platonic Ideal...

Healy's semi delirious babbling, spraying the padded walls with enough toxic foam to make the captain of the Sanibel Island fire department's eyes light up...

Ever since Larrytrotter bought the Wicker Man blu ray and ever since Stevie Gaal discovered the subliminal messages on Def Leppard's " Pyromania" album....and ever since our Brian read Cory Hughes latest " essay" ' Was the Reichstag Fire started by Jews to celebrate Yom Kippur?'... Sanibel Island has been stricken with a sudden plague of " Bush Fires"....

I may disagree, and disagree profoundly with Chris but at least he has the integrity and the intellectual honesty to explain his argument...

Apart from Chris not one of the self styled alterationists have remotely attempted to explain how, why, when and where the alterations took place..

I know the late Jack White is still a highly respected, almost venerated figure in some circles, I'm sure he was a wonderful man, and would never attempt to impugn his motives...

But his arguments were risible. Beyond embarrassing, bumbling incompetence in excelsis. He frequently complained about " as hominem" attacks but yet he frequently made the most  scurrilous accusations. Labeling anyone who dared question his pronouncements as " provocateurs" etc etc

He still exerts a baleful influence. 

Look at our chum Master Pigby for example... making the wildest wackiest claims while heaping invective upon anyone who dares to even question his conclusions...

To me alterationism like the H and L cult is an albatross round the neck of anyone who is genuinely interested in finding out what happened...

If it turns out that Chris is right I'd be amongst the first to congratulate him ..

Despite my profound disagreement with him , I would never insult him, or myself ...to label him some sort of disinfo merchant simply because I disagree with him would demean us both..

Plus,  after all I've said about the troofer brigade, mocking their smug vapid self righteous fundamentalism...the absolute intolerance for dissenting opinion and the metaphysical certitude (!) that they, and they alone possess the Truth...it would be hypocrisy on an Bagginsonian scale for me to presume that I am  right and Chris is wrong...

Chris at least has integrity..he does the work. With him it's not all talk.

I wouldn't presume , or have the sheer audacity to question his motives. What fucking right do I have to pass judgement on someone simply because I happen to disagree with them?

What right do I have, do any of us have, to pass judgement on anyone?

If the more vociferous amongst the troofer fraternity spent a fraction of the time they spend assailing the beliefs and motives of others, examining their own beliefs they might start coming back down to earth, they might even become (re) acquainted with the concept of humility..

None of us possess all the answers, the more enlightened amongst us realise the more we learn the more we realise how much there is to learn...that we never stop learning...

Only those who exist in small airless vaults, stubbornly denying that a world beyond their meagre comprehension actually exists, can act with such gratuitous arrogance...

Every time I hear myself speaking in absolutes, pontificating like a tie dyed Fooite I know it's time to take a deep breath and take a step back...


Last edited by alex_wilson on Wed 12 May 2021, 1:16 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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alex_wilson
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Wed 12 May 2021, 12:37 am
P.S. Thanks Jake for your kind words... and for the wonderfully evocative imagery!!

Part of what makes this forum so unique and special is the Yin Yang synergy ...

Yin - the groundbreaking research. The refusal to be straightjacketed by mere " theories"

Yang : No bullshit is tolerated. Purveyors of said bullshit be damned.

It's a perfect balance.

One of the reasons I joined, and one of the main reasons why I've stuck around ( aside from the obvious) , is i'm positive if Greg, you, Steely or any other of the core members discovered evidence that proved Oswald WASN'T in fact Prayerman, you wouldn't try to bury it. 

That's just about the biggest compliment I could ever think of.

The fundamental difference between Greg / ROKC and the mainstream CTers was perhaps best embodied by the time Don Jeffries tried to make a big deal about Greg changing his mind about the Albert Bogard incident...

I didn't know Greg at the time, and if I am being honest,  I was still more inclined towards the Jeffries view of Conspiracy. I remember that exchange making a pretty big impression ( obviously not as big  an impression as seeing some nondescript kid wandering across the street, or kicking a football around) 
I remember thinking if Jeffries had uncovered new evidence , and if this new evidence had threatened the viability of a cherished pet theory, he'd have absolutely no problem ignoring it, and pretending it didn't exist...

