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alex_wilson
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Fri 27 Jan 2023, 1:22 am
Ive just finished reading,  although slogging through would probably be a more apt description,  the Allen Dulles/ " Yahtzee"( oh, what a card! She should be scripting ole Porcelain Thrones YouTube masterpieces) thread, over on the cranially enhanced forum of ill repute. 

I came away genuinely stunned,  sickened but not surprised by some of the comments. 

Characters who purport to be historians,  researchers and, even,  God forbid,  journalists,  yet again managed to transform a complicated multi layered problem into a series of sophomoric internet memes,  banal cliches and worse of all , toxic propaganda. 

Fuck Jim DiE and his tame poodle Jeff Carter,  and as for " journalist" Lori Spencer? Words fail me. As for Miss Barnard? Mistress of the dark arts of psychology and media manipulation,  I wonder if she's got a contract with Cliches R Us? Her posts are,  quite literally unreadable. Cliche piled on top of cliche.  It's a pity she's too stupid to appreciate the irony. The very embodiment of the unthinking zombie masses she excoriates with such witless banal monotony,  complaining about the pliable nature of the said masses. An absolute poseur,  a joker and a fud of the first magnitude. Her understanding of wider socio political/ military history every bit as unsophisticated as her understanding of the JFK assassination,  stuck in the kindergarten annex , listening to Miss Cole's lugubrious drone, as she finishes her latest finger painting,  " I call it two Bushes in Dealey Plaza " she giggles

But , in fairness the other side of this spurious " debate " aren't really doing themselves any favours either. 

Both sides seem hellbent on trivialising WW2, and by extension,  the Holocaust. 

Putin is no different to any other Russian ruler, stretching way bank to the times of Ivan Grozny and before. The Tsarist Empire builders, who were engaged in bitter centuries long struggles with the Ottoman Empire,  the  Persian Empire,  Swedish Empire,  the Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth,  the Golden Horde and the other heirs of the once invincible Mongol Empire to extend their territory. 

Likewise the their post Revolutionary heirs. Who attempted,  with varying degrees of success,  until 1945, to reclaim the territory lost in the aftermath of the 1917 revolution : sponsoring the Red Guards in the unsuccessful Finnish civil war in 1918, Polish Soviet War, and the brutal Soviet Polish Ukrainian war that was waged concurrently ( the Ukrainians,  were not only involved in a merciless civil war between the pro Soviet Red Guards and the Nationalists,  they were engaged in an equally brutal struggle against the Poles) were dedicated to ( especially under Stalin,  who despite being a Georgian was a notorious Greater Russian chauvinist. Along with Socialism in One Country his main preoccupation was with the Russians as the dominant " Big Brother " of the Soviet Republics) regaining the lost Tsarist Empire. If anything Stalin was determined to out Tsar the Tsars..

His response in May 1945 when congratulated for reaching Berlin was both characteristically pithy and laconic. 

It also offered a telling insight into his megalomaniac self perception( already underlined by the  Stalinist caricature of Ivan in Eisensteins 2 part Ivan the Terrible. In fact all actors playing Tsars and Russian heroes were careful to mimic Stalin's awkward pigeon toed gait and his reedy high pitched Georgian accent)

" Alexander  I reached Paris" ( Referring to Alexander's triumphant entry in 1815 after Napoleon's first defeat and exile to Elba)

To compare Putin to Stalin is understandable. Although in my opinion its a gross misreading of history. Reeking of false equivalence and presentism. Is Putin a thoroughly corrupt tyrant ruling over a kleptocratic state? Absolutely. But comparing him to the architect of the Holdomor,  the War on the Peasantry,  the Great Terror? The man who practically transformed slave labour into a national  economic system? The tyrant who,  with apologies to Mao Zedong and Genghis Khan,  is perhaps the greatest mass killer in human history? Too often history is turned in shorthand caricatures. In the process losing all real sense of scope and perspective. 

But to compare him to Hitler is yet another example of this apparent mania for trivialising the horrors of WW2. Hitler had a specific genocidal vision,  articulated way back in the 20s, in Mein Kampf,  dictated to the faithful Hess, while relaxing in Landsberg,  gazing out the window at the cars, dreaming his grotesque dreams, Barbarossa,  from the get go, back when it was known as Unternehmen Otto,  in the late summer of 1940, as the tentative plans were sketched out, was intended to be a Vernichstungkreig- A War of Annihilation. With the Ostplan,  the Hunger plan designed to remove upwards of 30 million " useless mouths " The crimes of the Nazi regime are perhaps unique in history. A highly cultured civilised nation embarking on a carefully planned campaign of industrialised mass murder, based on spurious psuedoscientific fantasies ( but fantasies that were closer to the contemporary scientific mainstream than is often admitted. Especially eugenics) There's something shockingly familiar about SD trucks appearing in gemutkilch Munich suburbs,  terrified people being dragged out of neat Berlin apartment blocks. Something profoundly disturbing,  a horror rooted deep in the subconscious,  just beneath the thin veneer of civilisation,  absent perhaps from the Western perception of brutal Soviet style barbarism. The collective farm, and the peasant villages. 

Perhaps that's why the comforting reassuring vision of the perpetrators as monsters is still entertained.  The all too familiar trope of the sadistic SS maniac. To disguise this awful sense of familiarity. The vast majority of the perpetrators were absolutely normal. The eyes staring out of those photographs are disconcerting,  unsettling. The holocaust,  as it happened,  could never have taken place without the passive compliance of the majority. Those fine upstanding citizens,  the " good Germans " who pretended not to notice. After all didn't Hitler,  albeit temporarily,  halt the T4 euthanasia programme,  after receiving complaints from the church? 

The War in the East was fought on such a scale,  employing such brutal inhumane methods  over 1200 villages for example torched in Belarus,  during the initial advance,  it still staggers the mind. 
The casualty figures too, were, and still remain unprecedented. Simply because both sides had no need to pander to public opinion. Thus 80- 90% casualties were deemed acceptable. 

The issue of collaboration is still perhaps THE greatest taboo in Russia,  and the Ukraine and the ex Soviet Republics too for that matter. ( along with the mass rapes,  often tacitly if not openly condoned by their superiors,  all the way up to Stalin,  who notoriously chided Djiljas,  his otherwise faithful Yugoslav lackey, at one of his infamous post war banquets/ bacchanalias, " can't a man have some fun with a woman ?" , was his half joking retort to the hapless Yugoslav communists mild complaint. The phenomenon of mass rape was not just inflicted on German/ Austrian womanhood,  but the women folk of supposed allies, Poland,  Yugoslavia etc, even Russians, newly liberated from the camps or from slave labour,  the so called Ostarbeiters)

Along with the cannon fodder who traded their pilotka cap and Red Army greatcoat for a black tunic , half a loaf of moldy bread and a handful of potatoes. Agreeing to serve their erstwhile tormentors to escape the torments of the POW cages or the arbeitslager,  the various nationalist movements,  especially in the Baltic Republics and the Ukraine willingly collaborated with the invaders. 

In many cases they were employed as shock troops, to do the dirty work. . First of all with the Einsatzgruppen,  as Trawniki men, guarding  both  the concentration and the extermination  camps, then with the Waffen  SS. There were Ukrainian,  Baltic,  as well as Hungarian and Albanian SS divisions formed in the latter stages of the war. There were also " Russian " units including Vlasovs ill fated ROA and the Kaminski brigade,  along with the Dirlewanger brigade,  perhaps the vilest most sadistic outfit in the entire SS. Their various exploits provoking outrage from individuals like Bach Zelewski,  hardly noted for their squeamish nature. 

To me the tragic conflict has echoes of similar bitter fratricidal conflicts,  poisoned by nationalism and burdened with the often toxic baggage of history. 

Like the Spanish Civil War,  a conflict between centuries old competing visions of Spain, that was hijacked and turned into a proxy war. A war still viewed through the distorted prism of what came after. 

To see this war being so cheapened, and turned into yet another opportunity to launch custard pies at each others bouncy castles, is not only despicable it once again highlights the utter dearth of nuanced thinking and the complete lack of an in depth ( or , in many cases,  a basic) knowledge of history. 

No wonder assassination research has been stuck in a quagmire for decades. 

Jim DiE and co dropping their trousers and grabbing their ankles before Tucker fucking Carlson reminds me of Charles Drago,  self styled outer of multi headed disinformation hydras and counter intelligence expert,  giggling and foaming with glee when Trine Day published Evicas last book..

WITH AN INTRODUCTION BY CHARLES ROBERT DRAGO 

Son of a CIA officer sets up publishing company which is nothing more than a conduit for the most noxious disinformational sludge,  thus contaminating any worthwhile volumes?

Nothing to see here. Move along. Let's concentrate on the reality important business,  weaponising the truth and outing poor deluded fantasists as insidious CIA taskforces...

Its actually worse than a joke...

To willingly join hands and make common cause with duplicitous agenda driven media sluts,  I mean Lori Spencer is pretty much the bottom of the barrel,  yet again displays the naivety,  crass egotism and lack of foresight that so characterises " mainstream research " 

They seem determined to outdo the very worst mainstream media stereotypes. 

The Oliver Stone of 2022/23 is not the same Oliver Stone who made JFK back in the early  90s 

He's a burnt out shell,  creatively speaking,  not to mention his horrendous lack of judgement. The recent documentary was not only a busted flush, a tepid retread, it was a colossal missed opportunity. Jim DiEs inability to see beyond his own bloated shadow and expand his chronic one dimensional understanding,  or lack of understanding. 

The them and us, LN/ CT dichotomy is an utter fucking waste of time. An intellectual dungeon. He refuses to expand his parameters. Worst of all is the unrealistic fanboyish vision of JFK, he consistently expounds. 

Not only is it unbelievably shallow it negates much of what made JFK into who he was. The perceived mortal threat to the entrenched establishment. 

Anyway,  I'm veering dangerously off topic. 