I can't remember where I read it, perhaps in one of the Greek philosophers, or maybe it's a quote from the venerable Spanish philosopher Unamuno ( ' You will win but you will not convince!!") but I anyway the phrase was " too often instead of conquering our enemies we end up becoming our enemies"

Of all the things I dislike and despise about the self styled Conspiratocracy perhaps the most objectionable is their absolute willingness to adopt the tactics ( and the ethics) of the Warren Report...

The very thing they're meant to be criticising!!!

Ignoring contrary facts, or twisting and distorting them to fit a predetermined conclusion..

There's fuck all different between H and L and the Warren Report...

In the end they still have the American born Lee Harvey Oswald up on the 6th floor, banging away with his Mannlicher Carcano...then after a quick jaunt via bus and cab to Beckley St they have him gunning down Officer Tippit...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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Chris_Davidson
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 12 May 2021, 2:43 am
alex_wilson wrote:I have to be honest with you Chris, to my ( layman's) eyes there doesn't seem to be anything remotely suspicious.
Alex,

There are comparisons that can be made. One provided below. At this point, I'll just agree to disagree.

It's not incumbent for me to have to explain why there is an alteration. Only that there is.

But in this instance, the WC was trying to compress two shots into one. The shot that Willis describes as he takes his photo and the shot that JFK reacts to(hands to throat) at approx extant z224. There is not enough time between these two for one shooter. Any obvious reaction(within the Queen Mary-doesn't have to be the / only reason) to a shot would have to be addressed.

The example I previously supplied includes extant z207, coincidentally, there are no more frames of Ready or the near side of the QueenMary after that splice.

Something else you don't see in the extant zfilm prior to the z207 splice is the limo slowing down.

Same slowdown occurance at the extant z157 splice/CE884 z161-z166/168 frame data debacle.

The only way to know is to plot the limo on the West plat using stationary Dealy Plaza objects and the properly scaled limo model(with JFK and JBC in their proper locations) created by the FBI for this specific purpose.

So, if you want an explanation(as non-math described as possible) I'm willing to start with the CE884 z161-166/168 data crap supplied, but if it sounds too overwhelming, I'm finished here.

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 ArmLayer
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alex_wilson
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Wed 12 May 2021, 3:28 am
Chris, if you have the patience i'd be fascinated to read your theory. 

I give you my word I'll read it with an open mind. Of course you are absolutely right ;just because I can't see anything , doesn't automatically mean there's nothing there to be seen.

I freely admit to being incredibly skeptical about alterationism in general, but if I let that skepticism metastasis into closemindedness , then that would make me a hypocrite of the first order.

I don't know what time zone you are in, but it's just after 1800 hrs here. We've got stuff on tonight and tomorrow , but if you'd be kind enough to begin posting the following day, or whatever time works best for you , I'll read what you said with a completely open mind..

I haven't spoken to my friend, or his grandfather for a couple of years now. But I'll definitely send him an email, and if his grandfather assents( he was already pretty old, late 80s, early 90s) i'll send him the gifs without comment, and simply ask him his opinion.

Unless there's anything specific you would like me to point out.

Reading some of my comments have caused me to re evaluate my own approach. 

If you are willing to post your theory ( simplified mind you!!) The very least I can do is study it with an open mind...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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JeremyBojczuk
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 12 May 2021, 7:35 pm
Thanks, Jake!

Alex,

This is the comment by Prof Raymond Fielding:


in my judgment there is no way in which manipulation of these images could have been achieved satisfactorily in 1963 with the technology then available ... if such an attempt at image manipulation of the footage had occurred in 1963 the results could not possibly have survived scrutiny, and ... challenges regarding the authenticity of the NARA footage and assertions of image manipulation, as are suggested by Mr Healy in the document that you [Zavada] sent me, are technically naïve.