As someone who has studied Russian/ Ukrainian/ Eastern European history pretty closely I had to post something. I was just so fucking appalled and outraged by the dangerous imbecilic junk I was reading. 

Of course the war is an absolute tragedy. As all wars are. It's pretty obvious what Putin's intentions are,  the child after all is the father of the man. Putin,  the loyal servant of the security organs,  KGB lieutenant colonel,  based in East Berlin,  a front row seat as his lifes work disintegrated before his very eyes, has never forgotten and never forgiven. 

Nor have the coven of ex intelligence apparatchicks who merged seamlessly with the criminal gangs to seize the levers of power,  in the fallen nuclear superpower. 

Putin,  with premeditation and malice aforethought,  launched his campaign, using the most pernicious unbelievably spurious justification. However,  to view the unfolding tragedy through a myopic prism,  with one eye firmly closed,  ignoring the wider ramifications as outsider players try to manipulate the war, and perhaps more importantly,  how the war is perceived,  attempting to turn it into a de facto proxy war,  to sate their various geo political/ hegemonic strategies does not really help matters. Without sounding trite, or lapsing into proto Barnardian cliche,  as usual,  as in all wars throughout history it's the innocents on the ground who do the suffering,  while the armchair generals grow even more bloated and constipated,  thanks to their windy pontificating..

Russia today is the bastard son of the Soviet Union. All grown up now,  with no time for ridiculous ideologies,  although the imagery is still useful,  the Victory Banner for example, of the 79th regiment,  3rd Shock Army, Ist Belarusian Front,  hoisted above the ruins of the Reichstag. 

Its communist Russia sans the communist bit. A murderously kleptocratic vision of capitalism replacing the ridiculously quaint communist era cliches. 

However,  Ukraine is hardly what you could call a bastion of freedom and democracy. 



Hopelessly mired in institutionalised corruption, and, like all countries it has its own fair share of skeletons clanking around in the cupboard. But, to be fair Bandera wasn't quite the Nazi stooge he is being portrayed as. He was actually imprisoned by the Gestapo for refusing to rescind his Declaration of Ukrainian Independence. Only in September 1944, after Bagration was he released from prison. Nevertheless he was a thoroughly unpleasant individual,  putting it mildly,  who  espoused a horrendously twisted vision .Like the H and L  brigade before them , these fuckwits are once again trying to crowbar Paperclip ,and the various ill fated post WW2 emigre operations in, so they'll fit neatly into their own particular jaded narrative. 

To portray Allen Dulles as some kind of machiavellian supervillain is to grossly misread immediate post WW2 history. 

This is why I am so opposed to the alternative troofer brigade. Their vision of history is every bit as distorted,  one dimensional and agenda driven as the so called establishment history they purportedly oppose. Lies don't suddenly become true,  even if they are ( supposedly) serving a greater truth,  or in this case,  a greater troof. 

Jim DiE seems hellbent on sacrificing whatever credibility he once had to satisfy his ego. His increasingly clumsy attempts at justifying the unjustifiable,  trying to squeeze everything into fit his manichean one dimensional vision just further distorts his core argument...

To ban, or limit Jonathan's posting privileges for speaking out against some fucking religious nut while permitting the " journalist" Lori Spencer to use the forum,  and indeed the bare bones of what remains of the mainstream research community,  as platforms to pimp blatant pro Putin propaganda ( the tasteful Axis of Evil tweet anyone?) is a downright fucking disgrace. 

These cunts actually make Brian's narcissistic fantasies seem pretty tame in comparison..

If they genuinely think this approach is going to pay serious dividends in the run up to the 60th anniversary then they are seriously mistaken imho. 

Once again they are going to provide a juicy target for the mainstream media stooges. They'll be shot down in flames,  their evidence dismissed then ridiculed and the case will yet again be banished to the toxic hinterland of conspiracy dom. 

Bones for fucking idiots like Don Jeffries to peck at...

No doubt Donnie will be focusing his famously penetrating insight on this unfolding tragedy,  before clapping his hands and squealing,  " it's a conspiracy "

Aesthetics aside ( with his lank greasy hair , gormless expression and terrible dress sense he reminds me of the archetypal dirty old man,  gurning lasciviously at pornhub as if it was the Best Evidence " research video " and vice versa) its his sheer fucking stupidity,  not to mention his hapless attempts at duplicity that really irritates me...

Rant over. I'm away to watch ole Porcelain Thrones  latest YouTube blockbuster...

The ghost of JD Tippit murdered Mary Pinchot Meyer you say? Allen Tippit was the Zodiac Killer? It takes how many Jews to drive a mini over a cliff?"


Last edited by greg_parker on Fri 27 Jan 2023, 11:41 am; edited 7 times in total (Reason for editing : The CIA made me do it)

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty Re: How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Fri 27 Jan 2023, 12:15 pm
Alex, I made a conscious decision not to read that 13 Inch Head forum thread. 

But since you have made this reply, I did skim through the first couple of pages.

Seems to be the usual gang bickering over the usual tribal positions. 

I had not heard of Kim Iversen, but a quick check reveals she is an anti-Vaxxer who is also very concerned we are heading for climate lockdowns.

I didn't even know this was a "thing" among these propagandists. But lo and behold, the claim has been debunked - which of course is the ultimate proof that it must be true!
https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/factlab-meta/no-plan-for-a--climate-lockdown--in-oxford-city-in-england-

And I can't tell you how shocked I am to learn that Lori Spencer is a journalist. Wow. How fucked-up is that?

I agree that these people could potentially cause the 60th to be a complete and utter shambles. From Tucker "The Stunned Mullet" Carlson through to an unfortunately increasingingly addled Oliver Stone. Meanwhile the 13 Inch Head All-Star Chorus is squabbling over which hymn book to sing from when it is the same hymn book, except some are holding it upside down and pretending it is Sanskrit or Cyrillic or something even more exotic handed down by The Nine Masters of the Ancient Wisdom.

I do think you have gone a bit hard on Jimmy di who I think/hope is still salvagable if he would extract himself from this, and other nonsense.

As usual, a great read and a valuable lesson in real history.

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
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Vinny
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty Re: How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Fri 27 Jan 2023, 8:53 pm
https://lorispencer.wordpress.com/2023/01/27/who-did-hitler-hate-more-than-jews/

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alex_wilson
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty Re: How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Fri 27 Jan 2023, 9:50 pm
Thanks Greg and thanks for posting this Vinny. 

Talk about shameless cherry picking and distortion! 

These characters have absolutely no shame. Integrity to them is a dirty word. They're not remotely interested in learning about history,  or, God forbid,  trying to learn FROM history. Their aim is not to deepen their understanding and broaden their outlook,  but to ensure it remains as narrow as possible. 

All history: be it the JFK assassination,  WW2, or the Cold War are merely prospective tools to be exploited,  then manipulated and served up as propaganda. 

To claim " Hitler hated communists more than the jews" is a wilful misinterpretation. A thoroughly scurrilous,  downright malicious attempt to not only distort history,  but also to deny. This spurious " argument ' is often trotted out,  as a sort of prelude to full scale holocaust denial. 

In the grotesquely twisted netherworld of Nazi " philosophy " Jews and Communism were inextricably intertwined. The stereotypical image of the Judeo Bolshevik commissar, especially post Barbarossa was one of the propagandists favourite tools. A thoroughly vile image, encapsulating the most sordid and debased Nazi racial fantasies.

The relatively recently discovered notation in Himmlers daily diary, recording a meeting with Hitler ( and,  if my memory serves me correctly,  Heydrich) to discuss the pressing issue of how best to dispose of the millions of Soviet Jews, captured in the summer of 41, when the massed columns of the Wehrmacht,  in 3 huge army groups,  were surging remorselessly ( seemingly unstoppable) onwards,  deep into the hinterland of Mother Russia,  leaving an unprecedented trail of death and destruction in their terrible wake

" Exterminate them as partisans " was the Fuhrers matter of fact reply. 

Imho she purposefully,  and with malicious intent,  not only cherry picks but wilfully decontextualises,  the historical record. Although it had developed from,  and owed much of its imagery to,  the long established anti semitic traditions of mitteleuropa ( Hitler, a child of the decaying decrepit Austro Hungarian Empire was most certainly deeply influenced by this, especially the anti semitic populism of Karl Lueger,  the mayor of Vienna) Nazi anti semitism developed into biological racism,  purportedly supported by psuedoscientific notions such as eugenics.

Perhaps , in retrospect I was a little too hard on Jim DiE. It's hard to accept,  when you realise someone who you once respected has feet,  not to mention a mind of clay. 

Maybe I'm just being my usual trollish hyperbolic self, but , for whatever reason,  some characters seem absolutely determined to leave the most basic lessons of history unlearned. To keep making the same old mistakes,  over and over again. 

Most especially this seeming unquenchable desire to reduce all arguments to tribalised bun fights.
Hurling their cliches,  their brickbats and their despicable propaganda tropes at each other,  each side secure in their sense of righteousness. 

A sense that in reality is every bit as secure as the foundations of their wonderful new bouncy glass castle/ house, the genius engineer/ philosopher/ expert in forensic orthodontics etc etc.,  Professor Sanford Larsen built them, on either side of the shiny bridge he bought,  in Sandy River,  Arizona....

_________________
A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty Re: How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Sat 28 Jan 2023, 10:50 am
Lori \"Keet" Spencer over at the 13 inch head forum wrote:...Do you even know who Stepan Bandera was, or what he did? Can you explain why he is “hero of Ukraine?” Why his birthday is a national holiday, when thousands march in the streets waving Yahtzee flags and do their fascist right arm salutes? Do you know what “Slava Ukraini” really means?...
Lori is a witting or unwitting dupe of Russian propaganda.