The document is here:

http://www.jfk-info.com/RJZ-DH-032010.pdf [7.8 MB]

I mentioned it on the Ed Forum here, along with some other stuff you might find interesting:

https://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/22946-the-zapruder-film-and-film-information-between-the-sprocket-holes/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-331597

There are some good comments by Michael on that thread too.
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alex_wilson
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A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Empty Re: A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll..

Wed 12 May 2021, 7:37 pm
If we were playing " Conspiracy Clichés" drinking game... taking a slurp out of our sodium penthatol laced smoothies , every time someone accused another poster of being a lone neuter, disinfo agent or posting under a sinister psuedonym, Healy's latest outburst would have us all staggering around like Yuri Nosenko in Intel Spooks A Go Go, Langley's swingingest titty bar...

The Grand Old Man of Garbled Onanism , in one post, accused Jeremy of , well just about everything...short of being Jack the Ripper...

Apparently writing semi coherently signifies " elitism"(!!!)

Among the fresh faecal pearls our friendly neighbourhood swine excreted we were informed that " alteration is a distraction"...

This coming from someone who has spent nigh on 20 fucking years posting obsessively about the subject... acting as de facto guard dog for the likes of Fetzer, the late Jack White and Dr Costello..

To be fair as a guard dog he was about as effective as Blondi the chihuahua.. sent to " Ricardo Klement" in Buenos Aires by Donnie Jeffries aged 13 3/4, in early 1960 ...he was the original dog that didn't bark in the night!!!! Maybe because the boys at Fort Detrick decided to test their flechette gun on him...

The man who announced publicly, over a decade ago, that he was making his " formal claim" , presumably to examine the in camera original, although why in Armstrongs name would the Archivists allow a disreputable shambling wretch, reeking of stale piss and Thunderbird fortified wine, to handle a national treasure ( why not let Tommy Graves loose in the Hermitage museum? ) is another question entirely, and who didn't lift a fucking finger, somehow feels justified in challenging Jeremy!!! 

After 20/30 years his " argument" fundamentally boils down to calling anyone who disagrees with him " lone neuter trolls" or WCR supporters, or otherwise casting aspertions about their identities and/or motivations( so much for the fabled rules, huh?), rambling incoherently about the " in camera original" and talking down to folk as if he was Orson fucking Welles and not just some video technician from Vegas....

Does he, or anyone else for that matter, refrain from criticising the likes of Hoover, Nixon or LBJ simply because they are dead?

Of course not.

The idea that because Jack White is dead he is somehow immune , is yet another example of the double standard that's so prevalent amongst the troofer fraternity...

They themselves are free to criticize whomever they please , while considering themselves beyond criticism.

Jack White's " work" has been thoroughly debunked and discredited. 

His appearance before the HSCA represented some sort of nadir, it makes for humiliating reading. When confronted with a knowledgeable , articulate questioner, and outside his comfort zone( without his Greek chorus too, chiming in with accusations) it's quite obvious he didn't have a fucking clue...

Taking photographs does not a forensic expert make!!!

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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alex_wilson
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Wed 12 May 2021, 8:09 pm
Thank you kindly Jeremy. Or should that be " Jeremy"(!!!)

I couldn't believe Healy's last response, no wait, I could....

I think Lord Gordonicus, golf lover that he is( judging by his taste in knitwear) should impose a handicap system ...for you and RC D..... watching you two take on our chums is like watching Jack Nicklaus and Tiger Woods take on Ronnie Corbett and Bruce Forsyth!!!!

It's really not fair of you, you elitist you!! Imagine insisting upon semi coherent posts!!!!!

You should only be allowed to use certain words, or not be permitted to think logically...

Perhaps before every post you should be forced to imbibe a few hundred micrograms of Sandoz's finest LSD...just to get you in the " right sort of mindset"(!!!)

I imagine some of our more extreme conspiracy loving chums, on their next outing to New Orleans ( did you know Juddufki offers a guided tour? For a small fee she will show you round all the swinging hotspots!!! The hotel room Clay Shaw, or was it Carlos Marcello? paid for, the very post office where she and Lee HARVEY met, you know the old story? Boy meets girl in Louisiana post office and before you can say " Karashaw Tovarisch" they fall in love!!! Before you know it they're hacking tumour ridden mice and monkeys in a suburban kitchen...smuggling the weaponised cancer down to Mexico in a thermos???!!!!!)they'll be drawn towards the darker part of the French Quarter.. looking to procure certain items of Voodoo related paraphernalia...

Before too long all of us may well have our own doppelgangers!!! Tiny straw doppelettes with pins sticking out of certain parts...

If you want Jeremy I'd be happy to email you the notes my friends grandfather made, or the " edited highlights"... Although at this point i think it would be a case of " bouncing the rubble"

Have you any idea what Master Pigby is chuntering on about? 

I hope all went well with the jab.... you know what those diabolical so in sos at BigPharma are like...all lackeys of Bill Gates and the " Zionists"...

It's white genocide ,man!!! Bill Cooper warned us all, but would we listen?

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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Chris_Davidson
Posts : 35
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Thu 13 May 2021, 4:51 am
Chris_Davidson wrote:
alex_wilson wrote:I have to be honest with you Chris, to my ( layman's) eyes there doesn't seem to be anything remotely suspicious.
Alex,

There are comparisons that can be made. One provided below. At this point, I'll just agree to disagree.

It's not incumbent for me to have to explain why there is an alteration. Only that there is.

But in this instance, the WC was trying to compress two shots into one. The shot that Willis describes as he takes his photo and the shot that JFK reacts to(hands to throat) at approx extant z224. There is not enough time between these two for one shooter. Any obvious reaction(within the Queen Mary-doesn't have to be the / only reason) to a shot would have to be addressed.

The example I previously supplied includes extant z207, coincidentally, there are no more frames of Ready or the near side of the QueenMary after that splice.

Something else you don't see in the extant zfilm prior to the z207 splice is the limo slowing down.

Same slowdown occurance at the extant z157 splice/CE884 z161-z166/168 frame data debacle.

The only way to know is to plot the limo on the West plat using stationary Dealy Plaza objects and the properly scaled limo model(with JFK and JBC in their proper locations) created by the FBI for this specific purpose.

So, if you want an explanation(as non-math described as possible) I'm willing to start with the CE884 z161-166/168 data crap supplied, but if it sounds too overwhelming, I'm finished here.

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 ArmLayer
There is only one person I know of that was reaching for his throat during the assassination.
According to the extant zfilm, this doesn't begin until approx z226.
Yet, see how perceptive you are in finding this occurance at extant z212.
The manipulation process is easier to understand when you figure out what the alterationist's needed to hide.

A Dialogue between Angleton and Machiavelli on the Grassy Knoll.. - Page 2 Z207-z213XX
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Thu 13 May 2021, 8:54 pm
Chris, thanks for taking the time to post the gif. 

Your comment about perception was spot on, in fact it was similar to the point I was trying to make, albeit in a more roundabout , elliptical way...

I think it's all a matter of perception, how we( you , I and everyone) perceive certain images..

And whither or not we have the appropriate technical training to support what we think we see( or perceive) Or the training to correctly decipher the images

That's not meant as a criticism of you per se, just an observation...

To be honest Chris, I see absolutely nothing untoward , just a guy in a suit.. But I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm not able to perceive, or indeed comprehend,  in a technical sense, at least, the point you are trying to make.

Does that make sense?

And even if there is an anomaly could it not have a perfectly reasonable non sinister explanation? Could it not just be a simple matter involving sprocket holes? As Jake suggests?

To the non expert eye things may appear anomalous that are perfectly explicable to the expert...

I remember at university, trying to decipher medieval charters using what remained of my schoolboy Latin. I thought I'd discovered anomalies a plenty... until I spoke to my tutor, an expert in medieval Latin . He explained the style and the usage( the declensions, verb tenses etc and certain stylistic quirks) the medieval chroniclers ( usually scribes attached to monastic institutions or royal/ noble households) habitually employed, and the wide regional variations, not to mention the natural evolution over the centuries...