Bandera was born on Jan 1 and that has been a public holiday for a long long time in the Ukraine. Yes, his name was part of a  list in 2018 of commemorative and anniversary dates but it was never mandated as a public holiday. Yes, some do hold parades on Jan 1 to commemorate his birthday - but only because they can, not because it is mandated - and the numbers doing so have been dwindling (although to be fair, that might have been due to factors such as Covid). 

In any case, the story of his name appearing on the 2018 list was turned into the lie by TASS and other agencies about it being made a public holiday, and that lie was swallowed wholsesale by the likes of the Lori-keet.

How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  9k=
"Rainbow lorikeets are excellent talkers, and they can learn to say many words and phrases. They are noisy birds and have a high-pitched tone with frequent squawks. Their sometimes shrill vocaizations can be abrasive and unpleasant to some people."

The Lori-keet also has an interview lined up with a former UK labor politician, George Galloway - now running the ahem UK Workers' Party. I had never heard of the guy. You would know far more about him than me, Alex, but a few quick checks show him to be another anti-Semite gatekeeper for deeper darker groups. A bit like Donnie, I would think, but I'll stand corrected.

In other Lori-keet related news, I hear she is going to play Miss Ann Trope in the modern version of the Bob Hope Classic, retitled Lancey Pants - this after a stellar performance with Hope and Crosby in The Road to Kiev - a Big K production.

Lancey Pants will be about a Mid-Eastern civil lawyer venturing into the mid-West where a range war is taking place between the Krochites and the Needlenuts.  Lori will play the love interest and sharp-shooting savior of the hapless all-singing, all-dancing Lancy Pants. They say the script is a riot.

And the sex scene between the pair is said to rival even that infamous scene in Behind the Green Frog. What Miss Piggy did with that black pudding still haunts me.


Last edited by greg_parker on Sun 29 Jan 2023, 12:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  Empty Re: How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head

Sat 28 Jan 2023, 11:15 am
greg_parker wrote:
Lori \"Keet" Spencer over at the 13 inch head forum wrote:...Do you even know who Stepan Bandera was, or what he did? Can you explain why he is “hero of Ukraine?” Why his birthday is a national holiday, when thousands march in the streets waving Yahtzee flags and do their fascist right arm salutes? Do you know what “Slava Ukraini” really means?...
Lori is a witting or unwitting dupe of Russian propaganda.

Bandera was born on Jan 1 and that has been a public holiday for a long long time in the Ukraine. Yes, his name was part of a  list in 2018 of commemorative and anniversary dates but it was never madated as a public holiday. Yes, some do hold parades on Jan 1 to commemorate his birthday - but only because they can, not because it is mandated - and the numbers doing so have been dwindling (although to be fair, that might have been due to factors such as Covid). 

In any case, the story of his name appearing on the 2018 list was turned into the lie by TASS and other agencies about it being made a public holiday, and that lie was swallowed wholsesale by the likes of the Lori-keet.

How to find a fur cap to fit your 13 inch head  9k=
"Rainbow lorikeets are excellent talkers, and they can learn to say many words and phrases. They are noisy birds and have a high-pitched tone with frequent squawks. Their sometimes shrill vocaizations can be abrasive and unpleasant to some people."

The Lori-keet also has an interview lined up with a former UK labor politician, George Galloway - now running the ahem UK Workers' Party. I had never heard of the guy. You would know far more about him than me, Alex, but a few quick checks showshim to be another anti-Semite gatekeeper for deeper darker groups. A bit like Donnie, I would think, but I'll stand corrected.

In other Lori-keet related news, I hear she is going to play Miss Ann Trope in the modern version of the Bob Hope Classic, retitled Lancey Pants - this after a stellar performance with Hope and Crosby in The Road to Kiev - a Big K production.

Lancey Pants will be about a Mid-Eastern civil lawyer venturing into the mid-West where a range war is taking place between the Krochites and the Needlenuts.  Lori will play the love interest and sharp-shooting savior of the hapless all-singing, all-dancing Lancy Pants. They say the script is a riot.

And the sex scene between the pair is said to rival even that infamous scene in Behind the Green Frog. What Miss Piggy did with that black pudding still haunts me.
This is an English translation of part of the 2018 resolution on memorable anniversaries in the Ukraine for 2019. It shows the entry for Bandera and the entries either side of him.

ІІ. Outstanding personalities:

240 years since the birth of Alexander Zasyadko (1779-1838), artillery engineer, missile designer;

January 1 - 110 years since the birth of Stepan Bandera (1909–1959), a leading figure and theorist of the Ukrainian national liberation movement, chairman of the Board of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists , politician ;

January 6 - 80 years since the birth of Valery Lobanovsky (1939-2002), coach, football player;
-------------

To underline the issue, if it had been the 109th anniversary of Bandera's birthday, he would not have been on the list at all. It was a one off recognition of milestone dates and the list was compiled by the previous administration to Zelensky.


Last edited by greg_parker on Sun 29 Jan 2023, 12:19 am; edited 1 time in total

_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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Sat 28 Jan 2023, 8:14 pm
Jim Di seems to be slipping up quite a bit nowadays. He seems to be supporting several dubious characters.

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Sun 29 Jan 2023, 1:02 am
Greg,  regarding " Gorgeous "(sic) George Galloway you hit the nail on it's 13 inch head 

A self promoter, political shyster,  professional anti semite and race hustler ( and that's being INCREDIBLY polite) of the lowest order. A rent a gob rabble rouser and one stop shop propagandist for any murderous dictator,  corrupt tyrant and extremist who have cocked their snook at any one of the Satans ( Great, Little or Size Zero Satan,  an emaciated coke addled strumpet- satan,  last seen tottering around Soho on a pair of suitably satanic platform heels), and crucially, who have the ( oil or blood soaked) shekels to help pay for his expensive tastes in natty headwear ( a shoo in, or so I would have thought,  on philosophical,  as well as sartorial terms for a certain forum of our acquaintance)

From reasonably humble beginnings as a local Labour politician in his native Dundee, he soon gravitated to Glasgow,  where he was elected as the Labour MP for Glasgow Hillhead ( Glasgow University constituency) he set out on a long ignoble career of bandwagon jumping,  race baiting,  embracing any anti semite, anti Western loudmouth,  including numerous hardline terrorist fronts/ facilitators. But, then and now,  his primary focus was self promotion. He would say or do anything for attention. The very epitome of tabloid fodder, the bread and circuses mentality 

A thoroughly squalid individual 

He was eventually booted out of the Labour party. His shenanigans have been nothing less than shameful. Including one notorious incident, when he was filmed schmoozing with none other than Saddam Hussein, " sir I salute your indefatigabity " 

He turned up at the US Senate, giving an Oscar worthy performance,  of affronted self righteous gasbaggery,  obviously he had discovered a copy of Rogets amidst his back issues of Pravda,  Der Sturmer and The  Daily Anti Semite, sorry,  of course I mean Daily Worker, as he deployed a tongue twisting arsenal of archaic argot like the contra punctual precupuscular rambunctious absinthe soaked jackanapes he undoubtedly is.

His main claim to fame,  these days, over here in Blighty apart from a surreal vomit inducing appearance on the hard hitting current affairs flagship that is Celebrity Big Brother,  dressed up,  and I kid you not,  as a fucking pantomime cat, the ultimate pussy in boots. Notoriously,  while crawling around on his hands and knees,  he mimed licking milk from the hands of some wizened old actress, is his wholehearted embrace of militant Islam. Barely bothering to hide his blatant anti semitism 

An utter fucking disgrace. A self styled gadfly,  who, in fact,  is nothing more than a shamelessly duplicitous bullshit artist and media prostitute. Like those hapless dolts who batted their doe eyes wistfully at the Soviet Union,  dreaming of living in the paradise on earth that was the Worker's State, and those despicable hypocrites and traitors,  Philby,  Burgess, Blunt,  Maclean and Cairncross,  who betrayed their country but who still demanded their suits from Savile Row. ( the workers paradise apparently being acceptable in principle,  not practice) Galloway should have the courage of his convictions and vacate his sumptuous London townhouse for a pied a terre in leafy Kazakhstan,  downtown Damascus,  or I hear Omsk is just lovely at this time of year 

The defectors I met never ceased to be amazed by the gullibility of the hardline communist groupies they encountered. " Have they any idea what it's like to actually live in the Soviet Union?"

As an aside,  before I'm accused of being a " Russophobe " by Lorikeet,  or one of her feathery brood,  I have a deep abiding love of Russian culture,  literature,  history,  not to mention the Russian people. But loving someone,  or something shouldn't blind you to their flaws. Most Russians abhor Putin and the grotesque kleptocracy he has created. The simple minded view life in simple terms,  yearning for simplistic dogma,  most notably them and us. 

Nationalism is one of THE great poisons of this, and indeed, any age.

But , back to Galloway,  as loquacious and long winded as I am, I simply don't have the stomach or the fortitude to go through each individual scandal. The sham that was his Respect party, his repellent attitude towards women. Nowadays he pimps himself out to the highest bidder. Lorikeet appeared on his tastefully titled " talkshow", " The Mother of All Talk Shows ", a chummy nod to his fallen idol, rather one of his fallen idol's,  Saddam's infamous proclamation. Hosted by the Russian State broadcaster 

In his ( meagre) defence however,  he is certainly further up(  lower down?) the Idiocracy foodchain than Don Jeffries. Unlike Don, who is one of natures bottom feeders,  too stupid to realise just how fucking stupid he is, Galloway can at least manage to string a coherent sentence,  and thought together,  without giggling inanely,  or mentioning the C word.

Saying that,  Galloway is the sort o low rent ambulance chasing guttersnipe hustler Jeffries dreams of being. 

Putin does not represent Russia. He represents the perverted face of multi national kleptocracy and criminality. Russian history,  culture and ideology are merely props to be exploited. 

But, of course the actual facts are irrelevant to the likes of Lorikeet,  they are only of use if they can me made to serve their particular agenda 

To see our 13 inch headed chums practically trip over each other's doppelgangers to embrace such blatant shysters,  welcoming them aboard as fellow troofseekers makes me sick. 