The Latin we were taught in school was not the same as the Latin used by 13th century monks in a draughty scriptorium in Anjou

For the life of me I can't fathom why anyone would bother altering someone's shoulder....how does Ready's shoulder affect the narrative?. Perhaps you will say it's an artifact of alteration...but being completely honest Chris that makes no sense. To me at least.

If all these intricate alterations were possible, why instead of altering Ready's shoulder or Mary Moorman's shoes, or any one of the seemingly endless anomalies , did they not just alter a film, or a photo and put an Oswald like figure in the 6th floor window? Why go to all the trouble only to leave a film/ photo record that strongly suggests a conspiracy?

I've read all the psuedo intellectual pontificating about near omniscience " sponsors" creating " cognitive dissonance" ....that sort of talk is an artifact of over active imaginations. Like Lifton claiming his body alteration fantasy was an example of a " real world conspiracy".... such claims are not grounded in reality. The Deep FooFoo " we know the truth" school of conspiracy owes more to James Bond than James Angleton.. 

To be perfectly candid I think a lot of alterations are simply people, predisposed to the idea of alteration, who do not possess the necessary technical knowledge, looking at images they don't have the prerequisite training to properly evaluate ,and seeing something that appears to be an " anomaly" they claim alteration...

Of all the Fetzer gang the only one I have any sort of respect for is Mantik. But he is a radiation oncologist not an expert in film... likewise Dr Costello. Have you ever heard of the concept of non overlapping majesteria? It's similar to the Dunning Krueger Effect...

An expert in one subject is not automatically an expert in everything...

Chris, when it comes to alteration it's people like Zavada, Fielding and our very own Mick Purdy, who we should be listening to. People with real life professional film experience...

Not someone who watched Jack White on YouTube...

If I was you I'd be trying to distance myself from the likes of Healy, Rigby, Jack White's legacy and most of all anything at all to do with Fetzer and that comic book of his...

It's obvious to me, after listening to properly accredited film experts that Healy doesn't have a clue. He may well be a highly accomplished video technician/ cameraman, I neither know, or if I am being honest, care.

His argument is regressive to the point of being downright embarrassing. The guy who couldn't be bothered making his own " formal claim" issuing edicts to all and sundry. 

And as for Butler.... I find the mixture of arrogance and ignorance genuinely shocking...

After 20 years Healy's argument fundamentally boils down to if you don't agree with me you're a lone neuter, WCR supporter and/or posting under a sinister psuedonym..

As for Rigby?????

I have no idea what he's rambling on about, his highly idiosyncratic interpretation of mid to late 20th century history reminds me of a Monty Python sketch...

Conspiracy Theorist Football perhaps...

I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say, and when it comes to mathematics I freely admit to ignorance..

But Chris with the greatest respect I don't think it's mathematicians we should be listening to. Am I correct in thinking that you're basing your calculations on the Secret Service ( FBI?) reenactment? I'd like to discuss your theory mainly because I disagree with you. 

Who knows? You maybe ultimately proven right..

I'm trying to be careful not to mistake the Healy/ Fetzer argument for alteration, which is an utter waste of time. Like H and L. (The whole Moorman in the street claim descended into low rent farce. ) with alteration in general...

Chris, please don't be offended or take what I'm about to say in the wrong way, if I was you I'd try to make my theory more accessible. The Swan Song thread was absolutely incomprehensible. 

Anyway if you have the time and the patience I'd be interested to discuss your theory in greater detail. I'd be incredibly grateful if you would be kind enough to spell out your central thesis in terms a layman could understand.

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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Fri 14 May 2021, 3:57 am
alex_wilson wrote:To be honest Chris, I see absolutely nothing untoward , just a guy in a suit.. But I'm perfectly willing to accept that I'm not able to perceive, or indeed comprehend,  in a technical sense, at least, the point you are trying to make.

That’s a start. We actually agree the figure is a guy in a suit. Think of where his physical location is.

And even if there is an anomaly could it not have a perfectly reasonable non sinister explanation? Could it not just be a simple matter involving sprocket holes? As Jake suggests?

I’d be interested to hear the explanation for this next gif after my description.