I can't understand how reasonably intelligent people can be so naive and so blind. They are using the assassination as a Trojan horse for their darker motives and their hateful agendas. 

I couldn't give a fuck if Lorikeet thinks Oswald , James Files or Hattie fucking Jacques shot JFK, I would do everything I possibly could to distance myself from such  a blatant propagandist. 

Maybe I should check to see if  the multi headed disinformation hydra is still hiding under my bed, or brush up on my DRAGO Evica Conspiracy Model,  ( Lee HARVEY Confucius say " Woman who fly upside down in airplane has crack up and even those who knew themselves to be the True Sponsors were not in fact the True Sponsors ") but I don't think its a coincidence, these characters starting to leap aboard the assassination bandwagon as the 60th anniversary,  potentially the last significant anniversary before the event starts to fade from living memory,  dawns 

There's nothing shameful about admitting ignorance. Accepting ignorance,  after all,  is the first step towards attaining wisdom. However, to remain wilfully ignorant in spite of the facts, is absolutely fucking shameful.

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Sun 29 Jan 2023, 11:02 am
Lori Spencer: Veteran Journalist - um, yeah - nah!

Although music is Lori's primary area of expertise, she is also well-versed in a variety of other subjects including film 


https://truthsocial.com/@LoriSpencer

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Roger Odisio
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Sun 29 Jan 2023, 5:17 pm
I know a bit about Galloway.  Have watched him and read some of his stuff. I know he hates capitalism almost as much as I do.  He called out the war criminals, starting with Tony Blair, who ran the Iraq war.   Today, he has many important people I want to hear from on his talk show that the MSM blacks out.
 
I don't recognize him in your rant.
 
Let me me concentrate on what seems to be one of your major points about Galloway--that he is an anti-semite.  Threshold question:  do you distinguish between the terms, anti-semite and anti-Israel? 
 
When Jeremy Corbin ran in the last election there was an organized, massive campaign claiming he too was an anti-semite.  Do you think Corbin is an anti-semite?  Corbin has a long history of supporting Palestinian rights and abhoring their treatment in Israel.  Is it possible to be like that, to do those things, and *not* be an anti-semite?
 
I am virulently anti-Isreal.  The apartheid state run by despicable murderers, if that helps clarify your answer.
 

Or maybe you have information about Galloway's character I don't have.  If so, I'm all ears.
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Sun 29 Jan 2023, 10:02 pm
I'm sorry if I offended you Roger, and I'm sorry you felt the need to use such pejorative terms. I don't mean to offend you further,  but it seems you have missed the main thrust of what,  you rather uncharitably referred to as a rant, focusing mainly ( but, to be fair not exclusively) on anti semitism. Imho Galloway has been seduced,  through a mixture of egotism,  thirst for power/ status, and, perhaps initially by naivety,  into becoming a marionette. A puppet,  albeit a very articulate one, deployed by those who pull the strings to maintain the divisions. Tribal,  ethnic, political and religious. First and foremost he's,  rather he's transmogrified into a self publicist and a rent a gob tabloid buffoon 

To answer your questions first: Do I think Jeremy Corbyn was anti semitic? Absolutely not. He was fundamentally a decent,  if naive man. Poorly advised and ill prepared to deal with the venomous snakepit of frontline British politics. Having spent the majority of his career, relatively speaking,  on the fringes,  when he found himself in the centre of the maelstrom,  espousing politics the entrenched political and financial classes found intolerable they proceeded to whistle up their hatchet men, who proceeded to have a field day. The British press are notoriously brutal 

I take it are an American ( if I'm wrong please accept my apologies) so perhaps you aren't aware of the no holds barred mentality that is the norm in the British press. And the long established business/ financial and political ties, as symbiotic as they are practically incestuous,  that ties certain political parties to certain newspapers and latterly TV companies. 

Do I think Galloway is an anti semite? As far as it is possible for him to be, yes. But primarily he is a self serving showman,  regarded as a buffoon. His initial good intentions corrupted by his venality and his ego.

Have you ever listened to his various speeches,  recorded at his constituency? Calling for jews to be wiped off the face of the earth? Does he believe it? Probably not. He'll say and do whatever it takes for popularity. 

Roger, just because I criticize Galloway doesn't mean I'm a rabid pro war Blairite. I happen to have a pretty good insight into Blair's background. Although he comes from a different generation and went to a different school,  I know the milieu. 

He was a child of the British upper middle classes. A public schoolboy groomed from a young age to slip neatly into the professional classes,  or, if he had the wit or desire to tug on the old school tie just that little bit harder, the ruling class. 

Britain,  despite its democratic pretensions and it's carefully nurtured centuries old delusions ( Magna Carta,  Lollards, Levellers, Glorious Revolution,  Chartists,  Great Reform Act etc etc.) is, and always has been,  a plutocracy. The system being established ( albeit with occasional mostly cosmetic refinements) in the days of Walpole 

Ironically,  in his own way Blair,  initially was similar to Galloway. A populist popularity seeker. Despite his early foray into left wing politics ( a not to uncommon rite of passage) his DNA eventually came to the fore. From the early 90s through to the millennium , guided by his core advisors,  including the dreaded Mandelson , ex Comrade Brown and ex soft porn scribe and tabloid hack extraordinaire,  Alistair Campbell,  he was a pretty shrewd political opportunist,  who , to be fair,  despite the glutinous PR excesses,  passed some pretty progressive legislation. 

Then came the fall. His conversion by born again Brutha W of the Church of the Latter Day Morons ( qv Private Eye)

I know ( albeit slightly) Andrew Gilligan,  but I couple of friends I went to university with know him very well. As you very rightly point out he was most certainly a war criminal. Seduced by the aura of power, and, what he thought was,  the sirens call of History and destiny. In fact it was the rumblings of B52s taking off. Trading in whatever values he may, or may not once possessed,  he became Dubyas deputy,  perma smile salesman of death. A liar, charlatan and tool of the multi national arms industry. 

Gilligan,  the infamous Dodgy dossier,  Dr David Kelly's suspiciously untimely demise,  is one of those dark corners,  roped off by gatekeepers,  anyone who dares investigate are immediately branded ' conspiracy theorists "

Israel and the middle east has been transformed into a grotesque religious theme park. A relatively simple problem ( 2 stare solution) has been made unsolvable by fanatics on all sides, brandishing their holy books,  basking in their unique godliness and screaming about their indivisible holy lands. . 

Israel is a country. Of course I can criticize a country. You,I  and everyone have,  or should have the right and the free will to criticise whatever they disagree with. 

I'm sorry Roger, I absolutely reject the validity of your question. Even the thought of answering it makes me feel uncomfortable. I'm not anti anything.  A wholly negative destructive approach. 

Unfortunately I'm not convinced many people who purport to be anti Israel aren't simply using that expression to mask darker motives. Should Israel be exempt from criticism. Absolutely and categorically not. In fact most Israelis find their governments actions repellent. 

I'm sorry Roger, the whole them and us tribalism is what I object to most of all. Nationalism and religion are the twin plagues of humanity. Until and unless there are leaders/ politicians,  call them what they will, who have the courage and insight to see beyond the flags, the religious and tribal allegiances and recognize the common humanity that unites us all,  we're all- Muslim, Jew, Hindu, Sikh,  Christian,  Atheist,  Pagan going to be stuck in this self destructive treadmill. 

If you are pro this you must be anti that. It's all just bullshit. 

Incidentally,  if you think Galloway is a staunch class warrior and anti capitalist,  I would check out his property portfolio. 

Here in Britain,  he, quite rightly in my opinion is treated, for the most part,  as an object of derision. 

To criticise Israel doesn't mean you have to stand before a hall full of activists shrieking Death to America and Israel,  does it? An salivating over the prospect of Israel being wiped off the face of the earth?

Or agreeing to share the platform with notorious holocaust deniers? Or accepting money from countries whose school textbooks deny the reality of the Holocaust?

To despise Tony Blair as the immoral hypocrite and war criminal he is doesn't mean you have to support murderous dictators? Or host a talk show on Russian state sponsored media called the Mother of All Talk Shows?

Why does religion have to even come into it? I'm sorry Roger, while I fully accept and agree that anti semitism is used to smear pro Palestinian anti Israsli campaigners, there is a very real,  a very dangerous and poisonous symbiosis between the two . You can't seriously deny that,  can you?

Just like everyone who accepts the historical truth of the assassination aren't necessarily on the right side of other controversial issues,  people who are against Israel's government/ military atrocities shouldn't automatically be exempt from criticism. 

It's the very nature of the question,  how it is framed, I am fundamentally opposed to. 

Growing up in Glasgow I saw first hand how people's religious/ political affiliations were manipulated. 


Galloway is what Glaswegians refer to as " gallus ", a wide boy, a chancer. I don't doubt he began his career with the best of intentions. If you think he is a serious politician,  who actually cares about the issues he purportedly supports, I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with you. 

I hope I have answered your questions satisfactorily. If not,  I apologise. If you would like to continue this discussion I'd be happy to, ive got the recordings of Galloway in action, and  several film clips, at home,  however as I am not there at the moment I can't upload them. If you want I'd be happy to do so. I'm pretty sure theres a documentary available on Channel 4 on demand. 

I won't insult you by asking you the same sort of question. But I wonder if you have taken the time to ask yourself?

I make absolutely no apologies for criticising characters like Jeffries. Who consort with open holocaust deniers. And who 1 share similar views  2 through sheer ignorance or lack of critical awareness allow themselves to be manipulated into spreading their toxic lies.

Anti semitism is a very real phenomenon. And its growing,  sprouting up like weeds from the barren soil of the troofosphere,  fertilised by gullible stooges or like minded purveyors of hatred. 

Maybe I'm just being trite, hyperbolic or hopelessly utopian,  but I'd rather be for something than against anything.

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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Mon 30 Jan 2023, 1:46 am
Alex Wilson wrote:Unfortunately I'm not convinced many people who purport to be anti Israel aren't simply using that expression to mask darker motives. 
Alex, that is precisely what I had in mind when I said of Galloway that he appears to be "another anti-Semite gatekeeper for deeper darker groups."  Being opposed to the state of Israel can be and is used as cover for anti-Sematism. I was not sure if that is where he sits, or not.

A bit more googling though shows an example of Galloway using such cover in a tweet that was thinly-veiled anti-Semitism, with that thin veil designed to protect him. It didn't. Instead, even Murdoch had had enough and fired him. 

I have now read some anti and pro Galloway material. Enough to form the view that your portrait of him is spot on. A populist, a champaigne socialist, a media whore.

Roger, you say he is anti-capitalist. So are fascists. In fact, I am sure that is where the UK would end up if he ever took control - as a fascist state. 

Does he even really try to hide the form of socialism he prefers? From the name of his party, though to his pro-Brexit stance and media whoring, he wears the personna of all aspiring dictators. 

Key words in political party names that probably mean the party is fascist "national", "peoples", "free", "freethinkers", "Christian" (or insert other other fairy tale brands of your choice) -- and of course, "workers".  This wanker says he is a communist AND a Christian. That is about as sane and plausable as Oswald's imitation of a Marxist Marine. 


Should Israel be exempt from criticism? Absolutely and categorically not. In fact most Israelis find their governments actions repellent. 
As someone who has stood for political office, I can attest to the fact that the pro-Palestinian lobby is well-organized and ready to push its agenda hard during elections, and goes to some lengths to assess the position of all aspiring politicians. I spent a great deal of time during that election, replying to constituents emails on this very topic. As a lobby, it was second only to the fucking evangelicals who I delighted in tormenting with logic in my replies. As for the pro-Palestinian lobby -  let me put it this way - I don't think I lost any votes with them. 


Roger Odisio wrote:Today, he has many important people I want to hear from on his talk show that the MSM blacks out.
Checking recent guests
Chris Hedges - Russian sponsored "leftie"
The Lorikeet - what a coup that was getting her.
 
That's basically it, The other 7 or 8 I checked just seemed to be him solo, mainly engaged in pushing the pro-Russian line.

"Alternative" media (especially if they stick the word "truth" in the title somewhere because they wouldn't lie - not being the MSM and all), is really no different to the MSM. 

Alex used the term "incestuous" to describe the relationship the MSM has with political parties and big business. But that extends to the relationship it has with the feted few who get invited to nod at the talking heads. They go back to the same people over and over again when they want external opinions. 

The "aternative" media does the same. In fact, since it is smaller, it is far more obvious. They do the rounds of each others shows. Guests who are not fellow podcasters, are invited on to sell their books or whatever, and are well-known from appearing in OTHER podcasts in the alt.sphere. Does it matter if a host is anti-Semitic or rubs shoulders with white supremicists? Does it matter if the host spreads dangerous health advice? Does it matter if the host spends most of the show dog whistling and gaslighting? Not to those selling their books - and not to the gullible hordes who listen in, safe in the belief that if it is "alternative", it must be true. Kind of like a JFK theory, no matter how fucked-up, must be true (or at worst, can't be criticized) if it falls in the conspiracy column.

The arseholes you refer to Roger, are making a buck out of exploiting the valid skepticism of government among the working poor and the over-educated stupid. 

Of course, I am painting with a very broad brush. Some governments don't deserve  skepticism (Ardern, NZ).  Nor do some MSM news outlets (SBS, Australia), Nor possibly some "alternative" media. But I'll have to think about who the exceptions might be there. Certainly not Gorgeous George. His "hatred" of capitalism does not make him a good guy.


Last edited by greg_parker on Mon 30 Jan 2023, 11:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mon 30 Jan 2023, 1:00 pm
A fascist movement does not arise from the bad will of malicious demagogues. Neither is a radicalised labour movement created by the propaganda of revolutionists. Both are products of the incurable crisis of capitalism, which renders it unable to maintain a stable rule through the old bourgeois democratic forms. One way or another—these forms will be changed. The latent crisis, which has been artificially suppressed and disguised by war and military expenditures, promises to break out with redoubled fury in the coming period. This will spell impoverishment and misery for tens of millions of people, and it will generate an enormous discontent with the hopeless state of affairs. The unfailing result will be a widespread desire for a radical change.


This mass discontent and desire for a change can take one of two forms, or both of them at the same time.


The workers are the strongest power in modern society. If they show a resolute will to take hold of the situation and effect the necessary revolutionary change, the millions of desperate middle-class people—impoverished farmers, bankrupt small businessmen and white-collar elements—who have no independent power of their own, will follow the workers and support them in their struggle for power. This was demonstrated in the Russian Revolution of November 1917.
James Cannon, 1954

Workers are no longer even relevant to the political landscape in the US or the UK. They have been splintered, disempowered, trivialized, marginalized, but never mestasticized. The remnants have formed allegiances in variations of the so-called Libertarian riff - cover for the paleocon Libertarian Strategy

You can see it in the various movements that have sprung up around vaccines and lockdowns - former lefties and hippies with nothing but love and peace, weed and music on their minds suddenly standing sifde by side with white nationalists, anti climate change and anti-vaxx chancers selling candles and horse medicine. 

Those looking for politcal action outside of the fool's paradise of the mainstream, really have 2 choices, even if many flags are hoist and flown under various names. Neocons vs paleocons. Pick a side. If you are not a paleocon, you're a neocon - an epithet that Donnie Jeffries has hurled at me. As someone outside of the US, it took me ages to understand the mess his mind is in from living in his bubble, and the kind of fucked-up logic it produces - with me being a neocon a prime example.

This is the bullshit you are caught up in, Roger.  The alt.sphere is dominated by the paleocons under various flags. 

The US and the UK are one crackpot youtuber away from falling into fascism. And that fucking hurts me to say because I love and respect all of my US and UK friends here and on social media, even if never having personally met any of you.

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Mon 30 Jan 2023, 11:32 pm
Of course, I am painting with a very broad brush. Some governments don't deserve  skepticism (Ardern, NZ).  Nor do some MSM news outlets (SBS, Australia), Nor possibly some "alternative" media. But I'll have to think about who the exceptions might be there. Certainly not Gorgeous George. His "hatred" of capitalism does not make him a good guy.

Okay. his name should have came to me at the time. Mark Groubert is certainly an exception. He makes some great points in this interview and brings an earthy humor to what he does. 


_________________
Australians don't mind criminals: It's successful bullshit artists we despise. 
              Lachie Hulme            
-----------------------------
The Cold War ran on bullshit.
              Me


"So what’s an independent-minded populist like me to do? I’ve had to grovel in promoting myself on social media, even begging for Amazon reviews and Goodreads ratings, to no avail." 
Don Jeffries

"I've been aware of Greg Parker's work for years, and strongly recommend it." Peter Dale Scott

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Tue 31 Jan 2023, 2:02 am
Looks like I've poked a hornet's nest.  A long response from you, Alex, and 3 more from Greg. I'm going to have to marshal my time.
 
You didn't offend me.  Btw, I used "rant" because I thought you used it to describe one of your long posts.  No pejorative intended and in fact I don't see the word itself as a pejorative. 
 
I agree with some of what of you said.  Our differences are real however, but not, I think, intractable.
 
I agree about Corbin. There's an interesting parallel in British and American politics.  You had Thatcher, Blair, and Corbin.  The US had Reagan, the Clintons and Bernie at the same time.  The results for each were the same; wins for the first two and a loss for the last.  And the reasons for Corbin's and Bernie's losses were very similar.
 
Because he was at least willing to criticize the war machine, Corbin was better than Bernie.  But both were swallowed up by the same forces--mainly members of their own party and the media.  I know something about your media and your description fits ours as well.  Both men were ineffectual in responding, tho each faced powerful opposition.
 
You said Galloway was a "professional" and "blatant" anti-semite, and a "thoroughly squalid individual".  Professional meaning what?  Anti-semitism is not something occasional that he tries to hide, but is integral to the professional persona he presents to the world?.  It's integral to his very thought process?
 
Since I had not picked up any of that in the time I have known of him--probably quite the opposite--your assessment seemed over the top to me. I respect many of his opinions and he certainly gives a platform to people I want to hear from that the MSM ignores.  I ignore the MSM's propaganda myself and am always looking for others who can help me understand things.
 
Antisemitism is a serious charge so I asked for more information. I asked some elementary questions, like do you distinguish between anti-semitism and criticism of Israel--a distinction bad actors try to obscure. To make sure we are on the same page.  Sorry if the basic notion of the questions offended.
 
But more than that, I've seen the term weaponized by unscrupulous people around the world (you not among them) to destroy their enemies.  What was done with a pack of lies about anti-semitism to Corbin and the Labor Party itself is one example.  Calling someone an anti-semite is a powerful tool because the US and Israel have made it so to serve their interests.  It must be used judiciously by others. 
 
Secondly, and related to the first point, I see a technique being used time and again of attacking the messenger to obscure the message.  (No I'm not accusing you of doing that either.)  
 
A quick story.  A few days before the Democratic Convention in 2016,  Assange announced he was going to release Hillary's emails.  They contained all kinds of damaging information, including details of how she was cheating Bernie out of any chance at the party's nomination.
 
The Clinton gang got together that weekend to devise a strategy.  They decided to claim the emails were stolen by the Russians intent on damaging her.  The idea was  to distract attention from what was *in* the emails.  I happened to be watching an interview with Clinton's campaign manager, Robbie Mook, that weekend. When asked about the emails he simply said they were stolen by "the Russians" and given to Assange.  He didn't even have to claim the Russians altered them or explain how he knew this.  (It's now clear it was a lie,)  

He had for all intents and purposes replaced discussion of their contents with a new headline, which the complicit media ran with.  "Russiagate" was born and is still alive all these years later (a few fools on EF have recently still been claiming its true). It worked.  It became even more useful when Clinton lost the election.  Russia caused that too. 
 