For the life of me I can't fathom why anyone would bother altering someone's shoulder....how does Ready's shoulder affect the narrative?. Perhaps you will say it's an artifact of alteration...but being completely honest Chris that makes no sense. To me at least.

It hides reactions. Primarily to a shot.

If all these intricate alterations were possible, why instead of altering Ready's shoulder or Mary Moorman's shoes, or any one of the seemingly endless anomalies , did they not just alter a film, or a photo and put an Oswald like figure in the 6th floor window? Why go to all the trouble only to leave a film/ photo record that strongly suggests a conspiracy?

Total exoneration for the SS, FBI, WC. Whether a lack of duty or some type of direct involvement. Oswald the sole goat.

To be perfectly candid I think a lot of alterations are simply people, predisposed to the idea of alteration, who do not possess the necessary technical knowledge, looking at images they don't have the prerequisite training to properly evaluate ,and seeing something that appears to be an " anomaly" they claim alteration...

The images have to agree with photographic principles. See description of gif.

An expert in one subject is not automatically an expert in everything...

There are always experts on both sides. Court trials include both prosecuting and defense experts.

But Chris with the greatest respect I don't think it's mathematicians we should be listening to. Am I correct in thinking that you're basing your calculations on the Secret Service ( FBI?) reenactment? I'd like to discuss your theory mainly because I disagree with you. 

How can you disagree with me when you state you don’t understand what I’m providing for you, mathematically.
The SS, FBI, WC reenactments are a lesson in common sense mind fu—ing.


Chris, please don't be offended or take what I'm about to say in the wrong way, if I was you I'd try to make my theory more accessible. The Swan Song thread was absolutely incomprehensible. 

The Swan Song thread is my repository. Enter at your own risk.

Anyway if you have the time and the patience I'd be interested to discuss your theory in greater detail. I'd be incredibly grateful if you would be kind enough to spell out your central thesis in terms a layman could understand.

Eventually, I might do that for you.
Since we appear to perceive life approx 180° out relating to the assassination(I do appreciate your insight's on the Holocaust) it might not be worth the effort.
I’ll base that on this last gif, plus the description provided and your response.
Hope you understand.

Anatomy 101
#1 is Ready’s left shoulder line
#2 does not belong to Ready
#2 is the left arm +hand+partial shoulder+partial left side torso of somebody.
That arm/shoulder/torso is facing fairly close to the same direction as Ready.
There is no human head attached to it unless you want to somehow convince others the head is cocked downwards. Good luck with that!!!
That arm/shoulder/torso is not in front of Ready
 #3 is an object in front of where Ready’s left shoulder connects to his arm
The only thing we should see in #3 is the rest of Ready’s shoulder/arm connection just as we see in the layered unaltered frame.
There should be nothing(because there was nothing) in front of Ready. I suggest watching the fade in/out very carefully at that moment.
#4 is Ready’s hand holding the QueenMary hand bar.
The unaltered frame also shows Ready holding the hand bar unobstructed. This is what one would expect when there is no obstruction  accounted for.

As I stated previously, I don’t need to supply an explanation for why the alteration exists (hiding reactions to shot, among other items) only that it does.
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Fri 14 May 2021, 4:53 am
No problems Chris. I appreciate your candour. I completely understand your viewpoint,. 

Perhaps my opinions regarding the assassination maybe construed as somewhat minimalist( some may even argue narrow-minded, and who knows maybe they are right) in all my studies of coups/ covert operations etc , despite the time period; be it the Ancient Near East, Anglo Saxon England, Renaissance Italy, Revolutionary France or Cold War America, certain key factors remain. One of those factors is simplicity. In such extremely risky operations there's already a multiplicity of factors, known and unknown, any one of which could be potentially disastrous. Look at the pre assassination planning, it's actually quite clumsy. And as for the post assassination cover up, once the fix was in, the notion of faking practically all the home movies and photographs just strikes me as outlandish. Planning for such operations rely upon tried and tested methods. For the type of professional who would even contemplate something of this magnitude , the thought of them " storyboarding" Dealey Plaza is sheer fantasy...honestly Chris. We speak about propaganda and psy ops, but the actual techniques were pretty crude. Phillips and Hunt or whoever were not magicians!!! Study some of their handiwork...PB Success in Guatemala, or some of the contemporary operations in Cuba and Vietnam...