Galloway is a major media figure who says and does some good things.  To me it matters much more what effect he has on the public discourse than any personal foible he might have. If you think his alleged anti-semitism is more than a personal foible. if it colors all, or most of what he says and does, again, I haven't noticed any of that.  But I'll watch for it.
 
In any case his effect on the public debate is what should concern you and me.
 
You also said:  I'm sorry Roger, while I fully accept and agree that anti semitism is used to smear pro Palestinian anti Israsli campaigners, there is a very real,  a very dangerous and poisonous symbiosis between the two . You can't seriously deny that,  can you?"
 
RO:  I'm not sure what this means but I found it a bit troubling.  There is a poisonous symbiosis between pro Palestinian and anti Israeli positions? Is that what you mean?  Because one can be used to hide the other?
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alex_wilson
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Tue 31 Jan 2023, 3:07 am
No problems at all Roger. 

Yes, we may have our differences but the very fact we can discuss them respectfully is , imho, far more important than the actual differences themselves. My own opinions are always changing ( hopefully) growing and expanding. If new facts come to light I'm ( again hopefully!) ready to change my views accordingly. 

If the term " rant" was not meant pejoratively then you have my apologies. Let me also say , having read most of your posts,  I don't think for one minute you hold views that could be called objectionable. As opposed as I am to holocaust denial/ anti semitism I also fully  accept how it can be used as a smear,  to silence criticism and debate. 

I think all responsible minded commentators/ observers/ journalists should be incredibly careful before labelling someone or something,  merely because they happen to disagree with them, anti semitic,  or nazi. Primarily so the terms themselves are not cheapened by careless overuse. They must not be allowed to lose their power or potency,  nor should the horrendous reality be diluted or in anyway denied. 

Saying this,  I've often berated myself for my own lack of restraint. Using words more for effect than for meaning. 

The situation in Palestine is nothing short of nightmarish. The sight of Israeli army bulldozer trundling across the debris strewn wastelands that were once warm and loving family homes should fill every beating heart with horror 

I would argue that all genuine supporters of Israel have a responsibility to criticise such actions.  The notion that Israel,  or any country or religion for that matter is beyond criticism is truly terrifying. Without sounding overdramatic such wilful myopia is a one way path to some unspoken unspeakable overtly censorious totalitarianism of the mind and soul. 

Perhaps I was less than artful in my wording Roger, what I meant was there are some who will attempt to use pro Palestinian anti Israeli protests to mask darker agendas. Characters who care not a whit about the sufferings. The REAL anti semites / holocaust deniers,  who whip up the frenzied crowds of co believers with despicable rhetoric " Death to Israel " 

It is by denying the humanity of both sides- Palestinians and Israelis that allows such hatred to fester. 



Tony Blair ultimately became a thoroughly grotesque caricature. The lies he told in the run up to the Iraq War  will forever live in infamy. The British people,  like most of the rest of humanity were overwhelmingly opposed to war. 

But it didn't matter. It reminded me of something Mark Lane said about the assassination:, I can't remember exactly what he said,  but paraphrasing,  " The problem isn't the people don't believe what their government is telling them( about the assassination) the problem is the government doesn't care about what the people believe "

As any student of British Imperial history will tell you,  never underestimate the power of the divide and rule strategy. It never fails. Stir people up with emotive words and issues,  with roots planted firmly in the darkly fertile soil of race, nationalism,  religion or creed, then stand back and watch them tear each other apart. 

They'll never ever notice their blood is the same colour or that it'll be the very same earth that will swallow the remains of their shattered bodies.

_________________
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" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

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Roger Odisio
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Tue 31 Jan 2023, 5:35 am
Here is my favorite Mark Groubert piece, Did LBJ kill JFK?, part 1. He's funnier here.  It was hard to get a word in with Jimmy Di.  In the piece with JD he tries to bring up LBJ's role but JD doesn't bite.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgVdPOVZo7Y&list=PLrbSXlYghqHVvA32ADrC1YdVioV9qtEbJ&index=2&t=230s
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Roger Odisio
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Tue 31 Jan 2023, 5:52 am
GP:  Alex, that is precisely what I had in mind when I said of Galloway that he appears to be "another anti-Semite gatekeeper for deeper darker groups."  Being opposed to the state of Israel can be and is used as cover for anti-Sematism. I was not sure if that is where he sits, or not.
 
RO:  And claiming anti-semitism can be a cover to shield Israel from criticism of its crimes. My guess is that effect is much more common and insidious than what you pose.  In fact there are multiple cases in the US courts right now in which state legislatures have sought to make even criticism of Israel illegal in various ways (forget the first amendment), including banning boycotts of Israel by private citizens.


Roger Odisio wrote: wrote:Today, he has many important people I want to hear from on his talk show that the MSM blacks out.
[size]
GP:  Checking recent guests
Chris Hedges - Russian sponsored "leftie"
The Lorikeet - what a coup that was getting her.
 
That's basically it, The other 7 or 8 I checked just seemed to be him solo, mainly engaged in pushing the pro-Russian line.[/size]
 
RO:  You didn't look hard enough.  But first:  Chris Hedges is a "Russian sponsored 'leftie"?  You mean because he appeared on RT when he couldn't get on the MSM for obvious reasons?  Appearing there means he is "Russian sponsored" and/or "pushing the pro-Russian line"   You mean "Russia" (who, exactly?) controls what Hedges can say on RT as if he were on the MSM, but with a different message? What is the "pro-Russian line" you claim he espouses?  What do these terms even mean?   How much do you know about Hedges?  Let me be blunt.  This is contentless dismissal of Hedges.
 
RO:  I spent 5 minutes on the internet and came up with this quick and dirty list of some of  Galloway's useful guests (it just scratches the surface):  Scott Ritter and Gonzolo Lira on Ukraine, Richard Wolff, Jimmy Dore, Lee Camp, Margaret Kimberly, Imran Kahn, Craig Murray on Assange, Nick Brana.  Know anything about any of them?  They all have one thing in common.  You won't be seeing them on MSM because they contradict the story being pushed there. Is it necessary to point out the value of  having these kind of people being heard by the millions being propagandized daily by the MSM.  Btw, do you have an opinion of Caitlin Johnstone? 
 
GP:  "Alternative" media (especially if they stick the word "truth" in the title somewhere because they wouldn't lie - not being the MSM and all), is really no different to the MSM. 
 
RO:  Transparently false.  By watching The Duran's daily reporting on Ukraine you get the same story the MSM tells us?  Watching Aaron Mate or Ray McGovern dissect Russiagate or the bogus claim that Assad gassed his own people is the same?  

GP:  Alex used the term "incestuous" to describe the relationship the MSM has with political parties and big business. But that extends to the relationship it has with the feted few who get invited to nod at the talking heads. They go back to the same people over and over again when they want external opinions. 

 
RO:  Yes, of course.  Not to mention the war machine/security state, the relationship which has gone beyond incestuous.  Now most MSM commenters interpreting the news used to work for some branch of the nat. security state.
  
GP:  The "aternative" media does the same. In fact, since it is smaller, it is far more obvious. They do the rounds of each others shows. Guests who are not fellow podcasters, are invited on to sell their books or whatever, and are well-known from appearing in OTHER podcasts in the alt.sphere. Does it matter if a host is anti-Semitic or rubs shoulders with white supremicists? Does it matter if the host spreads dangerous health advice? Does it matter if the host spends most of the show dog whistling and gaslighting? Not to those selling their books - and not to the gullible hordes who listen in, safe in the belief that if it is "alternative", it must be true. Kind of like a JFK theory, no matter how fucked-up, must be true (or at worst, can't be criticized) if it falls in the conspiracy column.

 
RO:  This boils down to the claim there is no alternative to the MSM.  

GP: Of course, I am painting with a very broad brush. Some governments don't deserve  skepticism (Ardern, NZ).  Nor do some MSM news outlets (SBS, Australia), Nor possibly some "alternative" media. But I'll have to think about who the exceptions might be there.

 
Certainly not Gorgeous George. His "hatred" of capitalism does not make him a good guy,in addition to Hedges .
 

RO:  There is no denying both despise capitalism, tho I'm more familiar with Hedges' views. To me that is a good thing.  I don't need to reach that other conclusion about whether each is "a good guy"' to understand that. 
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Thu 02 Feb 2023, 2:10 am
Roger Odisio wrote:claiming anti-semitism can be a cover to shield Israel from criticism of its crimes. My guess is that effect is much more common and insidious than what you pose.  In fact there are multiple cases in the US courts right now in which state legislatures have sought to make even criticism of Israel illegal in various ways (forget the first amendment), including banning boycotts of Israel by private citizens.
Yes, that is true - just as it is true that claiming you are being falsely called out, is sometimes just a tactic to deflect from thinly veiled anti-semitism. 

Take George G's soccer kerfuffle where he tweeted that a particular team losing a championship match was a good thing because there would be no Israeli flags being flown. The premise of the comment being that the team in England had a lot of Jewish supporters - which may not actually be the case - just supporters who embraced the "allegation" of having a lot of Jewish support by adopting the flag.  Whatever the truth is, you can bet your bottom dollar that George would not have made any such comment if the flag in question had been Russian, Palestinian, Cook Islander, Moldovian, or New Zealander.  It was thinly-veiled antisematism no ifs no buts.

US laws around Israel simply means Israel has an excellent lobby. Every country would try for that sort of deal if they could. Are laws made by YOUR country, to be added to your grievances against Israel? 

The evangelicals who run vast swathes of the US, are among Israel's biggest supporters because those freaks need Israel for their hoped for and prophecized armageddon.  

Chris Hedges is a "Russian sponsored 'leftie"?  
You're right. I should have said EX Russian sponsored "leftie". I forgot that Russian media got nixed in the US. 

Not sure what your problem is with that characterization. He was employed by RT and by his own words, is on the "left". The quote marks are only used to suggest the utility of the left/right dichotomy may be past its use-by date. But even if it is not, the left is filled with the faux variety and it is often very subtle. In his case, despite looking like the albino in the da Vinci code and despite misgivings about the true nature of many on the left, I do agree with a few of his positions.

Your claim that he joined RT because he could not get on the MSM is bunk. He quit his job with the New York Times and freely admits he has been making far more money than he ever did with the MSM. Seems the alt.sphere can be pretty lucrative, But we knew that already.

You didn't look hard enough.  
I checked the most recent 9 or 10 of his podcasts and found only the two guests named.  

Know anything about any of them? 
Nope. Except Imran Khan from his cricketing days. I march to the beat of my own drum. How's your cricket knowledge? 

But okay. Let's look at some of the others you added.

Scott Ritter beware ex weapons inspectors that haven't committed suicide.

Gonzolo Lira should be playing bass in the world's 4th best Santana tribute band, touring the Bikini Islands.

Richard Wolff an economist who gets a brownie point for supporting Modern Monetary Theory, but then gets it deducted for the double "f" in his name.

Jimmy Dore started out life as a perfect caricature of the son of an Irish Catholic cop in Chicago and goes downhill from there, ending with being fooled by right wing memes  allleging Biden held blackface parties, and by guests looking to start a 2nd civil war. "Yeah, that's right Jimmy. We love gays, blacks and immigrants, wearing Hawiian shirts and Pina Coladas."

Lee Camp Know nothing about the dude except what I just read in quick google searches. Another ex-employee of RT who openly admitted his show was paid for by the Russian government. He does however make what on the surface, seems like  a valid point - he can't get a gig on MSM because he goes after too many corporations. But there are alternatives to RT and the mainstream. At least here and in other parts of the world.

Margaret Kimberly - never heard of her either, but from the little I just read, she may be the pick of the crop.

Craig Murray On Assange and Assange only? I can understandno one should take that accent seriously. 

Nick Brana Good luck to him. It's a tough gig building a party capable of splitting the vote on one side or the other. Doesn't happen here. We have preferential voting where you nominate your preferences in order. If your number one gets knocked out, your vote goes to your second preference and so on until one cadidate has more than 50% of the vote.

Btw, do you have an opinion of Caitlin Johnston?
No. I spend a deal of time contacting academics and to a lesser extent, journalists from around the world about this case, trying to enlist their help. Having seen her name pop up on the 13 inch head forum, I bookmarked her blog  until I have a chance to assess whether she is someone worth contacting.  

Let me ask you a question since your list of alternatives to my mind, is a real mixed bag, ranging from "yeah, okay" "to fuck me dead. What the fuck are you thinking listening to this shithead?" exactly where do you draw the line in the alt.sphere? I mean, if the MSM is off limits altogether, surely there moust be some sort of limit on the other side of the coin as well? 

GP:  "Alternative" media (especially if they stick the word "truth" in the title somewhere because they wouldn't lie - not being the MSM and all), is really no different to the MSM. 
 
RO:  Transparently false.  By watching The Duran's daily reporting on Ukraine you get the same story the MSM tells us?  Watching Aaron Mate or Ray McGovern dissect Russiagate or the bogus claim that Assad gassed his own people is the same?  
That's not what I meant, Roger. As  I said before, not being the MSM, and being skeptical of government,and calling yourself "the alternative" news source does not automatically mean you are any more truthful than the MSM. Many - not all - but many are in it to exploit the gullible for profit, fame and hidden political agendas.  

I listened to a so-called doctor on youtube today predicting that hundreds of millions of people will be dead by the end of the year, killed by the covid vaccine. It is the fear factor. Keep people in fear, keep them riled up against the "other" and they are putty in your hands. This "doctor" as it turns out, is actually a naturopath. The US is the only place I know of that allows these quacks to call themselves doctors. But I digress. She is a fully-fledged dues paying member of the alt.sphere. As is Alex Jones, and that other dude, the lizard king, and a million and one other spivs, haters, baiters, z grade "researchers", grifters and egomaniacs.  There is obviously a spectrum and I am highlighting here, the far end of it. Again, where is your line? And why don't you recognize that similar spectrum exists in the mainstream? 

Now most MSM commenters interpreting the news used to work for some branch of the nat. security state.
As did at least one person on your alt. list.

This boils down to the claim there is no alternative to the MSM.  
Now you're getting it. Do you really think that all conspiracy theories are equal? Do you really think all alternative media is ethical, honest and factual just because it says it is opposed to the MSM? 

In the words of Lee HARVEY Oswald, a pox on both their houses. 

Survival in this environment where facts, half facts and downright lies are woven together to create narratives for the masses, you really need to be able to untangle those three threads whether you are hanging out in the soporific waters of the mainstream or the shallow waters and rip-tids of alternative media.
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Roger Odisio
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Fri 03 Feb 2023, 3:28 am
Roger Odisio wrote: wrote:claiming anti-semitism can be a cover to shield Israel from criticism of its crimes. My guess is that effect is much more common and insidious than what you pose.  In fact there are multiple cases in the US courts right now in which state legislatures have sought to make even criticism of Israel illegal in various ways (forget the first amendment), including banning boycotts of Israel by private citizens.
Yes, that is true - just as it is true that claiming you are being falsely called out, is sometimes just a tactic to deflect from thinly veiled anti-semitism. 

Take George G's soccer kerfuffle where he tweeted that a particular team losing a championship match was a good thing because there would be no Israeli flags being flown. The premise of the comment being that the team in England had a lot of Jewish supporters - which may not actually be the case - just supporters who embraced the "allegation" of having a lot of Jewish support by adopting the flag.  Whatever the truth is, you can bet your bottom dollar that George would not have made any such comment if the flag in question had been Russian, Palestinian, Cook Islander, Moldovian, or New Zealander.  It was thinly-veiled antisematism no ifs no buts.
 
RO: I don't really care much about that incident, but even if I accept your interpretation I don't think it shows anti-semitism.  The flag is the symbol of the Israeli state.  His statement shows contempt for what the state of Israel has become.  In contrast, anti-semitism is about despising Jews as individuals.

US laws around Israel simply means Isreal has an excellent lobby. Every country would try for that sort of deal if they could. Are laws made by YOUR country, to be added to your grievances against Isreal? 

 
RO:  Yes, because many politicians and most of Washington are willing to do anything Israel wants.  And what Israel typically wants ain't good.  The subservience  extends to clearly violating the first amendment.  Some US appeals courts have struck down the blatant effort to limit dissent, some have passed it thru. The rancid Supreme Court awaits. That shows the Israeli "lobby" is not just a lobby, in the sense you or I would be, but a major force in the political system.  Given who they are and what they do, that's insidious.
Chris Hedges is a "Russian sponsored 'leftie"?  
[size]
You're right. I should have said EX Russian sponsored "leftie". I forgot that Russian media got nixed in the US. 

Not sure what your problem is with that characterization. He was employed by RT and by his own words, is on the "left". The quote marks are only used to suggest the utility of the left/right dichotomy may be past its use-by date. But even i or f it is not, the left is filled with the faux variety and it is often very subtle. In his case, despite looking like the albino in the da Vinci code and despite misgivings about the true nature of many on the left, I do agree with a few of his positions.[/size]
 
RO:  Sponsored by Russia implies some ability by those dastardly creatures to have a say in what Hedges says.  As far as I can see, they didn't.  I agree with the the rest of what you say here. 

Your claim that he joined RT because he could not get on the MSM is bunk. He quit his job with the New York Times and freely admits he has been making far more money than he ever did with the MSM. Seems the alt.sphere can be pretty lucrative, But we knew that already.

 
RO:  He was pushed out of his job as a foreign correspondent at the Times because he wouldn't go along with their cheering for the war mongers.  In any case, this isn't about who is making more money doing what, is it?
You didn't look hard enough.  
[size]
I checked the most recent 9 or 10 of his podcasts and found only the two guests named.  
[/size]
Know anything about any of them? 
[size]
Nope. Except Imran Khan from his cricketing days. I march to the beat of my own drum. How's your cricket knowledge? [/size]
 
RO:  Cricket. Isn't that a less interesting form of baseball ?   

But okay. Let's look at some of the others you added.

Scott Ritter beware ex weapons inspectors that haven't committed suicide.

 
RO:  That rare individual who worked on the inside and survived to explain what they have done and are doing, particularly in Ukraine.  Similar to Ray McGovern, who worked 27 years as a Russian expert at the CIA.  Here he is talking Russian history and Ukraine, which he has been doing to great effect for months on various platforms, ever since the war started.
 
https://rumble.com/v25k40b-russia-might-go-west-ray-mcgovern-tpc-1054.html.
 
Gonzolo Lira should be playing bass in the world's 4th best Santana tribute band, touring the Bikini Islands.

Richard Wolff an economist who gets a brownie point for supporting Modern Monetary Theory, but then gets it deducted for the double "f" in his name.

 
RO:  I'm delighted to see you know something about MMT.  Important as it is, it's still not taught in most respectable schools as far as I know.  Read anything by Stephanie Kelton?  I'm a recovering economist myself.

Jimmy Dore started out life as a perfect caricature of the son of an Irish Catholic cop in Chicago and goes downhill from there, ending with being fooled by right wing memes  allleging Biden holdinmg blackface parties, and by guests looking to start a 2nd civil war. "Yeah, that's right Jimmy. We love gays, blacks and immigrants, wearing Hawiian shirts and Pina Coladas."

Lee Camp No nothing about the dude except what I just tread in quick google searches. Another ex-employee of RT who openly admitted his show was paod for by the Russian government. He does however make what on the surface, seems like it may be a valid point - he can't get a gig on MSM because he goes after too many corporations. But there are alternatives to RT and the mainstream. At least here and in other parts of the world.