If they did decide to tamper with the visual record, why not do so definitively? As you know images kept turning up long after the assassination. Why not just produce a killer image? And if Zapruder fakery necessitates all the other films to be faked too??? 

Coming from an academic background I find a lot of the so called research anti intellectual. Not your work Chris, hell when it comes to mathematics etc it's me who should be reading Barney the Dinosaur goes Counting!! Once the proper rigour has been applied , the vast majority of the extravagant claims crumble to dust...

Just look at H and L...the alchemy they attempted to create out of Oswald's " mysterious" acquisition of Russian, was, quite frankly deplorable. Reading the " work" I can only conclude certain individuals specifically avoided seeking expert opinions. Perhaps that's why they enlisted an expert in 19th century French drama( and an ex chairman of the OIC ) to write them a " scholarly" piece...

All I can do is wish you the best of luck. If you are proved right i'll be absolutely delighted to congratulate you, if you ever decide you'd like to discuss your theory/research further I'll be fascinated to read what you have to say.

But when it comes to alteration i'm afraid I'm highly skeptical. I don't blame you for preferring to continue your research, utilising your time far more productively, than attempting to convince some foul mouthed troll punk!

Thanks for the discussion Chris .  Just because you disagree with someone doesn't mean you can't respect them, or appreciate their ability.

Good luck, and please don't hesitate, give me a shout if you want to continue this discussion...

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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Fri 04 Jun 2021, 12:07 am
I've just finished reading through the most recent posts on the " David Lifton spots a piece of scalp.." thread, welcome messrs Kossor and Barnard to the ROKC Hall of Shame... the latter comes across as your good old fashioned crank, his incontinent streams of barely coherent bluster threatening to drown the poor occupants of 13 Inch Headville in hot bubbling pyroclastic waves of pure bullshit...

Who knows? Maybe in a couple of centuries some enterprising digital archaeologist will discover the perfectly preserved " ash mummies" of some of our esteemed chums ... immortalising the 13 Inch Head forum as the Pompeii of the Internet...

Instead of the House of the Faun and the ash encased remains of Pompeians, frozen for all eternity, generations to come will marvel at how perfectly grotesque and lifelike the leering physiognomy of the mummified Lifton is, preserved in death as in life , salivating over excruciatingly detailed blowups of thoracic cavities and shattered skulls...

Anyway a comment by the latter, one of those relative newbies, bursting with certainty of inexperience , really caught my eye. It was an almost perfect example of the psuedo historical claptrap that passes for scholarship..

Mr Barnard declares that the American education system was based on the Prussian system that taught people to " sleepwalk into WW2" 

No doubt he picked that nugget of wisdom up in some revision tome or other...

It would take a small booklet ( and someone far more familiar and knowledgeable about the intricacies of preWW1 Prussia) to fully expose that statement in all it's wrongheaded ahistorical glory but briefly...

Without doubt the German Empire acclaimed in the Hall of Mirrors, Versailles in 1871, after the triumphant conclusion of the Franco Prussian War was heavily influenced by Prussia. The King of Prussia ( Wilhelm I, the Kaiser's grandfather, veteran of the Napoleonic Wars,most famously the Battle of Leipzig) was the German Emperor, who despite the democratic window dressing of political parties, the Reichstag etc, was, in many respects an autocrat, appointing and dismissing Ministers at will

Saying that the other states ( Bavaria being the largest and most populous) maintained a certain autonomy within the Imperial structure. For example Bavaria retained it's own seperate army, civil service and of course it's Wittelsbach King.