 
RO: Started as a standup comic, as did Jimmy Dore. Now on Rumble where many lefty writers have gravitated to beat censorship. 

Margaret Kimberly - never heard of her either, but from the little I just read, she may be the pick of the crop.

 
RO:  Good call.

Craig Murray On Assange and Assange only? I can understandno one should take that accent seriously. 

Nick Brana Good luck to him. It's a tough gig building a party capable of splitting the vote on one side or the other. Doesn't happen here. We have preferential voting where you nominate your preferences in order. If your number one gets knocked out, your vote goes to your second preference and so on until one cadidate has more than 50% of the vote.

 
RO:  An earnest guy who worked for Bernie and decided to keep going when Bernie caved. Ranked choice voting is slowly catching on at the state level here. It clearly has the possibility of breaking thru the corrupt two party duopoly.
Btw, do you have an opinion of Caitlin Johnston?
[size]
No. I spend a deal of time writing contacting academics and to a lesser extent, journalists from around the world about this case, trying to enlist their help. Having seen her name pop up on the 13 inch head forum, I bookmarked her glog  until I have a chance to assess whether she is someone worth contacting. [/size]
 
RO: One of Caitlyn Johnstone's main themes is calling out the MSM's lies and propaganda, and discussing how to deal with them.  I get daily emails with her thoughts  and I think some of them are really good.  You ought to read her. 

Let me ask you a question since your list of alternatives to my mind, is a real mixed bag, ranging from "yeah, okay" "to fuck me dead. What the fuck are you thinking listening to this shithead?" exactly where do you draw the line in the alt.sphere? I mean, if the MSM is off limits altogether, surely there moust be some sort of limit on the other side of coin? 

 
RO:  I posted the list to make a simple point.  Galloway hosts many people you won't see on the MSM.  A value in itself.  I just collected a group of names on his show I recognized in 5 minutes of searching.  No implication they are particularly important or articulate. 
 
I have a favorites list of people who I think know what they're talking about on  topics that interest me.  It's a matter of judgement. I read them regularly. MSM won't have any of them because they would contradict their propaganda. 
GP:  "Alternative" media (especially if they stick the word "truth" in the title somewhere because they wouldn't lie - not being the MSM and all), is really no different to the MSM. 
 
RO:  Transparently false.  By watching The Duran's daily reporting on Ukraine you get the same story the MSM tells us?  Watching Aaron Mate or Ray McGovern dissect Russiagate or the bogus claim that Assad gassed his own people is the same?  
[size]
That's not what I meant, Roger. As  I said before, not being the MSM, and being skeptical of govern,and calling yourself "the alternative" news source does not automatically mean you are any more truthful than the MSM. Many - not all - but many are in it to exploit the gullible for profit, fame and hidden political agendas.  

I listened to a so-called doctor on youtube today predicting that hundreds of millions of people will be dead by the end of the year, killed by the covid vaccine. It is the fear factor. Keep poeple in fear, keep them riled up against the "other" and they are putty in your hands. This "doctor" as it turns out, is actually a naturopath. The US is the only place I know of that allows these quacks to call themselves doctors. But I digress. She is a fully-fledged dues paying member of the alt.sphere. As is Alex Jones, and that other dude, the lizard king, and a million and one other spivs, haters, baiters, z grade "researchers", grifters and egomaniacs.  There is obviously a spectrum and I am highlighting here, the far end of it. Again, where is your line? And why don't you recognize that similar spectrum exists in the mainstream? [/size]
 
RO: I see no symmetry between the MSM and alternative sources. I have no boundaries with the MSM.  If I paid attention the them, I might believe the US can't afford medicare for all, the Russian invasion of Ukraine was unprovoked and Ukraine is winning the war, Oswald murdered Kennedy, etc. 
Now most MSM commenters interpreting the news used to work for some branch of the nat. security state.
[size]
As does at least one person on your alt. list.[/size]
 
RO:  Scott Ritter?
This boils down to the claim there is no alternative to the MSM.  
[size]
Now you're getting it. Do you really think that all conspiracy theories are equal? Do you really think all alternative media is ethical, honest and factual just because it says it is opposed to the MSM? [/size]
 
RO:  No and no.  

In the words of Lee HARVEY Oswald, a pox on both their houses. 

Survival in this environment where facts, half facts and downright lies are woven together to create narratives for the masses, you really need to be able to untangle those three threads whether you are hanging out in the soporific waters of the mainstream or the shallow waters and rip-tids of alternative media,

 
RO: Sure.  My main point is you won't be able to untangle anything important if you only pay attention to the MSM.  They will lie, spew propaganda, and won't tell you many things you need to know. You have to find the information on your own.
 
In that spirit, here is a recent piece by Glenn Greenwald on the Russiagate hoax that has been used by the MSM to whip up anti-Russian fervor to support the war machine's war against Russia.  Joseph McCarthy lives.
 
https://rumble.com/v27vze6-russiagate-a-worthwhile-deep-dive-into-the-medias-stunning-lies-and-corrupt.html
 

The talk  begins at 15:30.  Of particular interest is Greenwald's explanation of why the MSM lies, why they don't care that they do, and why they never acknowledge the lies afterward.
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alex_wilson
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Sat 04 Feb 2023, 12:05 am
An ex fiancee of mine used to work as a " video journalist " for Ruptly,  the online ( or at least they were) arm of RT. To be honest she wasn't the most sophisticated,  or politically adroit person,  imho at least,  their bread and butter was presenting supposedly anti establishment" alternative " ( mostly anti American/ NATO/ EU/ Israel) viewpoints with a subtle pro Russian slant. 

Imran Khan was one of the greatest fast bowling all rounders of all time. Allegedly, off the field,  he was equally skilled when it came to bowling maidens over( especially if the maidens in question frequented certain establishments round Sloane Square/ Mayfair/ Knightsbridge. 

He entered the halls of cricket Valhalla by leading Pakistan to their epic 1992 World Cup triumph. Defeating England. 

On a far more sombre note , right on cue,  displaying all the sophistication and insight of a gaggle of Infowars droogs,  out their tiny conspiracy ravaged minds on " nutritional supplements " , gatecrashing The Bohemian Grove Amateur Thespian Society's version of " The Merchant of Venice ", everyone's favourite 13 inch headed ex head shrinker ( talk about finding your niche!) DR Neiderhut ( I pity the fool who ain't no Harvard Medical School Class of 83 alumnus) underlined exactly what we are discussing. 

Not only praising notorious anti semite M Laurent Guyenot's latest essay,  simply because it mildly praises Jim DiEs and Oliver Stone's recent documentary , but he actually called him a genius. 

A polymath. Just like our Juddufki!!

To be fair to Jim DiE he quickly distanced himself from the hateful bilge spewed by Michael Collins Piper,  the Gallic polymaths go to source on all things JFK and Jew related. 

While I agree the terms Anti semite and nazi should most certainly not be cheapened,  or turned into a slur,  to be deployed indiscriminately,  as an attempt either to smear or silence legitimate criticism, I think all responsible researchers/ commentators/ journalists  etc have a moral obligation to denounce such rabid filth. 

I honestly can't work out if the good doctor is really as naive , stupid and unsophisticated as he seems. What the fuck was he thinking? Not only heaping glutinous praise on such an undeserving head, but actively trying to associate his name,  and all he represents ( intentionally or not,  the mere linkage is more than adequate) with Jim DiE and Stone's documentary?

Greg is spot on. These characters DO exist in a bubble cum echo chamber. 

I disagree profoundly with Fred Litwins view of the assassination but I have to,  albeit grudgingly admit that occasionally he makes a valid point. Ignoring his biased commentary,  as one might ignore a fly buzzing round your head on an otherwise idyllic summer afternoon,  the documents he posts are a valuable resource. 

Jim DiE does himself no favours at all by refusing to admit obvious errors,  preferring instead to launch into polarising diatribes, thinly laced with his apparently dubious understanding of what constitutes a witty  riposte and dubious claims ( like Fred  supposedly " rewriting " a CIA memo) he then refuse to substantiate. 

Preferring instead to launch into a multi post sermon,  preaching to the choir ( albeit one that seems to be rapidly diminishing) whilst answering the questions he wishes he had been asked. 

Getting rid of the deadwood and the red herrings,  imho at least,  can only be beneficial. Leaving the real,  actionable information to be developed. Rather than behaving like some sort of blinkered fundamentalist,  refusing to let go of some cherished conspiracy icon, simply because it seems to hint at conspiracy. 

Running your fingers through the masses of " conspiracy evidence " like a fool caressing a chest full of shiny coins, forged from fools gold.

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A fez! A fez! My kingdom for a fez!!
The last words of King Richard HARVEY Plantagenet III 
Bosworth Field 1485

Is that a doppelganger in your pocket or are you just pleased to see me?
Artist, poet, polymath, cancer research prodigy Judyth Vary Baker's  first words to Lee HARVEY Oswald. New Orleans April 1963

For every HARVEY there must be an equal and opposite LEE
Professor Sandy Isaac Newton Laverne Shirley Fonzie Larsen's 
Famous 1st Law of Doppelganging

" To answer your question I  ALWAYS  look for mundane reasons for seeming anomalies before considering  sinister explanations. Only a fool would do otherwise. And I'm no fool" The esteemed Professor Larsen  From  his soon to be published  self help book " The Trough of Enlightenment "( Trine Day  Foreword  Vince Palamara)

" Once you prove Davidson's woman's face then Stanton's breasts follow naturally " Brian Doyle
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Vinny
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Sat 04 Feb 2023, 2:04 pm
Jim hero worships Garrison. He seems to think that Garrison was perfect and did not do any mistakes. He also seems to think of the Garrison case as his personal turf. He does not like it when others including lone nutters try to correct his mistakes regarding Garrison.

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