Many of the German states( most notoriously Hesse Darmstadt, who's ruling Grand Duke was the father of the future Empress Alexandra of All the Russia's)
actually fought AGAINST the Prussian led North German Confederation.
The Franco Prussian War being the last of the three small(ish) wars in the 1860s/70s , the others being the Second Schleswig Holstein War against the Danes and crucially 1866s Austria Prussian War,  culminating at Konigsgratz. As devastating as it was brief( 7 weeks) this war confirmed Prussia as the pre eminent German state, at the expense of the ancient Hapsburg ruled Austrian Empire, a creaking worm eaten edifice of near feudal obsolescence, the defeat would hasten the tortuous process, ongoing since the failed Hungarian Revolution of 1848, a Revolution that was brutally crushed thanks to the assistance of the Russian Empire. Thus in 1867 the Dual Monarchy of Austria Hungary was proclaimed ( perhaps this new found sense of duality inspired some aspiring young biologist in a Budapest laboratory)

Austria( then Austria Hungary) lost its centuries old position of arbiter of the German speaking kingdoms( and states)..a sprawling labyrinthine patchwork spread across Central Europe.

Not only was education policy the fiercely guarded preserve of the seperate States, who sought to maintain every possible vestige of their independence, there was also the Catholic Church to deal with. Despite Bismarck's Kirchenkampf , a Concordat with the Vatican was agreed in 1871. Meaning that education in the Catholic states of Southern Germany( especially Bavaria) was massively influenced ( some might say directed) by the church, with their vast network of parochial schools and institutes( some Jesuit ) of Higher Education.

The Catholic influence was far less prevalent in the Protestant North, including Prussia( the Old Prussian Union being the largest protestant sect) but it was not altogether negligible. The future Pius XII was Papal Legate at the time

Mr Barnard overlooks the key dicotomy...yes the Prussians were taught to venerate the state, yes Wilhelmine Germany was an aggressively militarist state, lots of plump mustachioed men strutting around in garish uniforms and spiked pickelhauber helmets, but Imperial Germany was also one of, if not THE most liberal state on earth at time( old age pensions, trade unions,etc) The education system undoubtedly reflecting this . The ancient universities at the time were not only thriving, but they were in the vanguard . The venerable old Gothic edifices rejuvenated as centres of advanced technology and scientific thought. I can't remember the exact number but German scientists and academics ( including a large number of Jews who were subsequently hounded out ) won a dozen, maybe more Nobel Prizes in the early decades of the century..

Of course Mr Barnard overlooks this trifling detail too..... Prussia ceased to be a state after 1918*, thus the vast majority of active combatants in the Wehrmacht would have grown up in Weimar Germany, or Nazi Germany itself. Both educational systems, were in their different ways about as far removed from the Prussian system as it's possible to be...

And that's just  for starters...

You cannot hope to build a strong house on shoddy foundations...if this case is ever going to be taken seriously by the mainstream critics( however you choose to define them) have to be absolutely rigorous with their facts.

These fucking clowns read a few books and they think they're AJP Taylor...it takes years, decades even, before you can begin to understand the vast complexities of 20th century history, a lifetime perhaps..

Despite Jeremy and Jonathan Cohen's valiant efforts the thread descended into more Z fake daydreaming.. extraneous waffle and copious spurts of whataboutisms to disguise the obvious fact that none of these doughty spokesmen for alteration have the vaguest notion how or where or indeed why the film was faked .

They've totally inverted the fundamental laws of historical research and deductive reasoning..

They've reached their conclusion despite the evidence, or in this particular case without having the vaguest idea of what the evidence actually consists of...

* After WW1, the abdication of the Kaiser and the dissolution of the German Empire, Prussia ceased to be a sovereign state,. Prussia and indeed the other German states remained as federalised adminstrative zones with the Weimar Republic. For example it was Goering's appointment as Prussian Minister of the Interior that facilitated the creation of the repressive police apparatus ( LandespolizeiGeneralGoering) that would eventually evolve into the Geheim Staats Polizei, or Gestapo. Prussia , and along with the other states was abolished by the Nazis, who replaced the states with Gaue. I thought I'd better make that a little bit clearer


Last edited by alex_wilson on Fri 04 Jun 2021, 1:30 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Clarification regarding Prussia...)

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)
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